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Topic: Budwig protocol?

Forum: Alternative Medicine — This forum is a safe, judgement-free place for Alternative Therapy users and for those wishing to discuss about alternative therapy only. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Please refrain from providing individual medical advice.

Posted on: May 6, 2012 03:33PM

CancerStinks wrote:

I've seen this diet mentioned on the "the Vitaman D takers?" forum and have googled it to find out more. Any one out there following this regime who'd liked to share how they discovered the diet, how their MO reacted to questions about it,(particularly the of use flax seed oil for us ER+ girls) how hard it is to follow, and success/failures etc associated with it?  All insights are appreciated.  

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May 6, 2012 07:02PM, edited May 6, 2012 07:08PM by Ruby-

CS, did you search here at BCO ?  I seem to recall having read a thread or two on the subject.  I think Leia is a very happy user of the protocol which has done wonders for her. I'm a bit concerned about flax too, more research on my plate 

Here it is: http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/79/topic/771452?page=1 

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D

Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIb, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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May 6, 2012 08:06PM NNBBFL wrote:

Hi CS,

It was probably my post that mentioned the Budwig Protocol on the Vitamin D thread. I mentioned there that I get natural Vitamin D from sunshine as recommended by Dr. Budwig's protocol. I was also trying to see if anyone would comment on Dr. Budwigs Plan. (you can find it by a google search but make sure you get to her original protocol and not re-invented versions of it). I was diagnosed in November 2011 with no insurance. I had read much about alternative therapy and really was impressed with Dr. Budwigs story, the fact that she was a cell biochemist and nominated for 5 nobel prizes for her work with cell metabolism and that she was able to cure herself and many others (some so called hopeless cases) of cancer. The crux of her diet program ( with cottage cheese, flaxoil and flax seed) what that by simply adding that to the diet you could correct issues with the way your body metabolizes fats and fix the cells and your immune system to work correctly so it could attack cancer cells on its own. Cancer cells proliferate anerobically (without the presence of oxygen) while normal cells use oxygen. Anyway to the point, I decided to try her plan as I was leaning toward the alternative approach. I started her diet plan on Jan 1st and have lost over 30 lbs and feel great. I no longer have any pain in the tumor/bone area (no sugar allowed on the diet). I was able to procure health insurance in March (PCIP) and did then she an oncologist although my mind was made up against traditional chemo. Since I am ER+ she recommended Arimidex which I was on the fence about and took a couple weeks to consider, meanwhile she had me get a PET Scan for a baseline which showed more mets than on my CAT scan at diagnoses. That concerned me some and I also found out that a first cousin who I hadn't known had been through cancer 6 yr ago and is a nurse told me she had taken Arimidex for 5 yr. (successfully but she was only stage 1). My oncologist gave me an "eh" when I asked her if she had heard of Dr. Budwig and I didn't push it further then. I started the 1mg daily dose of Arimidex April 2 and see my onc again on May 17, I have continued on the Diet Plan realizing that I am compromising it by putting a chemical in my body but since it is a more specific treatment I decided to do it. I will ask at my next visit if the phytoestrogens in flax are an issue with the treatment. I do know that the ones in flag are lignans which is what makes the biochemistry of the cottage cheese/flax oil work and that they are different than the isoflavones which are the phytoestrogens in soy. I had tried other diets before this dx and it seemed like nothing worked for me. Giving up meat was not hard for me and eating fruits and veggies never left me hungry and I couldn't believe how the weight just kept coming off. Now that I have started the Arimidex, I have plateaued----no estrogen and here comes the weight gain just like menopause (I am determined not to have that happen). I don't know if all this really answers your question but I am a believer in Dr. Budwig. She was way ahead of her time and now you see others try to re-invent some of her discoveries. I think it was the curing cancer naturally site that gives the original story about her.

Dx 11/23/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-Hormonal Therapy 04/02/2012 ArimidexHormonal Therapy 05/15/2013 Aromasin
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May 8, 2012 12:15PM CancerStinks wrote:

thanks so much for your thorough explanations.  I still don't know what I'm going to do but have an appointment for a second opinion with a MO tomorrow so I'll know more about what she proposes I do at least

Surgery: Rt bst lump 1/24/12;re-excision 2/14/12 clear: Rads: whole brst: 2/28/- 4/10/12 25 fractions 4750 cGys;Tumor bed 5 boosts 1k cGys; Daily Oral 2k IU D3,1 multi bone/breast,81mg aspirin,1 raw organic apple

Dx 1/11/2012, DCIS, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+
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May 9, 2012 08:33AM KatRNagain92 wrote:

I spent a big chunk of time on the Budwig website.  http://www.budwigcenter.com/  Finally!  An alternative website that doesn't feel like your surfing in bad web neighborhoods!  I wish alternativecancer.us would do likewise.

