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Topic: Alternative Treatment

Forum: Alternative Medicine —

This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.

Posted on: Aug 8, 2011 10:32AM

dougbrimor wrote:

Has anyone used alternative treatments such as Lorriane Day, Chris Beat Cancer, The Hallelujah Diet and skipped the cookie cutter 6 weeks of radiation and five years of Tamoifen?  I am so confused , even the 2011 cancer book that the radaition department gave me in my red folder states that radiation can cause a second cancer, that they are working on improving these satatics.  I read the whole book cover to cover and was just blown away by what they are admitting of these chemicals.  Anyway, would like to know if anyone else is swinging on this bridge?  Thanks

Dx 7/18/2011, <1cm, Stage I, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 17, 2012 11:20AM luv_gardening wrote:

Eve, thanks for the vote of confidence. I've been off here for awhile but have come on to follow your progress.  You've had such a trying time.  It's good to see you working out treatments on your terms.  I'm sure that a sense of empowerment is important in recovery and I'm hoping you can one day put these treatments behind you and give your time and attention to living your life and enjoying your loved ones.

Hi Kaara, Thanks for lending your support.  I wish we could all reach out through the screen and share hugs and chats over a nice drink of tea, coffee or herbs. 

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 17, 2012 06:35PM Luna5 wrote:

JoyLiesWithin ... I agree with you ... surgery was an easy choice vs chemicals and continued follow-up.  I probably did overkill with the Hysty/ooph but the thought of more scans ... (yes, I know cancer can happen in the areas that used to have parts but then I would just consider myself mega unlucky)  I think ... if you can cut it out - cut it out.  The big decisions are what additional treatments/supplements you want. 

These threads have taught me that there is no one protocol.  Even with mainstream medicine re: statins ... no holistic doc including my dog's holistic vet would ever think you should take statins ... yet mainstream docs including my daughter think if you have high LDL you should be on a statin.

Soooooo breast cancer docs are even more "all over the map".  My oncologist wanted me to do chemo and not do OncotypeDX.  Others on here from all over the world have oncologists who think they should not do chemo with much higher OncotypeDX scores than I had.

Unfortunately, there is no one right answer.  But, I personally have chosen surgeries and supplements and total change in food, liquids, exposures, etc. over chemicals.

Bi-Lat Mast, Hysty/Ooph, OncoType DX 0, No Tamox, No AIs,No Chemo, No Rads, We can all make informed choices without making the same choices. Dx 4/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 17, 2012 07:39PM abigail48 wrote:

joy, thnka for your concern.  I have no primary care physician or surgeon, I don't do allopathy.  I'll be 75 the end of may, knew nothing about all this when the evidence began, I expected to be dead before the date set a year family reunion, lo!  I'm okay almost 7 months from then, 48 years since I got the cysts from 1st type mexican estrogen.

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Mar 17, 2012 07:45PM abigail48 wrote:

in my favoriet weeky newspaper, the ava, there was an obit last week about a youn (40ies) woman who had sergery, radiation, chemo, was "okay" for 5 years then "it" returned & she was dead that year.  must be very uncomfortable to have it return after a mastectomy, for instance.  I'd like to see if I can best that wdoman't record without torture therapy, but in 5 years I'll be 80.  & with sergery I couldn't work.  I'm a painter, do to a long story I was unable to work for 10 recent years & just got back to it in 2010.  have 11 new oils!!

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Mar 17, 2012 07:52PM Kaara wrote:

abigale48:  In the end we have to do what we think in our hearts is best for us.  I wish you all the best.  Sending prayers and healing energy!

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 17, 2012 07:52PM sweetbean wrote:

Abigail, 

It sounds like your mind is made up, but if you don't have reconstruction, you'll be back to painting in a week.  (Reconstruction is the really painful part, most ladies say the mastectomy was not that bad.)

I don't know what your stage is, but I knew a Stage 1 woman who tried to get rid of her cancer without surgery and just using alternative methods.  Within 6 months, she was Stage IV.  She died in March 2011 at the age of 51. 

