Mar 30, 2018 09:18AM dtad wrote:
Good question. I also take DIM in leu of an aromatase inhibitor. I pretty much thought I was covered broccoli wise!
This forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. Alternative medicine refers to treatments that are used INSTEAD of standard, evidence-based treatment. Breastcancer.org does NOT recommend or endorse alternative medicine.
Posted on: Mar 30, 2018 09:13AM
I have a question for you intelligent lovely ladies... I'm seeing a naturopathic oncologist and she prescribed broccoli seed extract to target the cancer stem cells. Seems incredible doesn't it? When I got home I did a search and found this:
In the early 1990s, scientists at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine identified glucoraphanin as a naturally occurring compound in broccoli that, when converted to sulforaphane, possessed antioxidant activity and appeared to be responsible for the epidemiological findings that diets rich in cruciferous vegetables were correlated with lower incidence of chronic health issues.
Since 1992, glucoraphanin and its bio-active form sulforaphane have been extensively studied at Johns Hopkins and other medical institutions around the world. More than 1,700 studies have been published which support the possible health benefits of these compounds.
I am taking broccoli seed extract but is it the same as DIM? Is it necessary to take DIM supplements if I'm taking broccoli seed extract?
Posts 1 - 30 (32 total)
Mar 30, 2018 09:18AM dtad wrote:
Good question. I also take DIM in leu of an aromatase inhibitor. I pretty much thought I was covered broccoli wise!
Mar 30, 2018 12:09PM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
Are you taking both? I'm wondering if it would be overkill to take the broccoli seed extract in addition to DIM.
Mar 30, 2018 12:20PM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
Promising study on the benefits of broccoli sprouts:Sulforaphane, a Dietary Component of Broccoli/Broccoli Sprouts, Inhibits Breast Cancer Stem Cells
The existence of cancer stem cells (CSCs) in breast cancer has profound implications for cancer prevention. In this study, we evaluated sulforaphane, a natural compound derived from broccoli/broccoli sprouts, for its efficacy to inhibit breast CSCs and its potential mechanism.Experimental Design
Aldefluor assay and mammosphere formation assay were used to evaluate the effect of sulforaphane on breast CSCs in vitro. A NOD/SCID xenograft model was employed to determine whether sulforaphane could target breast CSCs in vivo, as assessed by Aldefluor assay and tumor growth upon cell re-implantation in secondary mice. The potential mechanism was investigated utilizing Western blotting analysis and β-catenin reporter assay.Results
Sulforaphane (1~5 μM) decreased aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH)-positive cell population by 65%~80% in human breast cancer cells (P < 0.01), and reduced the size and number of primary mammospheres by 8~125-fold and 45%~75% (P < 0.01), respectively. Daily injection with 50 mg/kg sulforaphane for two weeks reduced ALDH-positive cells by more than 50% in NOD/SCID xenograft tumors (P = 0.003). Sulforaphane eliminated breast CSCs in vivo, thereby abrogating tumor growth after re-implantation of primary tumor cells into the secondary mice (P < 0.01). Western blotting analysis and β-catenin reporter assay showed that sulforaphane down-regulated Wnt/β-catenin self-renewal pathway.Conclusions
Sulforaphane inhibits breast CSCs and down-regulates Wnt/β-catenin self-renewal pathway. These findings support the use of sulforaphane for chemoprevention of breast cancer stem cells and warrant further clinical evaluation.
Keywords: sulforaphane, breast cancer stem cell, aldehyde dehydrogenase, mammosphere, NOD/SCID mouse
Mar 30, 2018 12:36PM HappyHammer wrote:
BB101- DO you think it would be ok to take the broccoli seed extract AND Arimidex? May ask my MO and see what he thinks- would LOVE to go off the Arimidex- been on it for only 2 years though.
Mar 30, 2018 12:50PM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
I don't see why not, but always check with your MO. If you get the okay to take the broccoli seed extract, be sure that you take the True Broc brand, which is the one formulated and patented by the John Hopkins University-- if I'm not mistaken. One reputable label that uses Truebroc SGS is manufactured by Thorne supplements and it can be found on Amazon.com: Thorne Research - Crucera-SGS - Broccoli Seed Extract for Antioxidant Support - Sulforaphane Glucosinolate (SGS) - 60 Capsules
Mar 31, 2018 10:07AM dtad wrote:
Bossombuddy...no I only take DIM.
