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Topic: Has anyone seen the new documentary Eating You Alive?

Forum: Alternative Medicine —

This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.

Posted on: Feb 2, 2017 06:32PM - edited Feb 2, 2017 09:01PM by sportsee

sportsee wrote:

Has anyone has watched Eating You Alive and if so, your thoughts? Thoughts on the segments relating to cancer? Thoughts on whole-food plant-based diets in general?

I was able to download and stream Eating You Alive on my mobile device last night (it's reasonably priced - only $3.99 for the digital rental - good for 30 days, 5 days once you start watching) - and I have to say, I was amazed at the testimonials, both from doctors and patients with various chronic diseases.

I'm already committed to healthy eating, but this film got me thinking about taking it to a whole new level and going all in on the whole food plant-based diet. It also got me wondering, should diet be considered part of our treatment regimen right up there along with various adjuvant therapies?

I think we all know it's important to eat healthy, but should we be more specific about what this means to each patient on a day to day basis? Should a nutritionist be part of everyone's cancer care team? Curious to know what you all think.

Food for thought, literally.

:)

Hormonal Therapy 1/9/2017 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery 1/25/2017 Lumpectomy: Right
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Feb 5, 2017 01:39PM - edited Feb 5, 2017 01:49PM by Fearless59

Hi, Sportsee,

I think we should definitely be radically changing our diets if we want to survive. But most of my cancer doctors (3) do not discuss that. I told the oncologist, I think you should help me lose weight instead of putting me on chemo, if I am er/pr +, getting to a lower weight would help me more than (poisoning) chemo and hormone reducing pills that have risks associated with them like blood clots, etc. Because apparently the more fat you have, the more estrogen gets prodeced in your fat cells. MO did tell me this.

I have read a lot online on and off this site. I am shocked at how much recurrence people are having, even when they do ALL the conventional treatments. Would be nice to know lifestyle habits of both groups, the cancer free folks and the recurrence folks. And the percentages of recurrences.

Have lots more to say so will send this and start a new one.

Dx 12/7/2016, DCIS/IDC, Left, 6cm+, Stage IIB, 1/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 5, 2017 01:48PM - edited Feb 5, 2017 03:37PM by Fearless59

I have not seen the movie, but am interested. My Nurse practitioner at an urgent care clinic, who I started with last fall before "all this" started, recommended 3 books to read for general health. Eat More, Weigh Less; Eat to Live, and How Not to Die. HNTD I read the wrong authored one first, from an autopsy doc, but that was not the correct book. But, all 3 books said much the same message, less meat, more veggies and fruits, eat way less sugar and processed stuff. Way less white flour. And they mention these folks doing this are beating heart disease and many other nasty ailments. I think cancer was on the list.

Dx 12/7/2016, DCIS/IDC, Left, 6cm+, Stage IIB, 1/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 5, 2017 03:44PM - edited Feb 6, 2017 03:02AM by Fearless59

I decided that it is not docs fault that recurrence happens..... whatever non-optimum conditions were present in a body that allowed cancer to grow in the first place, if not corrected, will cause the same result eventually after treatment. Sooner or later.

So, I am a gardener and knowing how plants survive, I want to know what allows cancer to GROW, and then I want to cut off its food supply and who cares if ALL of the cancer cells in my body are killed? Any plant will die if it does not get watered and fed what it needs to survive. I figure if I eat all the right stuff and get my body more alkaline, I am going to get a Kangen water machine to help with that, too, I think the surgery alone should be enough. Still considering rads though. But I think I will decline hormone therapy and with improved diet I should be able to lose weight easily and reduce my risk.

Anyone else thinking on these lines?

Dx 12/7/2016, DCIS/IDC, Left, 6cm+, Stage IIB, 1/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 5, 2017 04:39PM - edited Feb 5, 2017 05:08PM by sportsee

Fearless59, I will have to check out the books you mentioned. Thanks for the recommendation! Based on your comments above, you would definitely enjoy Eating You Alive, www.eatingyoualive.com.

I've also just recently downloaded the "Forks Over Knives" recipes app to help me do the whole food plant based diet in a way that also tastes good - I'm only just getting started, but I'm excited about doing everything I can to aid recovery and preventing recurrence through nutrition (even with conventional therapies).

In addition to changing my diet, I'm committing to regular exercise, movement (not sitting for more than an hour without at least getting up to stretch) and sleep to keep my stress levels down. These are things I've known I should be doing, but I've let myself slack- for instance, if I had a work deadline, I'd stay up all night or I'd occasionally eat a super sugary dessert, everything in moderation right? Nope, not for me anymore. No more "cheat days" - I feel like the one thing I can do differently that will help is to be committed to all these aspects of health and nutrition 100%.

