Topic: Alternative Treatment

Forum: Alternative Medicine — This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.

Posted on: Aug 8, 2011 10:32AM

Posted on: Aug 8, 2011 10:32AM

dougbrimor wrote:

Has anyone used alternative treatments such as Lorriane Day, Chris Beat Cancer, The Hallelujah Diet and skipped the cookie cutter 6 weeks of radiation and five years of Tamoifen?  I am so confused , even the 2011 cancer book that the radaition department gave me in my red folder states that radiation can cause a second cancer, that they are working on improving these satatics.  I read the whole book cover to cover and was just blown away by what they are admitting of these chemicals.  Anyway, would like to know if anyone else is swinging on this bridge?  Thanks

Dx 7/18/2011, <1cm, Stage I, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 17, 2012 10:11PM abigail48 wrote:

juliaw2025  I was given a referal to a naturopath:  dr doni wilson.....dr doni.com.......I've not contacted her but I ran into her name & she specializes in women's health

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Mar 17, 2012 11:29PM - edited Mar 17, 2012 11:38PM by Ruby-

Well, I'm almost sorry I googled....Abigail, looks like you're being very wise 

Anesthesia directly related to recurrence 

Daniel Sessler, M.D., an anesthesiologist and chair of the outcomes research department at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, who has studied the topic but was not involved in the latest research, suggests that general anesthesia could weaken the body's immune system and its ability to kill tumor cells released into the bloodstream during surgery, therefore making the cancer more likely to return.

A similar study of patients undergoing surgery for breast cancer found that utilizing regional anesthesia in the form of propofol and a paravertebral block reduced the risk of recurrence or metastasis during the initial years of follow-up.

www.anesthesiazone.com/feature... 

"It might be surprising to learn that the presence of the primary tumor serves to inhibit the growth of metastatic cancer elsewhere in the body. The primary tumor produces anti-angiogenic factors which restrict the growth of metastases. These anti-angiogenic factors inhibit the formation of new blood vessels to potential sites of metastasis. Regrettably, the surgical removal of the primary cancer also results in the removal of these anti-angiogenic factors, and the growth of metastasis is no longer inhibited. With these restrictions lifted, it is now easier for small sites of metastatic cancer to attract new blood vessels that promote their growth. Indeed, these concerns were voiced by researchers who declared that "... removal of the primary tumor might eliminate a safeguard against angiogenesis and thus awaken dormant micrometastasis [small sites of metastatic cancer].

As if the loss of angiogenic inhibition by the primary tumor were not enough of a problem, it turns out the surgery causes another angiogenic predicament. After surgery, levels of factors that increase angiogenesis-also known as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF)-are significantly elevated. This can result in an increased formation of new blood vessels supplying areas of metastatic cancer. A group of scientists summarized this research quite well when they asserted that "after surgery, the angiogenic balance of pro- and antiangiogenic factors is shifted in favor of angiogenesis to facilitate wound healing. Especially levels of vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) are persistently elevated. This may not only benefit tumor recurrence and the formation of metastatic disease, but also result in activation of dormant micrometastases"

www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/c... 

The flower that follows the sun does so even on cloudy days. ~Robert Leighton / The power that made the body heals the body. It happens no other way.

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 12:08AM luv_gardening wrote:

Abigail, I had a complete removal of lymph nodes on one side and sentinel node removal on the other side and more than 2 years later I have no swelling.  The woman you mention who was young probably had a more aggressive form of cancer which is most common in younger women.  The chance that yours is estrogen positive and would respond to an anti-hormonal is high.  You can do that naturally simply by eating half a large mushroom each day.  The larger ones are stronger, but they are just the common eating mushrooms, yummy too.  I ate them every day before the docs prescribed the pills.  There are other natural estrogen suppressors but my mind has gone blank.  Resveratrol from grape seeds is one, but red wine is not strong enough, it has to be concentrated.  Getting a biopsy to confirm the type of cancer would help but I can see you won't want to go there and I respect that. Some of the stage IV ladies have gone into remission just from tamoxifen or an aromatase inhibitor so it's possible the mushroom or resveratrol could buy you some time.   But in the end the cancer will find a way around anything we try as it's a shape-shifter.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 12:26AM luv_gardening wrote:

Maud, you have heard a rumour that has no basis in fact. Otherwise my ancestors who had BC removed in their 40's and 50's would not have died of old age in their 80's. Surgeons try hard not to cut through tumours in case any cells get into the blood although the chance of it spreading that way is not high. When a primary cancer is removed, if there are already mets that may be too small to find, they may start to grow faster due to factors you have highlighted.  But there are many other factors in play that may influence the outcome.  When a tumour reaches a critical mass, it will be seeding itself around the body and increase metastasis.  When a woman presents with stage IV BC they tended to leave the primary tumour and not operate, but new studies are showing that removing the primary cancer extends life so the old assumption may be wrong.

There are so many variables due to the type of cancer, how aggressive it is, different properties of the cancer etc. There are no hard and fast rules, except that a primary cancer left to grow will produce metastasis eventually and that will surely cause pain, disability, fear, inability to work, death and everything else that we fear from the surgery multiplied many times.

I'll look for the studies and put them up here when I find them but meanwhile, cancer surgery saves lives every day and is indisputable.  But of course I respect your right to that view and think a respectful debate about it is needed to help people make up their mind.

