Topic: Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally

Aug 12, 2012 07:15AM purple32 wrote:

Hi Kristina,

Good luck with your surgery.  There are lots of things fo you to consider.

You may want to google DIM and IC3 to start. There are options out there . I know you will want to have a full discussion with your MO/ medical team before you make any final decisions.

In response to your post, I would like to suggest the book :" Anti Cancer- a new way of Life",

~Best Wishes!

Aug 13, 2012 02:30AM - edited Aug 13, 2012 02:38AM by Natkat

Been away a while.  Just to clarify ... doesn't matter if you've had surgery or whatever in past ... but this thread is about people using 100% NATURAL to address hormonal responsive cancers (ER+ / PR+) 

Great material on other threads, but much of it was mixed-up with general advice or many people posting on the natural threads that we should try the meds.  I ALREADY KNOW I am NOT going to try the meds, and so do many others.  This thread is to share our research in a targeted and direct way.

Good videos about Estrogen metabolism below.  Once you get past the wonky head gear she is very informative and scientific.  LOADS of good info in her videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4inaJEISg

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSOPTO...

Also, the liver plays a key role in estrogen metabolism, so in a general way, maintaining healthy liver function is important to support any hormone programme.  I am currently drinking detox teas to support my liver function until I develop a specific protocol.  I use Yogi brand "detox" tea.  Tastes pleasant and gives you something to drink while researching

Thank you all for wonderful posts on this thread.

Aug 14, 2012 11:16AM Ruby- wrote:

"The researchers found that administering PEITC for 29 weeks was linked with a 56.3% reduction in mammary carcinoma lesions greater than 2mm."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/248589.php

Popping my DIM for estrogen detox  

Note: 3/4 of a kilo of broccoli contains 10 to 30mg of Di-indolymethane (1 1/2 kg of broccoli contains the equivalent amount of one 100mg DIM capsule) 

Aug 14, 2012 11:16PM FlChie wrote:

Thank you very much for your posts, I am learning a lot. My oncologist has recomended arimidex but I have refused it. Have been takiing DIM, Breast defend and Pectasol C

Aug 15, 2012 02:09PM graced wrote:

In the breast cancer book, Waking the Warrier Goddess, she devotes an entire chapter to the benefits of flaxseed for breast cancer prevention.  Dr. Keith Block of the Block Cancer Center also recommends flax for BC and I have seen it recommended elsewhere.  It is true that you have to grind it when you eat it and not buy the pre-ground stuff.  Our bodies can't digest the seeds whole and when ground, it can go rancid quickly. The lignans in the flaxseed hull are thought to have some anti-estrogen effect. In addition, the omega-3 fatty acids have immune-boosting, preventative effects. 2 tbs per day is the recommendation I have seen.  I add it into my morning smoothie and the vitamix grinds it all up so no need to pre-grind.

Aug 15, 2012 04:13PM Linda-n3 wrote:

I use ground flax seed, 2 tbsp. daily as several of you do.  My MO actually has recommended several dietary approaches, including flax oil (which I don't like, and have researched that flax seed is probably better overall anyway for both heart and anti-inflammatory).  I keep mine sealed in the refrigerator, which greatly prolongs the shelf life, and have not had problems with it going rancid.  I fix a big pot of steel cut oats with flax seed each week, and refrigerate so I have about 4-5 servings, to which I can then add cinnamon and fruit and an additional protein source.  If I don't cook oatmeal, I put the flax seed in yogurt or a smoothie.

On an aside note: you can use ground flax seed and water as an egg substitute in cooking!  I forget the proportions - will look them up.

There is some research at Vanderbilt University on soy and breast cancer, that basically says soy FOODS are not a problem, but the researchers did NOT suggest soy supplements.

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/news/releases.php?release=2079

I am wondering (1) does the whole foods approach to hormonal therapy work, and (2) are there similar adverse effects of blocking estrogen receptors with the natural approaches (such as hot flashes), and if not, I wonder why not?

