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Topic: My choice--refusing treatment

Forum: Alternative Medicine —

This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.

Posted on: Jan 24, 2017 11:34AM - edited Jan 27, 2017 11:00PM by Monetswaterlillies

Monetswaterlillies wrote:

Hi everyone,

My post won't be too popular but I'm entitled to feel the way I do--to fight cancer or not. Im 50 and recently dx with IDC. Clinical staging is in the works but regardless of the results, I just don't care to treat it. I have my reasons, and would like to talk with others who feel similar feelings.

Thanks so much, everyone.


Dx 1/20/2017, IDC, Right, Grade 1, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Mar 25, 2019 11:10AM Jons_girl wrote:

I agree second chance......I too didn't do treatment. Chose to just have surgery. I think there are alot of us here on the forum.

Dx 6/2017, IDC, Left, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 7/5/2017 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel
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Mar 25, 2019 06:30PM spratt5 wrote:

Secondchancetoo,

Thank you for sharing your journey. I'm very glad you're doing well and more importantly you feel well. It's comforting to know that there are many others out there who are survivors w/o the help of conventional treatment. Best wishes for continued health and happiness :)

Dx 3/5/2019, DCIS/IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC) Surgery 5/14/2019 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Prophylactic mastectomy: Right; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement
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Apr 6, 2019 03:17PM gracem1 wrote:

Good luck Monets!

i also wanted to run away to a natural clinic in mexico when I was first diagnosed but couldn't afford it. Good luck to you too Madeliene and I would love to know how your experience at the clinic in mexico was!

Love and strength to the whole community x

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Apr 8, 2019 09:55PM 1redgirl wrote:

I was put in contact a few months ago with a friend of a friend with bc. This woman is refusing surgery and all other conventional treatments. So as somebody that has only consented to surgery, I just listened to this woman and lent my support. This woman can feel her tumor. She sees doctors regularly and also holistic providers. She says her tumor after a year or so is smaller and softer now. She is still refusing surgery. While I disagree with that decision, I can understand her reluctance. There are cases of needle biopsies trailing cancer cells and causing cancer to spread.

I hear cancer stories every week. I just listen. I give no advice. I share my decision and why. Every woman I have met has done chemo. Most say never again. Now who knows if cancer came back, would they stick to that. Some I think would. These woman are old like me. Enough.

What I do find “interesting” are the many suspected causes of cancer which include exposure to toxins and radiation. And yet, oddly both are used to “cure” cancer. Hmmmmm.
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Apr 8, 2019 10:05PM Meow13 wrote:

I think it is so important that we make the treatment decision that we are happy with.

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Apr 9, 2019 06:34AM edwards750 wrote:

I agree Meow. What’s right for some may not be for others. It’s a tough call either way. I went the conventional route but I’m a person who would make myself crazy if I opted not to do that and it came back. I couldn’t live with the angst and guilt. . I do applaud women who go the other direction. It takes courage to refuse treatment that some doctors cram down your throat. I just hope they don’t second guess themselves or look back and wonder what if...I’ve heard of a few of those who did just that.

Diane


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Apr 9, 2019 07:58AM Naesha wrote:

hello ladies,

In coming May 4th, it will be one year of my breast cancer journey. I did went through chemo for 5 months , double mastectomy and radiation for 28 days. Sadly my path report came positive and my OC was recommending to go for another round of oral chemo after radiation but i refused to do it. Initially i was already in shocking phase that i could not decide on whether to do chemo or not. But after going through lot of pains during the chemo and doing more research about it , i slowly came to know how chemo is bad to our body and what damage it can do to our body. My OC explained to me that with oral chemo there is only 5% difference. I do not want my body to go through the same pain and do more damage so i refused to do it. My OC was supportive and said that as long as i maintain a good healthy life she supports me on my decision.

Currently i am trying to follow the holistic approach, eat healthy and maintain quality of life. So i can totally understand whoever decided not to go the conventional approach. Good luck to all the ladies. We are all together in this journey and we can beat this.

Take care


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Apr 16, 2019 08:43AM whitelight- wrote:

I too have refused all treatment and am going down the route of The German New Medicine of Dr Ryke Hammer.


