Topic: role of alcohol in breast cancer development and recurrence

But I love my wine!!!! Great post. I used to drink one glass of wine a day for many years with my meal and then maybe an extra one on the weekends. I asked the onc about it and he said "everything in moderation." Whatever that means. Now, I am slightly changed my habits. I stay away from it during the week and have a couple each night on the weekend. From what I've read, under 5 glasses a week is probably ok. I also take extra folate. I am highly er/pr, so lowering my circulating estrogens is important. Nada. 

allyson- I'm with you on this one. I'll miss it, though.

Most of my adult life, before my kids and while they were living with us, my husband and I drank very little. Maybe once a month we'd have wine with dinner out with friends.  These last couple of years, as empty-nesters, we've been out with friends a lot, and drinking a lot more. One of our favorite Friday night outings has been going to a local place that has wine tastings and then going to dinner, sometimes with more wine.  In October, we toured Tuscany, enjoying Italian wines along with the scenery and culture. Adult pleasures- but not for me, anymore., sorry to say.

  Maybe because my scar is still tender that I have this resolve, but I

believe that alcohol is harmful to my health, and I'm determined to do whatever it takes to stay healthy. I'm surprised that this is my most difficult give-up.  I thought it would be sugar, but I find by not eating sugar, I no longer want it. Drinking for me is a social thing- more about lifestyle and enjoying life and it's pleasures, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me that it's tough to give up.    

Allyson....Thank you for having had the courage to identify what you believe might have been a relationship between your alcohol consumption patterns and the development of your breast cancer. I'm with you all the way on this and think that this is an appropriate venue for me to identify myself as a recovering alcoholic. I will go even further and add that many of you "normies" (as we, in AA, often call non-alcoholics) might be somewhat surprised to know what a huge number of female alcoholics, at least those I meet in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, have had, or have BC. The numbers are probably staggering! For this reason, I'd say it is wise for women who think that they drink excessively to cut back or quit. As for the normal drinkers, I'll say what I usually do when we try to decide what "caused" our cancer....and that's that it is most likely just a huge crap shoot or at least a combination of lots of smallish factors that one can't possibly worry about!

Thanks again, Allyson, for providing me with the opportunity to share this and, in doing so, possibly help other women who worry about drinking alcoholically and getting BC. If you do and want to share about it privately, please feel free to PM me at any time.

~Marin

Allyson...I think we make a good team, don't you? I'd like to offer some possible reasons as to why we don't hear much stress put on the relationship between alcohol and bc. One reason may be the reluctance of health care providers to give too much credence to the relationship because they, too, drink more than moderately. There is still such a severe stigma around alcoholism, one that many choose to ignore, but which they still ascribe to, whether consciously or unconsciously. So, in giving alcohol weight as a factor that contributes to BC, many would feel the need to quit or cut back themselves or advise their patients to do so. Who wants to be that guy, the stone-crasher? Instead, they defend vociferously their right to "fully enjoy life" by drinking alcohol. Whatever. Related to this is what I can only call embarassment or discomfort on the parts of many to even discuss alcoholism. I can't tell you how many times I've told a new doctor or NP that I'm an alcoholic, only to have them offer excuses for me and brush it aside, then quickly drop the subject. They'll say things like "Oh, but you probably weren't a real alcoholic or a bad alcoholic?" Huh? I usually tell them that it is a part of my medical history that they need to know and not information that I'm asking for their judgment or blessings on. Then there's also the financial aspect, both from the clinician's POV, with patients getting ticked off and changing docs, to the larger fact that there's money in alcohol and the industry may take issue with the publicizing of a connection.

Finally, I'll say that I, like you (but probably to a much greater extent) was never happier than i am today, having left alcohol behind in favor of full consciousness and a much livlier and more colorful view of the world! I attribute this not only to just not drinking but to my having learned how to live more compassionately and joyously, as a result of my BC experience as well as my experience in 12-step living. I wouldn't change any of it for the world!

~Marin

Well you know what my onc told me to enjoy life to the full, a few wines wont make my cancer worse, if its gonna grow it'll grow no matter what I eat or drink,

cheers ladies!!

Not to worry- no one here (i.e. me) is interested in leaping through the computer screen and yanking anyone's wine bottle or similar from their hands LOL . The point I am bringing up is that alcohol has a known relationship to the development and progression of breast cancer- particularly ER+ after menopause (my situation).

I believe firmly in a woman's right to choose...in this case to drink or not...but I think it only fair that this be an informed choice, which for many I think it is not because the matter is not discussed.

Cheers with my cup of green tea . Allyson

Hello,,,

Me2!! I am sooo glad that someone started this thread.

I too am a wine drinker... have always had a glass of wine in the evenings...for me it has been like that cup of coffee in the morning.

I now am sticking w/ the organic wines as much as I can, and am limiting my glass of evening wine to the weekends.

I am not going to stop my life and what I enjoy because of this stupid cancer, but I guess I cannot "knowingly" continue my old ways and sleep at night.

Hugs kosh.....

PS....trying to cut down on the coffee consumption too...lol.

Allyson,

I don't think anyone is worried about that.  You wanted some opinions, so there they are.  I appreciate you wanting to share that knowledge and I'm sure there are woman who do not know about the studies.  My point is there are an overwhelming amount of unknowns out there to say where the cancer comes from.  I sometimes blame mine on stress.  But really, who knows.  My thoughts are if we picked everything apart as to what was "healthy", we would starve and thirst to death.  Our planet and resources are so messed up,there is no possible way for anything to be truly healthy anymore, if you follow it down to the end.  So, while someones cancer may stem from alcohol, I would guess there are many more that stem from something else.  It would be nice if all of the choices were informed choices, but sadly it dosn't always work that way.  But for myself, thank you for brining up this topic and hopefully it helps someone. 

g

I've seen the issue of breast cancer and alcohol brought up on this board more than a few times since I joined.  I thought it was just a given that most of us know there's an association.  I thought, though, that the association is with drinking an average of 3 or more servings of alcohol daily.  I'll have to look that up.

