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Topic: Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally

Forum: Alternative Medicine —

This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.

Posted on: Aug 7, 2012 11:37AM - edited Aug 9, 2012 03:31AM by Natkat

Natkat wrote:

Hello please post here ONLY if you are researching or using natural tx to address hormone responsive cancer. Please stay on topic - no posts about standard drugs or ovary removal. No posts about general anti cancer. Thread for people who need alternatives SPECIFIC to hormone responsive cancers

Will share my own research and looking foward to hearing about yours
Thank you

Dx 6/2012, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+
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Aug 7, 2012 10:19PM - edited Aug 7, 2012 10:51PM by Ruby-

Hi Natkat, thanks for this thread - hopefully, your wishes will be respected

I'm two years post-treatment, took Tamox for 18 months, decided to discontinue because of severe SEs and possible endometrial cancer (had two scary AND extremely painful biopsies while on Tamox) and have been taking a DIM/I3C/Calcium D Glucarate/rosemary/turmeric combo for approx 6 months.  Am planning on adding chrysin, grape seed extract and olive leaf to my protocol.  Am also taking green tea extract.

I have to admit that pain and tightness are still bothering me but see it as a sign that the above is definitely working.  I no longer have to worry about secondary cancers though and my cognitive function has definitely improved (another nasty SE from Tamox) Smile

I have to emphasize that soy or any of its derivatives is NOT part of my arsenal.  Hopefully, this will not become yet another argument for the bean, as many other threads have done just that. I have read enough cons about it to keep it at arm's length.  Prior to my dx, I was taking genistein for premenopausal symptoms and I am certain it actually fueled my BC. 

I have tons of research I would like to share:

"Natural Aromatase Inhibitors

Nature has provided an abundance of aromatase inhibitors

You don't have to take drugs to inhibit aromatase. Nature has provided plants that will get the job done without harmful side effects. Research showed that chrysin worked as well to inhibit the aromatase enzyme as a drug designed for that purpose. Chrysin is normally taken as a supplement along with piperine which greatly enhances its bioavailability.

For those who would rather get their aromatase inhibiting flavonoids from whole foods, there are several good tasting choices. Beneficial compounds gotten from food have the added benefits of the perfect synergy found in a whole food as well as the other nutrients and compounds it contains.

Quercetin, naringenin, resveratrol, apigenin, genistein, and oleuropein are all powerful flavonoids from whole foods that inhibit aromatase while at the same time offering a treasure chest of other health benefits. When these foods are organically grown, they are higher in these flavonoids than produce grown conventionally.

Quercetin is the main reason an apple a day keeps the doctor away. It is a major antioxidant with important anti-aging benefits. It fights inflammation and reduces the cellular damage inflammation causes. By fighting inflammation, it also helps decrease swelling and pain, and keeps the circulatory system healthy. Quercetin helps prevent fatigue by helping to decrease damage from heavy exercise, and increase endurance. It is an anti-viral, and an immune system supporter and liver protector. Research has suggested that quercetin has other anti-cancer benefits aside from inhibiting aromatase in breasts and prostates. Cabbage, onions and garlic are other good sources of this powerful flavonoid.

Apigenin is a non-mutigenic flavonoid that has significant chemoprotective action against UV radiation. Research has shown apigenin reduces oxidative damage of DNA, inhibits the growth and induces differentiation in human leukemia cells, inhibits cancer cell transduction, and induces appropriate cell death. Like quercetin, apigenin acts as an anti-inflammatory and as an antispasmodic. Apigenin is found in good supply in celery, parsley, artichokes, basil, and chamomile.

Naringenin, is an antioxidant, free radical scavenger, anti-inflammatory, and immune system modulator. It has been shown to promote proper metabolism of carbohydrates. It was shown to reduce hepatitis C virus production by infected liver cells in cell culture and to inhibit the secretion of very low density lipoprotein by cells. As a cancer fighter, it reduces oxidative damage to DNA. Naringenin is found in all citrus and may be the reason that diets high in citrus are negatively correlated with heart disease. However, naringenin should not be obtained from grapefruit or grapefruit juice, which has an inhibitory effect on the human cytochrome P450 isofrom, another enzyme in the same complex as the aromatase enzyme. This enzyme is involved in breaking down and metabolizing sex hormones and preventing their excess accumulation in the body, so inhibiting it is not a good idea.

Resveratrol is a flavonoid gaining wide respect for its multitude of health benefits. Several recent research studies have revealed that resveratrol is highly effective against breast cancer by inhibiting ER positive and negative cell proliferation, cell cycle progression, and primary breast tumor growth. Resveratrol is protective of the liver even against alcohol. It also keeps the central nervous system strong by protecting neurons from oxidative stress. Resveratrol is found to some degree in the skin and seeds of red grapes. Muscadine grapes have the largest content and are often used to make red wine. Although supplements of resveratrol are popular and widely available, getting resveratrol from red wine allows you to get the entire grape polyphenol group of nutrients, a group that has been shown to work much better synergistically. Breast tumor growth and metastasis to bone and liver were shown to be better inhibited by the complete grape polyphenol complex.

