Aug 22, 2012 11:55AM dogsandjogs wrote:
I add mushrooms to all my veggies. I really like them. I sautee them with onions and celery.
This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.
Posted on: Aug 6, 2012 09:37PM - edited Aug 8, 2012 01:31PM by Natkat
Hello please post here ONLY if you are researching or using natural tx to address hormone responsive cancer. Please stay on topic - no posts about standard drugs or ovary removal. No posts about general anti cancer. Thread for people who need alternatives SPECIFIC to hormone responsive cancers
Will share my own research and looking foward to hearing about yours
Posts 91 - 120 (2,509 total)
Aug 22, 2012 11:55AM dogsandjogs wrote:
I add mushrooms to all my veggies. I really like them. I sautee them with onions and celery.
Aug 22, 2012 12:37PM Mini1 wrote:
Mushrooms are also good in any red sauce and are a great addition to most soups. I also like to saute fresh spinach and mushrooms in a little garlic infused olive oil.
Aug 22, 2012 12:42PM dogsandjogs wrote:
I'll have to try the spinach. Thanks! Always looking for ideas to make veggies more appealing as I need to eat more of them. Found out I have gained 9 lbs since the Aromasin; even though I'm a vegan now. The problem is: too much bread and cereals to make up for no meat, chicken or fish. I also crave sugar constantly ; blaming this on the Aromasin too. LOL.
But doesn't my body know I'm no longer taking it? I don't need this huge appetite -
Aug 22, 2012 07:00PM 1Athena1 wrote:
The oncotype test is not intended to help decide whether hormone therapy is a good idea. It is a prognostic genomic assay. It has been used in practice to give people advice about chemotherapy, but strictly speaking it isn't a test that uncovers what treatment path is best - rather, it is a yardstick that doctors and patients can presumably use to gauge how aggressive they want to be on therapy of any kind. It is intended to calculate your probabilities for recurrence. It is a relatively new test, so the jury is definitely out on whether it is even reliable. For obvious reasons, it will take many years for that to become apparent one way or the other. My personal opinion is that physicians seem to be over relying on this...OTOH, I can't really blame them, given the paucity of applicable science we have on this issue.
Aug 22, 2012 07:04PM dogsandjogs wrote:
I didn't even get this test.
Aug 22, 2012 08:45PM Natkat wrote:
TURMERIC isn't necessarily specific to ER+ cancers ... but it is universally included in the literature and most commercial preparations + anecdotal evidence I researched. I beleive it is a broad-spectrum substance which supports the metabolism of estrogen. It would be considered an indirect actor rather than a direct actor. But everyone seems to agree on it.
PREGESTERONE: My cancer is also PR+ so I am in different boat than you ... but some of the more advanced research indicates that BIO IDENTICAL hormones might be OK. I think this is very complex issue and can only be addressed on a case-by-case basis. I like the book "What your doctor may not tell you about breast cancer" Some of the info is outdated but the author is an expert on hormones - much more expert than typical cancer doctor.
I know red rishi mushroom is very popular general anti-cancer in CHina and Japan. Not sure how it relates specifically to estrogen?
Aug 22, 2012 10:03PM curveball wrote:
@mini1, spinach, garlic & mushroom is also tasty on a pizza. It's been some time since I had that combination, I think it had either a white sauce (maybe with cheese in it) or justgrated cheese and no tomato sauce on the crust, then the spinach & mushrooms on top.
@dogsandjogs, have you tried replacing some of your meat with beans or other legumes? They have higher protein than grain. Maybe less grain and more legumes will help you avoid weight gain.
Aug 23, 2012 08:09AM Mini1 wrote:
My appointment is this afternoon. Wish me luck. I will let you know how it goes. Hoping what I have to say that is in my brain makes it to my my mouth and I am able to articulate it clearly and effectively. I'm also hoping for an open-minded discussion, not a lecture on why I HAVE to take the Rx and that it is my only realistic option. Say a prayer and cross a digit for me.
Aug 23, 2012 08:20AM comingtoterms wrote:
Mini, thank you for those links on estrogen. VERY interesting information. It makes it easy to see how difficult it is to understand why some women get breast cancer. There are SO many variables that come together to create the perfect storm. Great stuff! A few months before I was diagnosed my hair began to fall out in clumps. My doctor had my blood levels tested and my estradiol level was through the roof. Approx. six months later I was diagnosed.
