Is there a natural estrogen blocker? help!

A lot of body-builders use grape seed extract to deplete estrogen levels. The Mayo Clinic did a clinical trial, but as far as I know the results have not yet been published. I take it for other health issues, but knowing that it was investigated by the Mayo Clinic (and knowing it's use in the body-building circles), I'm glad to find out that it has anti-estrogenic properties as well. Something to look into anyway.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00566553

Hi

I am new here too. I have had breast cancer twice. First time right side with lumpectomy and radiation. Second time left with lumpectomy and 2 years on Anastrozole. Just stopped a week ago. Couldn't take the side affects. I originally had refused to take it after reading side affects now I am living them.

You say you are in the medical field.

Hope to hear from you

Karen

After my lumpectomy, I decided to forgo radiation after hearing of the SEs, heart problems, and possible secondary cancers.

Now I'm building my case to present my onc. to decline Femora or other AI.

Following my D.O. / Natural doc I'm taking:

DIM (I3C), Mushroom capsules (AHCC), Artemisinin, and am looking into Brevail.

Does anyone else use these protocols?

I also was prescribed (10) IV Vitamin C treatments - I'm on #7,

I take Estrovera at bed time along with melatonin (10 mg) and magnesium,

Ioderol, Grape Seed, Ubiquinol CoQ10, Tumeric,

Am on a no sugar, red meat, organic, hormone-free diet (mostly!)

Get a massage every other week, exercise, try to stay low PH, and have seen a Quantum physics specialist

to get "treatment" that honestly I don't understand but I do believe in treating the electrical aspects of the body.

Is anyone using hyperbaric oxygen treatment?

So there you have it! Can anyone else relate or have thoughts on this multi-layered approach?? Thanks!

Deanna, thanks for posting the links. I just did a google search for "grape seed breast cancer pub med" and there are many studies that suggest grape seed extract improves outcomes for ER+ BC patients. That's terrific. Many of the papers are very technical. I found this one (link below) to be a bit easier to read. All these reports suggests grape seed acts as an AI. Since I'm pre-meno, this might not be very helpful to me. (it also makes me wonder if anyone has done studies on the bone health of women while they are taking grape seed. Somehow there is still conflicting info on tamox and pre-meno women and that drug has been around for decades.) Anyway, the paper on grape seed extra and BC:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2728696/

Thanks for the other link. I've only had a chance to skim it (and haven't read any of the references) but this paragraph on DIM (below) is a bit alarming to me. Anyone else?

Even my RO recommends eating cruciferous veggies to reduce the risk of recurrence, so I think there is something beneficial there. I just haven't done enough research to know whether the benefits of supplements outweigh any potential risks.

Anyway, here's the info on DIM:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jan2002_report_i3c_01.htm

What are some of DIM’s “opposite effects” on breast cancer cells?

I3C studies show that I3C stops the growth of estrogen receptor-positive and negative breast cancer cells in culture.[10] DIM reportedly either makes estrogen receptor positive breast cancer cells grow[11] or inhibits them[9] in culture. According to researchers at the University of California, DIM promotes the growth of human breast cancer cells about as half as well as estrogen when no estrogen is present in the culture. In addition, DIM’s inhibition of cancer cell growth was “weak” in the presence of estrogen. Remember, these are laboratory conditions only and probably don’t occur in real life. How DIM behaves, however, may depend on dose. Researchers at Texas A&M report that DIM significantly counteracts estrogen-induced growth of MCF-7 cells in culture at higher doses. However, unlike I3C which retards the growth of estrogen receptor negative breast cancer cells, DIM has no effect on estrogen receptor negative cells.[10] Another question about DIM is whether it can increase aromatase in breast and other tissue. Aromatase is an enzyme that helps create estrogen. DIM reportedly enhances the enzyme in adrenocortical cancer cells.[11]

Not only is DIM not responsible for the anti-cancer effects of I3C, it has fewer anti-cancer effects (due to fewer molecular mechanisms), when it’s isolated from the other phytochemicals that naturally occur with it.

DIM is a superior version of Indol-3-carbinol. It is excellent. I also add lots of organic flax seed to my diet. It also is excellent to control estrogen production. I researched all the conventional drugs being used and was convinced I could not allow myself to use them.

I'm on DIM.

My diet is organic almost everything, dairy free, and almost totally sugar free. I do eat meat - but organic, hormone free and grass fed. No pork as it is too hard to digest.

Music lover, I read through your link. #10 says that the soy product blocks the estrogen receptors the same way that tamox does. Thing is, tamox binds to the receptors without activating them, thus blocking estrogen from getting in there and activating them.

What I have not been able to find a reasonable answer to anywhere is how we know that phytoestrogens like the soy ones do not activate the estrogen receptors when they bind to them. As far as I know, soy extracts have been used, successfully, for menopausal symptoms, which would suggest, strongly, that they do activate the estrogen receptors.

Does anyone have any serious links that explain this?

Tamoxifen side effects do not include bone thinning/weakening as tamoxifen acts as an agonist with bones, i.e., it actually protects against bone loss, unlike an AI.  Tamoxifen, also, does not put you into permanent menopause; it may create menopausal symptoms while you are taking it, but - once you stop - these symptoms will disappear and your cycle should resume (unless you go into natural menopause during that time).

Chemotherapy, actually, has a higher risk of putting you into permanent menopause, although that seems to be age-related.  The closer you are to menopause when you have chemotherapy means that you have a much higher risk of becoming permanently menopausal as a result of chemotherapy.  Hopefully, you doctor has reviewed that with you. although, at 38 years old, you'll probably return to your normal cycle.

The reason your oncologist wants to put you on tamoxifen is that it will reduce your risk of recurrence.  Breast cancer cells can travel through tissue, through the lymphatic system as well as through the blood stream, so even though you have no lymph involvement and clean margins, there is still the potential for spread through your blood stream.  And the risk for uterine cancer is very, very low (less than 1-2 women in 1,000).

To make a really good decision about what is right for you, you need to weigh the risk of recurrence against the risk of side effects.  It may be that the difference is negligible and not worth it for you.  But, then again, it may be worth it.  If need be, get another opinion to help you sort out the information and how it pertains to you.

I never had any hot flashes while on tamoxifen, nor did I experience any severe side effects.

Rose, I agree about the IC3.