Oleuropein gives olive oil its distinctive flavor and is found in abundance in the leaves of the olive tree. It is one of the reasons olive leaf is such a powerful tool for wellness. Oleuropein helps the body fight off viruses, bacteria, and fungi. It is contained in every part of the olive tree and is the basis of its defense from insects. Oleuropein has been shown to boost the immune defense of people too, as well as fostering a healthy balance between friendly bacteria in the intestinal tract. In animal research, oleuropein was shown to enhance nitric oxide production. It is also a potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory.

All these foods are prominent features of the Mediterranean diet

Fresh fruits, vegetables, olive oil and red wine are components of the Mediterranean diet, the one and only diet that has consistently correlated with lower death rates from all causes. Flavonoids from each of these foods inhibit aromatase activity to reduce incidence of breast cancer. And when you choose a diet that features these foods on a regular basis, what you are really getting is the best all around prevention plan on earth.

Natural products targeting aromatase gene promoters

With the clinical success of several synthetic AIs in the
treatment of postmenopausal ER-positive breast cancer,
researchers have also been focused onto the potential of
natural products as AIs [61]. These compounds (natural
products) are mostly obtained from terrestrial and marine
organisms and are still in the forefront of drug discovery.

http://www.rbej.com/content/pdf/1477-7827-9-91.pdf

Re : Apigenin 

Nutr Cancer. 2001;39(1):13947. Apigenin acts on the tumor cell invasion process and regulates protease production. Lindenmeyer F, Li H, Menashi S, Soria C, Lu H. Institut National de la Sante et de la Recherche Medicale, U553, Bat. INSERM, Institut d'Hematologie, Hopital SaintLouis, Universite Paris 7, 75475 Paris, France. 

35 Research abstracts at : http://www.lef.org/abstracts/codex/apigenin_abstracts.htm?source=search&key=natural%20aromatase%20inhibitors

On the role of lignans as estrogen blockers

Meta-analyses of lignans and enterolignans in relation to breast cancer risk.
Buck K, Zaineddin AK, Vrieling A, Linseisen J, Chang-Claude J.

Epidemiologic studies that examined whether lignans, the most important class of phytoestrogens in the Western diet, protect against breast cancer have yielded inconsistent results. OBJECTIVE: In this study, we conducted meta-analyses on the association between lignans and breast cancer risk. DESIGN: We performed a systematic MEDLINE search to identify epidemiologic studies published between 1997 and August 2009. We calculated pooled risk estimates (REs) for total lignan exposure, dietary lignan intake, enterolignan exposure, and blood or urine concentrations of enterolactone and according to menopausal and estrogen receptor (ER) status of tumors. RESULTS: We included 21 studies (11 prospective cohort studies and 10 case-control studies) in the meta-analyses. Lignan exposure was not associated with an overall breast cancer risk (RE: 0.92; 95% CI: 0.81, 1.02; P for heterogeneity = 0.004).

However, in postmenopausal women, high lignan intake was associated with a significant reduced risk of breast cancer (13 studies; RE: 0.86; 95% CI: 0.78, 0.94; P for heterogeneity = 0.32). Breast cancer risk was also inversely associated with enterolignan exposure (4 studies; RE: 0.84; 95% CI: 0.71, 0.97) but not with blood or urine enterolactone concentrations. The associations were not significantly different between ER-status subgroups (6 studies).

CONCLUSIONS: High lignan exposure may be associated with a reduced breast cancer risk in postmenopausal women. Additional work is warranted to clarify the association between lignan exposure and breast cancer risk.

Estrogen Inhibiting Foods

Berries

Broccoli

Buckwheat
Cabbage
Citrus Foods
Corn
Figs
Fruits (except apples, cherries, dates, pomegranates)
Grapes
Green beans
Melons
Millet
Onions
Pears
Pineapples
Squashes
Tapioca
White rice

Flax seed's other primary ingredient we are emphasizing in this report is a group of phytoestrogenic compounds known as lignans. Flax seed contains 100 times more lignans than the next closest food. Lignans get broken down by intestinal bacteria into enterodiol and enterolactone, two mammalian lignans.

Lignans contain powerful anti-cancer fighting agents and are especially effective against breast, colon, uterus and prostate cancers by controlling the sex hormones in our systems. As one example, lignans seem to flush excess estrogen from the body. Research has just begun on this fascinating subject. Lignans also seem to have anti-fungal, antibacterial and anti-viral properties. Flax seed oil contains practically no lignans - you must eat the flax seed, first ground into a meal. Flax oil also is missing many of the nutrients needed to digest it. But these nutrients are located in the seed. Both from a health and economic standpoint, we suggest eating whole flax seed you grind yourself rather than the high priced flax seed oil.