Aug 23, 2012 09:12AM voraciousreader wrote:
Mini... If you get a "lecture" from your doctor, then I would definitely recommend several opinions with other doctors. No one needs to be lectured why they need a medication. I am pleased with my doctor and support staff. When new studies are released, I always have a thoughtful discussion with my doctor and we decide together what bearing those studies have on my care. Good luck!
Aug 23, 2012 11:21AM dogsandjogs wrote:
Thanks! Yes I am planning to eat more beans and less cereal and bread. It is just so easy to grab a piece of bread though---then I end up with about 6 slices a day---way too much
I do eat veggies every day, but they are really not filling --
Aug 23, 2012 04:14PM Mini1 wrote:
OK, saw my doc and he was very nice about things, but basically said I doube my chances of recurrance w/o Tamox, roughly 22% statiscally speaking. He didn't say he wouldn't follow me and said that the decision is mine, but also basically if it metasticizes it will be fatal. This whole thing sucks. We shouldn't be forced to play Russian roulette with our health. Or worse, have to pick our own weapon. I hate this.
Aug 23, 2012 05:38PM - edited Aug 23, 2012 05:41PM by Bluebird-DE
What a day and what a mess on page 3! Can barely tell who posted what... hope it works out in long run.
So the good news is I went to an insurance covered endocrinologist this morning, he is bioidentical hormones all the way, never synthetic. He is running extensivve blood work, I have a list from him, who does that, who gives you the LIST of what tests they are running so you can research and read? Wow. And I love him, I just love him. So does Hubby. He was on same page, he is there to work with me, not tell me what to do, but to help me, he is informed and informative, he is intent to listen and spent over an hour just getting the details of what is me and what the cancer has been like, the everything I am doing for myself. I gave him a list of my present protocol and the transitions I make.
Here's the good news. If that is not enough. He said I am 90% there in all I am doing. And he said that in knowledge of what hormones and cancer and thyroid and all the alternatives, I am at the top 1% of all the people he sees, so I am going the right way. Will post more as I am treated, as I learn.
Today he gave me a book to read, Dr. Neal Rouzier's 'Bioidentical hormone Replacement Therapy - for men and women. www.hormonedoctor.com Author is n Palm Springs, CA.
What I learned today - Estrogen is not the enemy. The xenoestrogens are, those stored and generated by fat and inflammation, xenoestrogens are from our environment. I still do not understand even though I basically came out with an A for understanding and implementation of protocol, LOL, maybe bcz am too tired..... but I will keep reading.
Dr. is going to get me off the Synthroid and on a compounded thyroid, and for bioidentical progesterone I believe he will choose the sublingual because it absorbs best. He says tests will tell, but he thinks I have a good amount of good estrogens and the not so good in my body but the issues is probably going to the the imbalance of the progesterone. I will know in 3 weeks.
So I am that much closer to tx of ER+ PR+ cancer and going natural even at postmenopause and with extreme hypothyroid.
In meantime for hypo, taking l-tyrosine, nascent atomic iodine, tumeric extract, borage extract, 137 mcg Synthroid.
To control and or balance hormones, taking tumeric, chastetree berry extract, essential oils of helicrysin w pink grapefruit in carrier oil, using bioidentical progesterone cream (and that does not mean yam), eating the black beans - need to do so daily, but do not.
The other thing I learned is the thyroid is essential to recovery, we must make certain our thyroid is where it needs to be for us, not according to some T4 or TSH test that reads we are at norml range. Again, individual therapy, and if we d not feel well, we are not there yet. I know, am talking to bc people, we can feel pretty cra*_*y and exhausted, but you know when you know. So the cancer is also about thyroid and about the D3 and D4 levels, and the 10,000 IU of sublingua Vit D3 is the right amount, per the integrative medical dr and this endocriologist, both said that is were intake needs to be for bc esp, and a pill is not goig to cut it for me, I know. I knew a lot of this, and I knew he was he one for me. Very happy!
Comments on others comments - forgive for not using names, the page is ascew and my brain does not follow ascew, it even goes backwards in these situations whhn things do not line up, why I do not drive yet.
So, yes it does cost so much to choose the alternatives route, requires immense commitment too, esp with the expense bcz now you don't get a new dress or shoes or purse, you get yet another bottle of pills, an extract, a doctor's appointment or an IV you for pay out-of-pocket. And wow did I see a gorgeous eggplant coloured tote/purse today, I may break down and get it.
The price on the naturopath is about right, $150 - $175 initial visit, follow ups about half, tests around $45 - $380 depending. A good naturopath is not working out a one-protocol-fits-all though, they are to be spening a lot of time behind the scene assessing your info, you after they have met you they are thinking about you, really, and finding your best combination from all they know.