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Apr 20, 2019 11:34AM L-O-R-I wrote:

Hi All, and you too whitelight!!  Maybe this forum is better suited to us, as we will be less criticized for our choices.  I don't mind a good debate, but when it comes with insults, it's not too much fun!!

Yesterday was one whole year since my surgery to have a ductal papilloma removed, which had been biopsies and came back negative.  What a shocker that they also removed some small tumors with it and the diagnosis came back DCIS and the margins were not clear!  I was never given the chance to decide whether or not to have the cancerous tumors removed because I didn't even know they were there.  I have, however, since being informed about this diagnosis, decided against all conventional methods of treatment.  To compromise with my husband, I did have some further testing (Mammogram and Ultrasound).  The results came back inconclusive so they decided to do an MRI.  That came back inconclusive as well.  The Radiologist was asked to do an ultrasound guided biopsy of their most suspicious finding.  She did this, which left me black and blue for over a week, and the findings came back as a fibroadenoma.  Then they wanted to do several more biopsies, including some under another MRI guidance.  That is where I put my foot down with my husband and said that enough is enough!  I am not a pin cushion or a target practice!!  I knew for years that if I ever had a cancer diagnosis, I would take the holistic, all natural approach, and that is what I have been doing for the past year.  I have no regrets.  I do not believe that my one year of peace (excluding those few tests) could have been better spent any other way.  I am healthier and happier for the choice that I have made and would encourage anyone to do the same, if they were to ask me.  If they don't ask me, I am not out to convert followers.  Live and let live has certainly taken on a new meaning for me!  LOL   Hugs and prayers to all in need of them!!!!   Lori

Philippians 4:13 Surgery 4/18/2018 Lumpectomy: Right Dx 4/21/2018, DCIS/IDC/IDC: Cribriform, Right, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC)
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Apr 20, 2019 01:28PM hapa wrote:

LORI, your signature says your Dx was IDC, but you only talk about DCIS and ductal papilloma, which if I'm not mistaken is not a form of IDC. Was there IDC in found in your lumpectomy? And am I correct that you did not have resection or any other treatment for the unclear margins?

Dx 12/14/2017, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Hormonal Therapy 1/2/2018 Zoladex (goserelin) Hormonal Therapy 1/2/2018 Arimidex (anastrozole) Targeted Therapy 2/14/2018 Ibrance (palbociclib) Dx 3/20/2018, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIIA, 3/18 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ (FISH) Targeted Therapy 3/28/2018 Perjeta (pertuzumab) Targeted Therapy 3/28/2018 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Chemotherapy 3/28/2018 Carboplatin (Paraplatin), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 8/22/2018 Lymph node removal: Right, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Right; Prophylactic mastectomy: Left; Reconstruction (left): Silicone implant; Reconstruction (right): Silicone implant Radiation Therapy 10/22/2018 Whole-breast: Lymph nodes, Chest wall
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Apr 20, 2019 02:02PM Lily55 wrote:

7 years for me.......but then bone mets appeared suddenly in February.......so i am now Stage 4 and the only treatment is chemo.......since I cannot move without wearing a back harness to keep me vertebrae stable and in position as my bones are fracturing easily I have had to choose between this or no treatment and although I have started chemo I have not really finally decided if I am going to continue with it.........

Dx 4/2012, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 7/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/2/2012 Lymph node removal: Right, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Right Radiation Therapy 8/14/2012 Breast, Lymph nodes Hormonal Therapy 7/18/2013 Aromasin (exemestane) Radiation Therapy 3/7/2019 External: Bone Chemotherapy Taxol (paclitaxel)
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Apr 21, 2019 10:41AM - edited Apr 21, 2019 10:45AM by L-O-R-I

