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Topic: Numbing Spray for Port Banned by Joint Commission

Forum: Stage IV and Metastatic Breast Cancer ONLY — A place for those managing the ups & downs of a Stage IV/metastatic breast cancer diagnosis. Please respect that this forum is for Stage IV members only or those posting on behalf of a Stage IV patient. There is a separate forum for Stage IV Caregivers/Family in "Support and Community Connections".

Posted on: Oct 20, 2008 04:10PM

TripleNeg wrote:

The Joint Commission, a certification body for hospital accreditation, recently banned lidocaine ( i.e. freezy spray) for port access at the hospital I go to and receive chemo. The lab has to use a 20 gauge 1 1/2 inch needle to access my port because it's flipped on it's side. It's the mack daddy of port needles.

I don't know if the spray helped or not but psychologically it did the trick. Now without it, I'm a big baby... I hold my breath, turn away, clinch the arms of the chair, close my eyes tight and the whole dramatic acadmey award thing.... I have even cursed (which I'm not a saint but I usually reserve that language for my closet friends when I'm really angry).

Anyone else find the freezy spray helpful? What else can be used? God is able, stephanie

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Posts 1 - 21 (21 total)

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Oct 20, 2008 04:18PM Watson wrote:

Steph,

I have never used srpay, but I use the prescription Emla cream which is licodocanie and something else.  You put it on an hour before being stuck and you feel nothing.  I will have chemo again this Thursday and see what they have to say about it.  Ask your onc about it!

Watson

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. - Billy Joel

Dx 1/29/2008, Stage IV, mets, ER-/PR-, HER2+
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Oct 20, 2008 04:25PM LuAnnH wrote:

I never got used to any of these agents because my onc will not allow them.  the rerason for that is that it is hard to find out if a port is broken when those products are used.  When a port if broken alot of times the patient can feel something not right and alerts them to the port problems.

Sorry to her this for those of you that use them.

LuAnn --

Dx 7/2/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Oct 20, 2008 05:08PM mimi1030 wrote:

My mom doesn't get any of that when she goes for infusions but she has the power port so not sure what size the needle is that they insert, but they don't numb it before hand, so not sure what these things are...it doesn't seem to hurt her though when they access the port for chemo....

Hope you are doing well steph!

Hugs Michelle

My mom was dx 8/2004 DCIS with 4mm of IDC, Stage 1, 0 Nodes, Grade 1, Her2+++ cancer. Left side mastectomy with 4 rounds A/C. 9/2007 Mets to Liver and Bones. 2/28/10 craniotomy confirm brain mets 3/1/10 begun Tykerb 3/15/10 WBR and Xeloda.

Dx 9/29/2007, IDC, <1cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+Surgery 11/12/2004 Mastectomy (Left); Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left); Reconstruction: TRAM flap (Left)Chemotherapy 11/14/2004 Adriamycin, Taxol, XelodaTargeted Therapy 01/23/2010 TykerbRadiation Therapy 02/09/2010 External
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Oct 20, 2008 07:15PM Watson wrote:

I have the power port and they use the same size needles as regular ports.  Mine is a little deep so they use the 1inch one. I think the normal is 3/4 inch.

It's not a horrible pain if you don't use the numbing agents, its like getting a shot.  I have never been a weenie when it comes to shots or needles but now I try to avoid any sticks!  MD Anderson better not stop letting me use the Emla, I love it!

Watson

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. - Billy Joel

Dx 1/29/2008, Stage IV, mets, ER-/PR-, HER2+
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Oct 20, 2008 07:45PM CalGal wrote:

Hi Stefanie -

I'VE GOT A BETTER OPTION THAN THAT FREEZING SPRAY! Smile

The chemo nurses used to use that freeze spray numbing stuff on me ...

Luckily, one of the chemo nurses mentioned that that tends to damage the skin and asked if I was interested in a numbing cream.   I had never heard of it.  