Flax seed has been proven to markedly reduce cholesterol levels as effectively as oat bran and fruit pectin. This is probably due to it's unusually high levels of soluble and insoluble fiber. Flax's high quality fiber teamed with LNA and the rich lignans work together to build healthy blood lipid patterns.

"Biological Effects of Dietary Flaxseed in Patients with Breast Cancer." Abstract from the San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium - December 2000, Thompson LU, Li T, Chen J, Goss PE Nutritional Sciences, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada; Medical Oncology, Princess Margaret Hospital, Toronto, ON, Canada

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 7, 2012 10:35PM comingtoterms wrote:

Thank you for this thread. I took myself off of Tamox/Fareston over a year ago and since then have been anxious about the fact that I have absolutely nothing in my "recurrence prevention arsenal" other than exercise and eating healthfully! I didn't like the SEs of these meds and do not intend to return to them; however, despite A/C/T tx, I am still menstruating, albeit irregularly, at the age of 52, which obviously isn't good. I will relish this thread and all its info! Thank you! Tammy

Dx 1/9/2009, DCIS/IDC/IDC: Tubular/IDC: Mucinous/IDC: Cribriform, Left, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/27 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 7, 2012 10:44PM - edited Aug 7, 2012 10:50PM by Ruby-

I try to remember taking melatonin before bed - 

Melatonin suppresses aromatase expression and activity in breast cancer associated fibroblasts

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22237979

Melatonin inhibits naloxone-induced luteinizing hormone release

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9419836

Melatonin inhibits the growth of DMBA-induced mammary tumors by decreasing the local biosynthesis of estrogens through the modulation of aromatase activity

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16080194

Melatonin inhibits both ER alpha activation and breast cancer cell proliferation induced by a metalloestrogen, cadmium.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16635015

Estrogen-signaling pathway: A link between breast cancer and melatonin oncostatic actions

"At the level of he mammary tumor cell, melatonin will interact with the
estrogen-response pathway and will counteract the effects of
estrogens, thus behaving as a selective estrogen receptor
modulator, and it will regulate the activity of the aromatase,
the enzyme responsible for the local synthesis of estrogens,
thus behaving as a selective estrogen enzyme modulator.
The same molecule has both properties to selectively
neutralize the effects of estrogens on the breast, one of the
main objectives of the antitumor pharmacological therapeutics.

These actions at different levels of the estrogen signaling pathways, collectively, make melatonin an interesting anticancer drug in the prevention and treatment
of estrogen-dependent mammary tumors" 

http://www.unican.es/NR/rdonlyres/815C3433-0364-4AEC-88C1-0603D081B4A0/0/20Estrogensignalingpathwayalinkbetweenbreastcancerandmelatoninoncostaticactions.pdf

Melatonin inhibits estrogen receptor transactivation and cAMP levels in breast cancer cells

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11859872

Melatonin-estrogen interactions in breast cancer

"Conclusions:

Melatonin is a neurohormone with different actions which
include the down-regulation of the circulating levels of
gonadal estrogens. Simultaneously, melatonin works as an
antiestrogen with mechanisms of action different (and
probably complementary) to those of the commercially
available antiestrogens, and inhibits aromatase expression
in human breast cancer cells" 

http://www.unican.es/NR/rdonlyres/2F1C1362-4F39-4079-B978-41DA2175721A/0/13Melatoninestrogeninteractionsinbreastcancer.pdf

"Melatonin suppresses estrogen. There are melatonin receptors on the ovaries. 

In the case of melatonin, less is sometimes more. The 3 mg. tablet or capsule most commonly sold is meant as an anti-oxidant, not a sleep aid. It helps some people with sleep, but it causes insomnia in many others. I got better results by cutting a 3 mg. (three milligrams) tablet in half. Then I discovered a 300 mcg. (three hundred micro grams, one-tenth of the dose most readily available), and found that most effective of all. This is about what the pineal gland secretes, the so-called physiological dose. I think it's no accident that this is what works best. Imitating what nature intends is probably the best way of getting the body to cooperate"

http://www.mwilliamson.com/melatonin.htm

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 9, 2012 03:29AM - edited Nov 10, 2013 02:58AM by Moderators

Thank you for so much detailed and specific info!
LOL I am still in theoretical stage of research. So far there seem to be 2 theories on treating ER+ bc.

#1 Block or reduce the various estrogens (this is similar to conventional/corproate treatments but using herbs and diet to suprress estrogens)

#2 Treat estrogen metabolism (different philosophy says the estrogens themselves aren't the problem - but how our bodies metablize them)

I've not got very far into reasearching treatment protocols. although both theories assign value to diet rich in Brocoli & cauliflower.