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ (FISH)
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Mar 17, 2012 09:31PM abigail48 wrote:

that will certainly help, kaara!!

I wouldn't be back to work in a week if my arm swelled.

I have no idea of the stage, jethro kloss said, I recently re-read him, he thought cancer spreads everywhere long before it's detected

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Mar 17, 2012 09:43PM Ruby- wrote:

Hi Abigail, 11 new oils, that's very impressive ! My prayers and thoughts are with you also.  

Does anyone know whether this is a myth or not ? I've always heard that when they open you up, contact between the cancer and the air makes it spread like wildfire.  Am gonna start googling to see if I can find anything.

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 17, 2012 09:50PM abigail48 wrote:

healing thoughts from me to kaara & maud also.

I've been thinking sulfur cream.  googled it:  dmso was mentioned.  dm is mint I think.  sulfur gream might irritate more.  my not very good apricot kernal cream helps a lot when I feel discomfort, usually when a weather frofnt is comming in.

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Mar 17, 2012 09:52PM abigail48 wrote:

we're all. everyone, is fighting, posponing death all our lives.  it's not as if we can evoid it.  we can do what we think sensible for our own situation, & live well as long as possible

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Mar 17, 2012 10:11PM abigail48 wrote:

juliaw2025  I was given a referal to a naturopath:  dr doni wilson.....dr doni.com.......I've not contacted her but I ran into her name & she specializes in women's health

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Mar 17, 2012 11:29PM - edited Mar 17, 2012 11:38PM by Ruby-

Well, I'm almost sorry I googled....Abigail, looks like you're being very wise 

Anesthesia directly related to recurrence 

Daniel Sessler, M.D., an anesthesiologist and chair of the outcomes research department at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, who has studied the topic but was not involved in the latest research, suggests that general anesthesia could weaken the body's immune system and its ability to kill tumor cells released into the bloodstream during surgery, therefore making the cancer more likely to return.

A similar study of patients undergoing surgery for breast cancer found that utilizing regional anesthesia in the form of propofol and a paravertebral block reduced the risk of recurrence or metastasis during the initial years of follow-up.

www.anesthesiazone.com/feature... 

"It might be surprising to learn that the presence of the primary tumor serves to inhibit the growth of metastatic cancer elsewhere in the body. The primary tumor produces anti-angiogenic factors which restrict the growth of metastases. These anti-angiogenic factors inhibit the formation of new blood vessels to potential sites of metastasis. Regrettably, the surgical removal of the primary cancer also results in the removal of these anti-angiogenic factors, and the growth of metastasis is no longer inhibited. With these restrictions lifted, it is now easier for small sites of metastatic cancer to attract new blood vessels that promote their growth. Indeed, these concerns were voiced by researchers who declared that "... removal of the primary tumor might eliminate a safeguard against angiogenesis and thus awaken dormant micrometastasis [small sites of metastatic cancer].

As if the loss of angiogenic inhibition by the primary tumor were not enough of a problem, it turns out the surgery causes another angiogenic predicament. After surgery, levels of factors that increase angiogenesis-also known as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF)-are significantly elevated. This can result in an increased formation of new blood vessels supplying areas of metastatic cancer. A group of scientists summarized this research quite well when they asserted that "after surgery, the angiogenic balance of pro- and antiangiogenic factors is shifted in favor of angiogenesis to facilitate wound healing. Especially levels of vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) are persistently elevated. This may not only benefit tumor recurrence and the formation of metastatic disease, but also result in activation of dormant micrometastases"

www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/c... 

The flower that follows the sun does so even on cloudy days. ~Robert Leighton / The power that made the body heals the body. It happens no other way.

