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Topic: Massage Cautions?

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  • Posted on: Oct 31, 2009 11:22 pm
ON
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 226
Mantra wrote:

I had 3 nodes removed during the sentinel node biopsy. I do not have lymphedema but I am taking all precautions to try and prevent it. Before being dx, I used to go for a massage every couple of weeks with an amazing registered massage therapist. I want to start going again but am wondering if I need to be cautious about having massages after having some nodes removed (not a massage for lymphedema but a regular massage).


Diagnosis: 7/10/2009, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER-/PR-
Posts 1 - 11 (11 total)
nagem
NY
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 244
Nov 1, 2009 08:45 am nagem wrote:

I have a similar question. I had full axillary dissection on one side and three sentinel nodes biopsied on the other, plus mastectomy and radiation, and I'm interested in trying acupuncture for a back problem. I don't currently have any symptoms of lymphedema but wonder if I would be putting myself at risk by allowing those tiny needles into my arms and back?

nagem (http://underthestinkwoodtree.blogspot.com)
Diagnosis: 9/23/2005, ILC, 1cm, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 1/13 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+
kira
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 755
Nov 1, 2009 08:56 am kira wrote:

Mantra, regular massage increases blood flow to the area, and can increase the risk of swelling, but is not an absolute contraindication if you're just at risk. It can do so much good as well. Just be attentive to your arm and trunk after and during your massage.

 Nagem, for people with lymphedema, it's felt that the piercing of the skin, even in the quadrants not involved, could increase the risk for cellulitis. I would definitely have them avoid the entire quadrant that is at risk, and for you, that's the entire upper body. You could talk to you accupuncturist about other channels they might be able to use.

Kira 


Diagnosis: 5/10/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage Ib, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
Member_of_t…
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,555
Nov 1, 2009 09:11 am Member_of_the_Club wrote:

I get regular massages as well and I have LE.  Just listen to your body.  If your arm feels achy afterwards you know to avoid that area.


Diagnosis: 9/30/2004, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIb, Grade 2, 1/17 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
jrgolomb
mi
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 869
Nov 1, 2009 09:19 am jrgolomb wrote:

I had that question as well.  I had an axillary dissection and have found the massage helps, but I took the time find a trained massage therapist who knew what areas to avoid.  It has become a session by session check because sometimes my arm has that fullness and heaviness up and donw the full arm- you know hwat I mean????

Jess
Diagnosis: 10/16/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage II, Grade 1, 1/17 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
Binney4
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,617
Nov 1, 2009 10:34 am, edited Nov 1, 2009 10:38 AM by Binney4 Binney4 wrote:

Hi, Mantra,

Deep tissue massage on any affected quadrant is definitely contraindicated as a lymphedema risk (as Kira notes, in your situation that means everything above the waistUndecided).  Here's a sensible information page about massage after breast cancer, written by a savvy massage therapist:

http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/onmapronriof.html

Nagem, you might consider acupressure as a non-invasive alternative. There's a Chinese doctor in San Francisco who is seeking to conduct Western-style objective, peer-reviewed research on the effects of acupuncture on lymphedema, but the results of that study will not be available for years yet. (And anyway she tells me she doesn't trust U.S. acupuncturists -- "they're too careless"!Wink) Lymphedema research has been slow to start, but the good news is that it's finally getting a toe-hold in the research world. Yes!!!Smile

Jess, I absolutely do know what you mean, and that feeling is well worth checking out, because it's coming to be accepted that those feelings are an indication of sub-clinical lymphedema (which means it can't be measured yet -- there can be as much as 30% more fluid in the tissue than normal before any swelling can be measured or eye-balled). A referral to a well-qualified lymphedema therapist would get you a complete evaluation, baseline arm measurements, some personalized hints on how to proceed safely, and a fitting for a compression sleeve and glove or gauntlet to wear while exercising (or traveling, or for any unusual activities). Heading off lymphedema before it progresses is a GREAT way to keep your life in control.Smile Here's a page about how to find a qualified lymphedema therapist near you:

 http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Finding_a_Qualified_Lymphedema_Therapist.htm