The below article and excerpt suppy basic info on metabolic theory - although a bit simplistic and with a minor product sales pitch. I offer it as a simple intro only. I don't advocate the products etc.

www.womenshealthnetwork.com/default.aspx

and here is a very brief summary cut & pasted from their website:

5) Enhance your estrogen metabolism — and your detoxification pathways

There has long been hot debate over which hormones at which levels most affect our risk for breast cancer. (See my articles on the estrogen controversy and breast cancer and progestagens.) One of the strongest associations concerns higher levels of circulating estrogens in a woman’s body, particularly after menopause. What leading-edge research seems to point toward is how well we metabolize — that is, convert and excrete — estrogen metabolites in the body. And this means effectively transforming both the estrogens that naturally occur in our bodies and xenoestrogens, or those that your body encounters every day through your diet and environment.

Although we now know that heavy exposure to xenoestrogens can increase some women’s risk for developing breast cancer, we also know that one of the best means we have to change that risk is through our body’s natural detoxification pathways. We have the capacity to metabolically “cleanse” our own bodies, as well as the power to alter that capacity — for better or worse.

Most environmental toxins are flushed out through the gut, lymph system, and liver. But if toxins like xenoestrogens build up, they can block those natural transformational pathways and provoke a cascade of health issues, including weight gain, inflammation, and hormonal imbalance — which can in turn affect a woman’s risk of developing breast cancer. Should reactive toxins accumulate in our bodies, we may feel perpetually exhausted, bloated, irritable, or just generally unwell. Ridding the body of these toxins can be of huge benefit for breast cancer prevention.

Thank you to everyone researching and posting on this thread!

Edited by Mods to update link

Dx 6/2012, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+
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Aug 9, 2012 03:53AM Natkat wrote:

Here is a more scientific article on Estrogen metablism which seems to tie-in with some of Ruby's info about flavanoids.

http://www.funimky.com/research_estrogen.htm

Just as a side note: I avoid soy products #1 much soy is now genetically modified, #2 until I understand more about estrogens and cancer I am playing it safe. 
Also I limit flax seeds as they are often rancid.  Very difficult to assure they are fresh and I've gotten stomache aches from flaxseeds even tho they were organic and purchasd in nice health food store.  Even in best stores you have no guarantee they are not rancid due to shipping & storage conditions after harvest.
Although soy and flaxseed products are sometimes recommended in anti-cancer treatments, I look for other foods which do the same functions. Your mileage may vary.

Dx 6/2012, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+
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Aug 9, 2012 07:04AM Natkat wrote:

This is copied from another post on this sites Alternatives thread: (not sure how we are supposed to quote so I just cut & pasted)

D-glucarate is a natural subtance is found in apples, oranges, broccoli, spinach, and Brussels sprouts. To detox the toxic estrogens your liver joins it to glucoronic acid.  D-glucarate can inhibit an enzyme produced by gut bacteria called beta-glucuronidase that can break this bond and allow the estrogen to be recirculated from the bowel.

1-2 times per day I juice 750 ml of a mixture of greens and herbs, especially those that contain the phytochemical indole-3-carbinol because they are known to improve detox of environmental estrogen and improve the balance of all hormones. I always try to include watercress in my green juices.  Studies have shown that eating as little as three ounces of watercress reduced the presence of breast cancer tumors in just hours after consumption. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20...

Dx 6/2012, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+
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Aug 9, 2012 08:25PM purple32 wrote:

Great thread here .  Thanks.


I have  a large multinodular goiter and cruciferous vegs are goiterous...will make it grow .  MY endo dr suggested I avoid DIM for this reason.


Has anyone had success with other supplements  that are supposed to ' act like' an AL? I am post meonpausal w/many other health issues.  My primary reason for refusing the AL is osteo related.



STILL searching for the right alternative.

I have an appt with a ND soon, but I will be making my own FINAL decision just as I would with a mainstream DR. I would just like to understand and be as informed as possible.

Lymphedema on LEFT. NO radiation. 2 clean nodes. purple32. Hope is our light ... in the night. Dx 3/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/1/2012 Lumpectomy: Left
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Aug 9, 2012 09:32PM purple32 wrote:

Ruby

Thanks for all the links!
I'm not clear as to exactly what melatonin you take and also what dosge . Would you mind sharing?

THX

Lymphedema on LEFT. NO radiation. 2 clean nodes. purple32. Hope is our light ... in the night. Dx 3/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/1/2012 Lumpectomy: Left
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Aug 9, 2012 10:49PM Ruby- wrote:

Hi Purple, I read a lot of desperation in your posts. I hate the grief that this damn disease is causing us all.

I don't believe we can look at alternatives working the same way as conventional med, that is, take one pill and hope for the best. Alternatives work in combination and synergistically. If one were to add all of the above foods to their diet, either bio fresh or as an extract, it would go a looong way towards ensuring that estrogen is properly metabolized.

Re DIM & I3C 

 

These are the chemicals at play:

 

 http://www.slideshare.net/tppate/broccolinate

As far as I'm concerned, I have no qualms whatsoever taking DIM/I3C. My thyroid tests within normal range even though the endo thinks I'm leaning on the hyper side. Having been on DIM more than six months now, I'll soon have it tested again to see if DIM has had any effect at all and will let you know whether results have budged or not.