Mar 31, 2018 07:48PM Husband11 wrote:
This is very interesting. I am currently reviewing the literature on drug interactions with sulforaphane and also its potential to inhibit cytochrome enzyme pathaways in particulars those required for metabolizing commonly used drugs. There is conflicting information on whether it significantly inhibits cyp3a4.
Mar 31, 2018 09:30PM gigibee wrote:
I have recently ordered the Brassica green tea bagswith True Broc based on a recommendation I found on another post .
Apr 2, 2018 11:42AM - edited Apr 2, 2018 11:43AM by Husband11
Looks like a really good supplement, with potential to directly impact cancer cells and the hormones that fuel their growth. Unfortunately because of potential drug interactions, large quantities of broccoli, or concentrated derivatives are not compatible with the medications my wife is currently on, ibrance and letrozole. Brocolli and its deriviatives have potential to adversely impact the enzyme pathway cyp3a4, which is used by nearly half of all drugs.
See my search results below. Some research is contradictory, but out of an abundance of caution, my recommendation would be to avoid large quantities of broccoli or concentrates if you are on medications that could be impacted.
Search terms - Broccoli cytochrome enzymes:
J Med Food. 2016 Dec;19(12):1141-1146. Epub 2016 Oct 25.
Influence of Sulforaphane Metabolites on Activities of Human Drug-Metabolizing Cytochrome P450 and Determination of Sulforaphane in Human Liver Cells.
Vanduchova A1, Tomankova V2, Anzenbacher P1, Anzenbacherova E2.
1 Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, Palacky University Olomouc , Czech Republic .
2 Department of Medical Chemistry and Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, Palacky University Olomouc , Czech Republic .
The influence of metabolites of sulforaphane, natural compounds present in broccoli (Brassica oleracea var. botrytis italica) and in other cruciferous vegetables, on drug-metabolizing cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes in human liver microsomes and possible entry of sulforaphane into human hepatic cells were investigated. Metabolites studied are compounds derived from sulforaphane by the mercapturic acid pathway (conjugation with glutathione and by following reactions), namely sulforaphane glutathione and sulforaphane cysteine conjugates and sulforaphane-N-acetylcysteine. Their possible effect on four drug-metabolizing CYP enzymes, CYP3A4 (midazolam 1'-hydroxylation), CYP2D6 (bufuralol 1'-hydroxylation), CYP1A2 (7-ethoxyresorufin O-deethylation), and CYP2B6 (7-ethoxy-4-(trifluoromethyl)coumarin O-deethylation), was tested. Inhibition of four prototypical CYP activities by sulforaphane metabolites was studied in pooled human liver microsomes. Sulforaphane metabolites did not considerably affect biological function of drug-metabolizing CYPs in human liver microsomes except for CYP2D6, which was found to be inhibited down to 73-78% of the original activity. Analysis of the entry of sulforaphane into human hepatocytes was done by cell disruption by sonication, methylene chloride extraction, and modified high-performance liquid chromatography method. The results have shown penetration of sulforaphane into the human hepatic cells.
Phytother Res. 2015 Jan;29(1):93-9. doi: 10.1002/ptr.5232. Epub 2014 Sep 19.
Modulating potential of L-sulforaphane in the expression of cytochrome p450 to identify potential targets for breast cancer chemoprevention and therapy using breast cell lines.
Licznerska B1, Szaefer H, Matuszak I, Murias M, Baer-Dubowska W.
Department of Pharmaceutical Biochemistry, Poznan University of Medical Sciences, Poznań, Poland.
The L-sulforaphane (SFN) component of broccoli sprout showed anticancer activity in several preclinical studies including breast cancer. Estrogens are considered major risk factors in breast carcinogenesis. The aim of this study was to evaluate the effect of SFN on the expression of cytochrome P450 involved in the estrogen metabolism in breast cancer cell lines MCF7 and MDA-MB-231 and in non-tumorigenic MCF10A cell line. The expression of CYP19, CYP1A1, 1A2, 1B1 was determined at the transcript and protein levels. There were found some remarkable differences in the effect of SFN at a dose of 5 µmol/L on CYP19 expression: in ER(+) MCF7 significant reduction, in ER(-) MDA-MB-231 an increased expression and unchanged expression in MCF10A cell line. The effect of SFN on CYPs (1A1, 1A2, 1B1) involved in estrogen catabolism was to a lesser extent dependent on breast cell line. The slightly reduced CYP1A1 protein level was observed in all cell lines tested. An increased level of CYP1A2 and decreased level of CYP1B1 expression were found in MCF10A. These results indicate that the naturally occurring L isomer of SFN may affect the expression of P450s involved in estrogen metabolism. This effect may contribute to the anticancer activity of SFN in breast tissue.
