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Topic: Two Things I Always Wondered About

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  • Posted on: Nov 4, 2009 11:59 am
NC
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 387
PureE wrote:

When I had my biopsys done ( I had 2) I had a 3.7 tumour and a .7 mm tumour somewhere in another part of my breast- they both came back as grade 1. I can see how the biopsy gets size wrong but how did it get the flippin grade wrong.  The first biopsy of the .7mm tumour-he took almost half of it when he did the biopsy (.7mm is very tiny so this was easy to do) so how did one lab say grade 1 and when they removed my breast they said grade 3 (almot a 2:) especially when he removed half of it.  Can the grade of the tumour change as it sits there.

Also, they said having 2 tumours was very uncommon but they don't add them together and that's the size of your tumour-Duke said they work off the biggest one and it doesn't make it more agressvie or anything along those lines to have 2 tumours. Anyone else told that?

JMV
Posts 1 - 9 (9 total)
lisa-e
Santa Cruz, CA
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 443
Nov 4, 2009 12:31 pm lisa-e wrote:

I had two invasive tumors - my onc said that treatment decisions are normally based on the larger tumor.   My research indicated that outcomes for multicentric cancers are the same as for unicentric cancer and aggregating the tumor size to determine treatment is not warrented;  however, I insisted on oncotype tests for both of my tumors.  The smaller one had a high oncotype score than the larger one.  Luckily, both scores were low enough that I felt comfortable with no chemo.

Regarding the change in grade, I wonder if a tumor could have areas with different grades.   If it was critical for a decision treatment, I would  get the slides re-read. 

Initial BC dx with dcis & idc after lumpectomy & snb in 6/08. in 8/08 dx with multicentric bc (idc) after mri. had bilat mastecomy in 9/08 w/o reconstruction
Diagnosis: 2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/19 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
Leah_S
Israel
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 667
Nov 4, 2009 12:59 pm Leah_S wrote:

I had two tumors - on was 1.6 cm, grade 3, invasive and the other was 8 mm, dcis, grade 2. All treatment decisions were based on the invasive component and the 6 lymph nodes invovlved.

I think, generally, treatment decisions are based on the worst part of the pathology (size and grade).

Leah


Diagnosis: 11/3/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage IIb, Grade 3, 6/17 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
39mom2babie…
Farmington Hills, MI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 33
Nov 4, 2009 01:37 pm 39mom2babies wrote:

Hi PureE,  I had 2 tumors.  One was 2.1 and the other 2.4.  My medical team spent some time discussing if they were connected.  Some felt they were connected like a barbell and that this would be more positive.  Others felt they were not connected and it did not matter either way.  I'm not sure if it truly makes a difference.  The more important factor is if it responds to chemo.  As for the grade, mine was a grade 3 while pregnant and the lymph nodes were grade 2 (taken out post delivery.  My onc stated that when pregnant the hormones make it grow faster and are staged as more aggressive.  The good thing is that yours is out.  When are you due?

mommy
Diagnosis: 5/4/2009, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIb, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
PureE
NC
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 387
Nov 4, 2009 02:07 pm PureE wrote:

I am due Jan 30th but will probably be induced around the 15th-my baby is in the 67%.

I guess what I am so confused about is how one lab found them both to be grade 1 and the other lab found them to be grade 3. I  My oncologist said the studies said that pregnancy didn't influence outcome of the cancer- either better or worse.  And I actually never asked the grade of the lymphs-is that possible?

JMV
39mom2babie…
Farmington Hills, MI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 33
Nov 4, 2009 02:49 pm 39mom2babies wrote:

My onc said the same as yours that the pregnancy will not affect the outcome.  I had my daughter 3 weeks early due to cancer.  She was 6lb 9oz and is growing like a weed.  Its hard to say why your results are so different.  Grading is not exactly precise and one could see it as a grade 1 and another a grade 2, but to be 1 to 3 seems like something is off.  Maybe your tumor had more than one type of cells. But I am just speculating.  One thing to think about is that cells respond better to chemo if they are grade 3.  They die when they try to duplicate.  Your tumor burden is out.  If any cells got out and are grade 3, they should be eradicated by chemo.

mommy
Diagnosis: 5/4/2009, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIb, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
kimf
PA
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,083
Nov 4, 2009 02:50 pm kimf wrote:

my biopsy said stage II grade 2, my mast post operative report said CORRECTLY stage III grade 3. The difference for me was a different hospital. A small home town hospital versus a major cancer hospital. I always recommend 2nd and 3rd opinions because of this.

I also had both DCIS and IDC in the same breast...the DCIS was undx'd until mast.

Kimf
Diagnosis: 12/16/2004, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIIc, Grade 3, 15/23 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+
debisongbir…
CA
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 244
Nov 4, 2009 03:39 pm debisongbird wrote:

The radiologist who biopsied my 4.8 tumor said it was DCIS. The surgeon said she thought that it might be different and asked for a surgical biopsy (in office.) That came back STage lll.  That makes me think that different parts of the tumor may have different grades??? I will ask next time I see the surgeon.

Debi
Diagnosis: 2008, 4cm, Stage IIIc, 10/22 nodes
KerryMac
North York, ON
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,699
Nov 4, 2009 04:10 pm KerryMac wrote:

My tumor was both IDC and DCIS - when they biopsy, they only get a small amount, so maybe they biopsied an area where the grade actually was 2, but on full pathological evaluation, it was a 3. I wasn't told anything after my biopsy except that it was IDC, the Grade and hormone receptiveness came after Surgery - I think biopsies are not fully accurate for the "full picture"

Kerry - Mx, Chemo, Rads, Ooph, Arimidex, Zometa
Diagnosis: 11/2008, IDC, 6cm+, Stage IIIa, Grade 3, 6/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
kat43
Oklahoma City, Ok
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39
Nov 4, 2009 05:37 pm kat43 wrote:

My tumor was a grade 2 with the biopsy and a grade 3 for the full pathology.  My son in law is a urologist  and he said a lot of tumors come back a different grade than the biopsy and usually higher so he was not surprised by the upgrade.  I think like other opinions listed above that in looking at the whole picture the worst area is the grade, but that is just my opinion, have not been told that.   I was shocked, I guess I thought it was written in stone and would not change.  My ki-67  and the percentages on the PR and ER were different as well.  The biopsy and the  pathology on the whole tumor  were done at different hospitals and by different pathologists.  


Diagnosis: 4/6/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

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