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 12:08AM luv_gardening wrote:

Abigail, I had a complete removal of lymph nodes on one side and sentinel node removal on the other side and more than 2 years later I have no swelling.  The woman you mention who was young probably had a more aggressive form of cancer which is most common in younger women.  The chance that yours is estrogen positive and would respond to an anti-hormonal is high.  You can do that naturally simply by eating half a large mushroom each day.  The larger ones are stronger, but they are just the common eating mushrooms, yummy too.  I ate them every day before the docs prescribed the pills.  There are other natural estrogen suppressors but my mind has gone blank.  Resveratrol from grape seeds is one, but red wine is not strong enough, it has to be concentrated.  Getting a biopsy to confirm the type of cancer would help but I can see you won't want to go there and I respect that. Some of the stage IV ladies have gone into remission just from tamoxifen or an aromatase inhibitor so it's possible the mushroom or resveratrol could buy you some time.   But in the end the cancer will find a way around anything we try as it's a shape-shifter.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 12:26AM luv_gardening wrote:

Maud, you have heard a rumour that has no basis in fact. Otherwise my ancestors who had BC removed in their 40's and 50's would not have died of old age in their 80's. Surgeons try hard not to cut through tumours in case any cells get into the blood although the chance of it spreading that way is not high. When a primary cancer is removed, if there are already mets that may be too small to find, they may start to grow faster due to factors you have highlighted.  But there are many other factors in play that may influence the outcome.  When a tumour reaches a critical mass, it will be seeding itself around the body and increase metastasis.  When a woman presents with stage IV BC they tended to leave the primary tumour and not operate, but new studies are showing that removing the primary cancer extends life so the old assumption may be wrong.

There are so many variables due to the type of cancer, how aggressive it is, different properties of the cancer etc. There are no hard and fast rules, except that a primary cancer left to grow will produce metastasis eventually and that will surely cause pain, disability, fear, inability to work, death and everything else that we fear from the surgery multiplied many times.

I'll look for the studies and put them up here when I find them but meanwhile, cancer surgery saves lives every day and is indisputable.  But of course I respect your right to that view and think a respectful debate about it is needed to help people make up their mind.

Peace and love to all, the greatest healer of all.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 01:01AM Hindsfeet wrote:

 I have a difficult understanding why any tumor remains in the body as it seems to be the manufacturing plant of the magligant cells.

joylieswithin comments: There are no hard and fast rules, except that a primary cancer left to grow will produce metastasis eventually and that will surely cause pain, disability, fear, inability to work, death and everything else that we fear from the surgery multiplied many times.

Thanks joylieswithin for coming back here...It's good to know someone like yourself who is studied gives the needed balance and help to all women coming to bco. BCO...NEEDS WHO YOU ARE. BTW...how is your new job coming along?

Dx 6/13/2014, IDC, 1cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Mar 18, 2012 01:09AM luv_gardening wrote:

Surgical resection of the primary tumor is associated with increased long-term survival in patients with stage IV breast cancer after controlling for site of metastasis.

 In this study of 409 women, those who had the primary tumour removed lived more than twice as long as those who didn't have the surgery.  So other factors come into play.  It's important to look at the bottom line rather than some theory or biochemistry research.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 02:04AM luv_gardening wrote:

Evie, sadly my lovely profits from the first 3 weeks went down the gurgler and I ended up with no profit or loss, so I'm working on a different approach before risking my capital again.  I've been battling early depression and didn't have the energy to read or respond to posts, but I'm gradually getting back to normal, I just don't want to use too much time here when I have other things to do.

I wonder if people like Abigail would benefit from hearing your story as you have certainly stood your ground about not having toxic treatments, as I too refused chemo after the first 2 rounds.  Yet we both realised that we had to choose between two or more toxins.  The cancer itself is toxic to the body and our life and the surgery was the least harmful compared to leaving the tumours there.  Then we needed to work out which of the other treatments were likely to save us from a worse fate.  It's never an easy decision and our cancers and bodies are different, yet we both went against our oncologists advice but only after properly informed research, not the extreme misinformation put out by many websites which leave out vital life saving information so they can push their distorted views.