Inhibitory effects of kale ingestion on metabolism by cytochrome P450 enzymes in rats.
Yamasaki I1, Yamada M, Uotsu N, Teramoto S, Takayanagi R, Yamada Y.
Research Institute, FANCL Co., Kamishinano, Totsuka-ku, Yokohama, Japan. firstname.lastname@example.org
Kale (Brassica oleracea L. var acephala DC) is a leafy green vegetable belonging to the cabbage family (Brassicaceae) that contains a large amount of health-promoting phytochemicals. There are any reports about the effects of kale ingestion on the chemoprevention function and mechanism, but the interactions between kale and drugs have not been researched. We investigated the effects of kale intake on cytochrome P450 (CYP) metabolism by using cocktail probe drugs, including midazolam (for CYP3A4), caffeine (for CYP1A2), dextromethorphan (for CYP2D6), tolbutamide (for CYP2C9), omeprazole (for CYP2C19), and chlorzoxazone (for CYP2E1). Cocktail drugs were administered into rats treated with kale and cabbage (2000 mg/kg) for a week. The results showed that kale intake induced a significant increase in plasma levels and the AUC of midazolam, caffeine, and dextromethorphan. In addition, the plasma concentration and AUC of omeprazole tended to increase. Additionally, no almost differences in the mRNA expression levels of CYP enzymes in the liver were observed. In conclusion, kale ingestion was considered to have an inhibitory effect on the activities of CYP3A4, 1A2, 2D6, and 2C19 for a reason competitive inhibition than inhibitory changes in the mRNA expressions.
Modulation of CYP1A1, CYP1A2 and CYP1B1 expression by cabbage juices and indoles in human breast cell lines.
Szaefer H1, Licznerska B, Krajka-Kuźniak V, Bartoszek A, Baer-Dubowska W.
Department of Pharmaceutical Biochemistry, Poznań University of Medical Sciences, Poznań, Poland.
Epidemiological studies have shown that consumption of cabbage and sauerkraut is connected with significant reduction of breast cancer incidences. Estrogens are considered a major breast cancer risk factor and their metabolism by P450 enzymes substantially contributes to carcinogenic activity. The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of cabbage and sauerkraut juices of different origin on the expression profile of the estrogen metabolism key enzymes (CYP1A1, CYP1A2, CYP1B1) in breast cell lines MCF7, MDA-MB-231, and MCF10A. The effects of cabbage juices were compared with that exerted by indole-3-carbinol (I3C) and 3,3'-diindolylmethane (DIM). The treatment with cabbage juices or indoles for 72 h affected the expression of CYP1 family genes in cell-type dependent manner. Their induction was found in all cell lines, but the ratio of CYP1A1 to CYP1B1 was 1.22- to 10.6-fold in favor to CYP1A1 in MCF7 and MCF10A cells. Increased levels of CYP1A2 in comparison with CYP1B1 were also observed in MCF7 cells. In contrast, in MDA-MB-231 cells CYP1B1 was preferentially induced. Since the cell lines investigated differ in invasion capacity, these results support epidemiological observations and partly explain the mechanism of the chemopreventive activity of white cabbage products.
J Food Sci. 2011 May;76(4):R112-24. doi: 10.1111/j.1750-3841.2011.02155.x.
Potential risks resulting from fruit/vegetable-drug interactions: effects on drug-metabolizing enzymes and drug transporters.
Rodríguez-Fragoso L1, Martínez-Arismendi JL, Orozco-Bustos D, Reyes-Esparza J, Torres E, Burchiel SW.