The chemo nurse wrote a prescription for me .. and although it is Lidocaine and Prilocaine CREAM, 2.5% ... I bet it's considered much different than the spray containing Lidocaine.  it is great!   I love it!  So much better than that horrible freezing spray.

Directions say to put it on 1 hour before chemo, but I've learned that applying it 2 hours ahead works much better for me!   I do not feel the needle stick, only pressure!   However, when I tried using it only an hour before, it helped, but the stick still hurt.

Best to you,

CalGal

Trip Neg, BRCA1, Mets dx 12/05 despite 2 cm tumor & clear nodes at orig dx 9/04.. Liver, lung & one bone met.

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Oct 20, 2008 08:01PM golfer779 wrote:

Stephanie, I too had very good luck with Emla Cream.  I would apply it about an 1 1/2 hour before accesssing my port.  I would put the cream on pretty thick, then covered it with saran wrap to keep it off of my clothes and on my skin.  Good luck ... Carol

PS . It is prescription so you may want to call you doc for a scrip.

Carol ... Currently taking Femara and had a DIEP Jan 2010

Dx 10/3/2007, ILC, 3cm, Stage IIb, Grade 1, 3/34 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Oct 20, 2008 08:15PM Watson wrote:

Cal Gal is talking about the same stuff, Emla cream.  It is prescription but there is also otc stuff but you have to ask the pharmacist for it.  I don't think it's as strong.

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. - Billy Joel

Dx 1/29/2008, Stage IV, mets, ER-/PR-, HER2+
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Oct 20, 2008 09:10PM jeanne46 wrote:

I have used the Emla cream, too.  It works really well.  Numbs the whole area.  You must apply it about two hours before your stick (just put a blob on top of the port).  I keep it in place by putting some of that sticky saran wrap on top of the cream - which also protects clothes. I have a Bard power port, also, and they use a longer needle to access the port.  Lately I haven't been using anything.  It does make a difference if your chemo nurse is good with needles.

Dx 12/05, Stage IV, Grade 3 ER-/PR-Her2- YOU NEVER KNOW HOW STRONG YOU ARE UNTIL BEING STRONG IS THE ONLY OPTION YOU HAVE. -anonymous

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Oct 20, 2008 09:11PM, edited Oct 20, 2008 09:11PM by CalGal


Guess I'm getting the generic stuff!

So far, the chemo nurses have provided me with this outstanding bandage.  

The bandage seems to be designed for this ...  You peel it, put it on, then peel off the "unflexibe" border.   At treatment, the chemo nurse will peel it off (I usually do it since, they have gloves on and it's difficult for them to start taking it off).

Bandage:

3M Tegaderm-HP

#9534HP

Transparent Film Dressing Frame Style

2 3/8" x 2 3/4"

CalGal

Trip Neg, BRCA1, Mets dx 12/05 despite 2 cm tumor & clear nodes at orig dx 9/04.. Liver, lung & one bone met.

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Oct 20, 2008 10:34PM Kerry1000 wrote:

I second the Tegaderm idea; saran wrap never worked for me - always came off and then I could feel the stick.  You can buy the Tegaderm patches at any drugstore (you may need to ask for it), or your chemo nurse may give you some. I never felt a thing when I used lidocane, without it I was sometimes quite uncomfortable.

Dx 4/19/2006, IDC, <1cm, Stage IIa, Grade 3, 1/5 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+
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Oct 20, 2008 11:36PM SunshineSmiles wrote:

I have a different approach for using the Emla cream-- I just got the idea to put a plastic bottle cap over the port and cream, taping it with a criss-cross of tape.  The bottle cap holds the cream in place without it getting squished or sliding around under the plastic wrap.  I had a couple of instances where the cream moved and the needle HURT!  Make sure you find a bottle cap that doesn't have the little plastic connectors on it from being broken free of the ring, like on a water bottle.  I have found that some milk  or cream cartons have the ones that are smooth.  Works like a charm, and it just fits over the bump of my port.

