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All TopicsForum: Hormonal Therapy - Before, During and After → Topic: Tamoxifen side effects in post-menopausal women

Topic: Tamoxifen side effects in post-menopausal women

Forum: Hormonal Therapy - Before, During and After — Risks and benefits, side effects, and costs of anti-estrogen medications.

Posted on: Dec 28, 2012 01:24PM

lane4 wrote:

I've been reading about side effects from tamoxifen and I get the sense that the effects are different for pre- and post-menopausal women. I initially declined the tamoxifen that was recommended by my breast surgeon and oncologist, but have recently begun to consider it again. I am 52 and had my last period about three years ago. Plus, I have had some episodes of atrial fibrillation which seems to be well under control now. The atrial fib was the main reason I refused tamoxifen (stroke risk).  

I know we're all different, but I'd love to hear from some other menopausal women about their side effects. Thanks in advance for your replies!

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May 30, 2013 01:34PM lane4 wrote:

I'm going to add to this thread since I didn't get any replies when I posted in December. I saw my oncologist's partner in late December and he urged me to reconsider taking tamoxifen. As I wrote above, I declined when it was first offered because of a history of atrial fib. I saw my cardiologist this morning and he feels that tamoxifen would not be that risky because my a-fib is under control, I am on a low-dose aspirin regimen, I am not overweight, do not have high blood pressure and don't smoke.

I know that the only way to know how tamoxifen will affect me is to actually try it. But, I thought some ladies here could provide some insight that doctors will not tell me. I still have my uterus and do have a history of submucosal uterine fibroids that improved with menopause. I have a strong family history of breast cancer but am BRCA negative. I can't find much information about side effects post-menopause, but I have read that pre-menopausal women seem to have fewer problems with tamoxifen. It's hard to know what is true.

At this point, if I take tamoxifen it will be mostly to protect the other breast. I feel that my recurrence risk is quite low after partial mastectomy and radiation. Any words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated!

Dx 8/10/2009, DCIS, Stage 0, Grade 2, ER+/PR+Radiation Therapy 10/26/2009 External
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May 30, 2013 01:43PM, edited Oct 15, 2013 01:32PM by Moderators

God, i wish i knew too. I have been on arimidex for three months now, and i do positively hate it. plus, they said my dexa bone can showed mild ostopoenia. weird because my work i have done till bc has always been weight bearing. i wish they would have done that test before chemo. i do see my mo in a week, and i want to ask him by what percentage does arimidex help. His nurse will only tell me its clinically significant. I swear, if it is only one percent or 2 %. i will stop and take my chances.

Dx 6/8/2012, IDC, Stage IIIc, Grade 3, 25/30 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+Surgery Lumpectomy (Right); Lymph Node Removal: Axillary Lymph Node Dissection (Right)Chemotherapy carboplatin, TaxotereRadiation Therapy ExternalHormonal Therapy TamoxifenTargeted Therapy Herceptin
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May 30, 2013 04:25PM SelenaWolf wrote:

Chemotherapy threw me into menopause and I was started on tamoxifen about 5 months afterwards.  I've had only minor side effects to date (i.e., vaginal discharge) and it's not impacted my athletic lifestyle one bit.

"... good girls never made history ..."

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May 30, 2013 05:16PM BobbiMarie wrote:

This thread appears to have 'stopped' but am hoping someone is watching it.  Has anyone had neuropathy from Tamoxifen taken on a post menopausal basis?  I did NOT do chemo but my feet have been giving me a hard time and when I went to the doctor today, he suggested it behaves like neuropathy.....burning and I can feel them but they feel almost numb....just weird.  I don't see it as a listed side effect but lots of the side effects people have are not listed so hoping this group can offer some info.

Dx 5/5/2011, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-
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May 30, 2013 08:13PM JuanitaB wrote:

Hi Ladies, Just a bit of background, I am 54 yrs, 14 yrs post menopause (naturally early) and I was on HRT for the first 7 years, until I was 47 yrs. Prior to my bc dx I was diagnosed with low bone density (not taking any drugs for it, hate pharmacuticals).

I have been told to take Tamoxifen rather than an AI because of my bone issues. Started (against oncologist advice) at half dose for the first 3 weeks. I had some transient se's, sore knees one of them. Also, heating up some, weird taste in mouth, some stomach upset. I went to full dose 5 days ago and haven't had a good nights sleep since, spend my nights hot, sweaty and awake. Yell

Today I feel wretched and cranky from lack of sleep so went back to half dose. Don't know how I will proceed from here but I do know I need to be able to sleep. I have been taking the tam in the morning so maybe it would help if I tried in the evening. I am scared to take it and I am scared not to take it so I do want to give it a real effort.

