Topic: Soy in foods

Nov 29, 2012 12:01 PM SelenaWolf wrote:

At some point, we all have to make choices about what we feel comfortable with.  For myself, personally, I feel that a "moderation is all things" approach is acceptable.  I recognize the scientifically-proven link between alcohol consumption and breast cancer risks, so I've reduced my intake substantially.  However, once-in-awhile, I still indulge in a chilled glass of wine.  This is what I'm comfortable with, but someone else might not be.

You will find tons of "do this" "don't do that" articles out there.  You will find information on "cancer-fighting foods" and "cancer causing foods".  You will dig up data on foods with phytoestrogens (a "don't") and theories about creating an "alkaline" body environment (a "do").  It can get a little crazy and overwhelming.

I think that, when articles talk about "do's" and "don'ts", there is a lot of generalization.  And I've always felt that many of the "don'ts" we read about cannot be proven scientifically or, at least, to anyone's satisfaction.  For every "do", you'll find a conflicting "don't".

Personally - again, my opinion only! - I don't think small amounts of soy are an issue.  I could be wrong, but my impression is that the studies are targeting diets that contain a great deal of soy products.  Again, some of the information is conflicting and unconclusive and some of the information very strongly shows that soy products should be avoided.

I don't think there is a comprehensive list here (again, I could be wrong), but many of the ladies here have made personal decisions based on what they feel comfortable with.  Some things are hard- and fast rules: don't smoke; don't drink more than 1-2 alcoholic drinks a week OR don't drink period; keep your weight within normal ranges; and exercise.  The jury is still out on the sugar issue: that is, currently, being researched via the Metformin clinical trial, which should wrap up in 2017.  I think large amounts of soy on a daily basis is, perhaps, unwise until it is proven conclusively one way or another that it is safe (or not).  Some women avoid certain plastics and products with parabens or estrogens, but there are some women here who've been given the "go ahead" by their oncologist's to use a topical cream with estrogen in it to ease menopausal vaginal atrophy because 1) the estrogen is not being ingested, and 2) the estrogen levels in the cream are so low as to be negligable.

This is something you should discuss with your oncologist or a nutritionist/dietician or a naturopath if it really concerns you.

Nov 30, 2012 08:34 AM, edited Nov 30, 2012 08:41 AM by SelenaWolf

And, to add to Blessings point about a healthy diet: this is something that is going to improve your health overall.  The items she brought up "... eat a variety of fresh, healthy foods, cut back on sugars and fats, reduce or eliminate processed foods..." - this is excellent advice for promoting good health, not just for reducing cancer risk.

Many of the discussions you'll participate in advocate all sorts of thing to reduce your risk of recurrence and - as present/former cancer patients - that becomes an overriding concern going forward.  But I can't help feel - again, my opinion only! - that, sometimes, in our zeal to lower our recurrence risk as much as possible, we can - possibly - substantially increase our risk of other life-threatening diseases. 

For example, an oophrectomy can lower the levels of oestrogen in your body and, thus, perhaps, inhibit the ability of any stray ER+ breast cancer cells from using oestrogen to begin growing again; however - for people like me with a significant family history of heart disease and stroke, as well as debilitating osteoporosis- and arthritis - an oophrectomy would put me at MUCH HIGHER risk for these diseases than I am for a cancer recurrence.  And heart disease and stroke can kill just as easily as cancer can.  I know: my father, three paternal uncles, a maternal uncle, and four cousins have already died from heart disease, all of them, but two before the age of 50.  So I, personally, have become very sensitive to finding that "balance" that I am comfortable with.  I don't want to survive breast cancer, only to be felled by heart disease if I can do something to prevent it.

Everything carries with it SOME risk.  We can't eliminate it entirely.  The trick is finding your comfort zone.  And, I think, you really need to bring your oncologist into this discussion of what to embrace/avoid going forward.  In addition, I've found that my pharmacist has been an invaluable resource, so involve him/her in your concerns, as well.  And, again, a nutritionist/dietician could help you make the most of what you eat.

Good luck.

Dec 2, 2012 09:23 AM SelenaWolf wrote:

I allow myself one- to two glasses of wine per month.  As my oncologist said, "... you still have to enjoy life and a glass of wine - on occasion - is perfectly acceptable..."  I've minimised my consumption of heavily processed meats - i.e., deli meats, bacon, ham - and, when I do indulge, I've switched to a "naturals" brand that doesn't use nitrates or preservatives.  I've never used butter/cream substitutes - always the real thing - but the trick to that is portion-control.  A little bit - here and there - will not affect my cholesterol levels.  I've taken up French cooking over the last year; not the fancy, five-star restaurant kind, but the everyday kind that focussed on fresh, organic foods with an emphasis on a wide variety of vegetables, prepared simply and served in proper portions.  I made a creamed Spring Pea soup a few weeks ago that - for eight servings - used less than a 1/4 cup cream.  It was delicious, healthy.  And I'm loving it.

Dec 2, 2012 01:14 PM Denise-G wrote:

I drank over 10,000 protein shakes and bars over the course of 5 years on a hospital supervised diet.  They contained large amounts of soy protein isolate.

At the end of the 5 years when I was diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer - triple positive - my very credentialed breast surgeon at the Univ of Michigan, who did NOT KNOW of my consumption of such large amounts of soy protein isolate, told me, "From this day forward, do not eat or drink anything with soy protein isolate contained in it.  Normal soy in moderation is okay, but not processed soy."

Then I contacted a soy research expert at a well-known university.  He believed that the soy protein isolate did not cause my BC, but contributed to its size and growth (6 cm tumor). 

I stay away from anything with soy protein isolate.  I do eat regular soy in very limited amounts.  It is highly estrogenic.

Jan 12, 2013 10:36 PM Njlane wrote:

I have been reading the book Foods to Fight Cancer by Richard Béliveau, Ph.D. and Denis Gingras, Ph.D. And when discussing soy it says:

"the isoflavone content of foods derived from soybeans is important because these molecules have the capacity to influence the number of events associated with the uncontrolled growth of cancer cells. The principal isoflavones in soybeans are genistein and daidzein. An important characteristic of isoflavones is their striking resemblance, at the molecular level, to the class of female hormones known as estrogens, this is the reason isoflavones are often referred to as phytoestrogens. Most researchers interested in the anticancer potential of soybeans believe genistein to be the primary molecule responsible for that potential, due to its ability to BLOCK the action of enzymes involved in the uncontrolled growth of tumor cells and thus stop cell growth outright.

In addition to their effects on the proteins involved in the growth of breast or prostate cells, phytoestrogens may also act as antiestrogens, thereby decreasing cell response to these hormones.

Genistein is able to bond to an estrogen receptor site, but this affinity is weaker than that of estrogen for estrogen receptors, and does not induce as strong a response as that provoked by the hormone itself. However, the similarity in structure between genistein and estrogens ALLOWS THE GENISTEIN MOLECULE TO BLOCK THE SITE ON THE RECEPTOR TO WHICH THE ESTROGEN WOULD NORMALLY ATTACH ITSELF, IN EFFECT REDUCING ITS ACCESS. This reduced access has the effect of decreasing overall binding to the receptor, which in turn reduces the biological effects that would occur as a result if this binding.

Hormone-dependent cancers, such as breast and prostate cancers, are the primary causes of death from cancer in the West, but are rare in Asia."

It goes on to cite studies and such and how when Asians migrate to the USA and adopt our western diet their risk rises to where ours is.