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Topic: Alternative Treatment

Forum: Alternative Medicine —

This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.

Posted on: Aug 8, 2011 10:32AM

dougbrimor wrote:

Has anyone used alternative treatments such as Lorriane Day, Chris Beat Cancer, The Hallelujah Diet and skipped the cookie cutter 6 weeks of radiation and five years of Tamoifen?  I am so confused , even the 2011 cancer book that the radaition department gave me in my red folder states that radiation can cause a second cancer, that they are working on improving these satatics.  I read the whole book cover to cover and was just blown away by what they are admitting of these chemicals.  Anyway, would like to know if anyone else is swinging on this bridge?  Thanks

Dx 7/18/2011, <1cm, Stage I, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 20, 2012 10:43PM luv_gardening wrote:

Sadly I too had lost confidence in doctors and medical systems after my sister came close to death with an ectopic pregnancy that they denied, my husband was misdiagnosed when he was having a heart attack and again when his appendix had burst.  But I have also had some wonderful health care workers.  My medical oncologist is an angel.  So compassionate and understanding of my endless questioning and alternative research.  People are just people and they come in all varieties.

Applying heat or cold would be designed to kill the tumour so therefore if applied to the skin, would kill all tissues and leave a gaping wound.  But any tumour that didn't get the full treatment would continue to grow.  I'm sure someone in history has tried such barbaric methods to avoid cutting people open prior to anaesthetics but it didn't catch on.

I think the bottom line needs to be, how much and how long would you suffer if your (assumed) cancer spread, compared to the prospect of possibly clashing with health workers, getting scans and a biopsy to formally diagnose and decide on a course of action, pre-operative checks to ensure your heart, blood pressure etc are not going to cause complications, then getting the operation?  Then in about a month the surgery would be over. 

You aren't obliged to go ahead with any radiation or chemo although I'm not sure if that would stop the insurers from paying for the operation as we have a different system in Australia.  Then it would be over unless you are already stage IV.  Then you would have the doctors to deal with along with the pain, disability and fear to deal with for the rest of your life.

The hormonal treatments, whether medications or mushrooms, only last for so long if they work at all.  I guess you have to decide to be strong for just a month and get it over with, just grit your teeth and get that nasty thing off your chest.  You'll feel such relief not to be housing it in your body any longer.  And you might even meet up with a dear sweet health worker who sees your fear and holds your hand and cares about how you feel.  Sometimes such angels will slip notes to doctors to be extra kind.  After all, they do the job because they want to help people in your position.  Take a few deep breaths, tell yourself you'll only meet the best health workers and you might be amazed.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 20, 2012 11:00PM luv_gardening wrote:

In regard to the mushrooms, it's the common button mushrooms including the ones that have grown larger that have the anti-estrogen properties.  The other mushroom have many potential healing qualities but they're not strong aromatase inhibitors that you'd need every day in addition to any others you take. Also if you at least see doctors for a proper diagnosis, you will know if the cancer is estrogen positive and may respond to the aromatase inhibitors found in the button mushrooms.

Take care of yourself, I'm sure your loved ones want you around for a lot longer to enjoy your company.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 05:30AM abigail48 wrote:

I'm sure it's estrogenetic as the cysts came right after first using the new strong birth controll pills in 1964.

I don't care about bedside manner, I care about expertise.

by the way they say chemotherapy but what is the chemical used?

the wound from freezing would probably heal as that from surgery

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Mar 21, 2012 06:30AM abigail48 wrote:

I'd been hunting fpr this quote for a cojple of weeks:  just found it last night:  The practice of medicine is a thinker's art;  the practice of surgery, a plumber's.  Surgery is the cry of defeat in medicin.  -Martin H Fischer, 1944

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Mar 21, 2012 06:44AM sweetbean wrote:

I'm sorry but with all due respect,  I think that quote is really misguided.  Medicine can't cure everything, neither can surgery.  Sometimes surgery is what a patient needs, sometimes it's medicine.  How would medicine set a complex, compound fracture, for instance?  

(Also, 1944 was a long time ago - surgery has become much more sophisticated since then.) 

Dx 11/18/2010, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 2/15 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ (FISH)
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Mar 21, 2012 07:47AM luv_gardening wrote:

The chemotherapy depends on the type and stage, but is not used for lower stages.  Also there's a test that they can do on the tissue that gets sent away to decide the likelihood that chemo will work.  I think it's the oncotype test and many women have avoided chemo when it comes back with a low score.  We don't have it done in Australia so I'm not familiar with it.  I'm assuming you're in America?