Anyway, I am very interested to hear other post menopausal tam stories, too. Unfortunately, I have no words of wisdom to share. Frown

BobbiMarie, I have read other posts about foot problems and tam.

Living flat and fabulous (tried tamoxifen for 6 weeks but quit due to multiple side effects)

Dx 2/12/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Surgery 02/27/2013 Mastectomy (Left); Prophylactic Mastectomy (Right)Hormonal Therapy 05/01/2013 Tamoxifen
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May 30, 2013 11:34PM, edited May 30, 2013 11:35PM by IsThisForReal

Hi, I started Tam in Aug 2010, the same day I started rads.  At first, the hot flashes were hardly bareable but have improved greatly now.  We ended up installing a cieling  fan in my bedroom, and that was heaven!    I also take effexor which helps with the hot flashes, and anxiety.  I've also had sore knees, left hip, and developed two trigger thumbs.  They've been able to help the trigger thumbs with lazer therapy, and the stiffness/soreness is helped with walking.  However, that left hip is stubborn so I really have to gauge my walks to my hip pain.  (Ultrasounds, xrays, and bone scans were all clear).  The fatigue is what I am finding hard to handle though, and can't find much relief for that at all.  Any suggestions on that would be so welcome!

ETA - I was premenopausal when starting chemo but went into chemopause at 46 y/o.

Lymphedema

Dx 11/30/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIb, Grade 2, 2/12 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+Surgery 12/30/2009 Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Axillary Lymph Node Dissection (Left)Chemotherapy 03/17/2010 carboplatin, TaxotereTargeted Therapy 03/17/2010 HerceptinHormonal Therapy 08/03/2010 TamoxifenRadiation Therapy 08/03/2010 ExternalSurgery 08/24/2011 Prophylactic Mastectomy (Both)Surgery 10/01/2013 Prophylactic Ovary Removal (Both)
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May 30, 2013 11:39PM rosalia56 wrote:

I will have a pelvic US every 6 months to check your endometrium stripe ( measurement inside) to make sure your endometrium is not growing abnormally.. and of course be aware of any excessive vaginal bleeding.

I know people who had no symptoms at all! 

Did the 5 years without problems well she was less than 50y/0

rosalie

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May 30, 2013 11:55PM, edited May 30, 2013 11:56PM by IsThisForReal

Ah yes, that was another issue I was having.  Endometrium was/is thickened, pain in one ovary (simple cyst), and fibroids including a large one on the cervix which was causing bleeding.  I have just signed the consent forms and will have an ophro-salping-hysterectomy in the next several months.  There is a family history there with bc, and don't really want to risk waiting until I get through genetic councilling, which won't be for another year.  All biopsies were clear...yay!

Lymphedema

Dx 11/30/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIb, Grade 2, 2/12 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+Surgery 12/30/2009 Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Axillary Lymph Node Dissection (Left)Chemotherapy 03/17/2010 carboplatin, TaxotereTargeted Therapy 03/17/2010 HerceptinHormonal Therapy 08/03/2010 TamoxifenRadiation Therapy 08/03/2010 ExternalSurgery 08/24/2011 Prophylactic Mastectomy (Both)Surgery 10/01/2013 Prophylactic Ovary Removal (Both)
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May 31, 2013 12:57AM Beckers wrote:

I am post menopausal. I started tami in October. My onc told me he doesn't see blood clots often and that fact that I walk a lot at work is a plus to prevent them. (i was advised to walk at least 3 days per week before returning to work.). The SE's are not the easiest to tolerate. Today, my onc told me tumors throw "seeds" and the tamoxifen keeps them from growing. Good luck to you!

Diagnosed with bilateral or synchronous breast cancer

Dx 3/2012, IDC, 1cm, Stage Ib, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Dx 3/2012, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, ER+/PR+Surgery 04/10/2012 Lumpectomy (Both)Surgery 08/09/2012 Mastectomy (Both); Reconstruction: DIEP flap (Both)Hormonal Therapy 10/13/2012 Tamoxifen
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May 31, 2013 01:43AM dalie219 wrote:

lane4, hi!  I am also on the fence about tamoxifen--my mo and ro say it is necessary in recurrence prevention and in protecting the contralateral (unaffected) breast. I sent my records to Dr. Michael Lagios in CA, the "expert" in DCIS, and he does not think I need the tamoxifen--says lumpectomy and radiation are sufficient. What I am trying to understand is the "relative risk" vs "absolute risk" of recurrence or a new more invasive cancer with or without the tamoxifen. I am terrified of the side effects, and I feel so good now that I don't want to mess things up! Some women say the se's are not so bad, but I think they are in the minority. And who wants to take MORE drugs to counteract the se's? I see my mo again next week, and she is really pushing the tamox. Ugh--I don't know what to do either!! Good Luck!