Sadly our immune system cannot help us once the tumour has reached a certain point as the cancer actually utilises our immune system to grow larger.  Yes, it feeds off our immune system. This is the biggest myth put out by people, that eating right and boosting our immune systems will cure us.  The cancer has already found a way to beat it once we are diagnosed. That's why I agree with someone (LtotheK?) calling it a shape-shifter. I wish it were not that way and I eat well and take supplements in the hope that I can stop any cancer stem cells from developing into mets. But if you have a primary cancer large enough to feel then you are fighting a losing battle without surgery.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 09:01AM Kaara wrote:

JoyLiesWithin:  "If you have a primary cancer large enough to feel you are fighting a losing battle without surgery"  Everything I have read confirms this.  Mine wasn't large enough to feel, but I wanted it out anyway.  The thermography I am now going to have every six months will keep on top of any suspicious areas that might be developing within the breasts.  As far as mets go, I've already had a circulating tumor cell test done and it was negative...no circulating cancer cells that were large enough to be found.  Doesn't exclude micromets, but ND said diet and supplementation could help eliminate those by boosting the immune system to do its job.

Maud:  As far as my anesthetic for my surgery, I did have propofol because I asked, and my BS and I joked about it because it was what Michael Jackson overdosed on...my BS said "don't try this at home":)  It was great because I came out of it quickly with no SE's.  That VEGF factor that was mentioned in your post has me wondering if maybe that didn't cause my macular degeneration in my left eye to progress to the point that it is now, because that is exactly how it progresses, with the formation of new blood vessels that distort the macula.  Interesting...I will ask the eye doctor. 

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 10:15AM Ruby- wrote:

Believe me ladies, what I found in my previous post scared the heck out of me, I didn't go under once, but twice in a matter of weeks Frown for margin revision.  I remember the second time, the nurses panicked and I woke up with the oxygen mask on my face.  Joy and Eve, I really want to believe it's not true, but those studies ...and the low success rates....and all the progressions and recurrences - how do you explain those ?

Treatment may fuel cancer's spread, study finds

"The repopulation and progression of tumors after anti-cancer therapy is a well-recognized phenomenon," the researchers wrote. "It has been shown to occur following radiotherapy, chemotherapy, and surgery.

Higher levels of TGF-beta after treatment may be a way to predict which patients are likely to have their cancer come back after treatment, Arteaga said"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/04/06/us-cancer-spread-idUSN0523151220070406

I sure hope I was given anti TGF-beta meds along with chemo, but because my onco likes to keep me in the dark, I may never know 

Kaara, your doctors sound really progressive, lucky you ! 

Joy said: "the cancer actually utilises our immune system to grow larger. Yes, it feeds off our immune system" and that explains why the neuro is looking for a yet undetected tumour(s).  He wants to rule out PND where "antibodies against cell surface or synaptic proteins, may occur with or without tumor association".  Unless and until they find the tumour(s) and remove them, my neurological condition will likely deteriorate, it's a race against time.

_____

One great find - I had not seen this video made by Dr.Servan-Schreiber

www3.mdanderson.org/streams/Fu... 

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 10:41AM Kaara wrote:

Sometimes I could just scream from all the conflicting evidence out there.  I just read a report that the metal cadimum is responsible for an increased risk for bc in women.  I tested high for this metal in my body.  The highest sources of this metal come from...guess where...vegetables and whole grains, from the fertilizer used to grow them. That makes it all the more important to eat only organic fruits and veggies when consumed in amounts like I am doing, and then you can only hope and pray.

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 11:24AM luv_gardening wrote:

Kaara, that cadmium study was awful.  They had such vague criteria for deciding if the women had more or less cadmium in their diets.  I wish they had measured the amount of cadmium in their blood instead, if that's possible.  Doesn't nearly everything come from fertilized soils, even meat from animals feeding on grains?  We need to find out just what it is about western diets or environments that increases cancer rates when people migrate from less developed countries.

Maud, so it seems you will have tumours removed if they can find them?  You mean with surgery or radiation?  There was some information on a thread some months ago stating the best way to minimize harm from surgery and anaesthetics for cancer patients.  Some are advocating surgery using local anaesthesia in the spine. Now that would send me into a panic!

The studies I quoted were for stage IV so progression is expected.  The important thing is to try not to let it get to stage IV by having surgery and other treatments while it's still possible to beat it.  

I see you also had chemo.  I'm confused as to why you're encouraging anyone with possible early BC not to have surgery if you've had surgery and chemo yourself and are planning more.