Most women get three different chemo's infused together to start, every three weeks, followed by another one three times, three weeks apart.  But sometimes they start with chemo if they need to shrink the tumour before the operation.  If yours is that obvious it might be more advanced.  One advantage of that is you can see if the chemo is shrinking it and ask for a different one if it's not. 

You can find out more about different chemo's on the main information section of BCO, but if you get a diagnosis first, it might not even be cancer, or if it is you may not need chemo.  If the original cyst had been cancerous you'd be long gone. Maybe the cyst has just become infected.  For your peace of mind you really need to face up to what your options are before it's too late.  Then you will know what questions to ask and can look at all your options.

Unfortunately your quote is just one person's opinion.  Many would say that defeat is when someone just sits back and takes no action or inadequate action.   I once started a course in naturopathy and many people on the course had very set ideas without actually looking seriously at the facts.  Modern medicine is not perfect but it does save lives, including many on BCO.  Most people on these alternative threads use standard treatment to start then alternatives along with getting in good shape to give themselves the extra assurance that they're doing something and not just sitting back accepting fate.  So we're giving ourselves every chance, hopefully doubling our chances of long term survival.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 12:07PM abigail48 wrote:

the way they treat broken bones currently is lethal.  what they did brfore was good:  plaster casts.

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Mar 21, 2012 12:22PM exbrnxgrl wrote:

What is the current "lethal" treatment for broken bones?
Caryn

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Aromasin (exemestane)
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Mar 21, 2012 12:23PM abigail48 wrote:

by the way I have no health ins, always have thought it's asking for it.  also I live in a very rural place, pop about 300.  there is a hospital but the expertise of the doctors?

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Mar 21, 2012 12:27PM luv_gardening wrote:

Abigail, a plaster cast can't be put straight over a compound fracture.  If it's broken in more places than one, or poking out through the skin then it would be very serious or lethal.  Try taking a trip to India or other places where they can't afford surgery to see the results of a lack of health services due to third world conditions and economy.

I don't know where you're getting your ideas from, but they're terribly misinformed and your health and life are at risk as a result. I've had experience in both naturopathy and nursing so I'm pretty well informed and have a very balanced view, though some may not agree with that!

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 12:46PM abigail48 wrote:

I do live in the us

bone breaks must be set.  I've known several people with hip breaks got the metal stuff, dead within 3 years.

gary's been talking about the very estrogenic cadmium in fertilizers used on non organic grains & vegetables.  I wonder if the cadmium I use in oil paints coulf have turned the cyst bad.  I used all my tim boxes for bob's audio tapes but I've sent for another for the cad tubes.  I've also gotten into my stash of organic nori roll seaweed.  gary says can cheleate the cad out.

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Mar 21, 2012 12:57PM luv_gardening wrote:

Yes, when people break their hips they sometimes die soon after, though they are usually very old and with osteoporosis.  Without surgery they would all die and much much quicker. A plaster cast would be useless on a broken hip as the break is right in the joint and would never heal. My MIL lived more than 20 years after her hip replacement and died recently in her 90's.  It sounds like you're being influenced by someone who is distorting the truth to suit his or her own ego. 

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 01:18PM luv_gardening wrote:

I see that problems with some hip replacements and chromium from fertilizer are in the news at the moment.  No system is perfect but on the whole surgery saves lives all the time.  My brother and sister would both be dead from the ectopic pregnancy and appendicitis, which would also have killed my husband.  My mother would have lived with terrible pain from her problem for the last 20 years.  The person you're following may well be responsible for several deaths if people like yourself believe the *#$(@` he's spouting and refuse surgery.  He's taking things out of context for his own benefit.  You have a choice to check what he's saying and believe those who've got a lot more experience and knowledge than he has.

I'm off to bed now.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 01:33PM Ruby- wrote:

....don't know, I believe Abigail said she was over 70, old enough in my opinion to be making up her own mind.....she sounds very educated to me and did say she does not have insurance 

Abigail, I plan to detox from MRI radiation with chorella and spirulina, I'm sure they also chelate cadmium.  I also plan to start using EDTA chelation suppositories

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 05:37PM abigail48 wrote:

I make my own choices.

time magazine had an issue on cancer last year:  said that for breast cancer patience slash burn & poison, my terminology, "works" & what do they mean by that? only 37.5 percent of the time in patience over 60 years old.

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Mar 21, 2012 05:40PM abigail48 wrote:

& yes, of course, ectopic pregnancy & appendicitis need surgery, though when I get appendicitis I eat a bunch of potatoes & the pain flushes out.