When I was dx'd, I quit drinking what little alcohol I drank and didn't have alcohol again until last month.  I now drink maybe one drink a week or less and I don't feel it increases my risk of a recurrence.  

My onc has asked me a couple of times, at least, if I drink.  I said no, because I wasn't then, so I have no idea why he was asking or what he would have said if I'd have had a different answer.  I'm pretty sure my gp asked me, too.   

Maybe, I'm just being stubborn, but I'm leaning toward the thinking that we really have very little idea of what increases or decreases risk of breast cancer.   I personally know two women who lost their mom to breast cancer when she was in her 40's.  They both drink, one moderately to heavy, and the other is an alcoholic.  They both smoke, and the moderate drinker hasn't met a vegetable she likes.  Do they have breast cancer?  Hell, no!!!  And, here I am...the skinny, breastfeeding, vegetarian, who avoided everything in excess, as well as known carcinogens.  Boy, do I feel like a fool.  

Cynthia 

Cyn ~

I was just going to post something similar....I only drink socially which is not enough for me as far as THAT goes,( however, when I did...it was no wine it was a martini or Margarita....making up for all the times I didn't I guess...but 2 was usually my "limit".... no history of BC in family.  Non-smoker, eat healthy ...my "faults" is chocolate!!  Call me a rebel ! LOL

I don't live in the "toxic corridor"...although I plan on e-mail relatives that are.  Not even "stressed" person....

I have DCIS...yes, but I HAD to have a mastectomy followed by 36 rounds of rads ( due to a positive margin )

I think no one knows really how cancer begins...lets just pray it ends!

Wow! Things have been busy here while I was at work! I had no idea that my post would generate so much energy! I am really interested in what everyone has to say and will keep up as energy and time allow. As the "coffee lady" used to say on the old SNL sketch, "tawk amongst yaw-selves."

Cynthia- My impression that a couple of glasses a week is not seen as a big issue for most women. Very interesting that your doctors did ask about alcohol. Lolita- your point is well taken on the chemical and manufacturing interests.

In general- the point I brought up is not about alcohol as a single causal factor of breast cancer, we all know that bc, like most cancers, is a multifactorial disease process that takes place over many years often before it is even detectable. Nevertheless, there is a correlation between alcohol consumption and breast cancer with risk increasing as alcohol consuption increases. Some of the processes by which alcohol promotes tumor growth (angiogenesis for example). We don't have to like it and it doesn't mean that every woman who drinks or drinks heavily will have breast cancer, but it is what it is. Perhaps I should have titled this thread "An Inconvenient Truth." Oops, no...that title's already taken...LOL. I'm being a wise guy but really I am glad to have the discussion.

Thanks, Ladies, for reminding me that the most important thing is to enjoy whatever it is we choose to do during the time we're alive. 

Kosh - yes, I agree that I think we sometimes choose a path based on how in control it makes us feel.  If I hadn't already done so many things right, I would be turning to those things now to help me feel more in control.  lol

Luvmy2girls - mastectomy and rads - that's awful.  I had 33 and felt that was quite enough.  You're right, we need an end to this disease and now!

g - you're right, of course, that all we can do is the best we can with the info we have now...which, unfortunately, isn't much.  

Cynthia 

I think whether it's okay/not okay to have a glass now and then within the current recommendation of up to 6 drinks per week for women is up for debate. Heavier drinking has been clearly identified as a factor that increases risk. MarkAnthony you may well be correct that at the glass a day level the benefit could outweigh the risk, but this is unknown and really would be a great area for research. 

Tempting as it is and natural as it is to base our decisions regarding risk by looking right around us, this approach does not provide very accurate data on which to base our conclusions. That's why we have large research studies based on random samples, etc. Those of us who have been through breast cancer treatment know, for example, that our treatment recommendations are based on statistical predictions based on data obtained from thousands of women, versus being based on our oncologist's personal experiences with the patients he or she happened to see. The alcohol risk isssues work in a similar way.

The real concern again relates to regular, heavy drinking- particularly 3 or more drinks per day on a routine or daily basis, as this has clearly been identified as risky for bc and other cancers. Within the 6 drink a week guideline identified as safe for most women- we'll have to see.

As someone brought up- this issue of personal control plays a part in some womens' decisions. I have a strong need to control those factors that I can control in taking charge of my not recently so cooperative health. The things I can't control...they're on their own.  

Dx 5/18/2007, ILC, 3cm, Stage IIIa, Grade 2, 6/17 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Ally ~

Interesting article...like you said, " Tawk amongst yaw-selves"LOL

I agree, everything in moderation that has been my motto !!! 

Fit Chick ~ a Life choice, amongst others, alcoholics "good/bad/indifferent or in the closet"....are dependent, it is a day to day choice and at times struggle...yet once you reach that point some don't miss it at all !  B/C or not...overall health with Liver, family/friends and a part of life for some is not fully lived.  Keep up the AA support !

I've read articles that suggest that the differences in breast cancer between white women and oriental/asian women may be more related to the differences in their alcohol consumption than much else.

I think moderation is really the key, and if you can't be moderate then you're better off not drinking.  For me moderate is 1-2 drinks a week, which means  not every day. There are plenty of other ways to reduce stress.  

That said, there are so many things that seem to cause breast cancer. If you can drink moderately and aren't battling the scale then it doesn't seem like it hurts anything.