Peace and love to all, the greatest healer of all.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 01:01AM Hindsfeet wrote:

 I have a difficult understanding why any tumor remains in the body as it seems to be the manufacturing plant of the magligant cells.

joylieswithin comments: There are no hard and fast rules, except that a primary cancer left to grow will produce metastasis eventually and that will surely cause pain, disability, fear, inability to work, death and everything else that we fear from the surgery multiplied many times.

Thanks joylieswithin for coming back here...It's good to know someone like yourself who is studied gives the needed balance and help to all women coming to bco. BCO...NEEDS WHO YOU ARE. BTW...how is your new job coming along?

Dx 6/13/2014, IDC, 1cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Mar 18, 2012 01:09AM luv_gardening wrote:

Surgical resection of the primary tumor is associated with increased long-term survival in patients with stage IV breast cancer after controlling for site of metastasis.

 In this study of 409 women, those who had the primary tumour removed lived more than twice as long as those who didn't have the surgery.  So other factors come into play.  It's important to look at the bottom line rather than some theory or biochemistry research.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 02:04AM luv_gardening wrote:

Evie, sadly my lovely profits from the first 3 weeks went down the gurgler and I ended up with no profit or loss, so I'm working on a different approach before risking my capital again.  I've been battling early depression and didn't have the energy to read or respond to posts, but I'm gradually getting back to normal, I just don't want to use too much time here when I have other things to do.

I wonder if people like Abigail would benefit from hearing your story as you have certainly stood your ground about not having toxic treatments, as I too refused chemo after the first 2 rounds.  Yet we both realised that we had to choose between two or more toxins.  The cancer itself is toxic to the body and our life and the surgery was the least harmful compared to leaving the tumours there.  Then we needed to work out which of the other treatments were likely to save us from a worse fate.  It's never an easy decision and our cancers and bodies are different, yet we both went against our oncologists advice but only after properly informed research, not the extreme misinformation put out by many websites which leave out vital life saving information so they can push their distorted views.

Sadly our immune system cannot help us once the tumour has reached a certain point as the cancer actually utilises our immune system to grow larger.  Yes, it feeds off our immune system. This is the biggest myth put out by people, that eating right and boosting our immune systems will cure us.  The cancer has already found a way to beat it once we are diagnosed. That's why I agree with someone (LtotheK?) calling it a shape-shifter. I wish it were not that way and I eat well and take supplements in the hope that I can stop any cancer stem cells from developing into mets. But if you have a primary cancer large enough to feel then you are fighting a losing battle without surgery.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 09:01AM Kaara wrote:

JoyLiesWithin:  "If you have a primary cancer large enough to feel you are fighting a losing battle without surgery"  Everything I have read confirms this.  Mine wasn't large enough to feel, but I wanted it out anyway.  The thermography I am now going to have every six months will keep on top of any suspicious areas that might be developing within the breasts.  As far as mets go, I've already had a circulating tumor cell test done and it was negative...no circulating cancer cells that were large enough to be found.  Doesn't exclude micromets, but ND said diet and supplementation could help eliminate those by boosting the immune system to do its job.

Maud:  As far as my anesthetic for my surgery, I did have propofol because I asked, and my BS and I joked about it because it was what Michael Jackson overdosed on...my BS said "don't try this at home":)  It was great because I came out of it quickly with no SE's.  That VEGF factor that was mentioned in your post has me wondering if maybe that didn't cause my macular degeneration in my left eye to progress to the point that it is now, because that is exactly how it progresses, with the formation of new blood vessels that distort the macula.  Interesting...I will ask the eye doctor. 

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 10:15AM Ruby- wrote:

Believe me ladies, what I found in my previous post scared the heck out of me, I didn't go under once, but twice in a matter of weeks Frown for margin revision.  I remember the second time, the nurses panicked and I woke up with the oxygen mask on my face.  Joy and Eve, I really want to believe it's not true, but those studies ...and the low success rates....and all the progressions and recurrences - how do you explain those ?

Treatment may fuel cancer's spread, study finds

"The repopulation and progression of tumors after anti-cancer therapy is a well-recognized phenomenon," the researchers wrote. "It has been shown to occur following radiotherapy, chemotherapy, and surgery.

Higher levels of TGF-beta after treatment may be a way to predict which patients are likely to have their cancer come back after treatment, Arteaga said"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/04/06/us-cancer-spread-idUSN0523151220070406

I sure hope I was given anti TGF-beta meds along with chemo, but because my onco likes to keep me in the dark, I may never know 

Kaara, your doctors sound really progressive, lucky you ! 

Joy said: "the cancer actually utilises our immune system to grow larger. Yes, it feeds off our immune system" and that explains why the neuro is looking for a yet undetected tumour(s).  He wants to rule out PND where "antibodies against cell surface or synaptic proteins, may occur with or without tumor association".  Unless and until they find the tumour(s) and remove them, my neurological condition will likely deteriorate, it's a race against time.

_____

One great find - I had not seen this video made by Dr.Servan-Schreiber

www3.mdanderson.org/streams/Fu... 

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 10:41AM Kaara wrote:

Sometimes I could just scream from all the conflicting evidence out there.  I just read a report that the metal cadimum is responsible for an increased risk for bc in women.  I tested high for this metal in my body.  The highest sources of this metal come from...guess where...vegetables and whole grains, from the fertilizer used to grow them. That makes it all the more important to eat only organic fruits and veggies when consumed in amounts like I am doing, and then you can only hope and pray.

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

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