Remember, the bottom line is that people who have surgery have a chance of never having any recurrence though there is no guarantee.  Those who don't have surgery are doomed to die sooner than those who have had surgery.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 11:51AM - edited Mar 18, 2012 11:54AM by Ruby-

Joy, I'm afraid I may have been misunderstood...I am not encouraging anyone to not have surgery.  I was merely pointing out what I found out from googling re : cancer spreading from its contact with air during surgery.  There is an alternative to trad. anesthesia and according to Kaara, it worked out well for her.

Abigail chooses not to have surgery and I was telling her that in light of what I had found, given her age and status, she may be wise to proceed the way she chooses to proceed.  I am sorry if my words were misinterpreted.

I am no planning anything but merely going along with what the experts are telling me or not telling me....

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 12:12PM luv_gardening wrote:

I see. That makes more sense, though I'm too tired to make sense of anything at the moment.  Well I'm off to bed.  Stay well everyone.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 18, 2012 01:44PM - edited Mar 18, 2012 01:48PM by Hindsfeet

Joylieswithin, I am trying also to spend less time here at bco. I am limiting my time here and try not to get involved in a war zone or threads (with the exception of the her2 thread) that don't at present involve me. When I saw your name here of course I had to jump in :) Sorry your business adventure didn't work out as you planned. I'm working on a few things as well (outside my regular work), which is going slower than I like. The present cancer treatment is a deterrent as I'm wrestling with the side effects.  I'm not sure if I should continue with herceptin.

I agree with Joy in regard to surgery. Unless you are allergic to anestheia, I would take out the tumor cells. No matter what my health issues were, I would cut out the beast.  I've always said take out the bad spot on the apple. There are those here to whom feel once the tumor cells have migrated elsewhere there is no need to take out the tumor in that chemo will take care of it. If that were the case none of us would need surgery. I don't understand the logic of leaving a tumor in the body.

From what I understand, as Joy said and I learned from her some time ago is that cancer cells trick the immune system from attacking it. The cancer cells mutate with our DNA so our immune system actually protects it. This is why alternative doesn't always work and we need something more. The best thing to do is surgery. I'm not sure for stage 1a if I should do more and if what I am now doing maybe more harm than good. Especially since Joy said our immune system for early stage micromets destroys micromets. I wonder if it destroys the mircromets that has already mutated grade 3 HER2 +++ cancer cells? Or if those micromets are no longer regular cancer cells that everyone deals with everyday?

The reason again to consider Herceptin is that it locks onto the HER2+ receptors flagging the immune system to destroy any aggressive type of micromets. I also chose to do further treatment than surgery due to the 3 months between biopsy (cutting through the tumor) and the mx. Herceptin is toxic to the body. In the beginning I thought Herceptin only targeted cancer her2+ cancer cells but learned like chemo it locks onto all her2 cells. So, my questions at this point is .... in protecting myself from further cancer is it necessary to do the whole herceptin therapy? My gut says that half the treatments (3 to 6 months) should take care of any possible micromets...I see no need for a year long therapy putting the heart at risk and or lungs. It seems that those with advance cancer Herceptin is a life saver.

Like Joy said if the cancer was to have already migrated elsewhere then it's a major problem...my cancer was a palible lump. I'm hoping surgery took care of it, but there is always that lingering question to if it has gone elsewhere.

I've read many a testimony from other alternative sites and from people I know who've chosen alternative  (along with surgery) has been effective in NED. There of course are those who have done the whole chemo regrime who also claim to be NED. And both camps have those who don't make it.

Dx 6/13/2014, IDC, 1cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Mar 19, 2012 02:29AM luv_gardening wrote:

Evie, I know little about Her2+ or Herceptin but I'm sure you've thoroughly researched this.  I have seen someone say that there may be no benefit in continuing it for a year, but maybe that was you. I know you'll be satisfied that you've made the right choice.  I really hope your risk has gone down with the herceptin you've had.