Nope, I cannot afford it all. But I research, learn from others and apply to my own health challenge.
Mushrooms, the button are not the ones with benefits, but I don't know details. There are powders, extracts and drinks for the potency we need when dealing w bc, we need more than prevention nutrition now. Does anyone know about the phytoestrogenic qualities of mushrooms? Who eats these? Who does not?
I hope something I shared helps for today, the reason I went to this dr was to control ER responsive cancer naturally and to deal w hypothyroid and all the hormones, but it has to be all not just the estrogen, I know that now.
Have to feed pets and take a long nappie. Talk to you later.
ETA my sig -
and to say I just found page 4 so addressing comments in next post.
Aug 23, 2012 05:52PM Bluebird-DE wrote:
NatKat - on pg 3 the names did not match the posts, I too am ER+ PR+ 90% ea. I listed the links on estrogen an progesterone studies from around the world. Had just found them after reading a chapter in the book 'Outsmart Your Cancer' about what women need to know about hormones and that ..... by drs!!!!..... I was given wrong info on bioidentical progsterone for over a year and missed that entire year of benefits I could have really used.
Mini read the book or at least that chapter, research through those studies and hopefully you will feel there is hope.
Someone on other page asked, how do we find our way, we keep reading and learning.
Aug 23, 2012 06:10PM sam52 wrote:dogsandjogs......am I understanding you correctly, that you have gained weight since stopping aromasin? That is what happened to me; in fact I have gained 2 stone (sorry - UK weight) in 2 years.I am always hungry it seems.......
Aug 23, 2012 08:01PM dogsandjogs wrote:
Well, during the time I took it I started to gain weight; probably due to the fact that I could not jog as much as I normally did (because of the severe bone and muscle pain)
But since I stopped the weight kept going up - even though I'm back to my jogging and even joined a twice-a-week exercise class.
Aug 23, 2012 08:38PM Mini1 wrote:
MadBlueBird - I don't know where you live, but i wish I lived there and had your naturopath. I can't seem to find one around here. I will say though for many the cost is not about foregoing a purse or a dress, it's about foregoing food or heat or transportation. We pay more now for food than when we had two teenage boys at home now that we're buying buying the healthy stuff and eating more fresh fruit and veggies. That's besides general living expenses and the medical expenses of course. Not criticizing, just saying that you can't get blood from a stone and some of us got a pocket full of rocks nowadays. You can't spend what you don't have regardless of what you spend it on.
I do eat mushrooms, btw. Never buttons. Porcini, portabella, baby bellas, oysters, etc. I add them to soups and sauces, put them on pizza, eat them in salads raw, saute them with fresh spinach, and grill and eat them like a burger. They're very easy to incporporate into the diet.
Aug 24, 2012 12:40AM Natkat wrote:
Essa thank you for your wonderful posts and info!
Mini. Please dont let doctors discourage you. Their stats can be misleading. The drugs are very good to prevent local recurrance but actually do little to prolong life or heal cancer. I know finances are difficult but i committed to 100% natural so seeing both ayurvedic doctor and getting appointment at mederi clinic which you can do via e-mail. Please meditate to find right answer for YOU. Not what i say or what doctors say but what your heart and innate wisdom tells you.
Aug 24, 2012 06:27AM purple32 wrote:
No ...no oncosrore here . They told me they never ever ever do it with ppl in my early stage and would not.
FINALLY, many many weeks later , I called and INSISTED on a ki-67 test since I di not have rads and it was driving me crazy. My surgeon was on vaca , but her PA ordered it. This was at MGH.
This is all the info I have ----just what you see in my signature.
And I have asked ... and asked !
Aug 24, 2012 06:27AM purple32 wrote:PS
Aug 24, 2012 06:32AM purple32 wrote:
You said :" In meantime for hypo, taking l-tyrosine, nascent atomic iodine, tumeric extract, borage extract, 137 mcg Synthroid."
See , this is where I get confused ! I have been looking into turmeric for BC, but I am near HYPERthyroid. Are you saying turmeric treats HYPO ?
All is such a damn big ball of yarn!!!!!!
Aug 24, 2012 10:16AM Natkat wrote:
please read through past posts as this info is burried in there
TUMERIC is not necessarily a direct actor in estrogen responsive cancers. Rather it is commonly agreed to be an INdirect actor which has a broad range of beneficial effects. So we might say tumeric is a general treatment to support metabolic functions including correct metabolism of estrogens.