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Mar 21, 2012 06:58PM candygurl wrote:

Maud thanks so much for posting the article about surgically-induced recurrence and metastasis. Isn't it disappointing that surgery, radiation, chemo and hormonal therapy, which are pretty much all the treatments that modern medicine has to offer us, can cause cancer. I have lost faith in allopathic medicine. It's too counterproductive to trust.  

Kara, I am having my first full body thermography scan in a couple of weeks.  My mama didn't raise a fool. I'm using every means possible to detect cancer where there is the greatest chance for survival. The current screening strategy is not enough to protect women from breast cancer.  Thermography is the only technology available that can detect angiogenesis. Like in Europe, in N. America thermograms should be added to every woman's regular breast healthcare.  I have learned the hard way that I can no longer be passive but must become proactive with my health. The "wait and see' attitude due to a negative or unclear mammogram is no longer acceptable in my mind.  

Abigail, I truly hope you find an alternative physician who specializes in cancer who will help you shrink the tumor with natural therapies and balance your hormones.  And if you do opt to have surgery, do your research. There are preventive strategies to prevent cancer metastasis. You sound like a very wise conscious modern woman.  Trust your instincts and again find a reputable alternative doctor and do what you know is safe for your 75 year old body.  

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Mar 21, 2012 09:49PM - edited Mar 23, 2012 11:46AM by luv_gardening

One has to look at the bigger picture.  How many who don't have BC surgery will die from it?  Unless they die from something else then it will progress and the cancer will kill them sooner rather than later.  If they accept modern medicine with all it's failings then those with early cancers that aren't too aggressive will probably live long productive lives.  Some will have an extra 10 to 20 years of life before the cancer kills them, but a few will die quickly due to aggressive cancers or complications.  If people choose to give up at the beginning due to misinformation then that is a terrible shame and a waste of a life, but not my business and I respect their right to make their own decisions. 

It grieves me to see people here continue the misinformation, gross distortion of facts and lack of logic that may cause someone to lose their life in a gruesome fashion. There's nothing I can do to change anyone's mind when they can't even understand basic physics and biology that is plain common sense.  Having factual knowledge is not the same as being able to work out problems logically.  You are all saying the equivalent of two plus two equals five and someone's life may be in danger as a result.

I guess it's just the order of nature that the weak shall suffer, usually due to their own actions. I agree that a good reputable naturopath needs to be consulted and if they don't recommend urgent medical diagnosis with a doctor then they should not be practicing.  

My dad died from pancreatic cancer at 76 so I guess 75 is a pretty good innings. I wish you all peace and contentment.

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 09:53PM Ruby- wrote:

Zuvart, you're welcome - scared the hell out of me though  -had never been warned about any of this by my docs Frown There must be some wisdom in the saying that ignorance is bliss....I can only predict that future decisions will be harder to make the more I become educated about this whole cancer business

I have a question for you guys.  Let's say a thermography detected suspicious areas, how would you present this to your onco?  I know my BS totally dismissed the test when I mentioned it to him and my onco....well, he is soooooo dismissive, I can't even imagine what he would say.  Maybe, I'll test the water and point blank ask him what he would do if I were to present him with a suspicious thermography.  I can almost hear him say on his pedestal 'What's that !!???" Yell

If thermography results are not accepted by mainstream med and an hypothetical tumour is too small to be detected by mammography, scans or MRIs, what then ? 

Kinda tired, so I hope I'm making sense Lol 

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 21, 2012 09:55PM luv_gardening wrote:

Zuvart, you said  "There are preventive strategies to prevent cancer metastasis."

Please share your wisdom with us.  

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 22, 2012 08:09AM abigail48 wrote:

how old are you lies within?  I think too young to remember therapies in the past

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Mar 22, 2012 09:03AM luv_gardening wrote:

I remember as a teenager seeing someone in hospital with her leg in traction so her thigh bone would knit together properly.  The sight of the metal going through her flesh was scary but she soon got used to it. She had come off a motorcycle so was grateful to be alive. My brother had the same fracture later on but they'd figured out a way to avoid the traction.  As a nurse I saw a lot, and my aunt was also a nurse and told us how things used to be.  One of my uncles was one of the first to receive a new drug called penicillin for his war wounds. It was being trialled directly on casualties. I discovered when nursing that most people have an interesting life story to tell.  Do you have one?