Facultad de Farmacia, Univ. Autónoma del Estado de Morelos, Cuernavaca, México. email@example.com
It has been well established that complex mixtures of phytochemicals in fruits and vegetables can be beneficial for human health. Moreover, it is becoming increasingly apparent that phytochemicals can influence the pharmacological activity of drugs by modifying their absorption characteristics through interactions with drug transporters as well as drug-metabolizing enzyme systems. Such effects are more likely to occur in the intestine and liver, where high concentrations of phytochemicals may occur. Alterations in cytochrome P450 and other enzyme activities may influence the fate of drugs subject to extensive first-pass metabolism. Although numerous studies of nutrient-drug interactions have been published and systematic reviews and meta-analyses of these studies are available, no generalizations on the effect of nutrient-drug interactions on drug bioavailability are currently available. Several publications have highlighted the unintended consequences of the combined use of nutrients and drugs. Many phytochemicals have been shown to have pharmacokinetic interactions with drugs. The present review is limited to commonly consumed fruits and vegetables with significant beneficial effects as nutrients and components in folk medicine. Here, we discuss the phytochemistry and pharmacokinetic interactions of the following fruit and vegetables: grapefruit, orange, tangerine, grapes, cranberry, pomegranate, mango, guava, black raspberry, black mulberry, apple, broccoli, cauliflower, watercress, spinach, tomato, carrot, and avocado. We conclude that our knowledge of the potential risk of nutrient-drug interactions is still limited. Therefore, efforts to elucidate potential risks resulting from food-drug interactions should be intensified in order to prevent undesired and harmful clinical consequences.
Sulforaphane (SFN) is a biologically active phytochemical found abundantly in broccoli. SFN has been promoted as a putative chemopreventive agent to reduce cancer, and most studies have associated its anti-cancer effects with the induction of phase II xenobiotic metabolism enzymes via activation of the Keap1/Nrf2 antioxidant response pathway. Interestingly, SFN can significantly down-regulate cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) expression in human primary hepatocytes. CYP3A4 is responsible for the hepatic and intestinal metabolism of numerous protoxicants, pharmaceutical compounds, and endogenous sterols.
containing high doses of glucosinolates and/or isothiocyanates during pregnancy or lactation in humans.
Isothiocyanates are not known to interact with any drugs or medications. However, the potential for isothiocyanates to inhibit various isoforms of the cytochrome P450 (CYP) family of enzymes raises the potential for interactions with drugs that are CYP substrates (see Biological Activities). Isothiocyanates may sensitize cancer cells to anticancer drugs and/or increase drug cytotoxicity, as shown in in vitro and animal models. Yet, these potential benefits of isothiocyanates in cancer therapy have not been explored in clinical trials (72).
Apr 2, 2018 02:14PM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
I'm incredibly impressed with your research into this very complicated subject! Thank-you so much for sharing your knowledge.
Apr 2, 2018 02:36PM - edited Apr 2, 2018 02:42PM by Husband11
I am very excited about this supplement, but at the same time don't want it to cause any adverse drug interactions.
There is an interesting phase II clinical trial underway in Europe to test a man made, stabilized version of sulforaphane in metastatic ER+ breast cancer patients along with conventional treatments. Its called sulforadex, or SFX-01.
The trial is a phase 2, parallel group design in patients with ER positive metastatic breast cancer.
This study will be a multicentre study conducted over an 18 month period. Patients who are taking either a third generation AI, tamoxifen or fulvestrant and have a documented evidence of progressive disease after achieving a best response of stable disease (for at least 6 months) or an objective response of CR or PR on the current treatment indicating the development of secondary resistance to current therapy will be entered into the study having undergone a screening period to continue receiving the same treatment with the addition of SFX-01.
At least 60 patients will be enrolled into one of three arms in a 1:1:1 ratio, i.e. 20 patients per arm. Enrolment will be based on current treatment.
Treatment Arm A: All patients will continue to receive their AI and, at the start of the study (D1), patients will additionally take SFX-01.
Treatment Arm B: All patients will continue to receive tamoxifen and, at the start of the study (D1), patients will additionally take SFX-01
Treatment Arm C: All patients will continue to receive fulvestrant 500 mg IM in 28 day Cycles and, at the start of the study (D1), patients will additionally take SFX-01.
Patient participation will include a Screening Phase, a Treatment Phase, and a Follow-up Phase of up to 28 weeks post D1 of dosing. The Screening Phase will be up to 28 days prior to enrolment. The Treatment Phase will extend from enrolment until the patient is discontinued from study treatment. The Follow-up Phase will be a maximum of 28 weeks and extend from the time of study entry until 30 days after the patient discontinues trial therapy.
From investor data:
SFX-01 in breast cancer
Breast cancer is the biggest cause of cancer deaths in women worldwide. In around 75% of breast cancers, the hormone oestrogen plays a key part in tumour growth. Such tumours express the oestrogen receptor (ER+) and, if the cancer is metastatic, endocrine therapy is the main treatment. It is thought that hormone independent cancer stem cells are implicated in metastasis, thereby explaining the occurrence of metastasis during hormone therapy.