Furthermore, DIM is being researched not only for BC but for prostate, thyroid, lung, etc. etc. cancers. Many many sisters do take DIM and/or I3C for BC and they are very likely preventing thyroid cancer by the same token.

Tons and tons of extensive research on DIM for thyroid cancer, why not so much for BC ??????

"3,3'-Diindolylmethane, a cruciferous vegetable derived synthetic anti-proliferative compound in thyroid disease

DIM also inhibited the growth of primary goiter cells by 70% compared to untreated controls. Contrary to traditional belief that cruciferous vegetables are "goitrogenic", DIM has anti-proliferative effects in glandular thyroid proliferative disease. Our preclinical studies provide a strong rationale for the clinical exploration of DIM as an adjuvant to surgery in thyroid proliferative disease"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219298

"The effect of DIM on Neovascularization in Thyroid Disease

CONCLUSION: We have developed a murine model to examine the genesis of neovascularization in response to orthotopic implantation of follicular thyroid cells. Neovasculature is key in thyroid cancer progression and we expect that antiestrogen supplementation with dietary supplements such as DIM can affect disease outcome."

http://oto.sagepub.com/content/143/2_suppl/P74.2.full.pdf

"3,3′-Diindolylmethane Modulates Estrogen Metabolism in Patients with Thyroid Proliferative Disease: A Pilot Study

Our data suggest that DIM enhances estrogen metabolism in TPD patients and can potentially serve as an antiestrogenic dietary supplement to help reduce the risk of developing TPD. The fact that DIM is detected in thyroid tissue implicates that it can manifest its antiestrogenic activity in situ to modulate TPD"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048776/

'Estrogen Induced Metastatic Modulators MMP-2 and MMP-9 Are Targets of 3,3′-Diindolylmethane in Thyroid Cancer

Our observations provide for the first time, direct evidence for the estrogen/ER mediated regulation of MMP secretion and activity in thyroid cancer cells. Overall, these findings open a new avenue and clinical utility for DIM as the prototypical anti-estrogen that can be used for therapeutic and preventive purposes of thyroid proliferative diseases by not only suppressing the proliferation of thyroid cancer cells but also by inhibiting metastasis associated events."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3022654/?tool=pubmed


To answer your question re melatonine, since reading that less is more, I take a 1 mg tablet approx. one hour before bed and sleep like a baby Smile

Hoping the above puts your mind at ease 

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 9, 2012 11:36PM - edited Aug 9, 2012 11:46PM by Ruby-


Hello Natkat, thanks for the excellent abstract by Dr. Hall and you're absolutely right about the two theories Wink

Like you, I've been prudent with flax and decided to use Chia seeds instead.

http://www.rawreform.com/images/stories/pdf/chiacs.pdf

"The most important differences is flax has B Vitamins, is higher in omega-3's, potassium and slightly higher in zinc. Chia is rich in Vitamin A, is significantly higher in fiber, lower in fat, has no sugars, is much higher in calcium, iron and phosphorous. Chia is slightly higher in protein. 

Antioxidant "ORAC Value" of Chia

Dark Chia* 98 umole TE/g
Light Chia 70 umole TE/g

*This value represents the highest ORAC value of any whole food we know. ORAC is oxygen radical absorbance capacity, the most widely used measure of antioxidant activity. Data were generated from Brunswick labs, the most well-known ORAC testing lab.

Dark chia seed has the highest ORAC value of any whole food we know. As a comparison, whole blueberries have ORAC values that average around 68.

The takeaway message is that eating UNGROUND chia seeds results in substantial increases in serum omega-3 fatty acids and antioxidant capacity in the blood. This is in contrast to flax, which should be ground to be properly absorbed"

"Anticancer effects: There is preliminary evidence that the oil from Salvia hispanica seed may be an effective anticancer agent. A diet supplemented with chia oil reduced tumor growth and metastasis in a mouse model of mammary gland adenocarcinoma (7). Mice were fed control diets or diets supplemented with either Salvia hispanica oil or safflower oil. The diets supplemented with Salvia hispanica oil significantly reduced tumor mass and metastasis number (p<0.05). Further analysis revealed that the decreased tumor growth and metastasis was due to decreased mitosis and a larger number of apoptotic cells. Further studies are needed to determine if
oil from Salvia hispanica has similar effects in humans"

http://www.iabpi.com/files/Chia%20

(Salvia%20hispanica)%20Natural%20Standard%20Monograph.pdf

ETA:  Cannot make the above a live link, you would have to copy and paste Yell 

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 9, 2012 11:41PM Mini1 wrote:

Natkat - I had always used flax prior to getting some stomach issues. When I tried to reintroduce it back  into my diet I had horrible stomach pain. I thought that maybe I just wasn't going to be able to eat it anymore as has been the case with a few other foods. I never considered it may be rancid. I'm with you though on the flax and soy. Until they have a more evidence that it's a help and not a hinderance, I'm avoiding it. I don't see much pure soy out there. It's mostly been "improved" like most everything ese out there has been. Sigh

"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11 Surgery 4/16/2012 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 10, 2012 01:09AM Ruby- wrote:

 Countless natural product extracts have been tested for aromatase inhibition as per:

"Phase I clinical trials have begun on the botanical dietary supplement IH636 grape seed extract for the prevention of breast cancer in postmenopausal women who are at increased risk of developing breast cancer. The IH636 extract has a high concentration of proanthocyanidins and has been shown to inhibit aromatase using in vitro and in vivo models [85, 86].