hapa, yes, IDC, because they said that it went outside of the duct, which is where it apparently started.  It got confusing for me and I lost trust because they had taken several plugs from that particular duct during the initial biopsy and they all came back negative for cancer cells.  Then they removed the inflamed duct and 3 weeks later, my surgeon called me in and said that the duct was so full of cancer cells that it invaded the tissue around the duct and he told me that they had already booked me in for a further lumpectomy and node removal because the margins on the papilloma removal were not clear.  He also told me that I would have to go through radiation if the margins came back clear this time or would have to have a full mastectomy if they came back not clear.  This 2nd surgery was to be in 7 days.  My head spun for the next 5 days, from the contradictions I had heard regarding the duct and also from the treatment plans that it appeared I had no say in.  I then cancelled the surgery 2 days prior to it.  Why did it take him 3 weeks to let me know that I had breast cancer?  Why was he rushing me into surgery if there was no rush to tell me my diagnosis?  Why didn't he tell me to bring my husband in with me to hear about the cancer findings?  I thought he was just following up to see how I was healing.  Because my initial biopsy had come back as a non-cancerous ductal papilloma, my Family Dr. had given me the choice to either take an antibiotic or to have it surgically removed.  If the duct was so "full of cancer cells", why did the biopsy come back negative?  Anyways, I am grateful that I didn't chose the antibiotic option because I would not have ended up with my diagnosis until who knows when!  Whether someone chooses conventional ways, alternative ways, or a mix of the two, the sooner they are aware of their diagnosis, the better!!

Lily, I'm so sorry about your bone mets!  Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers!

Lori

Philippians 4:13 Surgery 4/18/2018 Lumpectomy: Right Dx 4/21/2018, DCIS/IDC/IDC: Cribriform, Right, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC)
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Apr 21, 2019 12:28PM hapa wrote:

Ok, well I thought a papilloma was benign, but if he said it was cancer and went so far as to give you a SNB, then it was probably actually a carcinoma. Pathology is sometimes a judgement call. I've gotten a lot of conflicting info on my path reports too, so I understand your frustration.

Dx 12/14/2017, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Hormonal Therapy 1/2/2018 Zoladex (goserelin) Hormonal Therapy 1/2/2018 Arimidex (anastrozole) Targeted Therapy 2/14/2018 Ibrance (palbociclib) Dx 3/20/2018, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIIA, 3/18 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ (FISH) Targeted Therapy 3/28/2018 Perjeta (pertuzumab) Targeted Therapy 3/28/2018 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Chemotherapy 3/28/2018 Carboplatin (Paraplatin), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 8/22/2018 Lymph node removal: Right, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Right; Prophylactic mastectomy: Left; Reconstruction (left): Silicone implant; Reconstruction (right): Silicone implant Radiation Therapy 10/22/2018 Whole-breast: Lymph nodes, Chest wall
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Apr 21, 2019 01:13PM L-O-R-I wrote:

ya hapa, for the biopsy to conclude a benign ductal papilloma (no cancer cells found) and then, after removing the duct, to change the diagnosis to IDC with many cancer cells inside the duct and invading into the surrounding tissue, was too much for my mind to process.  I've heard of errors made and I didn't know if this was one of them.  The chance of me getting another surgery, radiation, a full mastectomy, chemo, etc., etc. based on things not adding up initially, was pretty scary for me.  And then, going for a second opinion at a Cancer Research Hospital in Toronto, and them not being able to conclude via mammogram, ultrasound, MRI, or biopsy, that I had breast cancer, confirmed my choice to go with alternative methods that have no side effects what-so-ever.  Life can be hard enough without making it worse for possibly no reason.

Lori

Philippians 4:13 Surgery 4/18/2018 Lumpectomy: Right Dx 4/21/2018, DCIS/IDC/IDC: Cribriform, Right, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC)
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May 14, 2019 01:50PM 53nancy wrote:

Hello everyone. I hope this finds you all having a good day.

JoE777, that parathyroid scan never got done, but I did find out in late March that the oncologist had decided it was not necessary.. i saw her on Thursday last week and, to my surprise, she has terminated me from Cancer Care MB and I will see only my GP in future. She is sending his office a care plan about what she feels should be done over the next 3 to 5 years, but she did say that he is under no obligation to follow up with her plan. So, after a year and a half under her care, with three series of scans and other tests, I am done. I am pleased to be considered me cancer free, but still a little concerned about recurrence. She told me that if anything comes up, my doctor should send me directly to the surgeon and not to Cancer Care. But now I feel that I can move forward and, not forgetting the last two years, but be thankful for how things have gone.