Aug 15, 2012 04:23PM graced wrote:

I use the 2 tbs of seeds and then grind them.  I think you can't go wrong with consuming a little more but it's just easier to measure them from the bag that way.  Yes you do have to keep them in the fridge or the freezer.  There are golden ones and red ones - both good.  I use "Bob's Red Mill" organic.

Aug 15, 2012 07:05PM - edited Aug 15, 2012 07:11PM by Ruby-

Whippetmon, I did take ginseng often on prior to dx but have shied away from it since.  I've read many studies the likes of this one:

"A ginsenoside-Rh1, a component of ginseng saponin, activates estrogen receptor in human breast carcinoma MCF-7 cells" 

www.sciencedirect.com/science/... 

I think I remember there being one exception and that's Canadian ginseng, maybe this is one of the reasons why:

"Canadian NAG and Asian ginseng differ in their chemical composition and each appears to have distinct biological effects. From a traditional Chinese medicine point of view, the Chinese perceive NAG to be more "yin" - meaning it is used to reduce "heat" in the body. Alternatively, Asian ginseng is thought to be more "yang" - meaning it is used to raise "heat" in the body" 

Linda: "are there similar adverse effects of blocking estrogen receptors with the natural approaches (such as hot flashes)"

I can testify to that. YES !  I'm getting the same flushes and even more pain and stiffness. Knees are terrible, can't get back up from squatting position  Took Tamox 18 months, started my DIM combo a few months before I discontinued Tamox and now only take DIM.  The cognitive dysfunction brought on by Tamox is slowly improving and I no longer have nightmares about endometrial and BC in other the breast which is a HUGE relief

ETA, forgot the fatigue...much worse on DIM. I believe it was Deanna who said she tried DIM but could not tolerate it and is now taking I3C, DIM's end product.  The formula I take contains both plus natural AIs; I take 4 caps daily, pretty strong stuff 

Aug 15, 2012 07:38PM Mini1 wrote:

For those of you that are doing DIM, how much are you taking? Is it a one size fits all dosage as it is withTamox?

Aug 15, 2012 07:50PM lisa_anne wrote:

Good question Mini1.  I am also very curious about DIM.  I hated Femara (6 months) and am hating Tamox (2 months now) The SE are horrible!!!  I want to try to prevent BC but am just starting to research a natural approach.

Aug 15, 2012 07:55PM Scottiee1 wrote:

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. I am in Canada and I order concentrated Flax
Lignans from the States....all my research says it's the Lignans that are anti-cancer and
Since there seems to be some controversy over the whole flaxseed, this is my way of getting around it. Just wanted to share.

Aug 15, 2012 07:58PM Ruby- wrote:

Mini, because you are so tiny.... just joking.  The doctor whose formula I take recommends 6 to 8 tabs a day in case of BC.  I could not handle that.  You can try a lower dose and work it up, that's the beauty of natural products.  I had a hard time finding a formula without soy, go figure

Two caps contain:

CalciumD Glucarate = 150 mg so I take 300 mg a day

I3C = 150 mg 

Green tea extract  (90% standardized polyphenols) 30:1 from 3000 mg green tea = 100 mg

Turmeric (95% standardized curcumin) =  50 mg

DIM = 50 mg

Rosemary Leaf extract (6% carnosic acid) = 25 mg

Sulforaphane (from Broccophane, broccoli sprout extract) = 200 mcg

Tons and tons of research on each of these ingredients for BC 

Aug 15, 2012 08:30PM Mini1 wrote:

Ruby - I'm not small I'm travel size! That's why I was wondering about dosage. With Tamox I could be 3 times my size, drink a pint of vodka a day, eat all my meals at McDonald's, smoke a pack a day and never lift a finger and I would get the same dosage as they want to give me now when none of those things apply to me

Maybe that's why so many people have side effects on these BC meds. We're being over-medicated. I can't do the AI's because of my osteoporosis and the SE's of Tamox scare me. I don't want cancer to return or spread, but I don't want to put something in my body that the ACS has on their list (multiple times) as a known carcenigen. Call me crazy but I don't think increasing my risk of other cancers, blood clots, etc. is a better than at least trying supplements and diet first.