The most active natural product extracts from testing in the microsomal aromatase inhibition assay, reported as % inhibition, comprise the ethyl acetate partition of Dioon spinulosum Dyer ex Eichl. [104], the ethyl acetate partition of Encephalartos ferox Bertol. f. [104], a 75% methanol reflux extract of Riedelia Meisn. sp. [105], a 75% methanol reflux extract of Viscum album L. [105], the methanol partition of Cycas rumphii Miq. [104], the methanol and ethyl acetate partitions of Cycas revoluta Thunb. [104], a 75% methanol reflux extract of Alpinia purpurata K. Schum. [105], and a 75% methanol reflux extract of Coccothrinax Sarg. sp. [105]. The natural product extracts that were most active in the microsomal aromatase inhibition assay reported as PCA included five red wine varieties (Vitis L. sp.) from various wineries, with the most active being Cabernet Sauvignon from Tanglewood (France) [86, 106, 107]. The hexane partition of the leaves of Brassaiopsis glomerulata (Blume) Regel (Araliaceae) was found to be active in microsomes [108]. The methanol and chloroform extracts of Garcinia mangostana L. (Clusiaceae) (mangosteen) were also strongly inhibitory against aromatase in microsomes [109].
Euonymus alatus (Thunb.) Sielbold ("gui-jun woo" in Korean folk medicine), a dichloromethane partition of Isodon excisus Kudo var. coreanus [110], a water reflux extract of Scutellaria barbata D. Don [111], and a polyphenol-enhanced extract of green tea (Camellia sinensis Kuntze) [112]. Another study reported results in units/100 g wet weight (one unit was defined as the dose required for 50% inhibition) and found tea (C. sinensis), coffee (Coffea L. sp.), cocoa (Theobroma cacao L.), collards (Brassica oleracea L.), and tomato leaves (Lycopersicon esculentum Mill.) to strongly inhibit aromatase using a microsomal assay [113]. Interestingly, this study also reported that cigarette smoke (obtained using methylene chloride and aqueous traps) and tobacco leaves (70% ethanol extract; Nicotiana tabacum L.) also potently inhibited aromatase, as reported in cigarette equivalents [113].

xanthohumol-rich stout beer in choriocarcinoma-derived JAR cells [114], a water extract of grape seed extract (Vitis L. sp.) in MCF-7aro cells [85], a water reflux extract of white button mushrooms [Agaricus bisporus (J. Lange) Imbach] in MCF-7aro cells [115], red clover flowers (Trifolium pratense L.) in a MCF-7 cell dual assay for aromatase inhibition and estrogenicity [116], mangosteen (Garcinia mangostana L.) in SK-BR-3 cells [109], and Brassaiopsis glomerulata (Blume) Regel in SK-BR-3 cells [108]. The red clover flowers were found to inhibit aromatase at low concentrations and were also estrogenic at high concentrations.

Pinot noir from Hacienda (Sonoma, CA)

Apigenin (5,7,4'-trihydroxyflavone, 8) and quercetin (3,5,7,3',4'-pentahydroxyflavone, 37) have been tested numerous times for aromatase inhibition. Apigenin (8) was found to be strongly active in microsomes

7-Hydroxyflavone (26) has been tested several times and has shown strong aromatase inhibition - Hesperetin (5,7,3'-trihydroxy-4'-methoxyflavanone, 53) [121, 133] and eriodictyol (5,7,3',4'-tetrahydroxyflavanone,50) [133] were each tested twice in microsomal aromatase assays and found to be strongly active. 8-Prenylnaringenin (62, isolated from Humulus lupulus L.) was one of the most active natural product compounds tested for aromatase inhibi)tion

an epidemiological study inferring aromatase inhibition through changes in estradiol levels demonstrated that estradiol levels were lower for people with higher EGCG (99) intake [147].

Furthermore, EGCG (99) has been tested using an in vivo Swiss-Webster mouse model measuring ovarian aromatase activity and was found to inhibit aromatase activity by 56% at 25 and 12.5 mg/kg [148]. Theaflavin (101) and theaflavin-3,3'-gallate (102), both isolated from Camellia sinensis Kuntze (black tea), were found to strongly inhibit aromatase in microsomes

Nearly 300 natural product compounds have been evaluated for their ability to inhibit aromatase, in noncellular, cell-based, and in vivo aromatase inhibition assays. Flavonoids have been tested most frequently and generally found to be the most active class of natural product AI compounds.