I still have a consultation with a radiation oncologist lined up for next week so in the spirit of keeping an open mind, I'll certainly listen to their side of the story, but I'm at the point now where I'm not going to believe a decision is the right one for me simply because it's "standard of care."

I'm still amazed that my oncologist has never counseled me about my nutrition - for all he knows, I eat McDonalds three times a week and ice cream for dessert twice a week. Although this might be "normal" for most Americans, I don't think it should be normal when you're trying to recover from cancer. But that's just me and I'm not a medical professional. I'm also not out to convince anyone that my way is the right way - it's just nice to connect with others who are bringing like-minded questions to the table :)


Hormonal Therapy 1/9/2017 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery 1/25/2017 Lumpectomy: Right
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Feb 5, 2017 05:24PM solfeo wrote:

I have lost 150 lbs since diagnosis on a modified ketogenic diet. People are probably getting tired of hearing me say that but I think it does give me a little credibility when talking about weight loss and diet. I was just explaining to my friend why cheat days are not a good idea, so I agree with you.

Every time you cheat on the truly forbidden foods you reawaken the process of addiction and cravings. Certain foods also cause inflammation in the body and inflammation contributes to cancer. Exactly which foods should be eliminated is a point of controversy so you have to do your own research and follow your own heart, but I don't eat any grains, sugar, or dairy, among other restrictions.

Even one cheating episode takes a week or two to recover from on a systemic level if you go right back to being perfect, so if you are doing this once a month you are living in an inflamed, unhealthy state 25-50% of the time. Once a week and you're not much better off than if you hadn't cut back on the bad foods. It's not the 90/10 distribution you think it is when you are living healthy most of the time. It's also very difficult to regulate yourself because of the cravings that feel like hunger, but are actually a true form of addiction. The clue is the compulsion to eat certain things to our own detriment, and how that goes away when the offending substances are eliminated. Stop eating sugar and you simply won't crave it anymore.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/17/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Feb 5, 2017 09:07PM - edited Feb 5, 2017 09:08PM by sportsee

Thanks Solfeo- I appreciate your explanation on why cheat days are bad. Understanding the recovery time gives me even more motivation.

And let me just say - it was *extremely hard not to cheat at a Super Bowl party I just attended because the cheese dips looked amazing! But I stayed strong, phew!

Staying away from dairy will be harder for me than sugar.

Hormonal Therapy 1/9/2017 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery 1/25/2017 Lumpectomy: Right
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Feb 6, 2017 12:06AM - edited Feb 6, 2017 12:55AM by abigail48

coconut milk? I've not used dairy now mostly for some years, but how do you make cocoa without it. hot

chocolate with unsweetened coconul milk and maple syrup?

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Feb 6, 2017 01:08AM ChiSandy wrote:

abigail, if you heat the unsweetened coconut, almond, or coconut-almond milk (I use unsweetened vanilla coconut-almond), whatever scant natural sugars are in there will caramelize and make it taste sweeter (just as the milk in a dairy latte or cappuccino, to which no sweetener or flavoring has been added, will taste sweeter than it did cold). You could dissolve the cocoa powder in very hot water (or take some 85-95% dark chocolate—which has a negligible sugar content in the amount you’ll be using—and melt it over a pan of simmering water). Mix the non-dairy milk with the chocolate and sweeten it to taste with whatever you prefer to use. Be aware, though, that maple syrup, agave nectar, molasses and honey are all themselves forms of sugar; and having distinctive flavors of their own will also change the flavor profile of the chocolate.

There is no solid medical science supporting an alkaline diet, whether for treating or preventing cancer—the “doctor” who wrote the most popular book on it has no medical degree (i.e., neither MD, DO, nor even DC) and got his “PhD” from a diploma mill. It does, however, make sense to eat foods that tend not to cause release of cytokines that produce inflammation. There are conflicting philosophies of vegan vs. ketogenic (sugar/starch-free animal-fat-and-protein-based) diets. I will say the physician who heads the cancer survivorship program at our cancer center eats & drinks modest amounts of grass-fed organic dairy with neither hormones nor antibiotics. But her diet is mostly plant-based.