Be well!
Binney

ToniM14
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Nov 1, 2009 11:43 am ToniM14 wrote:

As an Oncology Massage Therapist with 10 years experience I love being able to reply to this question.  A regular massage to any limb that has had nodal dissection, even one node removed, has the risk forever for lymphedema.  It is the reason your nurses try not to do blood pressures or needle sticks in the affected arm.  It is about the increase of lymph flow through a compromised lymphatic system.  A massage with repeated strokes to the affected side could cause the lymphatic system to try to move the lymph faster than its transport ability.  Now saying all that, a massage therapist that has been trained in oncology massage has the ability to offer you a wonderfully tranquil, relaxing, revitalizing experience that you so richly deserved.  There is no reason for any survivor to get lymphedema due to an untrained massage therapist or lack of knowledge.  That is why once again I will be at Living Beyond Breast Cancer this February in Atlanta, GA.  Hope to see you there.

Mantra
ON
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 226
Nov 2, 2009 05:51 pm Mantra wrote:

Thanks for the info. I spoke to my massage therapist and asked her about her knowledge/training in lymphedema. I have gone to her many many times before I was dx but this will be my first massage since my surgery. She explained she is very familiar with lymphedema and techniques etc. I was really pleased to hear this since she is absolutely beyond amazing at what she does and I would have hated to have to find someone new.


Diagnosis: 7/10/2009, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER-/PR-
ccnani
long beach, ca
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 46
Nov 3, 2009 06:50 pm ccnani wrote:

ToniM14 thanx for your post . I had 27 nodes removed from left side and sentinel node biopsy on right +Double mastectomy. Starting Chemo on Nov. 17th. TCH X 6 then Herceptin for rest of 1 year. My onc doesn't believe in ports, unless your veins have a problem. Obviously they can't use my left arm but they are going to use my right arm. Since you know about this could you please direct me. Thank you so much for any info you can give me. I'm scared of getting lymphedema in right arm.

ccnani
Diagnosis: 7/10/2009, IDC, <1cm, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 1/27 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+
kira
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 755
Nov 3, 2009 07:37 pm kira wrote:

ccnani,

Both of your arms are at risk for lymphedema, obviously the left more than the right. Here is a link to the risk reduction guidelines of the National Lymphedema Network which would advise that you not get blood draws, or IV's in either arm. Your onc might say that there is no study to prove that IV's or blood draws cause lymphedema, and while there may not be a study, the risk of vein irritation, infection and crush injury from tourniquets all place you at risk.

Perhaps the onc will revisit the port issue--you're bilaterally at risk.

http://www.lymphnet.org/pdfDocs/nlnriskreduction.pdf 

I'm going to ask Binney to answer as well.

Kira 


Diagnosis: 5/10/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage Ib, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
Binney4
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,617
Nov 3, 2009 08:17 pm Binney4 wrote:

ccnani, hello!

Your veins DO have a problem -- poking at them with an IV could cause you a chronic, life-long medical condition that is both difficult to manage and exasperating, not to mention seriously prone to systemic infection. Unfortunately, many of our doctors know little about lymphedema and fail to understand the tremendous impact it has on our on-going health and quality of life. 

You might want to ask your oncologist whether this is his policy for everyone or if there's some particular medical reason why you in particular are not a good candidate for a port. If it's just his policy, then you have to decide what YOUR policy is going to be regarding accessing your arm. The decision is ultimately yours -- it's your arm, and lymphedema is for the rest of your life.

That said, I also want to turn around and encourage you that, should you ever develop lymphedema, there is excellent treatment available to control and manage it -- and hey! we're all here to buck up anybody who joins our "club"!

Be well,
Binney

ToniM14
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Nov 4, 2009 03:54 pm ToniM14 wrote:

CCnani,

Please call the National Lymphedema Network and get the absolute vital information that you need concerning your chemo treatment.  At my cancer center ports are the normal means of delivering chemotherapy.  Even with a sentinel node biopsy you are at risk for LE. 

Take care,

Toni

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