Topic: Progesterone cream

Here's an article by a Dr William Wong:

Estrogen-how is it bad for you?

By: Dr. William Wong, ND, PhD

Women have been seduced by the promises of estrogen. As a young woman, estrogen in birth control pills kept you from getting pregnant. Estrogen also may have been used to keep your periods regular and acne clear. For gals over 40 this hormone is touted to keep bones firm, libido up and keep all of the nastiness of menopause at bay.

So, what has almost 50 years of treating women with estrogen taught us?

The lessons are these: Estrogen is good for 6 things:

1. Starting your periods.
2. Starting Labor.
3. Making you fat, increasing body fat mostly from the waist down while decreasing lean muscle mass.
4. Creating depression and PMS style mood swings all the time.
5. Causing sexual dysfunction.
6. Causing fibrosis and cancer of the breast, cervix and uterus.

If we count the problems of xenoestrogen, estrogen like substances found in the daily environment from: Petrochemical fumes, insecticide, synthetic fertilizers, and all soy products, then we increase the number of side effects to the general population substantially.

What problems? Well ones like:

• Death of testicular tissue in men and boys.
• Very early onset of menstruation in girls.
• Depression caused by testosterone suppression and estrogen dominance in both men and women.
• The trend towards obesity. (Which is best seen in places where the environment is rife with environmental estrogen i.e. the industrial deep south and farming midwest).
• Premature aging.
• Recurrent miscarriages.
• Increasing rates of sterility.

"So aside from not letting a girl get pregnant, what good is this estrogen stuff anyway?" Many thinking docs are asking themselves the same question. Estrogen dominance is a problem today for both sexes and all ages. But wait you ask, "I'm menopausal how can I be estrogen dominant! I'm having the night sweats and hot flashes to prove I don't have enough estrogen".

Well it's very possible to be in full menopause with all of the symptoms thereof and still have estrogen dominance. Your period has stopped; your childbearing years are behind you. Your body is making less of the all of the sexual hormones and it makes adjustments according to what the hormone did. For example, aside from estrogen a woman's sexual hormones include Progesterone and Testosterone. (Yes, you gals had quite a bit of the T stuff, it's what made you horny when you were younger; and you thought it was just a guy thing)! Progesterone is what kept you pregnant. Levels go up to 486% higher than normal by the second trimester of a pregnancy. Well your body knows it's baby making days are gone so, you don't need the sexual desire any more - out goes the Testosterone; and you're never going to carry a baby again so - out goes the Progesterone. What is the only hormone you make in any measurable amount during and after menopause - Estrogen. You're not making as much of the stuff as you did before, but compared with the P and the T hormones, whose production is nearly zero, it's about all your making; so Bingo, Estrogen dominance.

"Yeah, so what", is usually the next reply. Well here's the so what, aside from carrying babies:

Progesterone:

Elevates Mood! It's the reason why pregnancy feels so happy and life is so grand for most gals after first trimester. When estrogen levels increase during third trimester and peak to cause labor, that's when pregnancy begins to be a drag. The British National Health Service has shown that the drop in Progesterone level IS the reason for post partum depression. The 486% "mind" high went straight into permanent near nothing levels. Until the Progesterone level rises the depression remains. Using natural Progesterone cream elevates mood and fights depression in as little as 30 minuets!

Increases bone density. This is the hormone that builds baby bodies and brains. What is does for them it can do for you! Estrogen is showing itself to be a poor bone builder with only some 2 to 3% increase per year possible at best when it is used. In contrast a good weightlifting program by itself will increase bone density between 12 to 15 % in one year with any bad side effects! Imagine what Progesterone and strength training can do?

Fights the production of too much estrogen. (Like aging. That's why many cosmetics manufacturers have been putting natural progesterone in their anti aging formulas for over 40 years)! Whether your excess estrogen is coming from environmental sources, food, drugs, or from your nature being off balance, Progesterone keeps the production of estrogen in check and in so doing keeps the bad effects of estrogen from flourishing.

Along with Testosterone (which we'll talk about next time), elevates libido, increases muscle mass, decreases body fat levels, protects the brain and heart, and fights fibrosis of the internal and reproductive organs.

Natural Progesterone is safe, side effect free and easy to use. It's available without prescription from health food stores. Most post menopausal gals need one application of the cream rubbed onto the breasts and genitalia twice a day about 12 hours apart. Before menopause, women may need one or two applications a day depending on the severity of the estrogen dominance. (Beware of prescription synthetic progesterone, the progestines; they have a slew of bad side effects and cannot be used during pregnancy, whereas natural progesterone made from the Mexican Yam plant has none! Only the natural creams are used by physicians in Europe to prevent miscarriage and for continuous daily application).