Diagnosed at 64 on routine annual mammo, no lump. OncotypeDX 16. I cried because I had no shoes...but then again, I won’t get blisters.... Dx 9/9/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC) Surgery 9/23/2015 Lumpectomy: Right Radiation Therapy 11/2/2015 3DCRT: Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2015 Femara (letrozole)
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Feb 6, 2017 02:24AM abigail48 wrote:

I have unsweetened cocoa powder but havn't used it in a long time because not using dairy. organic maple syrup has other stuff than sugars, havn't used it in a long time for the same reason

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Feb 6, 2017 02:50AM ChiSandy wrote:

Try the cocoa with almond &/or coconut milk, and maybe stevia, xylitol or monkfruit (all noncaloric wholly natural plant-based sweeteners). I find stevia very bitter, but xylitol tastes much more “purely” sweet. It should taste pretty good, without a drop of dairy. Are you refrigerating the maple syrup once it’s opened? If not, it’s probably gotten some mold and should be discarded (not safe to just skim off the mold). Unopened, it can keep indefinitely without refrigeration. I haven’t bought maple syrup in years—I have a friend who has his own grove in Ohio, taps the trees and boils the sap every year, and puts the syrup up in quart Mason jars which he sterilizes and vintage-dates. Once I open a jar (which lasts me a couple of years) I keep it in the fridge. Honey, OTOH, never spoils even after having been opened and stored at room temp for years. It’ll crystallize, but just put the jar in hot water and it’ll flow again.

Diagnosed at 64 on routine annual mammo, no lump. OncotypeDX 16. I cried because I had no shoes...but then again, I won’t get blisters.... Dx 9/9/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC) Surgery 9/23/2015 Lumpectomy: Right Radiation Therapy 11/2/2015 3DCRT: Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2015 Femara (letrozole)
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Feb 6, 2017 02:59AM abigail48 wrote:

maple sap flowing very early this year. honey will get aflatoxin I thhik it was sometimes if open and very old

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Feb 6, 2017 03:21AM - edited Feb 6, 2017 03:27AM by Fearless59

Solfeo, Congratulations on your winning with the weight loss, 150 is amazing and it sounds like you are doing great at keeping it off!!

Sportsee, nice job at the Superbowl party!! Also, I totally get it about being up all night for a deadline. I have done that sooooo much over the years it is not even funny. I did it last week to do a bid proposal for my husband, 2 weeks after surgery I am sorry to say, still up to my old tricks.

Every year at tax time I get very tired of sitting day after day making myself enter all of my husbands business receipts, drink way too much coffee and eat way too much sugar to bribe myself to keep going. Maybe exercising 10 minutes out of every hour would work better.

Like you, I am also committed to moving more. I am putting together a new wellness plan for myself, and so far it includes minimum one mile a day walking or treadmill. Or 20 minutes of other vigorous exercise. More is optional, of course.

But I am sure I need to put more fun things into my life. I work too much. I have not colored easter eggs in about 6 years which is really not right, because I love to color eggs. I do not sew enough. I have spent too much time doing what others want and I think my inner core is adamantly telling me, "Its time to start living, girl!"


Dx 12/7/2016, DCIS/IDC, Left, 6cm+, Stage IIB, 1/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 6, 2017 03:34AM - edited Feb 6, 2017 03:34AM by ChiSandy

Nope, filtered honey is naturally antiseptic. I've safely used Greek, wildflower or buckwheat honey that I bought & first opened a decade ago. (Not sure if the same is true for raw honey, though the propolis & pollen in it is supposed to be quite nutritious). It's peanut butter that develops aflatoxin. (I grind my own and use it up ASAP).

Diagnosed at 64 on routine annual mammo, no lump. OncotypeDX 16. I cried because I had no shoes...but then again, I won’t get blisters.... Dx 9/9/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC) Surgery 9/23/2015 Lumpectomy: Right Radiation Therapy 11/2/2015 3DCRT: Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2015 Femara (letrozole)
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Feb 6, 2017 04:13AM abigail48 wrote:

googled it it's botulism toxin but will only harm infants as is such low amount in honey

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Feb 6, 2017 04:14AM - edited Feb 6, 2017 04:38AM by Fearless59

ChiSandy,

Thank you for caring enough to write in the spirit of help! It is probably true that much of the anti-cancer diet "info" is anecdotal and not supported by medical science. I would guess the people who did trial and error on those home remedies were the ones who could not afford standard medical treatment and were willing to try anything, or they were trying to help others survive better, to avoid the side effects of some of the common medical remedies. Perhaps they just wanted to explore and give us some additional treatment options besides what medicos had to offer.

I respect and appreciate scientific studies. But the problem with following only "scientifically proven" stuff is one of funding and conflict of interest. Drug companies have billions of dollars available for medical studies and they give it to researchers who study the living daylights out of the products the drug companies wish to sell. Then those findings get published, doctors and med students read them, and standard of care adopts them eventually if they seem to be helpful.

But the home remedy folks do not have such a vested interest in "proving" what works. So their results go largely unnoticed by the medical community. They write a book or post their findings online, and there are always those who try to discredit them. "Oh, he is not a doctor, therefore he has no right to tell us what he found out about the human body!" Well, If it cured Aunt Bessie after the doctors gave up, I want to know about it, I do not care if the guy who discovered it is an auto mechanic or a nuclear physicist.