Dx 12/20/2012, DCIS, 5cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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May 31, 2013 11:14AM lane4 wrote:

Thank you to all who have posted replies on this thread. I hope they'll keep coming in -- I really want to hear about other post-menopausal women's experience with tamoxifen.

dalie219 - I would love to know what you decide. I continue to go around in circles on this issue at 3 1/2 years out. One minute I think I'd like to try it and the next, I think not.

Dx 8/10/2009, DCIS, Stage 0, Grade 2, ER+/PR+Radiation Therapy 10/26/2009 External
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May 31, 2013 10:04PM GemStateGirl wrote:

I'm currently 59 and was diagnosed when I was 57.  I'd been in menopause for about a year and a half at that point.  My MO said she wanted me on tamoxifen until I was 60 and then she would switch me to one of the aromatase inhibitors.  

I've been on tamoxifen for 15 months and really haven't experienced any bad SEs.  The only thing I've noticed recently is more joint pain which I'll ask about at my next appointment.  Who knows, it may have nothing to do with the tamoxifen since I am closing in on 60.

My advice would be to try it.  You can always stop.  I'm always afraid I'll have every known SE when I'm trying something new and I'm usually pleasantly surprised when I don't.  I'm very grateful that I'm having an easy time of it because with a Stage 3C diagnosis and being strongly ER+, I feel like I have to take it.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Original dx Stage IIIc, July 2011; bone mets, December 2013. Treatments: Mast (Rt), ACT Chemo, Radiation, Tamoxifen, Faslodex/Zometa.

Dx 7/27/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIIc, Grade 2, 28/28 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jun 1, 2013 01:05AM JuanitaB wrote:

Well, crap, now I am spotting, after 14 yrs....past menopause?

Living flat and fabulous (tried tamoxifen for 6 weeks but quit due to multiple side effects)

Dx 2/12/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Surgery 02/27/2013 Mastectomy (Left); Prophylactic Mastectomy (Right)Hormonal Therapy 05/01/2013 Tamoxifen
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Jun 1, 2013 08:54PM mybee333 wrote:

I am happy to have found this thread.  I had a full hysterectomy 5 yrs. ago and am two years out from BC.  I have given AIs 4 trials without success due to lots of pain, joints, muscles, etc.  I also have fibromyalgia; the AIs would throw me into a flare.  I also became severely depressed.  So........doctors wanted me to try Tamoxifen. I have been taking it one week. I am experiencing a flare in my toes and fingers but that could be stress; (my fingers really ache right now).  I have learned to live with SOME pain.  But my big concern is my sleep.  I sleep only 6 hrs. or so and it is not good quality sleep.  And I can't seem to nap to make up for it.  I just am starting to feel run down.  Usually I catch up on my sleep on the weekends but today woke up at 6 a.m. unable to fall back asleep and was pretty unproductive all day.  I can't continue that way and manage my life.  AM wondering..........has this happened to anyone else?  Does the sleep issue improve over time (hopefully??)(btw - I already take klonopin for sleep for the fibro.)

Don't wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain. ~ UMX w/ silicone implant reconstruction. Multifocal -IDC, DCIS, Pagets.

Dx 4/6/2011, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-
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Jun 1, 2013 09:24PM besa wrote:

I took tamoxifen for 5 years - started just before menopause and decided not to switch to an AI after menopause because tamoxifen was so easy for me to tolerate and I wanted to prevent bone loss.  (My MO was OK with my decision).  I had one endometrial polyp on tamoxifen which had to be dealt with and some very ocassional leg cramps which I think were helped by exercise. (I am active and like to work out.)  No other side effects at all.   Also I lost some weight on tamoxifen which was nice.  I agree with the advice to ask for a pelvic ultrasound every 6 months or every year -- just be be sure there is not too much endometrial thickening or other gyn issues. 

Dx 2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIa, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jun 2, 2013 09:34AM badger wrote:

hi lane4, I'm 53 and was 50 and in peri-menopause at dx.  Chemo put me into full menopause.  Went on tamox in July 2010 so been on it nearly three years.  SE's are not too bad.  Had wicked hot flashes and night sweats at first but they've settled down.  I carry a folding hand fan in my purse and keep one in a desk drawer at work and deploy it PRN.  Still have occasional night-time leg & foot cramps. 