Hope this helps!

Susan 

"Never, never, never give up" - Sir Winston Churchill - - Age 43, orig dx 5/2005 Stage III;

Dx 11/22/2007, ILC, Stage IV, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Oct 21, 2008 01:40AM jerseymaria wrote:

i also use the lidocaine creme  with that other stuff.  i have fibro so sticks are very painful for me (cause i'm no baby, lol)  onc gave me a script.  i put it on 1 1/2 to 2 hours before and just feel the pressure.  use in on a good size area so i'm covered if they stretch the skin and then just put one of those small adhesive pads over it.  easy breezy.

Dx 2/27/2006, 3cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, 9/25 nodes, mets, ER-/PR-, HER2+
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Oct 21, 2008 07:14AM kimmytoo wrote:

my hospital uses an 'ethyl chloride' spray which is manufactured by a company called Gebauer.  They just used it yesterday, so it must still be ok to use.

Dx 8/25/2003, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, Grade 2, 12/20 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Oct 21, 2008 08:44PM tropicmom wrote:

I have never used anything. They don't even offer it at the hospital where I go. It really doesn't hurt much, or for long. Less, actually then a shot.

Dx 1/2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Oct 21, 2008 11:14PM alancer wrote:

I had the spray and it streamed out instead of a mist, it burned so bad and they had to keep spraying and spraying and it burned and burned and it was to turn white and i still felt the needle, i finally got my onc to give me the cream which worked great and felt a little pressure.  i think the cream is better than the spray.

If God has brought you to it, he will get you through it

Dx 8/30/2008, 2cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, 17/17 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Oct 22, 2008 12:02AM AlaskaDeb wrote:

I have tried 2 different types of sprays, the stuff moms put on baby's teeth  while they are coming in and a the Emlia cream from my doc.  I don't feel enough pain to care enough to put it on....My port is very near the scar from my 1st surgery, so there is not much sensation in that area.

Deb C

http://glassylady41.spaces.live.com/

Dx 2/29/2008, IDC, 3cm, Stage IV, Grade 2, 27/32 nodes, mets, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Oct 22, 2008 08:33PM TripleNeg wrote:

I did chemo so my counts must have recovered. I got the prescription from my Doctor. He prescribed Elma cream. I try it I think someone said two days before treatment. Thanks for the leads. God is able, stephanie

"The girl who became emotionally distraught, and wavered at each new set of circumstances is now grown up, a woman who has learned to rely on God's sovereignty" Joni Eareckson Tada

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Oct 22, 2008 09:12PM GEECH wrote:

Has anyone had to have a port put in for the second time?  I had a port 2 years ago which drove me nuts and I will most likely have to get another one soon because of mets.  I had a hard time trying  to sleep with the first one.  I also used Emla cream with that one and it worked great.

Take care,

Geech 

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Oct 22, 2008 11:03PM Watson wrote:

Steph,

You put the Emla cream on two HOURS before chemo, not days.Kiss

Watson

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. - Billy Joel

Dx 1/29/2008, Stage IV, mets, ER-/PR-, HER2+
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Oct 23, 2008 02:37AM TripleNeg wrote:

Oh ok thanks watson Laughing... I was still on the tail end of chemo drugs and airy headed. Thanks again for your help. God is able, stephanie

"The girl who became emotionally distraught, and wavered at each new set of circumstances is now grown up, a woman who has learned to rely on God's sovereignty" Joni Eareckson Tada

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Oct 23, 2008 09:53AM LuAnnH wrote:

Geech I had on put in in 1999 and removed it as soon as chemo was done.  It was downright miserable.  I cried when they told me I need a knew one.  This one is great, the kind you hear people talking about that don't bother.  The only time I hate it is when  my grandsons little hands find it as I am rocking them.  It is just the perfect size for their tiny little hands.  Otherwise I have to say the 2nd time around was certainly alot better

LuAnn --

Dx 7/2/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+