Cancer treatment is BIG business. What does a round of chemo cost? 30 grand? No wonder our health insurance rates are skyrocketing. I am trying to do my part to keep my health costs down. I don't want my insurer to have to pay $30,000 for chemo for me if statistically it only buys me another 6 months to live, and all 6 months of it probably with no hair. If I do chemo and rads, at 30,000 each, I do not want my insurer to have to pay for these a SECOND time five years from now because I didn't know I needed to drink less soda pop to stay well, or whatever. You get the idea.

The health insurance monthly premium for my husband and me is about $3,745 per month. Crazy, huh?

So, I am okay with operating from information based on individual personal experiences, and anecdotal evidence, when it comes to health and keeping the cancer at bay. I have a few friends, and friends of friends who have beat cancer with diet, and one of the biggest hints is.... no sugar. I should probably cite my sources on all of what I post, but I am just getting started and not quite in the groove on that yet.

A lot of caring people want us to get well and want to share simple and inexpensive wellness tips that the doctors are not really allowed to recommend to us for fear of being branded unscientific or unorthodox. The doctors' hands are tied.

I think it is up to me to take full responsibility for my own survival. And I really appreciate the do-it-yourself pioneers (both doctors and non-doctors) who have provided anti-cancer information, whether "medically proven" or not. Also, for the record, I do not think one requires a medical degree in order to be a credible witness in the fight against cancer or any other disease. Any person who has a body is welcome to tell me what he/ she has learned about how to get well, and I am very interested!

Dx 12/7/2016, DCIS/IDC, Left, 6cm+, Stage IIB, 1/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 6, 2017 04:44AM Fearless59 wrote:

Hey, Sportsee,

I think a nutrition person on the cancer tx team would help reduce costs especially if it could help people keep cancer from coming back after treatment. I am seeing so much recurrence on these posts.

Dx 12/7/2016, DCIS/IDC, Left, 6cm+, Stage IIB, 1/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 6, 2017 11:36AM solfeo wrote:

Thanks ladies. It has been a long journey but I am now only 4 lbs. away from my goal weight. I only had one plateau along the way that lasted about a month, and that turned out to be the result of eating too much protein for my body's needs.

sportsee - Cheese is allowed on a ketogenic diet within the moderate protein limit you set for yourself (important to note that keto is NOT high protein), but I usually avoid it as part of my modifications to the diet for ER+ breast cancer. There are other reasons besides the cancer that I don't eat dairy and I had already given it up before the DX, but cheese doesn't mess with my weight on this diet. On the rare occasion that I do cheat (2-3 x per year we go out to eat, and I will eat a few bites of forbidden foods but not a whole order), I don't worry about a little cheese or ranch dressing. I just don't eat it regularly, and I do try to choose goat and sheep cheese (less inflammatory for most people) over dairy from cows when available. Assuming there was no flour in the cheese dips at your Super Bowl party I probably would have indulged a little if there was something healthy to dip in it, like celery sticks. What I wouldn't allow in even trace amounts is the crackers or chips.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/17/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Feb 6, 2017 01:34PM - edited Feb 6, 2017 01:42PM by solfeo

Cardiologist Dr. William Davis has been my diet guru of sorts. He got me started losing weight before my diagnosis, but my current diet is more strict than his basic recommendations because of the cancer. It might be a good place to start for others who don't feel ready to go full keto. His diet will reduce inflammation and blood sugar, and rid you of the food cravings that sabotage your success. My CRP level (inflammation marker in the blood) went from 6.6 to <1 over several months. Here's BCO's article on CRP and risk of death from breast cancer: High C-Reactive Protein Levels May Influence Prognosis . At 6.6 I was in the highest risk group, and now I am in the lowest. My A1C is down to 4.9, and I could also be the poster child for healthy blood lipid levels.

He talks about the addictive properties of grains in this recent blog post, linked below. There are real physiological reasons it's so hard to "control" eating certain foods, and the only cure for the cravings is elimination of the addictive substances.

It's Time to Kick the Grain Habit.

By Dr. Davis | January 11, 2017

Grains contain opiates. Not figuratively, but quite literally. These opiates are not too different from morphine or heroin. Yes, wheat and grains, cleverly disguised as a multigrain loaf of bread to make sandwiches or a hot, steamy plate of macaroni and cheese for the kids are mind-altering drugs. You and your kids are not oxycodone addicts, but when you consume wheat and grains, the results are not all that different.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/17/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Apr 12, 2017 01:39PM mapat wrote:

A plant-based diet is essential for me.

Some interesting sites, including many references to scientific studies.


https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/healt...

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/healt...

https://www.drmcdougall.com/





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