Spring is slow to come this year, and it has been very dry, so the farmers are out seeding and keeping their fingers crossed for rain. We have crocuses blooming in our flowerbeds, which tulips and lilies now between three to seven inches high. Hubby is planning to mow for the first time this year.

Now must go but wishing you all the best and will be back soon. Hugs,

Surgery 7/18/2017 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Dx 8/16/2017, DCIS, Right, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/0 nodes Dx 8/16/2017, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- (IHC) Radiation Therapy 11/20/2017 Whole-breast: Breast
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May 17, 2019 04:32AM Zingiber wrote:

Check the medical research site NCBI physically located in Bethesda Maryland. Enter the following into google - ‘ncbi ginger breast cancer’ and have a look at the results. High doses of ginger kill all types of cancers, not just breast. You need capsules and not raw ginger. It is dose dependant meaning low doses are ineffective and high doses, very effective. Take with black pepper as it increases the bioavailability in the gut. My partner was diagnosed with multiple myeloma early 2019 and refused chemoand he used ginger - 7 x 550mg capsules in the AM with ground pepper and same in the PM. Reduced his results in 4 weeks to the point where Dr says he now no longer requires chemo. He will continue till it’s gone. No other treatment was used 👍

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May 17, 2019 06:01AM dtad wrote:

Zingiber...thanks so much on the info. on ginger. Could you recommend a specific ginger supplement? Thanks so much

Dx 3/20/2015, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 4/10/2015, ILC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 5/21/2015 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Silicone implant; Reconstruction (right): Silicone implant
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May 17, 2019 08:13AM gailmary wrote:

the drs have always told me my treatmentis my choice. They give me options when it's time to consider the next course of treatment. I inagine some and certainly some nurses could do better to educate us to help us make an informed decision .

To just say you won't be treatable later if you refuse treatment now is a new one. I'll have to ask today. I thought if the cancer came back then i could have a mastectomy. I didnt understand that it doesnt always come back in the breast till it happened to me. Now I'm stage 4. Its in my arm bone. Radiation I had didn't prevent it.

I skipped the chemo 10 yrs ago. Odds were that it wouldnt be so helpful. I figured if it came back I'd have a mastectomy and if I needed medicine in the future there would be more medicine available to treat me cause of constant research. That part is true. Im so glad. I dont want to die yet.


Dx 11/25/2008, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 2/12 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC) Dx 4/13/2017, Stage IV, metastasized to bone Hormonal Therapy Faslodex (fulvestrant), Femara (letrozole) Radiation Therapy
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May 17, 2019 11:07AM Meow13 wrote:

oh yeah. My instinct was really right on that ploy of you have to make a decision right now or you won't be able to get treatment 2 weeks from now. I wasn't born yesterday.

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May 17, 2019 04:16PM - edited May 17, 2019 04:17PM by Zingiber

Hi 🙋 absolutely. My partner used iherb nature's way ginger capsules 240 capsules per bottle. The max toxicity level has been tested on rats which have 97% same DNA as humans and they were given up to 500mg/kg of body weight with no side effects. You can check this research for that testing by googling 'ncbi 13-week oral toxicity study of ginger'.

You certainly wouldn't take 500mg/kg of ginger butyou can take plenty (my partner is quite cautious so he wouldn't go higher than 14 capsules per day) as I've read that ginger is dose dependant, so the more you take the better the result sooner. Always take with cracked black pepper to increase the bioavailability - he took around 1/4 to half a teaspoon with each dose of ginger.

And be confident. Ginger is amazing and actually does what the research says. He was given 5 years approx with chemo and after 4 weeks on his dose of ginger and pepper was told by his Dr no chemo necessary! I personally would take more than he did, to arrest it sooner 👍

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May 17, 2019 04:37PM Zingiber wrote:

Check my post in this forum about ginger GailMary. I’ve included what to google to find the evidence for how it kills breast cancer as well as how to search for the toxicity level of ginger, as they haven’t found one. Ginger is dose dependant so you must take lots - not raw form, must be in capsules so you get plenty. Take with pepper as pepper increases bioavailability in the gut. Always take before meals to avoid reflux. Only check proper medical research sites for your info. I’ve noted how you google search for that.

