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Topic: Unbelievable Nipple Cost!!!

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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 144
  • Posted on: May 17, 2008 07:24 am
Urbie wrote:

Well I received another bill for the nipple reconstruction that I had done on April 2.  I am sick, sick, sick about the cost.  The total cost billed to my insurance now stands at $9,977.00 and I had this done in an outpatient surgery center.  I was there for about and hour and a half and was not even put under, but had it done with a local.  They cut a few pieces of my skin and sewed them together.  The contractural amount to be allowed by my insurance comes to $5,570, of which I am responsible for $2,652.  That comes to over $1,300 per little bump on my chest, and they don't even match.   

I am sick about this and I called the University of Virginia Medical Center and they said that there was nothing that they could do about it.   This is their breakdown of the costs billed to insurance:

Plastic Surgeon  -  $4,304  

Anesthesia (even though I was not put under) - $770 

Pharmacy - $369

Ambulatory surgery - coded breast reconstruction! - $4,534

So I am the only one who thinks this is CRAZY?  Is there anything that I can do to fight these costs?  I really could use the advise.  Thanks.


Dx 7/26/2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

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wishiwere
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1461
May 17, 2008 07:34 am wishiwere wrote:

WOW~  That's more than my whole Mast and sln bx costs, I think!  WHEWEeeee~ What hospital in what town? 

wishiwere
Dx 9/21/2007, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
AnneW
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1988
May 17, 2008 09:50 am AnneW wrote:

Wow, it's like you got charged for the entire reconstruction process, not the nipple addition. I think the coder made a mistake here. There is most likely a different code for this STAGE of reconstruction.

Persue the coding with the plastic surgeon. I'm sure it was miscoded by someone who doesn't know too much about the reconstruction process.

BethNY may know about the ICD codes to use for this, since she has office experience.

Anne

2002 IDC stage 1, grade 1, rads & AI
Dx 9/18/2007, ILC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
rubytuesday…
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2150
May 17, 2008 12:21 pm rubytuesday wrote:

Urbie, I had one nip done and received a bill from the hospital for $8000-something....can't remember the exact amount but it was staggering and that wasn't for the PS, just the hospital.  I had light sedation but was in an OR.  I called the hospital and told them they would have to re-po my nip because I wasn't paying it.  They told me to calll the PS who recoded it and it was finally paid by my insurance.  It sounds like you've already done the phone calling so I don't think my story will be helpful.  Just wanted to commiserate with you on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.  I hope you get it resolved.  Best wishes

michmom
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 124
May 17, 2008 02:19 pm michmom wrote:

Urbie, that is an unbelievable sum.  I would talk to both the ps and your insurance coverage.  When an insurance company contracts with a hospital ususally the hospital cannot bill the balance to you. The fees were negotiated when the insurance company contracted with the hospital (unless you went to an out of network hospital).  The ps should also not bill you if they are in network . 

Definitely make some phone calls 

good Luck

Michele

Held
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 135
May 17, 2008 02:28 pm Held wrote:

$9000 for nipple reconstruction???  That is insane!  It has to be a coding mistake somewhere.  I was in the hospital for 4 days when the doc had to clean out my chest where the expander was (bad infection).  The stay included surgery, 2 days on the cardiac unit and all the other bells and whistles.  The total cost for that stay was just over $12,000.  Something is very wrong with your bill. 

I had a hospital stay miscoded once (for my daughter).  I had a terrible time correcting it, but my insurance company sent for the records and determined it to be a coding error and I didn't have to pay anything.  Try talking to your insurance company.  They must have a department that deal with disputing charges.  Good luck.

I command you - be strong and courageous! Do not be afraid or discouraged. For the Lord your God is with you wherever you go. - Joshua 1:9
Dx 9/7/2007, DCIS, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR-
snowyday
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1221
May 17, 2008 02:34 pm snowyday wrote:

Is there an ombudsman at your insurance company or better yet if you can tolerate go to the media about it and show them exactly what you showed us or at least tell the Surgical Centre that's what your going to do. How can they charge you for Anesthesia you didn't receive and no way is a local that expensive, I'd scare the crap out of them damn them. Boy am I grabby.

PN
Dx 5/18/2007, IDC, 3cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, / nodes, mets, ER-/PR-, HER2-
maggie1984
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 56
May 17, 2008 05:39 pm maggie1984 wrote:

Look in your insurance book. Insurance covers all of the recon fees as long as it has a breast cancer diagnoisis.


Dx 7/18/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
miles71
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 26
May 17, 2008 05:44 pm miles71 wrote:

Does reconstruction cost include lipo?  My PS said it is considered cosmetic and my insurance company probably won't cover it.  She quoted me a price of $2500 and said I would have to pay for it first and they will send to insurance company after the fact.  I thought I had read hear that most Stage 2, including lipo, was supposed to be covered by your insurance.  Is it all in how the PS submits the claim?  

Msklapkin
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 194
May 17, 2008 06:49 pm Msklapkin wrote:

when I was looking at alternative nipple methods, I got an opinion from a doc in NYC.  He charges $9000 for just the nipples- includes everything including tatoo.  He does not take insurance and wanted 1/2 upfront just to schedule surgery.

