Topic: Low Fat Diet

I have seen this written in any info about chances of bc recurrences.  I was also told this by my onc.  But my bc surgeon says weight gain and/or poor diet, they are now finding up your chances of recurrence.  This is also documentation about how to keep from getting bc now.

Flalady

Hi all,

Interesting conversation, especially since I recently discussed this very issue with my own medical team. I'd like to add that I'm in Texas, and "my" t*tmen are among those who organize, lead, and present at the San Antonio Annual Breast Cancer Symposium. They also head up a regional chapter of one of the more cutting-edge national triple negative BC clinical trials.

Here is what they told me specifically about recurrence of triple negative breast cancer:

1.) A low-fat diet. So low-fat, in fact, that my breast surgeon referred to it as "monastic." He also recommended I drop an additional 10 lbs even though I'm currently considered fairly normal weight (130 lbs for 5'2", 60 years old).

2.) 30 - 60 minutes of concentrated physical activity per diem. Walking is OK, but it should be power walking, and -- if possible -- combined with upper body strength training. They said to get 1-lb dumbells and flex arms with them while trotting on the treadmill.

3.) While young women with hormone receptive BC should ideally avoid all alcohol, no clear correlation between triple negative BC and alcohol has currently been established. The reason alcohol is so bad for hormone positive BC is because it increases estrogen in the breast tissue. There may, however, be other as yet unknown factors that also link alcohol to triple negative BC.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/14/health/webmd/main4014147.shtml

4.) There seems to be increasing evidence that alcohol consumed when a woman is young is most harmful as far as breast tissue is concerned. Alcohol seems to have less impact on more mature breast tissue. This, however, is also under ongoing investigation.

The bottom line seems at this time to be that nobody really has definitive answers. I do find it interesting, however, that breast cancer rates are lower in the Mediterranean basin than in the USA or northern Europe, although French, Italian, and Spanish women are all great drinkers of wine and other spirits. Believe me, I know.

Hugs to all,

Annie

It's not just vegan ... you can have fish that is a good source of protein and lower fat than say peanut butter. It's just really difficult to keep fat calories at 20% of dietary intake unless you cook all of your foods and are really careful with cooking methods, etc.

For example, take a 1600 calorie diet. 20% of that would be 320 calories. Fat is 9 calories per gram, so 320 calories would be about 35 grams of fat. One tablespoon of olive oil has 13.5 gram of fat. One tablespoon of peanut butter has 8 gram of fat. Four ounces of salmon has 7 grams of fat. You can see how the fat calories can add up.

I find that if I make all my own meals and choose carefully, I can keep to 20% calories from fat. But, as soon as I go out to eat, it's hard to keep below 35% calories from fat.

Hey Curvy,

I've copied and pasted the significant portion (as far as triple negatives are concerned) of the article at my link above for your reading pleasure. Please read until the END of the pasted portion below.

Cheers!

Annie

Overall, moderate drinking raised the risk of developing breast cancer, regardless of whether a woman's preference was for beer, wine, or hard liquor. And the more she drank, the greater the risk.

But most of the increased risk was seen in women whose tumors were fueled by both estrogen and progesterone, says Jasmine Q. Lew, a fourth-year medical student at the University of Chicago who led the research.

These tumors, referred to by doctors as being estrogen-receptor and progesterone-receptor positive, or ER+/PR+, account for many breast cancers.

Compared with teetotalers, women who drank one to two drinks a day were 32 percent more likely to develop ER+/PR+ breast cancer. Having three or more drinks daily raised the risk of ER+/PR+ tumors by 51 percent.

Lew says that drinking alcohol also appeared to raise the risk of a more aggressive type of tumor known as estrogen-receptor positive, progesterone receptor negative, or ER+/PR-. But so few women fell into this category that the finding could have been due to chance.

In women with estrogen-receptor negative, progesterone-receptor negative (ER/PR-) tumors, there did not appear to be a link between drinking and breast cancer.

This is all soooo frustrating. I like to enjoy going out to dinner and indulging on treats. I want to attend social functions without counting the number of drinks I have.  I feel guilty when  i over indulge for fear i am giving myself cancer. I know women who live very healthy lifestyles, yet end up with bc.  I also know women who live very unhealthy lifestyles and are doing fine.  Ugh!!!!  Sometimes I just want to live without making sooo many sacrifices, especially if it all doesn't matter in the end.  Very frustrating. Just thought I would vent.

Thanks Annie & the rest of you. I'm in deep trouble. My idea of cooking is to nuke leftovers. As a vegetarian, cheese and yogurt are my main sources of protein.

This whole thing reminds me of the kind of joke where the doctor says to the patient "if you don't give up red meat and smoking and liquor, you are going to die." The patient's response of course is "if I do give those things up, who wants to live?"