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May 17, 2019 05:03PM marijen wrote:

What brand gingerdo you buy please?

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May 17, 2019 05:12PM Zingiber wrote:

My partner used iherb nature's way ginger capsules 240 capsules per bottle. He took total of 14 capsules per day - 7 in the am and 7 in the pm with black pepper to increase bioavailability. You can take lots more than that - no toxic level found for ginger. It’s dose dependant so the more you take the better the result. Small amounts are not effective. Large amounts are highly effective. That’s why it can’t be just raw ginger - you need a lot. Higher the dose the better the next result and research shows it can’t hurt you.

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May 17, 2019 05:38PM marijen wrote:

Zingiber - I read the study but don’t understand a lot of the terminology. Many references to a CDE (choline deficient diet) I take that to mean that a diet deficient in choline helps cancer, correct? Also they refer to ginger extract and I’m wondering why you choose capsules? Anyways thank you for the information.

I found this at beatcancer.org

Why Doesn't Conventional Oncology Endorse Ginger?

Sadly, the "big three" traditional cancer protocols—surgery, chemotherapy and radiation—are big business. Why conventional medicine continues to "turn a blind eye" on natural methods of truly healing cancer boils down to one thing—money, and patent-based revenue dollars for pharmaceutical companies that sponsor most cancer research.

But just because conventional medicine does not recognize the amazing healing effects of substances like ginger doesn't mean that you cannot use them for your own healing. After all, would you rather utilize a drug such as Taxol that produces side effects like blurred vision, ulcers, fatigue, back pain, painful urination, diarrhea, hair loss, brain fog, inflammation, impaired breathing and a compromised immune system—or would you rather use a proven cancer healing protocol that has absolutely no side effects whatsoever?

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May 17, 2019 05:54PM - edited May 17, 2019 06:00PM by Zingiber

I wouldn't worry about the choline deficient diet really. The action of ginger is apoptosis. Apoptosis is an instruction to cells to suicide. Healthy cells ignore the instruction. Cancer cells obey the instruction. Scientists have no idea why. But who cares. If you enter into google 'ncbi ginger cancer' the results show how it kills all types of cancer. So there is no limit with this wonderful root.

And it's worth noting that some of the research is performed using grocery grade ginger which is just as effective. You can actually dry your own - see google for that process. But dosage might be tricky if you do it that way. Any dried ginger root will actually do as long as the dosage is 500mg per capsule or more.

Because this is a natural product available to all then it really can't be turned into a pharmaceutical product.

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May 17, 2019 06:14PM Zingiber wrote:

Oh sorry! Further to my last reply to you, I realised you asked about ginger extract.

Yes we did investigate this - ginger liquid extracted using ethanol. We were told that one dropper full of extract was equivalent to one dried ginger root capsule.

That’s why he chose the dried ginger root otherwise he would have gone through way too much liquid extract in a day and it’s very expensive.





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May 17, 2019 06:17PM marijen wrote:

Hey, I’ve already ordered and it’s pretty cheap. $5.38 for 100 caps @ the 550 mg. I like to do a small order first to make sure it agrees with me. Can’t think why it wouldn’t. It’s good for inflammation and pain too, so nothing to lose there. Thanks again

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May 17, 2019 06:29PM - edited May 17, 2019 06:47PM by Zingiber

Excellent I'm so pleased you did!

Remember though, if you take the same dosage that my partner did - 14 per day - then you'll be through that bottle in 7 days. And I was encouraging him to take more! but he was very cautious.

You might want to stockpile to stay on top of this. So as soon as you've tried it for a couple of days I think you should reorder.

Take before meals to avoid reflux!

Or just buy any brand somewhere locally, as long as they are 500mg or more per capsule.

I personally would be taking 10 am with the blackpepper and same in the pm.👍





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May 17, 2019 06:39PM marijen wrote:

I’ll start with two a day as right now I’m NED but you never know. Thanks on answering the extract question! Itll be here tomorrow :)

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May 17, 2019 06:49PM - edited May 17, 2019 09:07PM by Zingiber

A dose of two per day is too low and you wouldn’t reap any benefit.

A good maintenance dose for a healthy individual would be around 6 per day. For someone with cancer I personally would take 3 times that 😊


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