Despite the hype for estrogen and soy, the dangers of these products are becoming clearer every day and their victims are increasing in their numbers. The product litigation lawyers are sharpening their knives to go after the Estrogen drug companies like they went after the tobacco corporations. In ten years or less all women (and doctors) will know of the dangers of HRT and estrogen like substances in general.

Why wait, get off the estrogen train before it derails or runs you over.

For further information on Estrogen Dominance read:

What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause by John Lee MD
Hormone Heresy by Sherrill Sellman

Idaho, when your receptor is hormone positive, it DOES NOT mean the hormone is FEEDING the cancer. This is the hardest myth to dispel.

Anyway, to answer Ivorymom, I have been taking progesterone for years.

Dr. Funahashi found that even taking progesterone ALONE increased the uptake of iodine into the cells and helped cells not grow. When iodine was added to progesterone, tumors shrank even more.

Fairy's info collecting has shown that progesterone normalizes the cells by causing programed cell death - apoptosis. This is what we want. Cells are supposed to die of old age. In cancer, they keep growing and living on. Thus far, mainstream medicine's only tool is to kill them, not to let them kill themselves like normal cells. Progesterone assists apoptosis.

I take it in oil from a compound pharmacy but you could just as easily take it in non prescription cream. I rub in on my skin. Dr. David Zava says the absorption rate varies from woman to woman.

Some women take 5 mg. Some take 100 mg because they can't get their saliva levels up with less.

Anomdenet,

You say "when your receptor is hormone positive, it DOES NOT mean the hormone is FEEDING the cancer. This is the hardest myth to dispel." and then don't explain your statement.  I'd be interested to hear why you feel this way.

Soprano

Well crap!  This is from Dixie Mills MD, who is a breast surgeon:

Who should not use natural progesterone cream?

Women with breast cancer or a past history of breast cancer:

This is the only group of women at any age that I advise to avoid using even low doses of transdermal progesterone or Prometrium capsules without consulting with their oncologist beforehand. We simply don't know enough about the outcome either way. It's quite possible that certain tumors may not be affected, but until we know more, I think it is clear that the possible risks could outweigh the benefits here.

Women who note adverse effects with use of natural progesterone:

Some women will metabolize extra progesterone into estrogen - we call these women "highly estrogenic." They tend to respond quickly to supplemental progesterone with increased breast tenderness (particularly during ovulation) and irregular spotting or bleeding. The closer this kind of woman is to menopause, the more cautious she should be with any form of progesterone. With the right medical practitioner and a deep understanding of her whole health picture, it can be possible for such a woman to actually change the way she metabolizes progesterone to make it safe to supplement with bioidentical forms.

Post menopausal women:

Out of an abundance of caution, it is best not to use any form of progestogen, including progesterone, if a woman is more than two years beyond her last period, unless she is on estrogen.

It would also seem most prudent (at this stage of scientific knowledge) for a woman to not take additional hormones, including progesterone, for more than a total of five years. In this case, the reason for avoiding progesterone has more to do with the natural evolution of hormones in the body than with any identifiably increased risk. After menopause, it is natural for your body's estrogen levels to taper off - so, fittingly, should your progesterone levels.

If, however, you are using estrogen and have a uterus, you must also use some form of progestogen to counter the effects of the estrogen on the uterine cells. The use of (bioidentical) Prometrium is recommended for this circumstance, as studies using progesterone cream are conflicting and very few. As with estrogen supplementation, our recommendation is that it be used for a short period and no longer than five years, at least until more information is available.

Here's a link to the full article:

http://www.womentowomen.com/breasthealth/progesteronebreastcancer.aspx

I think this topic is a very important one.  I truly believe in years to come that women will no longer be expected to take aromatise inhibitors or tamoxifen because we already have a natural tool to balance estrogen levels. 

Progesterone is surrounded by a profound lack of attention. I cringe when I see quotes like this from doctors "This is the only group of women at any age (bc patients) that I advise to avoid using even low doses of transdermal progesterone or Prometrium capsules without consulting with their oncologist beforehand. We simply don't know enough about the outcome either way."  To my mind, this is call to action, not a reason to stop testing for pr receptor status! 

I first starting wondering about progesterone when I read Dr Northrup's book on menopause.  In a nutshell,  estrogen is in charge of cells cycling in, progesterone is in charge of cells cycling out.  So.... if there's a tumor and a whole lot of progesterone present, why would it take some medical genius to figure out that maybe that's a good thing?  Progesterone programs cell death.  Tumors are clusters of cells multiplying out of control. 

We are created with bodies designed to heal themselves.  Why is estrogen in the spotlight and not progesterone?  Why are all these educated and smart people so focused on making us taking hormone therapy pills to interfere with estrogen receptors, or shut down estrogen production altogether?  And isn't it beyond time to question why we're being told some of our estrogen is 'bad'?  Our bodies were created to house three types of estrogen, and we're told repeatedly that one of them is 'bad'.  Says who?  Medical experts?  Experts who prescribe pharmaceuticals?  The same pharmaceuticals that cause 100,000 deaths per year, more than twice the death rate of breast cancer?  

