All Topics → Forum: Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment → Topic: Brevail vs Tamoxifen
Posted on: Dec 23, 2007 07:27pm
Posts 1 - 17 (17 total)
Jan 13, 2008 09:26am, edited Jan 13, 2008 11:31am by lisametoo
What about soy is bad? Is there some research you have that shows negativity? Everything I can find on genistein is very positive and it is used topically in the new GK protocol. Please let me know if you've read conflicting studies. I have posted this question to Dr. Martin and he responds: "Doctors have scared women over the use of soy isoflavones. This is ridiculous. Japanese women eat tons of soy and they experience very low breast cancer rates. Estrogen is 50,000 times more potent in the activation of the estrogen alpha receptor than genistein. Genistein is poorly soluble in water so it must be administered topically along with parthenolide. They are a good combo. Feel free to post your experiences with others on the discussion group. If someone CURED herself of a stage 4 breast cancer, I would like to know the details." Genesis, I asked you privately (have you checked your inbox?), what your specific protocol was/is. I would like to pass it on to Dr. Martin. Would you mind e-mailing me the details? Please be incredibly specific. My e-mail address is in my profile. Thanks and have a beautiful Sunday!
Jan 13, 2008 10:59pm genesis wrote:
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you - it was a busy, beautiful Sunday indeed!!
First Lisa, regarding soy, there is plenty of negative information. Go to Mercola.com and put soy in the search. It will keep you busy reading. Dr. Richard Schulze says to stay clear of soy as well as Dr. Jordan Rubin ("Maker's Diet").
I have not received anything in my inbox from you as of this evening. I'll direct the rest of your questions to your E-mail.
Jan 14, 2008 08:32am lisametoo wrote:
This is Dr. Martin's reply to the genistein issue, "There is NO SUCH THING as a diet high in genistein. Another useless cell culture study."
It appears to me, that genistein (isolated), not soy itself, in small concentrations has an impact. I'm surely not trying to be combatitive, but through the years I've seen so much dis-information given to the public about natural foods, that it makes me crazy. I've been studying for 25 years now, and just about everything I take a stance on has proven to be good in the "final judgement!". I would like each one of us on this board to take a scientific approach to our comments, and back up our opinions with the appropriate studies, or in the case of soy, Asian peoples have been using it for hundreds of years with positive effects. When Asian women come to U.S. and adopt a western style of living (diet), they have the same incidence of breast cancer as the rest of us.
I do respect Dr. Mercola. I have been receiving his newsletters for almost 6 years. I just don't believe everything I read. I look at study after study after study, take other factors into the equation, such as dietary habits, stress, lifestyle habits, psychology. Everything I can think of that contributes to a condition. It's a muck out there. I'm going to wade through it!
Jan 14, 2008 07:27pm genesis wrote:
I'm wading right along with you.....I'll forward information as I gather it regarding this topic. I know the argument for Asian peoples in the case of soy and breast cancer but I also think their lower incidence of breast cancer has alot to do with their high vegetable consumption and the fact that vegetables are high in lignans.........the research AND everyone's opinion goes on!!
Jan 24, 2008 08:40am, edited Jan 24, 2008 12:20pm by Rosemary44
Until they can figure out why genistein in soy promotes the growth of existing tumors, I would look at other foods for prevention of a recurrence.
"The data suggest that in an endogenous estrogen environment similar to that of a postmenopausal woman, dietary genistein can stimulate the growth of a mammary carcinogen MNU-induced estrogen-dependent mammary tumors."
In another paper:
SP (Soy Protein) initially regressed the tumors but starting at week 13, the tumors regressed significantly less than in control and 43% of the tumors were regrowing until the end of the experiment and were significantly larger in size than in control. The combination of SP with FS reduced the tumor growth similar to that of control, as suggested also by the reduced tumor cell proliferation index. In conclusion, dietary FS did not stimulate the growth of estrogen responsive MCF-7 cancers in ovariectomized mice, while long-term consumption of SP did. Furthermore, FS reduced the tumor growth stimulating effect of SP to the same level as control, suggesting tumor growth attenuating effect of FS. Copyright 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc
Jan 24, 2008 06:44pm BlindedByScience wrote:
Rosemary, another article with some of the same authors as one paper in your post above checked to see if flaxseed, soy protein isolate, or both together, had any effects on bone health and the uterus in mice. Compared to the control, both flaxseed and soy enhanced bone strength (see the article for details), but soy protein isolate alone and soy plus flaxseed, stimulated the growth of the uterus (probably not good). This effect was not seen in the group getting just flaxseed, so it looks like soy may have another strike against it.
Jan 25, 2008 07:24am, edited Jan 27, 2008 03:20am by Rosemary44
They said they'll be doing another research project using both soy and flaxseed again to see if the flaxseed will offset the growth to tumors that soy does. I'm interested because we can't get away from soy. Maybe if we ate some flax every day to protect ourselves from soy overload we'd be doing ourselves a favor. I'm waiting for that paper to show up.
Jan 25, 2008 08:46am hopefor30 wrote:
The whole soy thing can be very confusing -- I have not yet asked my onc about it, but will. But I have been reading -- I have decided to eliminate it from my diet -- doesn't sound good.
I have also read that there is a difference between eating soy if you are not diagnosed with breast cancer -- in that case (and this would include Asians) it can be beneficial. It is after you are diagnosed that there is controversy. Apparently, it can have difference effects then -- everyone must make up their own mind, but I personally won't be eating it....
Jan 25, 2008 01:07pm BlindedByScience wrote:
Rosemary, the article I linked to above contains a summary of some of their research regarding the combination of soy & flaxseed--I think this is what you were looking for:
"In addition, combining SPI and FS resulted in a negation of SPI-induced tumor growth. "[SPI is soy protein isolate & FS is flaxseed]
Jan 25, 2008 02:24pm Rosemary44 wrote:
Yes, now I see it. But I would have thought they would have an entire paper on FS offsetting the soy, and not just a sentence or a paragraph about it. I wanted to see how long they ran the test.
Sometimes they only run it long enough to get the answers they're looking for.
May 8, 2009 08:22am lisasayers wrote:
You ladies may want to do your research on DIM if you are looking for something other than Tamoxifen. Brevail is a breast health formula. And we discuss this a LOT in the natural girls thread.
One year cancer FREE 10/24/09! Bilateral with TE 10/24/08, 4 Cycles TC ended 2/6/09, Exchange Surgery 410 Gummie 3/20/09Dx 9/25/2008, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
Oct 29, 2010 03:50pm lynea wrote:
The Brevail is labeled on the box (if I remember correctly) as a "breast health formula". I spoke with the bio-engineers that developed this, and basically, Brevail does something very similar to Tamoxifen --- it clings to the estrogen in the body's tissue, and permits the estrogen to be released rather than it just hanging around indefinitely, producing odd cell formations. If a woman's doctor finds a tumor in her breast that has estrogen positive cells around it, it is usually the reason the doctor will call for the use of Tamoxifen. Although the Brevail is derived originally from flax, that does not mean that it is necessarily safer, or better, or more effective. Some of the side effects are similar because it results in the same effect, however, it may be a weaker 'drug' all together as compared to Tamoxifen (no one knows for sure, apparently), and might be a bit more tolerable, however, possibly also less effective.
DIM is (allegedly) digestible indole-3-carbinol acts as an aromitase inhibitor.