Anyway, I found it interesting that Ed Sopcak (pronounced Soap-Check) is mentioned on the Budwig site in regards to a weak immune system.  ""Most all the cancer patients I have spoken with had a major stress in their life six months to 3 years before they were diagnosed with cancer."   Since Mr Sopcak is a major player in the Entelev-Cancell-Protocel evolution, he brings much credibility to the protocol. (in my eyes anyway)  I think the main sound byte with any alternative method is that cancer cells are anaeorbic and healthy cells are aerobic.  Remove the energy/food source for anaerobic cells and you remove the cancer. 

I also enjoyed reading about the Budwig wellness program and their insight on hyperthermia and sunbathing. Aside from doing the actual flax seed and cottage cheese diet or coffee enemas,  I have adjusted well to no refined sugar, candy, baked goods etc. I avoid fried foods and hydrogenated oils.  I'm trying to do yoga every day to get the lymphatic system moving and draining.  I live right next door to a community center of which I have access to an infrared sauna and massage therapy. 

There is a chapter in "Outsmart your Cancer" by  Tanya Harter Pierce, M.A., MFCC called "Flaxseed Oil and Cottage Cheese" that is devoted to Dr. Johanna Budwig.  Prior to the book, a friend of mine gave me a photo copy of the Budwig diet and that was the first exposure to alternative methods I had seen...however, I couldn't go through with it. (coffee enemas) 

This Protocol also appears a little pricier but I think it would awesome to go to Spain for 2 weeks for the initial treatment and daily seminars!  The site does offer fees for home training or abroad.  If there is one thing I learned from my Protocel 23 regimen, is that you have to true to the plan...any plan...just stay the course and follow it to the tee.  If that means getting coaching or spending a little money to respond to it the way it is intended, then that is money well spent!
 

Everything you do, prepares you for the next thing you have to do. 12/1/11 Stage IV w/distant mets to lymph nodes in the chest wall and cutaneous tissues. ER+PR+ HER2-

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May 9, 2012 01:46PM NNBBFL wrote:

KatRNagain9,

Sorry but the site for original Budwig information is HealingCancerNaturally.com (not curing as I stated in my previous post). Interestingly the Budwig center site is an adaptation of her original protocol. Much of what information of hers that is available was only in another language until rather recently. The HealingCancerNaturally site has over 100 pages available. I ordered a couple of her books that are available in English through Amazon, other than that there is no real cost to her program. That said, it is why many try to adapt her program into something that generates money or a profit Also we live in a world that is much more riddled with chemicals than what she lived in so it is hard to be completely free of any chemical exposure, have only natural fabrics, drink raw milk etc. That is why I decided to do the hormone treatment and do the best I can in all other aspects of her protocol. I don't take any supplements or other medications as I like the idea of as natural as possible. I don't recall anything about coffee enemas or the like in what I have read so that must be one of the adaptations of the so called center. Ultimately we all must carve to some extent a path that we trust and can live with for this difficult journey.

Dx 11/23/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-Hormonal Therapy 04/02/2012 ArimidexHormonal Therapy 05/15/2013 Aromasin
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May 26, 2012 01:25PM candygurl wrote:

BUMP for Himalaya.

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May 28, 2012 09:44AM himalaya wrote:

What is BUMP?

Spain is not far from me, i could go there for a talk, look arraund...to stay and spen 8000EUR i dont want.

But i know one man in USA who made good treatment for himself for cancer, following Budwigs system.

I will call them tomorrow ask what they think about my situation.

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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May 28, 2012 10:02AM KatRNagain92 wrote:

When you BUMP a thread you are sending it to the top of the list so you have a better chance of seeing it.  :)

Everything you do, prepares you for the next thing you have to do. 12/1/11 Stage IV w/distant mets to lymph nodes in the chest wall and cutaneous tissues. ER+PR+ HER2-

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May 28, 2012 11:28AM himalaya wrote:

oh good

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 2, 2012 02:50AM himalaya wrote:

So is there somebody else right now doing Budwig?

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 2, 2012 07:37AM sweetbean wrote:

Himalaya, please search for Chillipadi's story regarding Budwig.  She did the entire protocol for 14 months - it did not work. 

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Jun 2, 2012 12:06PM himalaya wrote:

well, ok...i know little bit about her, now she is doing salvie theraphy? And how it is going with that?

Do you think it could be polite to write her personal letter?

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 2, 2012 12:07PM himalaya wrote:

Im new here and i dodnt know how to find chillpadi for corresponding.Please tell me.