Some of the more active flavonoids included apigenin (8), chrysin (11), 7-hydroxyflavone (26), isolicoflavonol (27), (2S)-abyssinone II (45), (2S)-2',4'-dihydroxy-2"-(1-hydroxy-1-methylethyl)dihydrofuro[2,3-h]flavanone (49), eriodictyol (50), 8-prenylnaringenin (62), 3'-[γ-hydroxymethyl-(E)-γ-methylallyl]-2,4,2',4'-tetrahydroxychalcone 11'-O-coumarate (75), isoliquiritigenin (77), and rotenone (132). Other very active AI compounds included the xanthone, γ-mangostin (239), the sesquiterpene lactone, 11βH,13-dihydro-10-epi-8-deoxycumambrin (211), and the anthraquinone, benzanthraquinone I (249).

AIs from edible plant materials may eventually be appropriate for primary prevention of breast cancer in postmenopausal women (e.g., lower toxicity due to history of human consumption). Botanical dietary supplements or foods that are ingested regularly and act as AIs may have a role in breast cancer chemoprevention or chemotherapy for postmenopausal women."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074486/

Plus, precious nuggets can be found in the Natural Girls, Early Stage Natural Girls, and a number of other threads in the Alt and Complementary Forums Wink 

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 10, 2012 06:59AM purple32 wrote:

DIM also inhibited the growth of primary goiter cells by 70% compared to untreated controls. Contrary to traditional belief that cruciferous vegetables are "goitrogenic", DIM has anti-proliferative effects in glandular thyroid proliferative disease. Our preclinical studies provide a strong rationale for the clinical exploration of DIM as an adjuvant to surgery in thyroid proliferative disease"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

WOW!

I can't tell you how reassuring all that is, Ruby. You are right on the money- there indeed has been a lot of desperation in my many posts because despite my good prognosis, I am a pro-active person and have felt that I was hitting a  brick wall everywhere I turned.

Thanks SO much for all the fabulous info!

Also- many thanks to Natkat for starting this thread where I can feel free to ask/ answer/ give and get support without someone telling me  I'm not" doing everything I can, and I'll be sorry later."

This is a breath of fresh air !

Lymphedema on LEFT. NO radiation. 2 clean nodes. purple32. Hope is our light ... in the night. Dx 3/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/1/2012 Lumpectomy: Left
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Aug 10, 2012 10:29AM Ruby- wrote:

Purple, I'm glad you feel relieved - many options are available, one should not feel discouraged

It's truly a shame that you were made to feel guilty and frightened, warned of impending doom = very unsisterly conduct.  Pay no heed

“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 10, 2012 11:09AM purple32 wrote:

Thx again!

Lymphedema on LEFT. NO radiation. 2 clean nodes. purple32. Hope is our light ... in the night. Dx 3/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/1/2012 Lumpectomy: Left
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Aug 11, 2012 12:49AM Mini1 wrote:

OK, I have been waffling about not taking the hormonal therapy for various reasons. I would be good with my decision and then find something that basically said I was signing my own death warrant if I didn't goose step with the rest of the processon, and then I'd be back to feeling guilty and unsure again.

I know that there are cases where it is absolutely necessary to be aggressive and do things that may carry other dangers, but that is not the case with me. I find more danger with my other conditions taking the meds than not. So if and until I find it necessary to change, I am an official natural girl. And I am at peace about my decision! So keep the good info coming. I'm going to need it!

HAPPY FRIDAY!

"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11 Surgery 4/16/2012 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 11, 2012 05:50AM purple32 wrote:

Have any of you ever been to the cancermath site ?

iT CLAIMS IF i TAKE THE ARIMIDEX  ( WHICH COULD EASILY THRUST ME INTYO OSTEOPOROSIS) ooops sorry caps"


"The therapy selected would improve average life expectancy by  0.3 years, or
119 days over expectancy without therapy.
32% fewer cancer deaths after 15 years"

119 DAYS ????really?!

Lymphedema on LEFT. NO radiation. 2 clean nodes. purple32. Hope is our light ... in the night. Dx 3/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/1/2012 Lumpectomy: Left
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Aug 11, 2012 06:59AM Mini1 wrote:

Gee, 4 whole months after sufferieng the SE's for 5 years. Leaves something to be desired.

"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11 Surgery 4/16/2012 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 11, 2012 09:50AM Binc wrote:

Thanks so much for starting this thread! I have declined tamoxifen and am looking for natural options as well. I've barely scratched the surface on research compared to you posters. Please keep the info coming!!

Dx 9/29/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage IB, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ Surgery 11/7/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Targeted Therapy 12/14/2011 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Chemotherapy 12/14/2011 Taxol (paclitaxel) Surgery 4/23/2012 Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Surgery 7/17/2012 Reconstruction (right) Hormonal Therapy 1/3/2013 Surgery 1/8/2013 Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Surgery 10/18/2013 Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right)
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Aug 12, 2012 02:22AM comingtoterms wrote:

Great thread!! Thank you!!

