I wanted to start a separate thread for this topic because every time I go to look at what has been posted on other threads, I end up going through hundres of post to get what I am looking for.
First I am not clear on exactly what "balanced" means. Balance with testosterone, progesterone or what . Can someone who has been down this road longer than me please explain what you have learned so far
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fairy49 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,001 |
Sep 25, 2009 06:25 pm
fairy49 wrote:
Hi Merilee! Estridiol Estrone Estriol Progesterone Testosterone DHEA SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) 16 Hydroxyestrone 2 Hydroxyestrone 2:16 Hydroxyestrone Ratio Free Androgen Index Based on the information gathered from the blood test, it showed that my progesterone was super low, so I am supplementing with progesterone, my 2:16 ratio was off, my 16 hydroxyestrone (the bad stuff) was too high, and my 2 hydroxyestrone too low (the good stuff), so I am on supplements to improve the ratio. So in my mind, the purpose of balancing is to make sure that the bad estrogens are not dominant in your system, which is what causes problems. Estrogen is not bad for you, its only bad when its not counteracted by your other hormones which will keep you healthy. I hope that makes sense, please let me know if it doesn't!! Lorraine ox DX 9-22-08 IDC 1.1cm Stage 1 Grade 2 SNB 0/5 ER+ PR+ HER- Bi-Lat Mas re-con,tissue expanders on 10/29 - Exchange to silicone implants on 3/6/09 Oncotype DX Score 9 - BRCA 1 & 2 Negative.....If God brings you to it, he WILL get you through it
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PS73 Joined: May 2009 Posts: 236 |
Sep 25, 2009 06:29 pm
PS73 wrote:
Lorraine, you are my hero :) "Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense”
Diagnosis: 4/24/2009, 2cm, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2+ |
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Merilee Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 622 |
Sep 25, 2009 07:16 pm, edited Sep 25, 2009 07:36 PM
by Merilee
Merilee wrote:
Ok that helps. I did not get the 16/2 checked so I will ask for that. Now what would a good ratio be? And is the 2/16 the estrone and the estsriol? Once you get the numbers, how do you figure the ratio? My lab results only list Estrone and estadiol. They all fell in the reference range but I wonder if there is a different reference range for BC survivors. Testosterone, Progesterone and DHEA also fell in the reference range. Diagnosis: 1/9/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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fairy49 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,001 |
Sep 25, 2009 11:32 pm
fairy49 wrote:
Merilee, 2 hydroxyestrone is a metabolite of estrone, and is the good estrogen, it represents a beneficial direction in estrogen metabolism its also called 2-OHE1, it implies a balanced metabolism. 16 hydroxyestrone, another metabolite of estrone, but is associated with estrogen-dependent diseases, like lupus and BC. Normal or low levels are best. The 2 should be between 112-656 pg/ml and the 16 should be between 213 and 680, at least they are the reference ranges, however 2 should always be higher than 16, creating the beneficial ratio, so the ratio should be between 0.40 and 1.40. The higher the ratio the less association there is with estrogen dependent diseases, and the more likely it is that you will have a benefical hormone metabolism. My onc and obgyn never considered any of these hormones, made no sense to me that this wouldn't be looked at...........I don't think the reference range is different for us, I think we were all whacked out BEFORE bc, that is why it happened, but thats just my opinion, I am not a doctor, but with all I have read, its making more and more sense!! PS73, your post made me cry.......we are all heros here, its such a battle, every day, to find the answers and be at peace with all of our choices. L ox DX 9-22-08 IDC 1.1cm Stage 1 Grade 2 SNB 0/5 ER+ PR+ HER- Bi-Lat Mas re-con,tissue expanders on 10/29 - Exchange to silicone implants on 3/6/09 Oncotype DX Score 9 - BRCA 1 & 2 Negative.....If God brings you to it, he WILL get you through it
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dlb823 Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,055 |
Sep 25, 2009 11:39 pm
dlb823 wrote:
Wow, Lorraine! You really know this stuff! I'm impressed! Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation. And, Merilee -- great idea to start a separate thread! Deanna "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears" Native American proverb
Diagnosis: 2/1/2008, 1cm, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 1/16 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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fairy49 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,001 |
Sep 25, 2009 11:48 pm
fairy49 wrote:
Deanna! Its been a long process of learning, I always felt in my gut, that there was so much more to this whole estrogen thing, so just took it upon myself to learn as much as I could, I feel so blessed to have such a wonderful place to share with all of you amazing women! Thanks Merilee for starting the thread! L ox DX 9-22-08 IDC 1.1cm Stage 1 Grade 2 SNB 0/5 ER+ PR+ HER- Bi-Lat Mas re-con,tissue expanders on 10/29 - Exchange to silicone implants on 3/6/09 Oncotype DX Score 9 - BRCA 1 & 2 Negative.....If God brings you to it, he WILL get you through it
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Merilee Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 622 |
Sep 26, 2009 02:04 pm
Merilee wrote:
I feel blessed to have found this site as well. It has been my best support. I need help getting over my resentment of my first ONC. She never tested my hormones, never tested to see if I would metabalize the tamoxifen, and never even mentioned that there is a blood test for tumor markers that would detect a potential problem in its earliest stages.Just continued to use scare tactics to try and get me to stay on the Tamoxifen... even after told her I had lost the hearing in my left ear, my vision had dramaticlly decreased, and that I felt like I was being poisoned. Even then she did not mention the test to see if I wa metabalizing it. Shame on her! On monday I will go back to my DO and ask for the 2/16 test and the tumor marker test. Diagnosis: 1/9/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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PS73 Joined: May 2009 Posts: 236 |
Sep 26, 2009 06:35 pm
PS73 wrote:
:) Lorraine. Could I call your ND? I would love their input. I don't feel that supressing my hormones is the right thing to do. It just doesn't make sense to me which is why Im nixing the tamoxifen. I have been looking for an alternative to this that makes sense, Im looking for someone who specializes in hormones. ..it really seems like you have done your homework on the subject - could you rec any books on the subject? Some say DIM some say Iodine, I just want a balanced system and whatever it takes, Ill do it. ..speaking of hormones, my puppy is now humping his favorite blue towel (I think this house has had too many hormones on the brain lately). "Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense”
Diagnosis: 4/24/2009, 2cm, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2+ |
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fairy49 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,001 |
Sep 26, 2009 06:58 pm
fairy49 wrote:
PS73 - that was so funny!! I had a mental picture LOL!! My ND MAY do phone consults, I am not too sure, but you can definately check, I will PM you her info. The books to read to start with, would be "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Breast Cancer, How Hormone Balance Can Save Your Life" Dr. John Lee and "Breakthrough" by Suzanne Somers. Both are amazing books, and really opened my eyes. In the back of Suzanne Somers book, she lists the doctors specializing in hormones by state, which should really help. L ox DX 9-22-08 IDC 1.1cm Stage 1 Grade 2 SNB 0/5 ER+ PR+ HER- Bi-Lat Mas re-con,tissue expanders on 10/29 - Exchange to silicone implants on 3/6/09 Oncotype DX Score 9 - BRCA 1 & 2 Negative.....If God brings you to it, he WILL get you through it
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Merilee Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 622 |
Sep 26, 2009 07:13 pm
Merilee wrote:
Fairy Can you please check the back of that book and look for Lansing Mi? I am having trouble tracking down what I need here. Diagnosis: 1/9/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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Merilee Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 622 |
Nov 7, 2009 03:23 pm
Merilee wrote:
For those of you who have been to the bioidentical docs already, can you please share what your Progesterone numbers where to consider them Low? Mine were 9.21 ng/ML 5 days before my period. The range for that time frame is 4.44- 28.03. While I am in the range, I wonder about being so close to the low end. Do you think this may indicate a mild estrogen dominance? Also my DHEA was 105 and the range is 35-430, I was at less than the 50 percentile...I can't wait to see the doc and get answers to all of these questions. If anyone knows more than me I would appreciate a chime in. Diagnosis: 1/9/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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Mom_of_boys… Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 520 |
Nov 7, 2009 05:39 pm, edited Nov 7, 2009 05:50 PM
by Mom_of_boys
Mom_of_boys wrote:
My progesterone level... per my just-received result... was 0.6 pg/mL. Keep in mind, since my ooph in January, I am now post-menopausal. Diagnosis: 12/5/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage II, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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Merilee Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 622 |
Nov 7, 2009 05:51 pm
Merilee wrote:
Thank you Mom_of_ boys Diagnosis: 1/9/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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Barbeqrn Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 193 |
Nov 11, 2009 01:22 pm
Barbeqrn wrote:
Lorraine Qx Could you tell me everything you take supplement wise....I feel behind in all of these studies and would like to get started taking nutritional supplements! Thanks Barb Diagnosis: 4/20/2007, IDC, <1cm, Stage II, Grade 1, 1/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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fairy49 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,001 |
Nov 11, 2009 07:33 pm
fairy49 wrote:
Barb! Here you go!! Green Tea Extract Fiber over 40grams per day DIM Omega 3 Fish Oil CoQ10 Curcumin/Tumeric Selenium Vit D-3 Iodine Vit C Calcium D-Glucarate Calcium D-Glucarate is a relatively common nutrient found in many fruits and vegetables. Many believe that this nutrient aids the body in the elimination of many harmful substances and helps to lower abnormally high levels of steroid hormones including estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone. Both of these effects may help to protect against the development of certain tumors Metanx Vitamin A Vitamin E (liquid) Biotin Betaine Boron Glutamic Acid Hesperidin Inositol L-Phenylalanine L-Tyrosine Grape Seed Extract Alpha Lipoic Acid DMAE Progesterone (2 weeks on 2 weeks off) Organic as much as I can! Run 5 x a week DX 9-22-08 IDC 1.1cm Stage 1 Grade 2 SNB 0/5 ER+ PR+ HER- Bi-Lat Mas re-con,tissue expanders on 10/29 - Exchange to silicone implants on 3/6/09 Oncotype DX Score 9 - BRCA 1 & 2 Negative.....If God brings you to it, he WILL get you through it
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Barbeqrn Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 193 |
Nov 11, 2009 08:20 pm
Barbeqrn wrote:
WOW! How do you get all of those in? Do you ever get nauseous? I am writing all of these down and will get some! Thank you so much for you time in this! The progesterone is through your doctor, right? I will find a bioidentical hormone specialist and get some blood work done. Diagnosis: 4/20/2007, IDC, <1cm, Stage II, Grade 1, 1/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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Nan Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 25 |
Nov 14, 2009 09:40 pm
Nan wrote:
fairy49, Finally! Someone who is telling the women that estrogen is not bad for you but... sweetie...you have it all together!! and I quote... "Estrogen is not bad for you, its only bad when its not counteracted by your other hormones which will keep you healthy." I have made a few posts here on this site, and recently they been in the alternative forum. My daughter Lori (47 now), was dx with TNBC in June of 2007, had chemo and rads, and now is on BHRT. I just read of all the vitamins/supplements that you are taking and it sounds like Lori's list! She is also on the Anticancer diet by Servan-Schreiber. As I said in another post, she knew in her heart if she did not do this that she would have been dx with mets by now. What people fail to understand is that when your hormones are not balanced as nature would balance them, you are going to have serious problems or worse...diseases like cancer. Why are people so reluctant to take