Evgen Pharma is very fortunate to have been working with the Cancer Research UK Manchester Institute since 2012. Earlier this year, this collaboration resulted in the presentation of promising data showing SFX-01 reducing the number of cancer stem cells in patient-derived breast cancer tissue in xenograft models. The xenograft studies used a combination of hormone therapy and SFX-01, with the role of SFX-01 being to mop up the cancer stem cells. The data was presented at the American Association of Cancer Research annual conference in Philadelphia in April 2015.
A Phase IIa clinical trial of SFX-01 and hormone therapy is expected to begin recruiting in Q3 calendar year 2016 at Manchester's Christie Hospital NHS Foundation Trust and supporting sites in the North West of England. The trial, in about 40 patients with ER+ metastatic breast cancer, will be placebo controlled and will use tumour growth retardation as its primary endpoint. A Company announcement will be issued when the first patient is dosed in the trial, which is expected to complete at the end of 2017. The trial is designed to create the opportunity for an early efficacy signal after which a larger Phase IIb trial could be conducted.
Apr 2, 2018 02:48PM - edited Apr 2, 2018 03:24PM by Husband11
A poster from a 2018 European conference:
It would appear to be working.
Prior to entry to the STEM trial, patients must have previously responded to their current hormone therapy for at least six months but then present with progressive disease, thereby demonstrating the start of resistance to the hormone therapy. Once entered into the trial, patients continue to receive their hormone therapy in addition to SFX-01 and have regular scans through to week 24. Patients discontinue the trial when one of the scans shows disease progression or at week 24.
The Company announces today that the first patient to enter the STEM trial is now approaching week 24, having demonstrated no disease progression for three consecutive scans. On this basis, the Company has initiated a compassionate use programme, so that patients can continue to receive SFX-01 after week 24.
Apr 2, 2018 11:30PM Outfield wrote:
I have eaten broccoli sprouts for years (basically regardless of any CYP450 interactions - I am not worried about having decreased the effectiveness of the AI I'm on as estradiol levels have remained very, very low, and I don't have severe side effects) .
I see early in this thread that broccoli seed extract is mentioned. Is there evidence this seed contains similar levels of the same compounds as the sprouts? The original Johns Hopkins rodent work was using sprouts, and since gene expression in (and therefore composition of) a growing plant is very different from a seed, I'm wondering if seeds are relevant? It's a selfish question because every ounce of sprouts I eat makes me dislike them more.
Apr 3, 2018 08:19AM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
This is the very same question I had. The brand I'm taking is a patented formulation from John Hopkins University so naturally I couldn't find much information on it. I've been adding broccoli micro greens to my salads since day one. Here is a definition from the National Cancer Institute:
Apr 3, 2018 10:58AM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
It appears that eating broccoli sprouts or micro greens in addition to the glucoraphanin supplement (SGS broccoli extract) can lead to a two fold increase in sulforaphane absorption. Supplements lack the enzyme myrosinase to convert glucoraphanin to sulforaphane. Here is a study that discusses this:Sulforaphane Absorption and Excretion Following Ingestion of a Semi-Purified Broccoli Powder Rich in Glucoraphanin and Broccoli Sprouts in Healthy Men
Sulforaphane (SF) is a chemopreventive isothiocyanate (ITC) derived from the myrosinase-catalyzed hydrolysis of glucoraphanin, a thioglucoside present in broccoli. Broccoli supplements often contain glucoraphanin but lack myrosinase, putting in question their ability to provide dietary SF. This study compared the relative absorption of SF from air-dried broccoli sprouts rich in myrosinase and a glucoraphanin-rich broccoli powder lacking myrosinase, individually and in combination. Subjects (n = 4) each consumed 4 meals consisting of dry cereal and yogurt with 2 g sprouts, 2 g powder, both, or neither. Blood and urine were analyzed for SF metabolites. The 24 h urinary SF recovery was 74%, 49%, and 19% of the dose ingested from broccoli sprouts, combination, and broccoli powder meals, respectively. Urinary and plasma ITC appearance was delayed from the broccoli powder compared to the sprouts and combination. A liver function panel indicated no toxicity from any treatment at 24 h. These data indicate a delayed appearance in plasma and urine of SF from the broccoli powder relative to SF from myrosinase-rich sprouts. Combining broccoli sprouts with the broccoli powder enhanced SF absorption from broccoli powder, offering the potential for development of foods that modify the health impact of broccoli products.