People say, what if you have progression to stage IV, will you feel you've done everything? Well I can't say how I'd feel, but my chances of recurrence are high so I guess I'll assume it would have happened anyway.  I think if there were already early mets then they would be diagnosable by now, unless of course the tamoxifen has kept them at bay.  Also I eat plenty of fruit and vegetables and take some supplements and stay away from starch and sugar so I know I've done more than many in the same position.  Now I need to get back to exercise as I got lazy with the depression which zapped all my energy and enthusiasm.  

The best thing I could have done is find it earlier and get rid of it, but as it was hard to find and only showed on an MRI after I found the thickening, I didn't have a chance. That's why it's hard to watch anyone delay surgery though I know it's their right.  

Now that black cloud has descended again so I think I'll go and do some exercise and find something to cheer myself up.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 19, 2012 08:37AM Kaara wrote:

Joy:  This is why I am having the thermography...it catches suspicious areas long before they can be seen on mammogram...some five to seven years.  If they are caught and treated early with iodine supplements and other treatments, they will go away on their own, but many times an MRI will become necessary because a mammo or US would not show anything.  I will find out this week the result of my recent thermography.  This will become part of my screening, alternating with mammos.

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 19, 2012 09:45AM luv_gardening wrote:

Kaara, I haven't seen anything convincing about thermography, but it's worth a try as there was no warning that my mammogram wouldn't show Lobular cancer in most cases, or that dense breasts likewise could give false negative results.  Had I kept one breast they would have been advising me to have mammograms even though they failed me before. 

I paid for the mammogram to satisfy myself that the biopsy was correct as everything else was negative, even the CT scan which showed oedema only.  The MRI was very accurate but expensive. I hoped it would be a good guide for the surgeon in case the tumour was close to the chest wall so there was no chance of cutting into the tumour, but it was well clear anyway.

You're wise to vary your scans.  We need to be our own advocates as it's our lives at stake.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 20, 2012 12:28PM abigail48 wrote:

very very interesting, all.  esp about mushrooms, I eat them regularly & know wild ones, studied them for many years.

someone said her surgery was nearly painless.  I wonder at the aftermath.  I'm alergic to opiates

I also have a small celtic body, one size, say anathetics, doesn't fit all, but in my experience that;s what;s given.

recently I've been thinking ice.  I use it sometimes for the discomfort, works well, but I've been wondering if it;s ever used by medical people to zap the cancers

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Mar 20, 2012 01:04PM luv_gardening wrote:

Hi Abigail,  I'm pretty small too at 5' 1 1/2".  I believe anaesthetics are given strictly according to weight and highly monitored during the procedure. I'm pretty sure the anaesthetic forms need that information and lots of history, and they double check when you're wheeled into the area awaiting surgery.  Often the anaesthetist comes and greets you to reassure you that you're in the best hands. Well they did that for me anyway.  If there's anyone better informed, please let us know. 

You can opt out of opiates, in fact the medical staff are there to ensure you are catered to and bend over backwards to help.  I took all the painkillers offered so I can't really say if it hurt as I was high on morphine for the first day or two. I was ready to party!  I can't say there was much discomfort although it took a while to be able to lift my arms fully, but I could get them most of the way over my head after 7 days. You could go to a surgery thread and ask questions if you're unsure of anything.

I know many researchers have tried different ways to freeze or heat tumours to kill them, but there's nothing that's reliable yet.   The problem is always how not to damage surrounding tissues.  They're working on a way to inject metal nano-particles into the tumour and then heat them up via a machine that zaps the metal and leaves other tissues intact.  But it's in very early stages so could be 15 years away if it works. 

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 20, 2012 07:59PM abigail48 wrote:

wouldn't matter much if surounding tissue was harmed by freezing, if the alternative was scalpuls.  I'm 5/5 lost an inch somewhere along the way, but I have small bones, thin shape.  I've pretty much never had a good experience with conventional medical people, 7 several horror stories, I expect they perceive that I despise them.

I think shitake is one of the best curative mushrooms, It's widly available now & also in it;s dried form

since the flood in august we've had no supermarket & the owners keep leading us on.  since then my diet has gone downhill.

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