Dx 1/9/2009, DCIS/IDC/IDC: Tubular/IDC: Mucinous/IDC: Cribriform, Left, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/27 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 12, 2012 02:52AM dlb823 wrote:

NatKat, I've reread the title of this thread a couple of times, and just to clarify for me and especially for any newly dx'd women who may be reading this...  You're talking about tx choices post-surgery and chemo and/or rads, if those are recommended, right?  In other words, ways to modulate estrogen in lieu of anti-hormonal drugs (Tamox of an A/I) -- not ways to tx hormone responsive bc prior to surgery or to skip chemo if it's strongly indicated.      Deanna

Deanna "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears" Native American proverb Dx 2/1/2008, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 1/16 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 1/3/2014, Stage IV
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Aug 12, 2012 03:05AM Mini1 wrote:

dib823 - I didn't start this page and am fairly new to it myelf so I can't speak to why this page was set up. What I can say is that I've read posts from across the spectrum. Some refused all treatment, others  (most, IMHO) like myself have done surgery, rads or chemo but do not wish to do the post AI regimen. I think you will find that same variety.

Personally, I am going to a naturopath next week and then to my regular onco doc the following week. I have no idea what his repsonse will be, but I'm going to give this route at least a chance. If I have to do something else later, that wil be another story, but for now. I'm going AI/Tamox free. 

"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11 Surgery 4/16/2012 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 12, 2012 03:17AM dlb823 wrote:

I totally support indiivdual choices in tx, mini.  I refused an A/I myself, love my naturopathic doctor (who really understands hormones and has oncology experience), and am a huge proponent of integrative medicine.  I just want to be sure that this thread isn't advocating using ONLY anti-estrogen therapies in lieu of surgery, for example.     Deanna

Deanna "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears" Native American proverb Dx 2/1/2008, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 1/16 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 1/3/2014, Stage IV
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Aug 12, 2012 03:23AM Mini1 wrote:

I haven't found that to be so, but as i said, I'm a newbie as well. I think most I've found are doing a combination or are looking to stop AI's/Tamox, but are unsure. That's what brught me here. It was recommended by a friend that knew this, so I"m assuming she felt I would feel comfortable here and learn something. :-)

"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11 Surgery 4/16/2012 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Aug 12, 2012 04:02AM bevin wrote:

This is a very interesting thread. I'd like to forgo my AI too. I'm not sure how to get started and what to use.  I'd love suggestions.  I too did the aner math and was surprised at the life expetany benefit from the AI's for my tumor specifics.  I think that's what got me interested in this path.

Thanks for any help on getting started. 

Age 45, Oncotype 11, Primary Tumor 2.1 cm, smaller satellite tumor nearby Dx 8/8/2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage II, Grade 3, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 8/10/2010 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Radiation Therapy 10/10/2010 Breast
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Aug 12, 2012 05:28AM Momine wrote:

Purple, under those circumstances I wouldn't take the AI either. For me, at stage III, the AI gives a significant advantage that makes a difference to me, especially given my age (48). If I were stage I and 60+, for example, I would feel fine skipping it.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Aug 12, 2012 05:30AM - edited Aug 12, 2012 08:30AM by purple32

Deanna

I have read Natkats posts on other threads and she has definitely had surgery.  I *believe* what happened was that we were having a forum discussion about alt. to hormonals and people kept popping in with why some should take an AL or how tamox. wasnt that bad etc etc and even how people should be " doing everything that can to prevent recurrence  etc "  ... and so this thread was  born. At least, that is how I saw it develop from here I sit, and I  am glad to have it.
Lymphedema on LEFT. NO radiation. 2 clean nodes. purple32. Hope is our light ... in the night. Dx 3/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/1/2012 Lumpectomy: Left
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Aug 12, 2012 06:51AM purple32 wrote:

Yeah Momine

We are all very different ....  just ' shows to go you' the one size fits all approach may not be right for everyone.

Lymphedema on LEFT. NO radiation. 2 clean nodes. purple32. Hope is our light ... in the night. Dx 3/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/1/2012 Lumpectomy: Left
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Aug 12, 2012 07:46AM - edited Aug 12, 2012 07:58AM by exbrnxgrl

I would also like to add that it is quite common for threads to veer away from the original topic. Additionally, it is common for people read only the most current posts, which may have moved OT, and comment from there rather than reading the op and all earlier comments. Caryn

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole)
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Aug 12, 2012 02:28PM Kristina19 wrote:

So grateful for this thread.  My docs have been recommending tamoxifen for me and I would prefer a natural approach.  I will be very interested in reading what everyone has found.  Haven't had my lumpectomy yet (Scheduled for September 4) but really prefer a natural and whole foods approach. Hope that I can find the right foods/supplements that will help keep me healthy.

Kristina 

Kristina Brown Dx 7/22/2012, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/4/2012 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel Surgery 9/20/2012 Lumpectomy: Left

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