Topic: can we talk about soy...again?

Hey, Marin - how did you fix tofu that it had any flavor.  Do you just eat it out of the package?  My onc also said to give up soy. As you can tell, i have never tasted tofu, just heard it was flaverless (is that a word?)

I went through a phase of being paranoid about soy.  One day I spent 20 minutes on the bread aisle looking for anything without soybean oil in it.  I left emptyhanded.  When I posed this dilemma here, some people said we'd be more likely to develop a heart condition from all the soybean oil in food than grow a new tumor.  And for things like soy sauce, it's so heavily processed that it's unlikely for phytoestrogens to survive. 

As I mentioned in other threads, I eat flaxseed for breakfast in spite of it having phytoestrogens while I'm er/pr+.  I've read that plant esters are weaker than what our bodies produce.  One theory says we benefit from phytoestrogens because they will bind to the receptors but they are too weak to feed a tumor.  I wonder how anyone can really know that the phytoestrogens are beating our own bodies estrogen to the punch when it comes to binding with receptors, but we all make our choices in what we believe.  For now, I'm staying away from supplements that contain phytoestrogens, but I'll eat things as food even if it contain phytoestrogens.  

In an article on soy allergy, the Mayo Clinic identifies products known to contain soy. Some of them, like MSG (which I'm actually allergic to and always try to avoid) and vegetable broth, really surprised me:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/soy-allergy/DS00970/DSECTION=8

As for making tofu flavorful, it can be marinated in a soy sauce/garlic/ginger/olive oil mixture and then sauteed with fresh veggies, then served over brown rice or quinoa. I just like it plain, drained and cubed though. It doesn't have a strong flavor, but I love its texture. My favorite tofu dish is the Mo Pa Tofu though....sauteed tofu and broccoli in a spicy, Asian sauce. YUM!

~Marin

gb- very interesting point re: the similarity between soy and alcohol issues with ER+ breast cancer. The Asian diet studies are hard to evaluate since Asian diet differs in several other important ways than just the frequency of soy consumption. I deal with it kind of like you do- have soy rarely- maybe 2x a month or less- no soy milk however- switched to almond milk and lowfat organic cow's milk for my coffee. No wine for me however- since my ideal serving size is at least half a bottle- preferably a whole bottle - my former idea of dessert! I also was a heavy consumer of all things soy- milk, bars, beans, tofu, edamame, cereal, burgers, etc. I know the concentrated stuff is supposed to be the worst and I certainly (not knowing this at the time) ate my share of it. I just wish a believable news bulletin would appear announcing that traditional soy foods are good for women who'd had ER+ bc. It would allow me to eat a more varied and enjoyable diet.

"There is in vivo animal data suggesting the phytoestrogen genistein (from soy) may interfere with the inhibitive effects of tamoxifen on breast cancer cell growth." 

Or, eating soy could have that effect on tamoxifen users. 

Harley,

Eat flaxseed to offset the genistein problem.  They researched the two together and flax did work to do that.   What a life we have, we have to eat foods to stop the damage that other foods can do instead of just getting rid of the offending food that's in everything out there.

I love TOFU!!!! I'm also lactose-intolerant so I've been drinking soy milk for many years. I stopped after dx. I still have bags of edamame in my freezer, and instant miso soup. It's hard to give it up! I read an article on the breastcancer.org home page about it, but can't remember what it says.

Rosemary,

So...what do we do??  Flaxseed is bad and so is soy...so why would I take Flax to counter the se's of the soy, if they are BOTH bad for us?

Thanks.... Very confused!

Harley

I think that IF there is a connection between soy and increased incidence of cancer in the US then it probably is from soy grown in the US which is often genetically modified.  I eat soy products (tofu, soy beans, soy sauce) but only buy made-in-Japan products where they don't grow the GMO stuff.  I stay away from processed spreads and dressings anyway. 

Rosemary that makes sense. I guess sometimes we think too simplistically about these things- ie "people in Asia eat soy, bc rate are lower there (etc) soy must be good." I am going to continue to steer clear (except for the rare bowl of miso soup) unless/until soy is proven safe. I keep hoping that soy will be proven safe or beneficial even but no such luck...I guess it's something we should all be asking our oncs about, reading about, and being at the very least careful about until new info emerges.

Thank goodness the tea seems to be a good thing! I happen to drink lots of green tea, including the cold stuff in a can imported from Japan with added vitamin C which boosts the absorbtion of the antioxidant compounds of the tea- "Sencha Shot" is one brand. It's an aquired taste it seems- my stepfather is Japanese so I have had more than the usual opportunity to develop a taste for this and other non-Western foods (like tofu  , seaweed, and raw fish ). Interesting re: the white rice- I've backed way off on the carbs based on other reading and think of white rice as one of the baddest of the bad- maybe a little now and then in a nori roll isn't such a bad thing after all. I will say that with less carbs I feel so much better that it is unbelievable- finally I've beaten the post tx fatigue and then some.

Hi ladies!  I just happened on this conversation.  I am almost triple negative.  Very weakly positive, and just had a lumpectomy in October.  My mammo found it.  So from July 06 to July 07 I developed the tumore.  The only thing that I had been doing differently, was that I was drinking and eating more soy, over the course of that year.  Not sure if that means anything, but I have stopped!!  Not taking any chances!

I hear you, but this is my thought, if it mimics estrogen, then why couldn't it help create a tumor in a negative person!  Might be crazy thinking, but I will not be eating or drinking soy!

I was surfing around pubmed and ran into this article---I think this was published last year.

 Genistein sensitizes inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on the growth of estrogen receptor-positive and HER2-overexpressing human breast cancer cells.
Mai Z, Blackburn GL, Zhou JR.

Nutrition/Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Surgery, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, 330 Brookline Avenue, Boston, MA 02215, USA.

Although tamoxifen (TAM) is used for the front-line treatment and prevention of estrogen receptor-positive (ER+) breast tumors, nearly 40% of estrogen-dependent breast tumors do not respond to TAM treatment. Moreover, the positive response is usually of short duration, and most tumors eventually develop TAM-resistance. Overexpression of HER2 gene is associated with TAM-resistance of breast tumor, and suppression of HER2 expression enhances the TAM activity. Soy isoflavone genistein has been shown to have anti-cancer activities and suppress expression of HER2 and ERalpha. The objective of this study was to test the hypothesis that genistein may sensitize the response of ER+ and HER2-overexpressing breast cancer cells to TAM treatment. The combination treatment of TAM and genistein inhibited the growth of ER+/HER2-overexpressing BT-474 human breast cancer cells in a synergistic manner in vitro. Determination of cellular markers indicated that this synergistic inhibitory effect might be contributed in part from combined effects on cell-cycle arrest at G(1) phase and on induction of apoptosis. Further determination of the molecular markers showed that TAM and genistein combination synergistically induced BT-474 cell apoptosis in part by synergistic downregulation of the expression of survivin, one of the apoptotic effectors, and downregulation of EGFR, HER2, and ERalpha expression. Our research may provide a novel approach for the prevention and/or treatment of TAM insensitive/resistant human breast cancer, and warrants further in vivo studies to verify the efficacy of genistein and TAM combination on the growth of ER+/HER2-overexpressing breast tumors and to elucidate the in vivo mechanisms of synergistic actions. (c) 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Soy is generally NOT recommended to women who are ER+ -- my onc said small amounts (like the soy found in everything) are OK, but to stay away from concentrated forms like protein drinks, tofu, etc.

M.