Apr 3, 2018 11:24AM - edited Apr 3, 2018 05:14PM by Husband11
It looks like sulforaphane is a very unstable and somewhat fickle substance to obtain from cruciferous vegetables. Even the cooking time has a very narrow window for optimal sulforaphane production. To me, this supports finding a reliable supplement that provides its precursors.
On the subject of drug interactions with sulforaphane metabolites, it must not be a worry for the clinical trial with sulforadex, SFX-01, as they are combining it with aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen in two arms of the trial. Tamoxifen relies on metabolism into endoxifen to be most active.
It's worth watching the results, as it will apply to any decent source of sulforaphane (precursors, as sulforaphane itself is a short lived, unstable substance in nature). It's quite encouraging that a patient who was progressing on a failed anti hormonal therapy, now has 24 and counting weeks of stability, after adding in SFX-01 to the anti hormonal.
Apr 3, 2018 04:07PM Outfield wrote:
Interesting and not at all surprising that Johns Hopkins patented the supplement - years ago they patented sprouts themselves which led to a lawsuit with the landmark result being a judgement that one can't patent a naturally-occurring food just because one finds a new medicinal use for it. Going for a different way to patent the same thing is a classic trick of pharmaceutical companies - any doctor or pharmacist would know to try that end-run.
Still, I remain optimistic about the supplement because, as I mentioned, I really hate the sprouts. I hate sprouting them (leagues more difficult than things like clover or alfalfa) and I hate the taste. I hate that they go bad really, really fast. And I do remember what Husband11 brought up about the instability of the compounds - things have to be timed right, and you have to do something to release the contents of the cells of the sprouts because if you just swallowed them whole and raw, nothing would be absorbed. At that time, crushing (as in chewing heartily) was thought to be sufficient, which appears to be supported by the study BosomBuddy brought up. To chew thoroughly something that I really hate takes a lot of motivation.
Apr 4, 2018 09:28AM - edited Apr 4, 2018 09:31AM by Bosombuddy101
Nutramax makes a product called Avmacol and it has both glucoraphanin and myrosinase. This product has been verified and tested by the researchers at Johns Hopkins to contain what it says it does. I went to the company website and even amazon, and it's sold out! I guess everyone and his brother knows about this product.
There is also a product called Prostaphane which has been used in studies to treat prostate cancer and shown to change PSA levels in cancer patients and the bioavailability of sulforaphane of this product is essentially identical to the one used in the Johns Hopkins studies. Unfortunately it's not sold in North America.
Thorne Crucera SGS has only glucoraphanin. This product has also been verified by Johns Hopkins to contain what it says.
Now I'm wondering why I wasn't prescribed Nutramax?? Ughhh....
Apr 4, 2018 11:36AM Husband11 wrote:
Vitacost has broccoli sprout extracts and other sulforaphane products. No idea of their suitability though.
Apr 4, 2018 12:26PM - edited Apr 4, 2018 01:00PM by Bosombuddy101
According to Dr. Jed Fahey at Johns Hopkins, there are many supplements out there that don't contain what they claim on the package, so consumers have to be very careful what they buy. This is especially concerning for someone with cancer. The products I mentioned have been tested and verified by Johns Hopkins.
Apr 4, 2018 01:07PM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
I'm currently drinking a smoothie of frozen berries, probiotic yogurt, banana, ground flaxseed, 1 cup of broccoli sprouts, 1/4 capsule of broccoli seed extract and ground mustard seed ( apparently mustard seed has myrosinase). Although it does taste slightly medicinal, I can't taste the broccoli sprouts
Apr 4, 2018 04:33PM Kath1228 wrote:
After all the discussion about this topic, I posted a question to the Johns Hopkins Ask an Expert Breast Cancer website. I have been drinking one cup of TrueBroc brassica tea everyday (or most days any way) so I became concerned about the possible interactions mentioned here. I am taking letrozole for the last 4 years.
I diereclty asked about the CYP3A4 pathway and any possible interactions between letrozole and the brassica tea and they responded it is safe to drink the tea while on letrozole . I am taking them at their word - and know that this has been researched at Johns Hopkins for the last 45 years. I am hoping they dont have some sort of vested interest in it, however.........
Apr 4, 2018 05:44PM miranda2060 wrote:
dtad, how is the DIM for you?