I went with my PS who does supmit to insurance and takes whatever they give him.  I had no out of pocket.

So.... your price may not be high in NYC prices!

Good Luck

Susan


Dx 8/8/2005, IDC, , Stage IIb, Grade 2, 1/8 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
Kathy_K
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 627
May 17, 2008 08:19 pm Kathy_K wrote:

That amount seems insulting to me.  I definitely would talk to the PS and hospital again.

I am only aware of getting extensive lipo during Stage 2 in NOLA.  Don't know how they code it to get it covered by insurance but they seem to be albe to do it.  For the most part, the only lipo you will get included in the reconstruction is for reshaping the breast and a little around the dog ears on the tummy.  Anything else is at an extra cost. 

When a woman tells the truth she is creating the possibility for more truth around her. Adrienne Rich
rockwell_gi…
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 230
May 17, 2008 08:59 pm rockwell_girl wrote:

The cost of surgery is crazy... I just had one breast done and just at the expanding stage and my bills they have submitted to the insurance company are already over $75,000.  I'm just thankful I have insurance

Some good news I found out Friday.  I had got an explanation of benefit saying my insurance won't pay any of my oncotype test which was over $3,600.  When I called the oncotype people they said they are working on an appeal for me than she asked if I talked to anybody about assistance if the insurance won't pay it.  She shared that if your gross income on your taxes is less than appox. $84,000 I won't have to pay a penny of it.  That was such good news Laughing .  Although I must admit I sure wished we made more than $84,000  Money mouth

Sandy/Sunshine : )
Dx 3/4/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
rubytuesday…
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2150
May 17, 2008 09:29 pm rubytuesday wrote:

rockwell girl, I also got an explanation of benefits saying that my oncotype wouldn't be paid for.  I called the oncotype people and they handled the whole thing.  I never heard another word about it and that was 2 years ago.  They are GREAT people!!!  Best wishes!

lady4law
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 617
May 17, 2008 10:13 pm lady4law wrote:

Urbie: Don't feel too bad. I have no idea what my nipples will cost, as I changed PS.

The hospital bill for the exchange was over $40,000!. My PS changed about the same but I am not sure what his figure covered, as it was not itemized. It may have included the price of the fills and 2 surgeries her performed during that time to remove and clean out infections.  However that billing did not include his part of the mastdectomy - placement of the expanders.

I believe my new PS is even more expensive, as no one can enter his private office "building" without being buzzed in. The joy of having medical procedures in Beverly Hills.  

Jean - Lumpectomy- 6/27/07, Chemo TC - 7/07, Mast/recon - 9/26/07 Chemo TC - 11/07 - 2 surgeries to correct infections, Exchange 3/5/07. repair surgery 5/2/08
Noni
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 132
May 17, 2008 10:25 pm Noni wrote:

I don't think the $9k seems out of line, unfortunately.    My bilateral mast with immediate DIEP and two weeks in the hospital cost over $240k.  I'm blessed with great insurance so I only had to pay $800 out of pocket.

bilateral mastectomy with immediate diep on 1/21/08
Dx 12/5/2007, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/6 nodes
Lynn12
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1018
May 17, 2008 10:46 pm Lynn12 wrote:

Miles,

I just had my stage II and had lipo to hips, flanks and abdomen and insurance covered it.  I have a great PS! Smile  I didn't go to NOLA and was hesitant to ask about lipo, but I sure am glad I did.  Then before my surgery my PS was marking me and I asked him to do as much as he could.  You have nothing to lose by asking!

Lynn
Dx 11/7/2006, ILC, 6cm+, Stage IIb, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
siona
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 56
May 18, 2008 02:22 pm, edited May 18, 2008 02:24 PM by siona siona wrote:
This Post was deleted by siona.
tmac
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 131
May 18, 2008 02:49 pm tmac wrote:

Don't know if you already have this info., but check out www.plasticsurgery.org.  Scroll down to 'How much will breast reconstruction cost?', related links, ASPS recommended Ins. coverage.  It talks about law and insurance companies not being allowed to pay less coverage and other requirements. 

I'm sure you already know, but there are state and federal laws governing insurance coverage for breast reconstruction including nipple procedures.  Good luck. 

lady4law
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 617
May 18, 2008 10:26 pm lady4law wrote:

Tmac - It is unbelieveable the price difference from one part of the country to another. Like Noni, my costs are way over 250K and I no where near done. I will have to have my silicone implants, only weeks old, remove and replaced next month. My new PS will see if he can do the nipples, at that time, so I will not have to under go another surgery. With each of my surgeries, the hospital has charged around 40K just for the OR and my after care. All I can say is, thank God I have insurance, if not I woudl have had to remain in the messed up shape I am presently in.

Jean - Lumpectomy- 6/27/07, Chemo TC - 7/07, Mast/recon - 9/26/07 Chemo TC - 11/07 - 2 surgeries to correct infections, Exchange 3/5/07. repair surgery 5/2/08
Urbie
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 144
May 20, 2008 01:53 pm Urbie wrote:

Well I called the medical center - University of Virginia Medical Center in Charlottesville, VA - and they sent it to a review board and say that it was coded correctly.  I have asked them for a detailed printout of all of the costs incurred so I can take it to the media.  Do you think that The Today Show would be interested in doing a story about the OUTRAGEOUS costs of breast reconstruction? 

