Topic: Vitamin C infusion....I need your help!

Hi, Rachel ~  I think you have to do what you believe in your heart is right for your body.  I know sometimes it's difficult and confusing to even get to that self-knowing place when you are bombarded with conflicting opinions from knowlegeable sources.  But, we are not all alike -- and what works for me may not work for you, and that is one of the basic problems with traditional medicine -- they view everyone as the same.

I've taken a high-quality, sustained release Vitamin C supplement for 30+ years.  Towards the end of my chemo, I read that Vitamin C may prevent the chemo from working as well, so I stopped it -- and promptly came down with near-pneumonia that I couldn't shake for many weeks.  I still don't know which was worse -- taking C with chemo, or how sick I got when I got off of it.

I can see maybe not wanting you on massive doses of C (like infusions) during chemo.  But I'm not sure about C "feeding" cancer.  Do you have a naturopathic doctor?   Any doctor obviously has to know your specific hx, dx & supplement regimen to advise you, but I would be really curious what a naturopathic or integrative doctor who is well-versed in bc would advise you to do, and why.      Deanna     

This is what troubles me I am not on Chemo right now...I am on tamofxin and zometa. My Onc. made me promise I would stop my Vit. C.....She believes that the tamoxfin is what is making me feel better...I believe it is the Vit. C.... Family and Friends said I looked great and I have had so much energy since the Vit. C. I did not take the Vit. C this week so we will see.

very confusing...

Thank you for all your feedback!

rpailleret - you do have to follow your heart and go in the direction that feels right for you. I can tell you that I do Vit C infusions and go to a center that treats many cancer patients with Vit C and other vitamin infusions. There are many studies that will show (such as the ones Deanna pulled) that vitamin C kills cancer cells. And, it does not feed cancer. In fact, there are studies that show that if taken with chemo, IV C enhances the treatment and reduces chemo's side effects.

I too went to Sloan and my experience there was that they have one "standard of care" and everyone they treat is treated to that standard. They are skilled surgeons and their doctors do a lot of research but not relating to nutrition. I had a similiar experience with my surgeon at Sloan. When I told her that I changed my diet and was doing IV C, she discouraged it, but did not know anything about it. She admitted that there is a link between breast cancers and nutrition but did not recommend that I change my diet. The focus for them is treating the disease to the same standard of care for all. And, doctors are afraid of being sued if they don't offer the "standard of care"! They don't look at possible causes or prevention of recurrence.

I would highly recommend that you see a naturopath who works with cancer patients before you make your final decision. Weigh all of your options and then make an informed decision about the best path to take. Where do you live?

Rachel,

I live in NJ too and the center I go to is right in NY state. If you PM me, I will give you the information if you are interested.

Best of Luck,

Deni

Does anyone have any information regarding the Issels Treatment Center in Mexico? I have to opportunity to go.....It is very expensive and I want to make sure once again that I have made the right decision.

I would love to talk to anyone who has information on this.

anomdenet,

MSK onc asked me to stop all my supplement!! She went on to say this would further damage my liver. I have a liver biopsy scheduled in a few weeks. I have some pain on the right side(it come and goes) So I stopped my supplements, stopped the vit. C (for now) and I feel horriable.

So all your imput is really helping me! I thought I did a lot of research on this, but I need to continue.

Hugs,

Rachel

rpailleret - I was also told by my oncologist to not take large dose's of antioxidants including one that is a grape seed pine bark combo, which I complied with, however I am in the process of reading a book that might assist you in your decision. "Life Over Cancer" by Keith I Block, M. D. he does not support the concept that antioxidants should not be taken, but you should read his book and get all the data from the horses mouth if you will. Dr Block is an Integrative Oncologist, in my humble opinion is the best of both worlds, standard oncology with supplements that support and help your body battle Cancer.  There is a center in Evanston IL, you might be able to speak to them, here is the web address: http://www.blockmd.com/  Feel free to PM if you need to!  Good luck!  Wishing you success in you battle with cancer!

rachel, I just bumped up a thread I started after reading Ray Strand's book on nutritional medicine.  You might find it pertinent to your situation and give you encouragement to continue looking for a doctor more suited to your needs.  Most mainstream doctors receive little, if ANY, training on nutritional medicine.  They're trained how to detect disease and then manage it with pharmaceuticals. I didn't even take supplements back when I received treatments, so it was a nonissue for me.  If I had an oncologist poo poo my desire to take supplements today, I'd be looking elsewhere. 

Options are out there.  You'll need to be diligent, though, to go outside the standard protocol.   fwiw, you might want to ask that doctor if she's required to make the recommendations she proposes.  I'd guess that she's quoting standard protocol.  Doctors are pulled in a lot of directions and may not be free to say what they really believe if it differs from 'protocol.' 

Anyone have any thoughts on the use of Vit C intravenous to help prevent recurrance, done after all other treatments are finished?  How much Vit C and how often?

TImothy - I use IV C as part of my treatment plan. Other than surgery, I did no other treatments. But, there are plenty of folks who go to the center I go to that have. I have heard many stories of success from people I meet there. You need to find a good ND who can administer them and guide you through dosages etc.

In bacteria, some cells need oxygen (aerobic) and some cells do not need oxygen and are even destroyed by oxygen (anaerobic).

In multicullular organisms such as humans, aerobic refers to the way a cell metabolizes sugars.  If you do not have enough oxygen, the body switches to anaerobic metabolism (fermentation).  If you feel sore the day after exercising a lot, this is the reason.  The body used an alternative pathway for energy producing lactic acid, and the body needs to clean out the waste products.

In aerobic respiration, the glucose in the bloodstream and cells combines with oxygen to transfer energy to ADP, producing ATP, the energy carriers in the cell.

In humans, aerobic and anaerobic do not refer to different kinds of cells, but the pathway a cell uses dependent upon its oxygen supply and energy needs.  Cells can switch between the two metabolic pathways, aerobic and anaerobic..

All this information can be found in any good college biology text.

I thought all carbohydrates turn into sugar that your body can use.  So would this mean a no-carb diet in order to starve the cancer of its sugar fix?  Near impossible to live this way.  Everything in moderation - sugar and alcohol included.

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With all due respect: 

I have no idea what that phrase, "everything in moderation," means. In my experience the phrase is only used to stop conversation without offering any suggestion.

Why would anybody want to moderately address their cancer?

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LJ13-2, that is precisely my point - that you can not eliminate all carbohydrates from your diet without having an adverse impact on your health, not to mention the quality of your life.  For me, eating is a huge enjoyment in my life.  I am at a healthy weight, exercise (even through this intense chemo regimen), and do not want to obsess about food after this chemo is done in a year. I understand though how it can give people comfort to proactively control their cancer by eliminating certain foods.  At least its something they can control with this dreadful disease.  It's just that all food except proteins and fats turns into glucose so it is impossible to eliminate glucose from your diet.  I think I read excess protein turns into glucose and fat. So how would you eat with this diet?  I am open minded, but skeptical.

We're way off topic on the vitamin C infusion start.  On the subject of sugar "feeding" cancer, I wonder if this statement, while it may not technically be any more correct than sugars feeding the function of all cells, the recent research suggesting the possibility that insulin impacting drugs like glucophage might reduce recurrance and that women with higher insulin levels have more likelihood of recurrance, might be a backdoor route or mechanism by which refined sugars, resulting in elevated insulin levels, might impact recurrance.  They are currently researching the impact of insulin modifying drugs on recurrance and its the subject of a new clinical trial.  So I wouldn't rule out altogether that sugar might not play a role, despite it not being precise that its "feeds" cancer.  I'm just saying, keep an open mind.