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Topic: Root canals & breast cancer

Forum: Alternative Medicine —

This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.

Posted on: Apr 24, 2012 11:27PM - edited Nov 16, 2012 02:21AM by Moderators

norahamby wrote:

Let's take a poll: how many ladies have had root canal dental work and had breast cancer subsequently on the same side?

Dx 1/29/2012, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 25, 2012 10:53AM - edited Nov 25, 2012 10:59AM by NattyOnFrostyLake

Feel free to do your own research. It should take a couple of days at least. There is an upcoming medical conference that has a track on biological dentistry. It came through my email feed. It was the Functional Medicine people or some other big integrative conference. Maybe you could go if you would like to be schooled on the subject.

Good luck to you!

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Nov 25, 2012 12:00PM exbrnxgrl wrote:

Beesie,
Thanks for sharing those links. I really appreciate the fact that you share your knowledge and gift for research so freely. That's what a support forum is all about!
Caryn

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Aromasin (exemestane)
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Nov 25, 2012 05:59PM thenewme wrote:

Some people here are Hal Huggins/Weston Price followers and like to believe that root canals cause breast cancer, despite the fact that Huggins is a thoroughly discredited ex-dentist who had his medical license revoked for negligence.

I too have researched this a lot since my diagnosis, and have never found a single legitimate source showing a causative link between dental issues and breast cancer.  Mattygroves, perhaps you could share your sources of information for us all to benefit from?

In my experience, whenever you hear of "holistic dentistry" or a supposed link between root canals (or amalgam fillings, mercury, etc.) and cancer, it's almost inevitably from someone marketing or selling unproven or disproven quackery.   They use fearmongering, conspiracy theories, and unscientific talking points to promote misinformation.

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 25, 2012 07:57PM juniper wrote:

I concur with others.  Natty, please provide links or references to credible sources that support the link between cancer and root canals.  

Dx 7/31/2007, IDC, two nonpalpable tumors, 5cm and 6cm, Stage IV (mets to mediastinal nodes), Grade 3, 18/18nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 25, 2012 08:26PM rosyFL wrote:

NattyGroves,

What do you mean by keeping a dead and rotting body part in the body .... what are you referring to, the root canal?

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Nov 25, 2012 09:30PM Mardibra wrote:

What was dead and rotting is eliminated by the root canal.

IDC and DCIS. Lumpectomy/AND 10/21/11. Chemo 12/1 - 3/15. UMX 4/13/2012. Rads completed 7/3/12. DIEP reconstruction to begin Jan 2013. Dx 8/31/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 7/10 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 26, 2012 05:15AM Momine wrote:

Weston Price, isn't that the raw milk guy? I think he is dead, but there is a whole org carrying on his ideas (most of which make little sense, in my humble opinion).

To add my story, I have never had a root canal. I had one filling done when I was 12, no other fillings. I got nasty, advanced BC diagnosed at age 47. So, whatever caused my cancer, I really doubt it was my teeth.

It is thought that inflammation can play a role in cancer. So, it is certainly possible that if you have bad teeth (and therefore root canals) you may have ongoing inflammation issues in your gums/jaw. But that would still not make the root canal the cause of the cancer. The inflammation would be related to both, however.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/19/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/12/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/8/2012 Surgery 3/7/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 3/31/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Nov 26, 2012 07:20AM meglove wrote:

Thanks for all the research links. I will need to read more about them. I had one in Sep 2009 then had BC on the same side in April 2010. My sister just had too root canals this fall. I am so hoping there are no real connections!!!

Invasive mucinous + DCIS 3*2.8*2.5cm gr 2, dx 08/07/10 (38 ys), BMX 10/18/10, 0/1, ER+/Pr+, HER2+ DD AC 4 Tx first on Dec 9th then DD Taxol 4 Tx finished on 03/17/11. Herceptin finished in 02/12. Tamoxifen started on 04/15/11. Total hys 12/03/12.
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Nov 26, 2012 09:07AM dogsandjogs wrote:

boy momime are you lucky--ihad my first cavity at age 6 - despite rarely having sweets- and things just got worse thru the years despite brushing and twice a year check ups: root canals, crowns, gum surgery, extractions, tons of cavities- last check up had 5 cavities and i need a crown too- after my arm heals - i dont want any more discomfort right now----

Dx 11/1982, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/17 nodes Surgery 11/17/1982 Lymph node removal: Right; Mastectomy: Right; Reconstruction (right): Nipple reconstruction Dx 11/15/2010, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+ Surgery 2/11/2011 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel
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Nov 26, 2012 09:38AM Momine wrote:

Dogs, I was obviously born with iron teeth, my dad is the same way. I was also lucky to grow up in Denmark, where we have dental clinics in the elementary school. All childhood dental care is done at school and is thorough.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/19/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/12/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/8/2012 Surgery 3/7/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 3/31/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Nov 26, 2012 10:28AM dogsandjogs wrote:

i left denmark at 11 so----

Dx 11/1982, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/17 nodes Surgery 11/17/1982 Lymph node removal: Right; Mastectomy: Right; Reconstruction (right): Nipple reconstruction Dx 11/15/2010, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+ Surgery 2/11/2011 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel
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Nov 26, 2012 10:55AM Momine wrote:

Dogs, shoot, that's right. Sorry, my chemo brain ...