I am slated to take an AI and really interested in knowing about alternatives. I'm sure my MO will be more than skeptical, but....
Apr 5, 2018 12:20AM Outfield wrote:
Of course Johns Hopkins has a vested interest in this. They battled for their first patent, which would have been the sprouts themselves and which would have had tremendous agricultural/economic ramifications. To small businesses involved at the time in sprouting, they were the big bad wolf.
I personally have little respect for their "Ask An Expert" website, although it's been quite a few years since I looked at it. It seems to function mainly as a net to draw in patients to JHU for second opinions. If it's still the nurse answering posts, she puts herself in a the position of being forced to say little of substance in response to many questions since she cannot see the full records or examine the "patient" and the forum isn't private, and being a medical professional she has to pay attention to those things. Nevertheless, that's the sort of thing people ask her, and all she can say is "Schedule an appointment . . .
The quality of supplements is a widely-known problem. Lots of people assume they're regulated by the FDA (they're not). A couple non-profit organizations test supplements for content - not just for presence of claimed ingredients but for presence of unclaimed ingredients (like sildenafil in supposed herbal preparations for erectile dysfunction) and toxins. One is ConsumerLab, which funds its studies two ways: 1) members' subscription fees and 2) payment from makers of supplements that were not tested when a particular category was chosen. For example if the category is melatonin and ConsumerLab tests products made by manufacturers A,B,and C, manufacturers D and E can pay to have their products tested an included in the report. I am completely spacing the name of the other one - I have not used it nearly as much because I heard of it more recently.
BosomBuddy, I've been using something similar to your recipe but minus the seed extract and the mustard seed. Sprouty aftertaste, but I can get it down. I'll give those adjustments a try. I know I was complainy above, but I'm pretty dedicated to doing this. Anything that as far as we know has a higher chance of helping than hurting.
Apr 5, 2018 08:21AM - edited Apr 5, 2018 08:22AM by Bosombuddy101
As a breast cancer patient, I'm incredibly grateful for the research that Johns Hopkins has done into sulforaphane and the work that they continue to do to insure quality control on these brands by testing every batch that comes out. Researchers around the world are using these products in their studies -- for example Avmacol is being prescribed to patients in studies for autism spectrum disorder. If these products are used by researchers, hey, I'm on board. What I put in my mouth and peace of mind is a HUGE thing for me.
I still don't understand the difference between DIM and broccoli seed extract and what is the benefit of drinking the tea?
Apr 5, 2018 10:01AM dtad wrote:
miranda...yes I do think your MO will be skeptical, at the least! I'm 3 years NED and so far so good!
Apr 5, 2018 10:38AM KayaRose wrote:
Since I hate broccoli, I've been drinking the true broc green tea from Brassica. Here's what it says on their web page:
"Green and black teas contain antioxidants and polyphenols that help to neutralize harmful free radicals. Only Brassica® Tea has the added benefit of glucoraphanin, a powerhouse antioxidant found primarily in broccoli. Each cup contains 15mg of TrueBroc® glucoraphanin extracted from broccoli seeds. Yes – broccoli! Each tea bag with TrueBroc® contains the equivalent of about 1/4 head of broccoli."
I am hoping this will truly provide the antioxidants as it states. I'm on anastrozole and have asked my MO about taking it. She sees no problems with it. After reading all the comments here, I acknowledge that I'm way out of my league with most of you as far as research on supplements, etc., but I do try to eat healthy foods which are known to have antioxidant qualities. Broccoli, which is supposed to be one of the best, tastes just awful to me. If I can get it in green tea, I'm happy. However, if Johns Hopkins had not been involved in the process, I may not have considered drinking the tea. There are too many unknowns about supplement production and contents that I am hesitant to take any that are not widely accepted as safe.
Apr 5, 2018 02:28PM AngelsGal57 wrote:
Has anyone suffered from daily PMS type side effects from the Hormone blockers. What do you do to ease these. I am an emotional wreck this is my 3rd month and I dont think I could handle 5 years of this emotional roller coaster. I am taking an herbal product Pueraria Mirifica that also contains 50 mg DIM.
Apr 5, 2018 07:59PM Bosombuddy101 wrote:
Wow, the teas have that much glucoraphanin in each bag? I should order a box. You know, I feel exactly the same way about supplements and I take comfort in knowing that this brand has the research and support of Johns Hopkins.