My age is pretty irrelevant as I can study history.  I read a lot.  I'm in my 60's but feel 10 years younger tonight as I finally coloured my hair and bought a hair styler that gives my thin hair a lot more volume.  People were calling me elderly with my old grey thinning hair! 

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 22, 2012 09:05AM - edited Mar 22, 2012 09:12AM by Ruby-

JLW, I'm taken aback by your biting tone "show a lack of basic intelligence" ????

"If they accept modern medicine with all it's failings then those with early cancers that aren't too aggressive will probably live long productive lives. Some will have an extra 10 to 20 years of life before the cancer kills them, but a few will die quickly due to aggressive cancers or complications"

Now, that's quite a sweeping statement if I ever saw one !

ETA, weird.....JoyLiesWithin never said she was a nurse, a lot of her previous posts mentioned that she would have liked to have been given the opportunity to have an education.....the tone.....so unlike Joy.....  

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 22, 2012 09:09AM Kaara wrote:

My son broke his femur bone racing a motorcycle.  When we got to the hospital, the doctor in emergency was just getting ready set his leg and he had to pull it into place.  He had to have major surgery to put pins and a rod into the leg so he could walk again.  The doc said otherwise he would have been crippled and one leg would have been shorter than the other.  My DS is very tough, and he was crying out it hurt so bad!  I thought he would never get back on a motorcycle again, but of course he did and had yet another accident giving him road rash:(  

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 22, 2012 09:12AM abigail48 wrote:

jlw:  some of that color stuff is toxic.  I've not cut my hair since 1967 or colored it since henna rinces in hithschool.  I wear a cap to try & hold some color, which I still have a bit of.  little bit.  & yes, pennicillin is good stuff, it's what, alas, kept me in the allopathic mode for many years when it cured a strep in college.  despite many horror storries before & after. 

they havn't always had titanium bones, & people didn't spend the rest of their lives in bed after a hip break.  casts were from the waist.  pretty weak when you came out of them but the fix lasted unlike the titanium which mostly lasts only 10 years or so if it doesn't kill you.

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Mar 22, 2012 09:16AM luv_gardening wrote:

Actually I was 16 when I was in hospital having a bone operation and met the motorcycle girl.  Her boyfriend had died in the accident so she was pretty distraught.  The no 1 hit in England was the Beach Boys, Good Vibrations. One of my all time favourite songs. The Monkeys were also having a hit with Hey Hey it's the Monkeys.  I preferred some of their other songs.

That should help you work out my age now.  I wonder if you can get there without any help?

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 22, 2012 09:16AM abigail48 wrote:

oh dear, kaara.  my true love was a biker, dead now almost 5 years & not from the bike.  He didn't ride the last several years & my stress level went down a lot, but I wonder now if it would have been better had he rode.  these warrior men:  their riding keeps them on an even keel perhaps

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Mar 22, 2012 09:27AM Ruby- wrote:

My brother when little almost died because of penicillin, he spent weeks in the hospital as he went into acute anaphylactic shock : severe allergies to that med are not uncommon

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 22, 2012 09:39AM luv_gardening wrote:

Yes Maud, my mood certainly takes a dive when I think people are likely to needlessly die when a little thoughtfulness could help sway them.  There have been too many deaths on these boards lately and it's been getting to me so please excuse me if I'm just human. 

There's no shame in not being in the higher range of intelligence.  I have a niece who has a learning disability and she's the most lovable girl.  Well, a young woman now. People who don't have logical abilities often have talents in other areas and there's no better or worse way to be in my eyes. The problem comes up when people don't realise their limitations and make life or death decisions based on their limited logic or knowledge.  My upset is that there may be limited time to take action and I feel powerless to help.

As far as my education goes, nurses training happened in the hospital back then and didn't have the same standing as a university education.  I dropped out before qualifying due to the stress and my difficulty with practical tasks. I hated the authoritarian attitude on the wards but I loved the patients.  I'm such a clutz and got muddled with things even though I topped all the theoretical exams. If my life depended on my ability to cook then I'd be waving goodbye. I know my limitations. My sister is a lot younger than me and is lucky to have trained in a university so she has a degree.

So Maud, what's your interesting life story? 

Dx 7/2/2009, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 9/24 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 22, 2012 10:02AM abigail48 wrote:

I'm not allergic to pennicilin, as I am to opiates, & one of my main problems with allopathy if the way theynend up killing you with those toxins, & most of them are addicts too so no blame I guess, i remember wanting to share the pleasure when I was a heroin addict.  but it's really not a pleasure.  it's itchy & constipating.  like all things the natural endorphines are pleasurable, but you have to wait for them. 

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