BHRT and yet will allow their doctors to prescribe the synthetic HRT and take drugs which just compound the problems? Have you read Somers new book Knockout? That will really open your eyes! I read The Sexy Years, Ageless, and Breakthrough but this one is the best! I hope you all do not mind if I drop in from time to time. I have been posting on the TNBC site for over 27 months, and it was just recently that the Alternative thread was added. (Not really a forum). No one wants to hear what my daughter is doing, and yet she is probably the only one who is doing well, and is feeling like she is in her thirties. I haven't read all of you posts fairy49, but are you going to an antiaging specialist like Lori? Nan |
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fairy49 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,001 |
Nov 15, 2009 11:33 am
fairy49 wrote:
Hi Nan! Thanks! I am going to a naturopathic MD, she is getting my hormones in balance, I wished I would have known all of this years ago.......I have always been estrogen dominant, I just didn't know it!! I am a huge fan of SS and love her books. Please keep coming back onto this forum, the ladies here are figuring it out and its awesome! L ox DX 9-22-08 IDC 1.1cm Stage 1 Grade 2 SNB 0/5 ER+ PR+ HER- Bi-Lat Mas re-con,tissue expanders on 10/29 - Exchange to silicone implants on 3/6/09 Oncotype DX Score 9 - BRCA 1 & 2 Negative.....If God brings you to it, he WILL get you through it
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Merilee Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 622 |
Nov 19, 2009 05:25 am, edited Nov 19, 2009 05:28 AM
by Merilee
Merilee wrote:
Well, I finally got my lab reports back and need some help figuring out the 2/16. Under the 25-hydroxey section it says total 50.5 which appears t be midrange. Later down the page it is broken up in to 25-Hydoxy D2, and 25-Hydorxy D3. Is the D3 the 16 part? My D2 is 9.4 and my D3 is 41.1So is that 9.4/41.1 or 41.1/9.4? to get the 2/16 ratio? Sorry never was good at math LOL. Any help would be appreciated Also are the norm ranges that are on lab tests the same as optimal ranges used by docs who are helping with hormone balancing? |
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fairy49 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,001 |
Nov 19, 2009 10:09 am
fairy49 wrote:
Hi Merilee! The 2 hydroxyestrone and the 16 hydroxyestrone should be listed seperately from the 25 hydroxy, they are not the same thing. Can you see them anywhere on the report? DX 9-22-08 IDC 1.1cm Stage 1 Grade 2 SNB 0/5 ER+ PR+ HER- Bi-Lat Mas re-con,tissue expanders on 10/29 - Exchange to silicone implants on 3/6/09 Oncotype DX Score 9 - BRCA 1 & 2 Negative.....If God brings you to it, he WILL get you through it
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ivorymom Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 764 |
Nov 19, 2009 10:13 am
ivorymom wrote:
Merilee, I may be all wet but I think the 25-Hydroxy D2 & D3 is about Vit D levels, not about estrogen. You add the D2 and D3 together - you've got pretty decent Vit D levels (mine was a total of 21 when tested right after dx). meg
Diagnosis: 2/8/2009, IDC, <1cm, Stage Ib, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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Mom_of_boys… Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 520 |
Nov 19, 2009 10:20 am
Mom_of_boys wrote:
Merilee... my CNP said that the norm ranges on the report generally lag way behind the research and therefore optimal levels. Diagnosis: 12/5/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage II, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- |
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Nan Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 25 |
Nov 19, 2009 11:59 pm, edited Nov 20, 2009 12:00 AM
by Nan
Nan wrote:
Merilee, I posted many links a day or 2 ago from the Viamin D council, and here are 2 more which may help you.You want your D3 levels to be at least in the 80's. My daughter Lori (dx with TNBC in 2007) has finally gotten her levels to 82.6, and her GYN said they can be higher. I will look for my D level test tomorrow and see exactly what it says, as I know I had the correct test, and my levels are 66. If your tests were done by Quest they can be incorrect. Nan http://www.easy-immune-health.com/Normal-Vitamin-D-level.html http://ontrackreading.com/the-diet-piece/vitamin-d3-questions/ |
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