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 2, 2012 02:44PM QueenSonia wrote:

No therapy can guarantee 100% that it will work, so what works for one may not work for another, same as conventional therapy, 2 people with the same cancer doing the same thing may have a different result. There are many different natural healing protocols. You have to do what feels right for yourself. 

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Jun 2, 2012 03:18PM, edited Jun 2, 2012 04:26PM by candygurl

Himalaya, there is a poster "LEIA", who had surgery and ONLY uses the BUDWIG protocol and vitamin d. She has been cancer free for the past 6 years. Search her name and find her posts.

Leia said,

"I am taking 10,000 IU/day and my D3 level is 85. 

I am also on the Budwig FOCC.

I feel fantastic. And after my 2cm IDC, May 2006, cut out with wide margins with no other treatments, no recurrence. 6 years later. 

That is no radiation, no Tamoxifen/AI. Certainly, no chemo.

I don't come here, often. Because when I do, it just depresses me. To witness all of you women, over-treating yourselves. Even on this alternative board. 

In my view, the bottom line with cancer; Our bodies are designed to live; that is all that they do. But we have to help our bodies do that, by feeding our bodies with the corrrect nutrients. If we don't do that, they fail.

Proper nutrition CAN cure cancer. Eating processed foods will just kill us. And that is all that we have, these days, is processed foods. Just look around your supermarket.

So, there you go."  

ETA : FOCC is Flax Seed Oil Cottage Cheese.    

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Jun 2, 2012 03:22PM Adey wrote:

himalaya-  Just search the member name chillipadi and then PM her.  Good luck in your search.

BMX 5/28/10, TAC x 6 last one 1/04/11, Rads finished 3/29/11, Bilateral Gap in NOLA 12/6/11, Stage two NOLA 3/15/12, Stage 2B in Charleston 8/31/12, bone mets Stage IV.

Dx 5/5/2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIb, Grade 2, 1/8 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jun 2, 2012 04:07PM suzieq60 wrote:

Himalaya - I looked for Chillipadi's post and have copied it here. This is what you are possibly facing if you refuse surgery. Apologies to Chilli for reposting this, but this lady needs to read it now.

"Dear Kat and Pat,

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but I turned alternative when I was first diagnosed as Stage 1 a decade ago, and now today I'm Stage 3 with a massive tumor which has broken through the skin and covers my breast, and has just extended to my upper torso and towards my right armpit. It is ulcerating, fungating, oozes fluid like a tap and stinks horribly. In the past 2 years. my oncologists have tried hormonals and chemo but the beast keeps surfacing and growing. Meanwhile, I continued living a very healthy lifestyle (something I've done for more than a decade, which included taking complementary supplements, foods,and trying alternative therapies like the Budwig Protocol (that one made the cancer grow even faster).

I had a lumpectomy at Stage 1, nothing else. My onco then said that chemo wasn't necesaary and I refused Tamoxifen because my DH and I didn't have any kids and wanted a family. Well, the cancer recurred about a year later but I stuck to a purely alternative route. The lump stayed no larger than walniut-sized until about 3 years ago, when it started bleeding. That's when I tried the Budwig Protocol for the following 14 months. During that time, the cancer grew so much that it covered more than half my breast, was lumpy all over, turned a maroon red and bled copiously.

After putting me on just oral chemo and Tamoxifen, tmy first onco managed to reduce the growth to nothing. Normal skin even began to grow back and I could see a breast appearing again. We worked on letting the damaged area shrink and heal further before attempting surgery. Unfortunately, the cancer recurred before that could happen. Sadly, a series of errors happened which delayed treatment for almost 2 months and caused the cancer to spread considerably during that time. The biopsy was delayed for almost 2 weeks. Then the lab got the results wrong, diagnosing me as ER-/ER- and HER2+ when I was still ER+/ER+ and HER2-. Unfortunately, my onco had just quit to join another hospital, so he had no access to my report, so nobody noticed the error until a new onco was assigned to me a few weeks later.

So the cancer re-established itself firmly in my breast, and has been growing ever since. All hormonals don't seem to work for me now, and chemo only causes the tumors to retreat for a while. Surgery would only be palliative and cause me a lot of pain and suffering as a great deal of my chest, upper torso and back would have to cut out. I have been told the cancer will recur anyway, and death was very likely.

I still try to keep up with my healthy lifestyle and diet, plus some supplements. I've done practically every alternative therapy you can think of over the years, and none stopped the cancer. I've just started on a Gemzar and Carboplatin chemo cocktail. It's been two infustions so far (yesterday was the second) and the tumors have shrunk by about 15%. I'm also taking Indian frankincense (Shallaki or Boswellia Serrata) capsules and Middle-Eastern frankincense (Boswellia Carteri) essential oil mixed into my wound dressing. Both are anti-infammatory and anti-tumoral.