We have to make sure there are still things we can enjoy (in moderation). You have to be realistic when you read what the study says. You just know that next week someone is going to come up with another study that contradicts it. And for us TNs, we are excluded by definition from most of the studies.

I want to stay healthy as much as anyone, but too much of this is guesswork.

susan

My first onc told me about ultra low fat diet, too, which is less than 20 grams of fat a day OR LESS.  He said that is what the japanese eat and they have very low rates of breast cancer.  So I tried to do it and after about a month I couldn't take it anymore.  I was going to bed HUNGRY.  Now I avoid fried foods and drink fat free milk.  I hope that is good enough.

Thanks, Shannon

I could do something like that too Iza.  My two daughters eat vegetarian and it would sure simplify meal prep.

Hi gals, don't you just love this thread?  First they tell us eat fish only once a week, at most, because ALL the fish has mercury.

Then a year or so ago, I read that a long, serious study showed that eating a fatty diet had nothing to do with breast cancer.

formygirls, I hear ya sister.  Never drank, never smoked, not a true vegan but as close as you can get, never took hormones, nursed 3 babies, had a rather late estrus and an early menopause.  Got it anyway.  Made me mad too. I do believe that overweight has some effect, so many of us are.  And fat produces estrogen, but I was a Triple Neg, so damn. Who knows?  Oh, Monastic refers to Monks, who I guess lived on gruel?  Ughhhhhh

Hugs, Shirlann 

AnnNYC,

Bravo! You have just solved the riddle of the monastic diet that will prevent triple negative BC from coming back -- the appreciation of liqueurs and wines originating in monasteries. Also, don't forget Benedictine. that ambrosia of wild herbs and spices invented by monks during the Renaissance period:

http://www.benedictine.fr/anglais/histoire_frame.html

Ladies -- may I exhort us all to moderately sip our way to health and happiness!

Annie

PS: Whoever said we need to give up sex? As far as I've discovered, sex doesn't necessarily have to involve the bazoom. It's nice when it does, but can be quite gratifying without as well.

Cheers!  I'll drink to that!

Thanks Annie for starting this thread.  I'm learning fast that diet for triple-negs does matter.  My oncologist also said to limit red meat and fatty foods, but left me with the feeling that anything in moderation was okay. 

I've been under the misconception that those cancers driven by hormones were the ones that had to pay particular attention to such stringent fat-free diets. 

Although I will indulge from time to time, I've definitely received a wake-up call and will be more regimented in our meal choices. 

Thanks ladies!  Great info.

Affectionately,

Michelle

OK, I'm not a triple-negative, but I do (did?) have one of those nasty, ER+ PR- (HER2-) tumors that supposedly thrives on fats and alcohol.

But, PLEASE, Annie, not this!:

"...eat as little fat as possible. No animal fat except from fish, and fish only a couple of times a week. Only olive oil; no mayo or butter. No whole eggs; only egg whites. Mainly vegetables, legumes, fruit."

First I cut out cholesterol, because of my family's propensity to die of heart disease and my own high LDL. Then I cut out most other obvious over-indulgence in high-octane fats, and went with very lean meats, skinned chicken, grilled fish, and eggs and condiments only on rare occasions. I ended up on a statin anyway, because of those darn genes I got from my family.  But I kept that glass of wine with dinner, since most of the data indicated it was was beneficial for the cardiovascular system.

As a result of all that, my LDL, HDL, and triglyceride levels are all in the fabulous range, and have been for quite a few years.  So, I need to modify my diet again, to keep my BC at bay? And I need to cut out alcohol almost completely, as well as all those other things that make dining so pleasurable?

Where does this end???  Starve yourself, so you can outlive your risk of BC (recurrence)?  It really does make me want to throw in the towel, at least as far as further dietary restrictions are concerned.  I would be thrilled if I could just lose those 15 pounds I've gained since menopause hit.  What I think I lack is motivation, not more legumes and fruits.

:( 

otter 

Ladies:

My ex-wife asked me to come to the boards and ask about her situation.  She is a triple-negative who finished chemo sometime ago, but she is having problems losing weight.  She is on a 900 calorie per day diet and cannot understand why she can't lose weight.  Recently, an MRI discovered another possible growth.  She is due back in May to do another guided MRI (the first one not being successful, apparently).  From what I am reading the important thing is the type of diet one eats.  Should she lose weight, considering weight also increases the risk of cancer or should she not make efforst to lose weight?  She feels she is 40 lbs. overweight, but I don't think she is that heavy. Thank you.

VMD,

I think your wife needs to ask her PCP for a referral to a nutritionist. It is true that being overweight is bad for health overall -- it not only increases BC risk, but also can contribute to adult onset diabetes, arthritis, artheriosclerosis, etc. If your wife feels her excess weight is putting her health at risk, she needs to get some guidance and care from a professional so she can lose weight and become more fit in a way that won't harm her.

Best of luck!

Annie