Topic: Egypt Bans Israeli Scientists from Komen Breast Cancer conf.

I am very sorry, but I am going to have to report the post at the top of this thread.  I know the author is terribly upset about what appears to be an egregious violation of international standards and civil rights.  But, in making those charges, the author of the post refers to the "odious anti-semitism", "baseless racism", and "religious intolerance" of the alleged violator.

In defense of anyone here who might be a resident or citizen of the country allegedly at fault in this situation, I think it would be best to remove the post, unless the author will consider rewriting it to omit the disparaging comments.

Really, I am not taking sides in this.  I would be the first in line to object to the banning of a particular group from attendance at a scientific meeting on the basis of their race, national origin, or religious preference.  However, I think it's possible to object to political decisions like that without resorting to derogatory remarks. Please.

otter 

P.S. (added in edit):  According to the Komen website, the situation described in the original post has been resolved, and no one was "banned" from attending the conference:  http://ww5.komen.org/KomenNewsArticle.aspx?id=6442451409 

Thanks, Shappy.  I don't see what is 'political' about objecting to racism, especially when that racism could literally mean the difference between life and death of some of the women on these boards.  Is otter more concerned about sparing the feelings of the Egyptian government (I said specifically that I was not speaking about Egyptian women - they are affected by this as much as anyone else) or of women dying from breast cancer?  My sympathies lie with us - women with breast cancer and their families - not in protecting some racist regime whose actions threaten our lives.

For the record, my response would be the same if it were the United States, Israel, or any other nation doing this.

I came on to add that due to the efforts of the Komen Foundation, Doctors against Racism, and numerous individuals, the Israeli doctors will be "permitted" to attend the remainder of the conference.  And yes, it was a "ban" - not a misunderstanding, not an accident, but the deliberate exclusion of researchers from a major conference, attempting to save (our) lives based on their religion.  If that doesn't bother you, perhaps you would feel more comfortable living someplace where that's acceptable.  Saudi Arabia, perhaps?

Don't forget that Egypt is one of the only countries in the Middle East where you can travel with an Israeli stamp in your passport. I know because I have been there, done that. That said, recently they have made rather puzzling "scientific" moves like the killing of all the pigs in the country because of H1N1 and now have odious bans on people travelling in and out of Egypt due to the flu. Those in power of making health decisions seemed to be misfiring so to speak. :) This may have been another one.

I have requested that the original post be reinstated.  My message to the moderators is on the Moderator's Messages forum.

I agree that the original post should be reinstated.

The moderators have restated the post...I'd like to thank them (especially Melissa) and everyone who posted here with their thoughts.

Now, let's get out there and kick some cancer butt!

"inelegant". I like that word. It's much more diplomatic than what I was thinking. Diplomacy -- or lack of it --  is what this has all been about, IMHO.

I stand by my original concerns that the opening post of this thread contained "abusive", "hateful", and "defamatory" content, all of which are prohibited by the Community Rules.  I thought it best that the Moderators be alerted to my concerns, so I reported the post.

The reason for my objection was, and is, that this discussion board is an international forum.  It is not someone's own private blog, and its purpose (or so I thought) is not to foster debate on political or religious issues. Women (and men) from all nations, races, and religions ought to be able to come here and feel comfortable when discussing their concerns about breast cancer. I said as much in a post I made to Kerry1000's other thread, on the "Moderator Messages" forum. Unfortunately, I can't quote my own remarks precisely because that entire thread was deleted as the opening post to this one was reinstated.

So, the Moderators have overruled the removal and have reinstated the original post.  That's fine. I accept that they are the final arbiters of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable on these boards.  I also realize (having been informed not-so-elegantly, lately) that many BCO members think everyone ought to be able to say whatever they want on these boards, in whatever tone or language they wish.  Let's move on, then.

2tzus, nice post. I do wonder, though, if the information in that WSJ column you cited is the latest news on the subject.  The path this news has taken is pretty convoluted and not very well documented; so let's see if we can trace it...

First, we know from the Komen website that the conference they were sponsoring in Egypt was to be held Oct. 21-27.

The WSJ column by James Taranto that 2tzus cited was dated Oct. 22. Taranto said his information about the banning of Israeli scientists came, in part, from a report in Arutz Sheva (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133938) .  The Arutz Sheva article was published on-line at 10 p.m. on Oct. 19, two days before the conference began and three days before Taranto's column was published. 

Since its initial report came out, the Arutz Sheva website has printed 133 readers' comments in its "Talkback" section.  I read them all, looking for any information that would tell us whether or not the ban was reversed and the Israeli scientists were actually allowed to attend the meeting.  As was noted in the WSJ column by Taranto, some of the people who wrote to Komen received replies acknowledging the "disinvitation" of the Israeli participants. Here's an example of such a reply:

"... Susan G. Komen for the Cure was planning to have Israeli doctors join us in the collaborative events taking place this week in Egypt, when we learned at the last minute that due to factors beyond our control, the doctors will no longer participate. As a non-profit, non-governmental organization working to end suffering from breast cancer globally, including countries throughout the Middle East, our founder and global ambassador remain committed to their long-planned trip to Israel next week to begin planning collaborative efforts in a country that has demonstrated great need."

That comment was posted to the "Talkback" forum of the Israeli news website on Oct. 20, two days before Taranto printed a similar statement in his WSJ article. He said his source was a reader who had "passed along" the information from an email reply sent by Komen.