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/19/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/12/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/8/2012 Surgery 3/7/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 3/31/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Nov 26, 2012 12:44PM Alicethecat wrote:

Thank you Beesie for your links

This one in particular that you mentioned seems to look at both sides of the mercury rising - if you'll forgive the pun!

www.northsidedentalcare.net/bl...

Best wishes

Alice

Dx 1/4/2012, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER-/PR+, HER2+ Surgery 2/7/2012 Mastectomy: Right Targeted Therapy 7/18/2012 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Radiation Therapy 10/3/2012 Breast, Lymph nodes
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Nov 26, 2012 08:20PM juniper wrote:

I have not seen any negative or uninformed posts.  Those of us that are questioning the Truth have simply asked for credible sources as we have not been able to find them.  I cannot believe that the connection is real without a credible source, especially from someone who has not had to deal with breast cancer.

Dx 7/31/2007, IDC, two nonpalpable tumors, 5cm and 6cm, Stage IV (mets to mediastinal nodes), Grade 3, 18/18nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 26, 2012 08:26PM YramAL wrote:

Natty seems to be witholding her "factual research" from us...in my limited experience with her, however, she seems to be the expert on everything.

Mary-Oncotype Score 11 Dx 12/7/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 26, 2012 08:29PM exbrnxgrl wrote:

Ditto, Juniper. "The Truth" may be out there but no one has provided credible sources. The best we've gotten from those who believe "The Truth", is an urging to do our own research. If the research is out there it would be a mitzvah to share that knowledge.
C.

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Aromasin (exemestane)
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Nov 26, 2012 08:44PM Mardibra wrote:

No need to remind me to do my homework.  As I mentioned earlier, I did the research and I found nothing credible.  

"...if one person is helped by people like NattyGroves's intelligent comments and factual research, then that would be a gift from Heaven..."


Can someone point me in the direction of the intelligent comments and factual research regarding a connection between BC and root canals?  Im dying to read up on it.

IDC and DCIS. Lumpectomy/AND 10/21/11. Chemo 12/1 - 3/15. UMX 4/13/2012. Rads completed 7/3/12. DIEP reconstruction to begin Jan 2013. Dx 8/31/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 7/10 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 26, 2012 08:45PM YramAL wrote:

Wait! I've had several bladder infections over the years, and I've had ear infections and bronchitis. There must be some connection between those ailments and BC. I've had a pedicure every 6 weeks or so...maybe there's a connection there as well.

Pshaw.

Mary-Oncotype Score 11 Dx 12/7/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 26, 2012 09:58PM Beesie wrote:

"This is for all the negative, uninformed posts...If you really care about helping others to find answers to the cause of their Breast Cancer then you need to stop posting on this site."

"Like I said.....move to another topic!"

Excuse me? I have had breast cancer.  Dental, you have not.  For close to 7 years, I have done a ton of reading about breast cancer, I've dug through hundreds of research studies on breast cancer, I have been on this site learning from others and I've tried to offer support and advice to those who are not yet diagnosed or who are newly diagnosed and scared. How much do you know about breast cancer?  What's your experience with it?  You came here 3 months ago with the specific objective of raising fears about a theoretical connection between breast cancer and root canals and your only posts have been posts that fear-monger on this subject. The reason I commented in this thread a few days ago is because it's become quite clear that some women are being very frightened, some even to the point of action (action that over the long term they might regret) by your posts and the posts of Rawgirl, who also appears to have joined this forum solely for the purpose of fueling concerns about a possible root canal-breast cancer connection.

Dental, I care about other women who have been diagnosed with breast cancer.  I have been in their shoes.  It is scary enough to be diagnosed with breast cancer; on top of that you don't need to have people adding to your fears by telling you that you may have caused your cancer because of something you did - a simple, common procedure such as a root canal.