Just saw onc last week for six-month follow-up and had a discussion about hormonal tx.  We agreed on tamox for two more years but he would not agree to ten years of tamox because he said it's too risky for post-menopausal women, endometrial issues and thrombosis (blood clots) being the major worries.  In two years, he'll put me on an AI, probably Arimidex or Femara.

He had wanted me to have an ooph but I resisted.  However, that decision was taken out of my hands last fall when I went to the ER with what turned out to be appendicitis.  Quite by accident, the abdominal CT scan found a large ovarian cyst in addition to an inflamed appendix.  Had ovaries & tubes out six weeks after appendectomy.  Did have a trans-vaginal ultrasound for a baseline measurement of endometrium and it's looking good so far.  (touch wood)

My mom was dx with BC nearly twenty years ago and took tamox for five years.  She did OK so maybe same for me.  So I stay active, take a low-dose aspirin, and hope for the best.  Good luck to you, whatever you decide.  ♥

4,361.0 miles walked ~ Find your calm. Move forward from this place.

Dx 12/22/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIb, Grade 1, 1/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jun 3, 2013 07:43AM, edited Jun 3, 2013 07:44AM by Delvzy

Hi I am an Aussie girl diag 2008 been on tamoxifen for over 4 years. Don't have hot flushes, sweats or any other problems . I haven't been a good sleeper since diagnosis but I do take meletonin drops and a valerian tablet before bed sleep quite well now. I am also on a natropathic women's menopause supplement which helps so much I walk 5km every day and eat a high protein low fat low sugar diet hope this helps
Dx 8/9/08 IDC 1/2cm grade 3 Dcis grade 3 1/14 nodes er/pr+ mast bi-lat 6 rounds chemo

Dx 9/8/2008, DCIS, Stage 0, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Dx 9/8/2008, IDC, <1cm, Stage II, Grade 3, 1/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Dx ILC, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 1/14 nodes, ER-/PR+, HER2-Surgery 10/11/2008 Mastectomy (Both); Lymph Node Removal (Both); Reconstruction: Tissue expander placement, Breast implants (permanent) (Both)Chemotherapy 11/23/2008 Adriamycin, Cytoxan, fluorouracil, methotrexate, Taxotere
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Jun 6, 2013 10:15AM Loral wrote:

What criteria does your MO use to put you on Tamoxifen. I'm post menopausal and have been on Tamoxifen for 6 months. He says he thinks I belong on Arimidex. What decides Tamoxifen over Arimidex. Thanks

Oncotype DX 34....When NOTHING is sure, EVERYTHING is possible ,so NEVER, EVER, GIVE UP HOPE!!

Dx 9/11/2012, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-Surgery 10/09/2012 Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left)Hormonal Therapy 12/13/2012 Tamoxifen
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Jun 6, 2013 11:27AM micronancy wrote:

I'm post menopausal and take Tamoxifen because of osteoporosis. We're going to try the Tamox and Fosamax for 2 years, have another DEXA scan and proceed from there. I'm hoping to stay on Tamoxifen as long as there are no major side effects; severe osteoporosis from the AIs is terrifying to me. So far tolerating Tamoxifen quite well.

Dx 1/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage Ia, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Surgery 02/04/2013 Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left)
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Jun 6, 2013 06:21PM, edited Jun 6, 2013 06:22PM by Loral

micronancy...yes, I would rather stay on Tamoxifen also, I have osteopenia in my left hip and back problems. I don't want anymore aches and pains right now. FSH 41.6 does that mean anything, that's what my MO tested last month.

Oncotype DX 34....When NOTHING is sure, EVERYTHING is possible ,so NEVER, EVER, GIVE UP HOPE!!

Dx 9/11/2012, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-Surgery 10/09/2012 Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left)Hormonal Therapy 12/13/2012 Tamoxifen
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Jun 6, 2013 06:41PM pattithenurse wrote:

Hmmm........I'm 65,have osteoporosis,and I'm really wondering if I'll be on Tamoxifen. I meet with him in the middle of the month. Guess some of us are in between a rock and a hard place! thanks women for listening................

Dx 1/8/2013, IDC, 2cm, Stage II, Grade 3, 1/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Chemotherapy 03/01/2013 Cytoxan, Taxotere
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Jun 6, 2013 07:12PM micronancy wrote:

FSH is follicle stimulating hormone and anything over 20 usually occurs in women past menopause. That's what they tested when my periods stopped at the age of 36 and discovered I was already in menopause.