And honestly, what would be the point in asking our oncologists about the wisdom of taking progesterone???   The above quote already admits they don't know any helpful answers. In my first year of tamoxifen, I asked the nurse why they don't test my estrogen levels. Her response, "Oh, we only test for things that are cancer-related."  So, I take hormone therapy based on er/pr positive status, but my estrogen levels aren't cancer related and my progesterone levels don't even get on the radar of interest.  Moments later I asked the oncologist directly.   "I don't find the information helpful," was his response. And I'm supposed to seek guidance from a man who doesn't even bother to determine my menopausal status by looking at my estrogen levels as he writes out a refill for tamoxifen?  

I don't know what's going on in the medical politics behind hormone therapy for bc patients, but I do know this -- we need more light on this subject and it won't happen until we have enough voices demanding it.  

I just got this interesting enews from Mercola:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/06/23/The-Real-Reason-Why-Breast-Cancer-is-Plummeting.aspx

It does a good job of explaining HRT vs BHRT.

Well said, anom. The fact is we really do need to do our own homework because our doctors won't or don't have the time. They are sometimes the worst consumers. Since they are taught hours and hours by drug companies, they tend to believe they can solve everything with a pill. There are a lot of great books with information out there that many of us have recommended. Everyone needs to start reading up. I found a lot of books at the library but I tend to purchase books that give me a lot of information because I just keep reading them. They are also the best motivation for me because everytime I read them, it reinforces what I am doing. How I wish I could get my doctors to open their minds. They are doing us all such a disservice.

A very good and informative conversation you ladies have going here...

My tumor was 95% er + and 55% pr+ so Im not sure where I would fall in the scheme of things...

I had a complete hysterectomy, used tamoxiphen for 2 1/2 yrs and recently started Femara, but as will all of you I really dont have a very clear understanding of the er/pr stuff but personally I wasnt willing to take the risk of not using tamox or an AI...I tried to research this exact thing and even started at thread asking "why am I taking this?"

Everything is extremely confusing!!!!

Dawnbelle,

Does your community have a breast cancer support group?  In my experience, my support came from a number of sources, and meeting with local people was most valuable in finding information about doctors (sometimes good and sometimes not so good).  

I went along with conventional treatments mainly because I didn't know other options existed.  Unfortunately, if you want to explore other options, the mainstream doctors will look at you as if you just grew 10 heads.  I had that happen when I chose breast surgeons in New Orleans.  With hindsight, travelling for surgery was the best treatment decision I made that entire year, but I'll tell you what, my local doctors scared me half to death when I told them I wanted diep reconstruction.  They'd never even heard of it, even though it's very successful with an ever growing record of success.  

I imagine a lot of things have changed even since I had treatments.  Compare notes with people here at the same place you are right now, and get connected with support locally.  It sounds like you have an inquisitive mind.  Some doctors are comfortable with that, others will think you're a nutcase if you even mention the internet. If you're keen on alternative treatments, you might want to take a look at the threads about iodine.  

Spring, it looks like progesterone is protective.  You HAVE to read Dr. Lee's book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Breast Cancer - How Hormone Balance Can Help Save Your Life", its the most amazing, incredible book and explains everything in detail, he pulls no punches in it, he is passionate about the power of progesterone.  I am "this" close to starting progesterone supplementation with the topical cream, just waiting for confirmation from my naturopath on dosage........I noticed from my hormone tests that my progesterone is loooowww......interesting!

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What evidence did your doctor produce AGAINST progesterone?

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Deanna, if your onc keeps changing her mind, it sounds like she is just reading different info because she knows you are! Maybe you should get her a copy of Dr. Lee's book? Or Dr. Uzzi Reiss who is from LA?

Thanks, ladies.  I must admit, I was a bit dejected after my app't. with her today.  The last time I saw her, she was all for IP3, Curcumin, Green Tea Extract, etc.  In fact, she told me to get them, as well as RX'ing another natural vitamin product.  She'd also written me an RX for Evista -- primarily (or so I thought) to address osteopenia.  I haven't started the Evista yet, and she was a bit upset with me -- saying it wasn't good for me to be "unprotected" (meaning not taking the Evista for bc prevention, which I thought was its secondary benefit) for a long period.  I thought the other stuff I'm doing -- plus a significant amount of exercise -- was my protection.  Then she shot down 2 of the 3 natural things I asked her about -- the progesterone and also iodine.  She was more open to the 2:16 estrogen ratio testing I asked her about (I'd brought a print out on that), and even asked me if I could find her any study regarding it.  

Anyway, I'll read those 2 books myself before bringing it up with her again.  Unfortunately, I wasn't well prepared to discuss these topics with her, and she was unexpectedly negative when when I asked if she was familiar with any of them.    Deanna