Aug 15, 2012 09:01PM Soyaandpepper wrote:

Binc-Any studies about the flaxseed you could share? I'm really confused about that since I heard both sides, that flaxseed is anticancer and then its also not good for ER+ breast cancer ladies!

Aug 18, 2012 01:47PM Natkat wrote:

Thank you for all the wonderful posts.  I made a summary document so the info is organized.  Please feel free to cut & paste into your own notes for easy reference.  This post is LONG.  read it all to get the full info.

Thank you to Ruby, my sister Mare (who isn't on this forum), and everyone else who posted useful info which is included in the below document:

Foods generally beneficial for curing ER+/PR+ cancers:

#1 choice:  foods of the Brassica family including cruciferous veggies: broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, cabbage, kale, and mustard seed.  **see below chart**

Avocado (mehtionine for estrogen metabolism)
Berries (especially blue berries)
Broccoli, kale, cabbage, radishes, cauliflower, watercress, etc.
Buckwheat
Fresh Fruits (beneficial for flavenoids although not indicated on the chart)
**Flax Seeds (contra-indicated for some people)
Grapes (especially purple grapes and eat the seeds if you can, also red wine in LIMITED dose)
Melons
Millet
Onion & Garlic
Pineapples
White rice, tapioca

Natural Aromatase Inhibitors:

Nature has provided an abundance of aromatase inhibitors.  You don't have to take drugs to inhibit aromatase. Nature has provided plants that will get the job done without harmful side effects. Research showed that chrysin worked as well to inhibit the aromatase enzyme as a drug designed for that purpose. Chrysin is normally taken as a supplement along with piperine which greatly enhances its bioavailability.

Beneficial compounds gotten from food have the added benefits of the perfect synergy found in a whole food as well as the other nutrients and compounds it contains.

Quercetin, naringenin, resveratrol, apigenin, genistein, and oleuropein are all powerful flavonoids from whole foods that inhibit aromatase and offer other health benefits as well.  Organically grown foods contain the highest levels of these flavonoids.

Quercetin is the main reason an apple a day keeps the doctor away. It is a major antioxidant with important anti-aging benefits. It fights inflammation and reduces the cellular damage inflammation causes. By fighting inflammation, it also helps decrease swelling and pain, and keeps the circulatory system healthy. Quercetin helps prevent fatigue by helping to decrease damage from heavy exercise, and increase endurance. It is an anti-viral, and an immune system supporter and liver protector. Research has suggested that quercetin has other anti-cancer benefits aside from inhibiting aromatase in breasts and prostates. Cabbage, onions and garlic are other good sources of this powerful flavonoid.

Apigenin is a non-mutigenic flavonoid that has significant chemoprotective action against UV radiation. Research has shown apigenin reduces oxidative damage of DNA, inhibits the growth and induces differentiation in human leukemia cells, inhibits cancer cell transduction, and induces appropriate cell death. Like quercetin, apigenin acts as an anti-inflammatory and as an antispasmodic. Apigenin is found in good supply in celery, parsley, artichokes, basil, and chamomile.

Naringenin, is an antioxidant, free radical scavenger, anti-inflammatory, and immune system modulator. It has been shown to promote proper metabolism of carbohydrates. It was shown to reduce hepatitis C virus production by infected liver cells in cell culture and to inhibit the secretion of very low density lipoprotein by cells. As a cancer fighter, it reduces oxidative damage to DNA. Naringenin is found in all citrus and may be the reason that diets high in citrus are negatively correlated with heart disease. However, naringenin should not be obtained from grapefruit or grapefruit juice, which has an inhibitory effect on the human cytochrome P450 isofrom, another enzyme in the same complex as the aromatase enzyme. This enzyme is involved in breaking down and metabolizing sex hormones and preventing their excess accumulation in the body, so inhibiting it is not a good idea.