Things changed on Oct. 22, however.  On that day, several readers posted to the Arutz Sheva  site that they had received emails from Komen informing them that Egypt's ban on Israeli attendance had been rescinded. (Please refer to the Arutz Sheva site for examples; this post is getting way too long already.)

So, it seems the banning had been rescinded by Oct. 22, and "all advocates," including the Israelis, were invited to participate.  The Komen website now contains that same information, including explicit mention of the Israeli participants, in an "official statement" by Nancy Brinker.  The statement acknowledges the earlier reports that "some of the invited participants would not be allowed to attend." However, the statement continues,:

"Susan G. Komen for the Cure has now received confirmation that all advocates, regardless of their country of origin, are invited to fully participate in events to bring breast cancer to the forefront of public discussion in the Middle East.

"After we received the initial report on the situation, we launched a diplomatic effort to ensure they would be able to participate. I am pleased to report that our efforts led to confirmation that all advocates would be welcome to participate in the events...". 

http://ww5.komen.org/KomenNewsArticle.aspx?id=6442451409 

Note that the title of that announcement from Komen is, "Susan G. Komen for the Cure Pleased to Announce Egyptian Events to Welcome All Advocates, Including those from Israel"; and the date of the announcement is Oct. 22, 2009.

The fact of the matter is that the Susan G Komen Foundation is not being transparent with regard to this incident. They failed to address the anti-semitical (or call it political if that is how you see it) action of the Egyptian government. The statement on their website does NOT strongly condemn the Egyptian Health Minister's actions, regardless of whether the banning were rescinded. How would you like to be invited to a dinner party and then publicly told you couldn't come, and then told "nevermind, you can come afterall". Oh I'd bet you go, right? ("You" being a general hypothetical "you" and not meant to address anyone specifically here).

The fact is the Susan G Komen Foundation IS being coy about the circumstances of this insulting incident. They are NOT being transparent as to what transpired and what the ending result was. They could not even bring themselves to ADMIT that it was ISRAELIS who were being banned by the Egyptian government and this was because....????

This is the biggest breast cancer fundraising organization in the world and for it to have even the "slightest" appearance of complicity or acceptance of what Egypt did reflects POORLY upon them and their leadership. This is a big deal and it will continue to be a big deal, moreso (I believe) after the conference is over. I believe that it's fundraising abilities will be damaged as a result. It IS a timely topic for BCO because so many women here are/have been involved in fundraising for this organization.

If you prefer to think the Egyptian government's action were based upon "politics" rather than "race" or "religion", than I'm sure that you believe that South Africa's apartheid policies were "political" rather than "racism" inspired. It's pretty much the same thing. (and again "you" is hypothetical general "you" and not directed to anyone here in particular).

no need to say it twice. My computer hiccuped. sorry.

Please.  I don't intend to join in a hypothetical discussion of how I might feel if I were issued a dinner-party invitation that was publicly withdrawn and then re-issued.  And, I'm not going to debate whether South Africa's apartheid policies were inspired by politics or racism.

No matter what I think about those questions, my opinions on them are not relevant to the point I've been trying to make in my posts on this thread.  I've already stated my arguments twice here and once elsewhere on the now-deleted thread, so I'm going to pass on presenting them yet again.  I am also going to graciously decline the invitation by another person here that I move to Saudi Arabia.

On the other hand, 2tzus is correct in suggesting that Komen's current "official" statement on the issue of Israeli attendance is different from what they had posted on their website last Friday. 

I provided a link to their original announcement and mentioned its content in my post on Oct. 23.  That day, the "official" announcement was a vague, general statement assuring people that all who had been invited to the meeting in Egypt were able to attend.

Earlier this afternoon, I offered a link to what I assumed was an updated announcement from Komen.  The new announcement contained much more detail than the original one.  It mentioned the ealier reports of problems concerning attendance by some of the invitees; it said Komen had "received confirmation that all advocates, regardless of their country of origin, [were] invited to fully participate"; and it named the Israelis specifically as being among those who were "invited".

I did not notice until now that the two links I had given in my posts were identical.  When I tried to go back to the Komen site and retrieve the original, vague announcement I'd read on Friday, I could no longer find it.  Since I can't tell if the page itself carries a time stamp, I have no way of knowing when the information was changed.  I do suspect that Komen was in the process of modifying its official announcement over the weekend, but that's purely speculation.  I prefer to leave the speculation about Komen's motives, integrity, and future fund-raising success to others.

otter

Kerry, 

Since this post is causing a  bit of issues, would you mind providing some website information as to how you heard about this happening? Maybe it would be helpful.

Thanks,

Melissa

Sorry, I don't know why the fomatting is coming through.  I wasn't able to edit it out as it doesn't show up in "edit" mode.

I find Athena and Otter's posts reasoned and intelligent.

 As this Board absolutely loves a bit of foreigner bashing, for no reason whatsoever other than to be argumentative, I will state the following :

The British people have never understood and were deeply hurt by the American Government's refusal  ever to criticise the 25 year IRA bombing campaign of the British Isles and Northern Ireland, the relentless murdering of innocent civilians and the terrorism whish slaughtered children and obliterated villages, shopping areas and town centres.  Back in thsoe days I was a frequent flyer into Chicago and Boston airports, where IRA collectors did very nicely with their murder funding tins.

Pot, kettle, black ,  blah b;lah blah.

Guess what, people all over the world have their sensitivites.

Yours sincerely Mrs ranting maniac