Tumeric may or may not have specific actions on estrogen, thyroid, etc., but these are less establised. It is surely a powerful GENERAL actor and recommended as such. It is a FOOD, so in moderate doses, safe (excepting allergy situations which I assume are rare)
If you are using higher-level therapeutic doses, best to have guidance from QUALIFIED Ayurvedic or naturopath doctor etc. as too much of anything might have side-effects.
Aug 24, 2012 11:25AM Mini1 wrote:
NatKat - Thanks. I'm trying to sort everything out. Praying, researching, and doing my best to figure out a plan. Wouldn't be so hard if my life wasn't in the balance.
Aug 24, 2012 05:45PM purple32 wrote:THX
Aug 24, 2012 09:57PM Mini1 wrote:
Purple - I was at the pharmacy today and saw supplements for mushrooms, tumeric, cinnamon (sp?), DIM, etc. They really weren't as expensive as I thought they would be. Some things are easy to get in your diet. Cinnamon, for instance. I just put it in my oatmeal or yogurt, but cruceferous (sp???) vegetables would be hard (if not impossible) to consume in a natural food form in sufficient amounts. And I like mushrooms, but again I'm not going to eat enough every day. For those I will need a supplement, but I like to get at least a portion of it from real food whenever possible.
Aug 25, 2012 01:43AM Soyaandpepper wrote:
I juice my cruceferous veg and that's how I get my sufficient amount, much easier than eating them with all their fiber. I also juice fresh wheat grass which is equivalent to 2.5 lbs of veg or something like that.
Aug 25, 2012 07:20AM purple32 wrote:
Yes, I am aware of those supplements , but cruciferous vegs for example are known to be goiterous. I asked my endo dr. about it since I have a large multinodular goiter and she said that while she never limits ppl in my situation from eating a ' standard' (* avg ?) amt of them in a regular diet she would NOT suggest a larger than usual or supplemental amouint due to the goiter.
( always seems to be a catch 22 )
Aug 25, 2012 11:06AM Mini1 wrote:
You're right Purple. I have never tried to reasearch anything that had this much contradictory info. Makes me crazy.
Aug 25, 2012 11:01PM Bluebird-DE wrote:
Mini - I started to buy some things I need from purebulk.com - they have decent prices. I shop hard for things, sometimes it takes me days to find it all.
I know what you mean about the supplements and not being able to pay the bills. When this first started and I chose the alternatives, we were at the choice of making a house payment or utilities or all the treatments and supplements. I was so sick and could not help, could not get disability, no memory, really a bad situation. We walked away from our dream home (not really dream but we were going to retire there and build a retirement business) and ended up here on the hill so I could breathe again. Wasn't until I sold my washer and dryer (using the landlord's) that I could spend a lot of money on the treatments and supplements so I could get what I needed, until then we just made ends meet. Now I have some cash flow going on eBay sales, so there is hope. This is the first time in over a year that I have looked at a purse or dress and still do not choose to buy it, cannot, the alts are needed more. So I knowwhat you mean, there were several months that Hubby did not have abelt, his ws tied around his waist and he refused to get one, said other things were more important right nw, meaning my life..... he has not had supplements for over a year and now dog needs his annual vet checkup, you know how it gets. At least our heads are above water now, but it is so unfair to feel like one is literally dying because they are not playing by the rules of insurance / medi care and conventional choices. I spent a lot of time very angry. If you need any suggestions on how to make it happen, how to find the better prices, let me know, I can point out a few things and I never point the way so I earn a commission, never ever. Where we live, there is a Cancer Debt Relief organization. I also was told about the Lion's Club has a cancer fund for people to get money for the tx they need. I almost used that but things started to turn around for us in the last few weeks, so didn't. Mainly I just feel so much better right now, I can see a way out. You know what I mean when I say we are being asked to make a really huge commitment, huge.
The research is crazy making. But I find one book that I cannot live without right now, and I have STACKS!!! but it is the one recommended to me by my integrative medical doctor who is also a pathologist and in nuclear medicine, OUTSMART YOUR CANCER by Harter Pierce, it is a huge index if you will, to lead you to more info, but basically a wealth of info and ideas of itself. I have read it about 5 times and still reading. With that book,the ball of yarn started to turn into a sweather. really.
NatKat thanks for the info on tumeric, I have notes and a general understanding, but that really nailed it. Just about all I am using is basically to help my hormones balance themselves, we shall see what all the tests come up w that the endo took.
Mini, my fav drs are near Fort Wayne, and one is in South Bend, we drive 1 - 3 hrs to get to them, one way. Want names, pm me ok. I get something different from each one, tests, IVs, endo, etc.