Resveratrol is a flavonoid gaining wide respect for its multitude of health benefits. Several recent research studies have revealed that resveratrol is highly effective against breast cancer by inhibiting ER positive and negative cell proliferation, cell cycle progression, and primary breast tumor growth. Resveratrol is protective of the liver even against alcohol. It also keeps the central nervous system strong by protecting neurons from oxidative stress. Resveratrol is found to some degree in the skin and seeds of red grapes. Muscadine grapes have the largest content and are often used to make red wine. Although supplements of resveratrol are popular and widely available, getting resveratrol from red wine allows you to get the entire grape polyphenol group of nutrients, a group that has been shown to work much better synergistically. Breast tumor growth and metastasis to bone and liver were shown to be better inhibited by the complete grape polyphenol complex.

Oleuropein gives olive oil its distinctive flavor and is found in abundance in the leaves of the olive tree. It is one of the reasons olive leaf is such a powerful tool for wellness. Oleuropein helps the body fight off viruses, bacteria, and fungi. It is contained in every part of the olive tree and is the basis of its defense from insects. Oleuropein has been shown to boost the immune defense of people too, as well as fostering a healthy balance between friendly bacteria in the intestinal tract. In animal research, oleuropein was shown to enhance nitric oxide production. It is also a potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory.

Packaged Preparations (not endorsing - just listing for convenience)

http://www.activamune.com/
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/NFC111/ItemDetail

Suplements & Herbs most of us agreed on:
DIM (bio available)
Sulforaphane
Turmeric

Supplements specific to Estrogen Metabolism
(not estrogen blockers - estrogen metabolizers working on Methylation pathway)

L-Methionine (amino acid) estrogen conversion
Methylcobalamin B12 (vitamin)  estrogen conversion
MSM - estrogen conversion
Calcium D-Gluconate (assists removal of estrogen via bowels)

General Principle:
Estrogen is metabolized by the liver and eliminated through the bowels.  Strengthen liver function.  Detoxify both liver and bowels.  Over-the-counter products I recommend:
Yogi Tea "Detox" and Michael Tierra Tri-Cleanse. 
These are not medicinal but can be used by anyone - no professional guidance necessary.

If you are working with a Naturopath, TCM, or Ayurvedic practioner, they will likely have medicinal liver-strengthening or detoxifying protocols included in your treatment.

D-glucarate is found in apples, oranges, broccoli, spinach, and Brussels sprouts. To metabolize estrogens, your liver joins them to glucoronic acid so they can be eliminated through the bowel.  In some cases, a gut bacteria called beta-glucuronidase breaks this bond and allows the estrogen to be re-circulated in the body. D-glucarate inhibits an enzyme produced by the beta-glucuronidase so improves your chances to eliminate estrogens through the bowel successfully.

Juice Suggestion:
Juice greens and herbs known to contain the phytochemical indole-3-carbinol to improve detox of environmental estrogen.  Especially watercress  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20546646

Iodine Protocols may be beneficial for estrogen related cancers  http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iodine.html

• Lugols' solution & DMSO topically
• Iodoral protocol: Iodoral 12.5 - 50 mg, vitamin C (Ascorbyl palmitate, ascorbic acid, ascorbate) 3000 mg, magnesium (citrate or oxide) 300-600 mg, Selenium or L-selenomethionine 200 mg, B3 Niacin (inositol hexanicotinate) 500mg, B2 Riboflavin 100mg
  

Possible - Worth researching:
melatonin
chia seeds
PEITC
Ginseng (American vs. Asian)

Green tea extract / EGCG - general, still researching role in estrogen related cancers
ID3 - similar to DIM but contra-indicated in some cases?

CoQ10 - general, still researching role in estrogen related cancers
Omega 3 & fish oil fatty acids - general, still researching role in estrogen related cancers