Pat and Kat, if I were in your shoes today and had the knowledge and experience I have had, I would seriously consider some conventional treatment, while continuing with a healthy lifestyle and diet. Don't wait until it's too late. You don't want to look the way I look today, and suffer as much as I do everyday.

chillipadi "

2nd diagnosis October 2010 - IDC 5.8mm node negative - missed on mammogram in October 2009

Dx 10/13/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Jun 2, 2012 05:05PM sweetbean wrote:

Just to highlight in zuvart's post - Leia had surgery.  She did not try to do the Budwig FOCC instead of surgery.

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Jun 3, 2012 06:34AM, edited Jun 3, 2012 06:35AM by himalaya

What i see, chilpadi got problems AFTER surgery.

This is also what my sister and MIL got.

And those two my dear beloved ladies never change a lifestyle, (doctor didnt tell them to)they were just continuing eat how they did before, and womit and eat again...

I think my situation is  different, as you say for everybody is different, thats true.

I will observe little bit more because anyway i dont see anybody who i like to take as a surgeon.

All my body is telling me NOOO if i talk with them.

Thats my inner voice and i cant force myself in sober mind to make desision against my inner voice.

I know it looks silly but no regrets.

Everyting is going how we want and how we deserve to be.

So simple.

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 3, 2012 06:37AM himalaya wrote:

thank you i will search for LEIA, that seems more familiar to my situation.

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 3, 2012 08:30AM suzieq60 wrote:

Himalaya - Chillipadi got the problem because she refused surgery after she had a recurrence. She also did not have radiation after her first lumpectomy which is essential if you do not have a mastectomy. She also did not take hormone blockers which is also essential if you are hormone receptive. The fact that she refused these 2 essential treatments is why her cancer came back. So having surgery in the first place is not why she is in this situation.

2nd diagnosis October 2010 - IDC 5.8mm node negative - missed on mammogram in October 2009

Dx 10/13/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Jun 3, 2012 08:48AM sweetbean wrote:

Himalaya,  LEIA HAD SURGERY.  Chillipadi refused it after a recurrence.  Your body isn't telling you no.  That is your mind and it's because you are scared and sad.  Everyone is scared and sad.  Not having surgery is a huge mistake.

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Jun 3, 2012 10:59AM KatRNagain92 wrote:

Chillipadi also went three years with stability.  Three years!

Truthfully, at this point...even three more years would be considered a life time!

Everything you do, prepares you for the next thing you have to do. 12/1/11 Stage IV w/distant mets to lymph nodes in the chest wall and cutaneous tissues. ER+PR+ HER2-

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Jun 3, 2012 11:25AM, edited Jun 3, 2012 11:26AM by himalaya

This Post was deleted by himalaya.
Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 3, 2012 11:26AM himalaya wrote:

What do you mean  by STABILITY?

Dx 3/1/2012, IDC, 3cm
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Jun 3, 2012 12:59PM sweetbean wrote:

Stability means no change in her tumor.  No growth, no shrinkage.  It's totally possible that whatever chillipadi was doing helped keep it from growing for  a while, but it didn't work forever.  She definitely regrets not having the surgery when she had the chance.   

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Jun 3, 2012 04:25PM, edited Jun 3, 2012 04:25PM by candygurl

I wonder if Chillipadi did the Budwig protocol with coffee enemas. It's  important to mop up the dead cells.  Also, maybe things would have worked out differently had she been followed by an ND.  Who knows? What's important is that her health is finally moving in the right direction now, and she sees light at the end of the tunnel.

Himalaya, are you planning on going to the Budwig Center? And are you taking any supplements (i.e. enzymes, vitamin d etc :)

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Jun 3, 2012 04:35PM sweetbean wrote:

Zuvart, if you read Chillipadi's story, she did absolutely everything the Budwig protocol required for 14 months.  She said she did it completely faithfully and it failed her big time.  I have to say, I've never been impressed with the Budwig protocol.  

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Jun 3, 2012 04:44PM, edited Jun 3, 2012 04:48PM by candygurl

Most people do the Budwig protocol without the coffee enemas. For instance, I don't think that Leia is doing them. She never mentioned coffee enemas, at least not in the posts that I read.

Whether you are impressed with the protocol or not, many people have success with it, and many do not.

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Jun 3, 2012 05:22PM sweetbean wrote:

I haven't read nearly enough success stories.  On the other hand, I have read a ton of failures.  The fact that she discourages exercise, even yoga, and antioxidants seems totally crazy to me.

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+

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