I found out the difference between I3C (Indole-3-carbonol a precuror to DIM diindolylmethane) and broccoli seed/sprout extract. There are some conflicting studies on the benefits of I3C.
So DIM is different from I3C, yes?Broccoli sprouts: An exceptionally rich source of inducers of enzymes that protect against chemical carcinogens Jed W. Fahey, Yuesheng Zhang, and Paul Talalay* ABSTRACT
Induction of phase 2 detoxication enzymes [e.g., glutathione transferases, epoxide hydrolase, NAD(P)H: quinone reductase, and glucuronosyltransferases] is a powerful strategy for achieving protection against carcinogenesis, mutagenesis, and other forms of toxicity of electrophiles and reactive forms of oxygen. Since consumption of large quantities of fruit and vegetables is associated with a striking reduction in the risk of developing a variety of malignancies, it is of interest that a number of edible plants contain substantial quantities of compounds that regulate mammalian enzymes of xenobiotic metabolism. Thus, edible plants belonging to the family Cruciferae and genus Brassica (e.g., broccoli and cauliflower) contain substantial quantities of isothiocyanates (mostly in the form of their glucosinolate precursors) some of which (e.g., sulforaphane or 4-methylsulfinylbutyl isothiocyanate) are very potent inducers of phase 2 enzymes. Unexpectedly, 3-day-old sprouts of cultivars of certain crucifers including broccoli and cauliflower contain 10–100 times higher levels of glucoraphanin (the glucosinolate of sulforaphane) than do the corresponding mature plants. Glucosinolates and isothiocyanates can be efficiently extracted from plants, without hydrolysis of glucosinolates by myrosinase, by homogenization in a mixture of equal volumes of dimethyl sulfoxide, dimethylformamide, and acetonitrile at −50°C. Extracts of 3-day-old broccoli sprouts (containing either glucoraphanin or sulforaphane as the principal enzyme inducer) were highly effective in reducing the incidence, multiplicity, and rate of development of mammary tumors in dimethylbenz(a)anthracene-treated rats. Notably, sprouts of many broccoli cultivars contain negligible quantities of indole glucosinolates, which predominate in the mature vegetable and may give rise to degradation products (e.g., indole-3-carbinol) that can enhance tumorigenesis. Hence, small quantities of crucifer sprouts may protect against the risk of cancer as effectively as much larger quantities of mature vegetables of the same variety.
Here is another cheery study on indole-3-carbinol:
The consumption of cruciferous vegetables (the Family of Cruciferae) such as cabbage, broccoli and Brussels sprouts has been shown to have cancer chemopreventive effects in humans and experimental animals. Indole-3-carbinol (I3C), one component of cruciferous vegetables, has been shown to exert cancer chemopreventive influence in liver, colon, and mammary tissue when given before or concurrent with exposure to a carcinogen. However in some reports, there has been evidence that consumption of I3C after carcinogen treatment might be associated with tumor promotion in some tissues. There have been no reports, to our knowledge, of post-initiation effects of I3C in the N-methyl-N-nitrosourea (MNU)-induced mammary tumor model in rats. Our studies were performed to examine this question. Ninety-six, 4-week-old female Sprague-Dawley rats were randomly divided into five groups. The animals of groups 1, 2 and 3 received an intraperitoneal injection of MNU at the age of 50 days. The animals of groups 4 and 5 were injected with saline only at the same time. Animals of groups 1 and 2 were given diet containing 100 ppm and 300 ppm I3C from week 1 until week 25 after MNU treatment. The animals of group 4 were given basal diet containing 300 ppm I3C without MNU treatment. All animals were killed at week 25. The incidences of mammary tumors in the groups 1, 2 and 3 were 95.8% (23/24), 83.3% (20/24) and 82.4% (28/34), respectively. The average number of tumors in the tumor bearing rats of the MNU and I3C 300 ppm group (group 2; 3.85+/-0.63) was higher than that in the MNU alone group (group 3; 2.46+/-0.31). These results represented that exposure to I3C after carcinogen treatment did not suppress development of mammary tumors.
Apr 5, 2018 09:55PM Husband11 wrote:
I notice that Memorial Sloan Kettering's "About Herbs" has a write up on broccoli sprouts, and has nothing but good to say. No mention of drug interactions or Cytochrome enzyme inhibition. Maybe an oversight, as they are a potent source of sulforaphane, which the same site writes up as having drug interactions. Who knows?