Dx 1/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage Ia, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Surgery 02/04/2013 Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left)
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Jun 6, 2013 07:20PM, edited Jun 6, 2013 11:26PM by micronancy

Patti, my MO was going to put me on an AI until I suggested Tamoxifen and Fosamax  and she thought it was a good idea. If I hadn't spoken up, I'd probably be on an AI just because it's standard of care. So talk it over.

Dx 1/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage Ia, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Surgery 02/04/2013 Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left)
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Jun 6, 2013 09:04PM Beckers wrote:

What's Foxamax?

Diagnosed with bilateral or synchronous breast cancer

Dx 3/2012, IDC, 1cm, Stage Ib, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Dx 3/2012, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, ER+/PR+Surgery 04/10/2012 Lumpectomy (Both)Surgery 08/09/2012 Mastectomy (Both); Reconstruction: DIEP flap (Both)Hormonal Therapy 10/13/2012 Tamoxifen
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Jun 6, 2013 09:35PM 1openheart wrote:

I've been on Tamoxifen for nearly two years.  I had bone loss several years ago due to extended corticosteroid use for asthma.  After being on  bio identical hormone pellets for two years, my bone density increased significantly.  But, after my BC diagnosis, I had to stop taking my hormones.  I saw a small reduction in my density last year and this year I saw a significant reduction in my hip (-9.2%).  I thought that the tamoxifen was bone protective???

Is there any reason to fear that if the tamoxifen is not protecting my bones that I may not be metabolizing it well and it may not be protecting my remaining breast?  Just wondering...

"The wound is the place where the light enters you." ~ Rumi

Dx 4/28/2011, DCIS, 1cm, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+Surgery 06/15/2011 Mastectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left); Reconstruction: Breast implants (permanent), Nipple reconstruction (Left)
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Jul 7, 2013 03:44PM peggy_j wrote:

1openheart, I'm pre-menopausal and experienced bone loss while on tamoxifen. My MO swears up and down that tamox "builds bone" but when I met with the head of an osteoporosis clinic he said that SERMs behave differently for pre and post-meno women. Not sure what your status is but something to consider. He also said that most drugs used to treat osteoporosis (like SERMs) don't "build bone" but reduce the rate of bone loss. So I think the best we can hope for with tamox is that it will help reduce the rate of bone loss that most women see in the first several years after menopause.

Dx 2/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage Ia, Grade 1, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jul 7, 2013 04:09PM proudtospin wrote:

Beckers...Fosamax is a med to rebuild bone density.  I took it in my 50's for a time, went off at a certain point but it prevents or reverses osteoporosis

iris

Dx 6/2008, DCIS, Stage 0, ER+
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Jul 7, 2013 04:18PM lane4 wrote:

When I was diagnosed, I was in perimenopause and my oncologist listed bone loss as a potential side effect. Hearing that, along with some other issues I had, pushed me away from tamoxifen. Since then, I have crossed over to postmenopause and my primary care doc tells me that tamoxifen will protect my bones as well as my my breasts. So now I am reconsidering trying tamoxifen. Still on the fence, though. One day I think I may as well try it, then the next day (after I read about side effects) I don't want to. I can't decide if the benefit outweighs the risk for me.

Dx 8/10/2009, DCIS, Stage 0, Grade 2, ER+/PR+Radiation Therapy 10/26/2009 External
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Jul 8, 2013 01:08AM kdkickapoo wrote:

Wow...Tamox has not been a good friend of mine. I went into change of life at 44 yrs after my first chemo treatment. My doctor put me on tamox after radiation. Quit taking three times because of the horrible sickness I got everyday. Bone pain was daily. Eventually, excessive bleeding happened for four weeks and had my ovaries taken out. Put on Arimidex and that was worse yet. If side effects were listed, then yep, I got them. It amazes me that many who take either, just don't get side effects. Just started tamox yesterday again and hoping that the sickness doesn't start again, because if it does, then I have to kiss tamox goodbye. I meet with my doctor next month and we'll see what happens. Positive vibrations to you!

Dx 8/14/2009, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIIc, Grade 3, 11/21 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-Surgery 10/02/2009 Mastectomy (Right); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection, Axillary Lymph Node Dissection (Right)Chemotherapy 10/20/2009 Adriamycin, Cytoxan, TaxolRadiation Therapy 04/17/2010 ExternalHormonal Therapy 01/02/2011 TamoxifenHormonal Therapy 08/25/2012 ArimidexHormonal Therapy 04/13/2013 Tamoxifen
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Jul 9, 2013 02:52PM sandiesau wrote:

             hi...I am also suffering from incredible insomnia. I'm lucky if I get 3 or four hours a night.  This is creating such anxiety  for me that I called my oncologist to tell her I just can"t continue this way. I will let you know what she says when she calls me back today

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