I could actually see it if this was a real surgery, but cutting a few flaps of skin and sewing them together to create two small bumps and charging almost $10,000 for it?  Come on.  It is insane


Dx 7/26/2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
lvtwoqlt
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2390
May 20, 2008 02:24 pm lvtwoqlt wrote:

the hospital/anesteolgist/ps billed my insurance a total of 16,000 for my nipples but I had reached my out of pocket maximum at that point last year so I ended up not paying anything out of pocket. They accepted 100% what the insurance paid.

Sheila

We are like tea bags, we don't know how strong we are until we were thrown into hot water. Eleanore Roosevelt
roseg
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7479
May 20, 2008 04:29 pm roseg wrote:

Don't forget - the $9K is the "list price".

Nobody pays that. The "Contractual" price was about half. 

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, given that these things cost a fortune.

Your co-pay of $2,500 seems high, but that would well be your insurance.   We pay $100 for outpatient surgery, but they've been sneaking a bunch of other little charges in on that. 

Rose
pamfenton
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 209
May 20, 2008 05:47 pm pamfenton wrote:

I just got bill from NOLA.  $132,000.  That is for stage 1 and I have 2 and 3 to go thru.  My portion is $10,300.  If I heard the insurance girl right, I don't have to pay for stages 2 and 3 as long as they are done before 12/31/08.It is all very scary, even when you are pleased with the results and feel you got excellent care, which I do. Really when you compare yours to mine, mine is much more reasonable.


Dx 5/17/2005, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIb, Grade 3, 1/10 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
BethNY
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3831
May 20, 2008 06:35 pm BethNY wrote:

I just had this conversation today with a colleague over at the ASPS.  There are no guidelines for the cost of breast reconstruction due to the way insurance is in America. 

I am really surprised that nipple reconstruction is not included in your breast reconstruction.  It truly baffles me.

I would absolutely seek out news media-- they love to bring attention to things like this...

I told you I only play to win....
Colleen123
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 352
May 20, 2008 07:59 pm Colleen123 wrote:

The costs seem outrageous, but I just checked the receipt from NOLA and the listed cost of each nipple was 3500.00 and that is just the doctor's fee.  That doesn't include the anesthesia or the hospital fee.  I didn't have to pay that much as the doctor wrote off a lot of it, but that is the listed fee.  So... I guess your fees don't seem that bad after all.  It is hard to justify some of the costs, though.

Colleen

chris1228
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 31
May 20, 2008 08:11 pm chris1228 wrote:

I'm paying close attention to all of this advice as I will be getting it done later this year! 

Urbie you might also want to contact Good Morning America (ABC). Robin Roberts, co-anchor, was diagnosed last year with breast cancer.  

Christy
Dx 2007, Paget's, Stage 0, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-
roseg
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7479
May 21, 2008 06:42 am roseg wrote:

The doctor needs to set his full price high because most insurances negociate an amount off of that.  So don't look at the full price.

If they didn't get paid they wouldn't do it!

The hosptial is another matter. Who knows what they're throwing into the bills.  They're all screwed up because they're also footing the bill for advertising and Medicare/Medicaid coverage on the back of private insurances. 

Rose
DebzNY
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 99
May 21, 2008 08:13 am DebzNY wrote:

I just had my nipples done in April.  Due to the guidelines in my insurance plan (I have Empire with a Cancer Resources rider on the policy)They billed out $6700. 

Time to Live!
Dx 2/28/2007, DCIS, , Stage 0, 0/2 nodes
JulsB
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 138
May 21, 2008 05:42 pm JulsB wrote:

Miles71, we're in the same area...who is your PS?  If you are uncomfortable posting you can pm me.  Wondering if we have the same doc?? thanks!

hollyann
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 172
May 21, 2008 05:48 pm hollyann wrote:

Hi Urbie!  My nipple recons came to a little over  $14,000!!!    My advice is to call the insurance commissioner in your area and see if he or she can help.  Good luck to you !

Hugs, Lucy
Dx 1/15/2007, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/6 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
tmac
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 131
May 22, 2008 10:02 am tmac wrote:

Okay girls,

I can feel my anxiety rising, and preparing for a fight w/my ins. co.  I have several months before my nip reconst., but I want to be prepared.  I see my PS next week for my final fill, and will start asking questions.  I'm up-to-date on all my bills that have been submitted/covered so far, but am dreading my hospital bill for the bilat/reconstruction.  Since it was an overnight hospitalization, I'm pretty sure most will be covered (but they always seem to sneek in something that "oh, that's not covered" etc.) 

I am also calling my ins. co. @nip reconstruction, however, each time I call about anything, ofcourse I get a different person on the other end, and always seem to get a different explanation for everything.  So, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!  I have Cigna, & am curious if anyone else has gone thru the process w/same ins. co.   


Dx 2/8/2008, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+

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