Many of us have been asking for the supporting data on the connection between breast cancer and root canals. I have searched high and low for the supporting data. It doesn't seem to exist. I have nothing against an open discussion about the possible connection between root canals and breast cancer, but if this is a real issue and a real concern, the discussion needs to go beyond theory. For you to suggest that I, and the others here who have been questioning the breast cancer-root canal connection, should stop posting in this thread (or on this site) simply because we are asking for data to support the contention that root canals cause breast cancer, is simply outrageous.  It seems to me that if you had any supporting data, you would provide it. Of course you would. So suggesting that we contact the ADA ourselves is simply your way of diverting the discussion, your way of saying that you don't actually have any scientifically reliable data to support the theory that breast cancer and root canals are connected.

I do understand that there might be a connection between infection and inflammation and the development of cancer.  But if that proves to be the case, then as Momine suggested, it's possible that the inflammation caused by the initial infection in the tooth is culprit, not the subsequent root canal that was done to clean out the infection.  

And if anyone is wondering what caused their breast cancer, unfortunately in most cases it's impossible to know.  There are dozens if not hundreds of possible causes, and for each of us, the cause was likely a unique combination of genetics, personal lifestyle and environmental factors. What is known is that the single biggest risk factor for breast cancer is being a woman. 

“No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” Edmund Burke
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Nov 26, 2012 10:00PM juniper wrote:

Dental,

How would the ADA know which people have root canals and have breast cancer?  What answers are you waiting for?  Are you suggesting that IF the ADA could track people who developed breast cancer after having a root canal would be credible proof that there is a correlation between BC and root canals?  That's naive and would not be an answer for you.  

Before you suggest that I don't think such a link is important, I should point out that I have three root canals.  One was several years prior to my diagnosis.  Two were post treatment for breast cancer.   I would be thrilled if it turned out that my root canals had something to do with my cancer.  But before I pull my teeth that are causing me no other problems, I would like something other than opinions, poor science, or a trite "believe me I know it's true".

Dx 7/31/2007, IDC, two nonpalpable tumors, 5cm and 6cm, Stage IV (mets to mediastinal nodes), Grade 3, 18/18nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 26, 2012 10:14PM Mardibra wrote:

Dental doesnt even have BC?  And you want us to move on?  

IDC and DCIS. Lumpectomy/AND 10/21/11. Chemo 12/1 - 3/15. UMX 4/13/2012. Rads completed 7/3/12. DIEP reconstruction to begin Jan 2013. Dx 8/31/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 7/10 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 26, 2012 10:24PM exbrnxgrl wrote:

Beesie and Juniper, you took the words right out of my mouth (but my teeth remain).
Caryn

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Aromasin (exemestane)
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Nov 26, 2012 10:44PM YramAL wrote:

Thank you Beesie. You are, once again, the voice of rationality.

Waiting for the predictable scolding by NattyPatty.

Mary-Oncotype Score 11 Dx 12/7/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 26, 2012 11:01PM Beesie wrote:

Dental, further to juniper's point, finding out the statistics for the percent of women who've had BC who've had root canals in the past 5 years won't tell you anything.  A single number, with no basis of comparison or point of reference, tells you nothing. So you'd also have to find out what percent of women - whether they've had BC or not - have had root canals within the past 5 years. You'd also have to ensure that you compare groups of women who are statistically the same in terms of age, other breast cancer risk factors, etc..

You could do all that and you know what you are going to find out?  That a lot of women who've been diagnosed with breast cancer have also had root canals.  You'll also find out that a lot of women who've never had breast cancer have had root canals.

Approx. 290,000 women will be diagnosed with BC this year in the U.S. (invasive + in-situ).  http://www.cancer.org/cancer/breastcancer/overviewguide/breast-cancer-overview-key-statistics

Every year, approx. 15 million root canals are done in the U.S.. Women are 50.8% of the population, so we can assume that every year, 7.6 million women in the U.S. have a root canal.  Over 5 years, that's 38 million women having a root canal, although some will have had more than one root canal, so the actual number of women will be lower - maybe somewhere in the range of 30 to 35 million. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dispelling-myths-of-root-canals-through-education-118582094.html

The question you posed is:  Of the 290,000 women diagnosed with BC each year, how many were also part of the 30 to 35 million women who've had root canals over the past 5 years?  When you look at it that way, it's pretty easy to see that you are going to find that a large percentage of women diagnosed with BC have had root canals.  But it doesn't mean that there is any connection at all between BC and root canals. 

“No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” Edmund Burke
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Nov 26, 2012 11:30PM Cowgirl13 wrote:

You mean dental does not have breast cancer?  I can't believe that.  I was just saying to myself the other day that the boards have been really nice the last several months.  I hate it when someone just tries to stir it up.  Its like get a life or go do some volunteer work where you can do some good.  



Beesie, thank you for your comments (as always) and for pointing all the good stuff about the facts.

Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the floor each morning the Devil says: 'Oh crap! She's up! Dx 5/28/2009, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ Surgery 6/17/2009 Chemotherapy 8/2/2009 Carboplatin (Paraplatin), Taxotere (docetaxel) Radiation Therapy 12/21/2009 Hormonal Therapy 2/22/2010 Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Nov 27, 2012 12:02AM juniper wrote:

Or - what Beesie said Smile

Dx 7/31/2007, IDC, two nonpalpable tumors, 5cm and 6cm, Stage IV (mets to mediastinal nodes), Grade 3, 18/18nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 27, 2012 01:23AM suzieq60 wrote:

More likely thyroid issues are associated with breast cancer than root canals. Lots of women on here with thyroid problems.

2nd diagnosis October 2010 - IDC 5.8mm node negative - missed on mammogram in October 2009 Dx 10/13/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 27, 2012 02:20AM Momine wrote:

Beesie, thanks for all the info. 

Suzie, yes, I think there may be a connection to endocrine issues. There are also many women here who had some funk with blood sugar that didn't amount to diabetes, but was funky all the same.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/19/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/12/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/8/2012 Surgery 3/7/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 3/31/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Nov 27, 2012 03:08AM ali68 wrote:

Omg, two days to go before I have root canal and I'm very worried about the nerve pain and if it " does" cause breast cancer. I have my happy pills to take the night before and the morning but I'm trying to think of a way to get out of it. My DH is going to take me so I will not chicken out.

This is so silly with what I have been through but yet I'm scared.

Can I have a glass of wine with the happy pills as well ( joking)

Dx 12/7/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, 9/32 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2- Chemotherapy 1/12/2012 Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 6/18/2012 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left, Underarm/Axillary Hormonal Therapy 7/24/2012 Radiation Therapy 8/1/2012 Breast, Lymph nodes
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Nov 27, 2012 03:31AM 1Rawgirl wrote:

Beesie,

I came to this discussion board because I was diagnosed with Fibroadenoma. At the time, I was also dealing with candidiasis. Yeast overgrowth which is a precursor to cancer. I have been detoxing since 2008 as my immune system is over tasked and my digestion hasn't been normal!

So being the proactive person that I am, I went back to researching. My accupuncturist was the one who who kept bringing the connection to my mouth to my attention. She didnt say it could be cancer. But she knew about my tumor and my symptoms were not clearing up. I already removed silver fillings cause of what I've learned. But because my condition was not getting better, up & down with fibro, I was desperate and wanted to get to the bottom of what really is happening to my body! I waited a year to extract my RC cause I wanted to do my own research, get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions. And my doctors recommended I get them removed after many months of tests, tracking my symptoms, etc. I was scared. And mad that I had to remove RC that I paid thousands of $ to get them and also removed a lingual bar (permanent retainer installed after my braces were removed). But the more I did my research, the more it made sense to me. For my health.

Btw, my surgeon recommended I remove my tumor but opted out. As pain is a side effect after removing it. Am already dealing with fibro pain. So we both agreed to monitor in 6 months and see if it shrinks. It did! So I still have it and am continually monitoring it that it doesn't grow back.

Today, I am healing after my RC extractions. Checking my tumor on my left breast and believe it or not, it has shrunk. And I don't feel the fibro. Now it can come back. We'll see. But the chronic inflammation and overload on immune system is something i dont want. And I don't feel anymore. My surgeon showed me the abcess in my dead teeth. He basically said if a person had an infection on the tip of his finger, you wouldn't leave it on there as it can infect the whole hand. Same with a dead tooth. It's dead! It may not show symptoms right away. But the anaerobic bacteria, trapped bacteria is growing in there and antibiotic can't get to it as the nerves have been taken out. But the tiny tubules are still there where the bacteria grows.

Anyway, I share this in hopes someone may be interested since the topic is RC related to cancer. And again, for support. I'm new here and I'm not here to stir trouble. I'm looking for help and find like minded people who believe in allowing the body to heal naturally as it has ability to heal on its own. But it needs help. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. I just hope we can do it respectfully.

I have educated myself and done research thru Donna Gates' Body Ecology. And my bio-dentist who used to do RC most of his career until he learned the truth. We shouldn't believe everything we read or hear. That is why we should do our own research. And find doctors who have studied and researched it. And worked with patients dealing with what each one of us is dealing with. Below is one link that is balanced. He doesn't right off the bat say RC is not good. But he doesn't say it is either. He believes in educating his patients and letting them make an informed decision. That is what I did.

I can post more links tomorrow. It's getting late for me and kind of hard to do it on my phone. But I felt the need to explain myself as I am not here to instill fear. We all need to make a decision that is best for ourselves. I posted my experience to help another person on the board. That was it.

http://www.wholebodymed.com/library_education_details.php?pid=38

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