Topic: Rant away about COVID, the vaccine, etc.

Forum: All things COVID-19 or coronavirus — A place to discuss the impact of COVID-19 (Coronavirus) on you and the ones you love.

Posted on: Aug 27, 2021 10:00PM - edited Sep 3, 2021 07:56PM by kbl

Posted on: Aug 27, 2021 10:00PM - edited Sep 3, 2021 07:56PM by kbl

kbl wrote:

Covid discussion.

De Novo ILC - No primary found. Mets to full spine, femurs, skull, and stomach. Dx 5/1/2019, ILC, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 6/24/2019 Femara (letrozole) Targeted Therapy 6/24/2019 Ibrance (palbociclib) Chemotherapy 9/27/2021 Other

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Aug 30, 2021 10:20AM - edited Aug 30, 2021 10:21AM by kbl

I have asked that the mods unhide it. Let's hope they do. I think we can all agree that we want it to stay. It's specific to the issue and not in another thread mixed in with other topics. If it does get taken down or continues to be hidden, I will apologize before it does. I do not want that to happen.

De Novo ILC - No primary found. Mets to full spine, femurs, skull, and stomach. Dx 5/1/2019, ILC, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 6/24/2019 Femara (letrozole) Targeted Therapy 6/24/2019 Ibrance (palbociclib) Chemotherapy 9/27/2021 Other

Aug 30, 2021 10:30AM kbl wrote:

Thank you, JO-5. I’m sure some felt I was not being kind as well. I will own responsibility for that. I want this page to exist. Maybe if we get back to the basics of it being a rant page, they will unhide it. I did have honest questions. It doesn’t mean I didn’t listen but still have the same mindset, but I wanted to hear the answers.

How do we get it to be a rant page without it overtaking the forum? Any suggestions other than hiding the page?

De Novo ILC - No primary found. Mets to full spine, femurs, skull, and stomach. Dx 5/1/2019, ILC, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 6/24/2019 Femara (letrozole) Targeted Therapy 6/24/2019 Ibrance (palbociclib) Chemotherapy 9/27/2021 Other

Aug 30, 2021 10:34AM mountainmia wrote:

Well. I guess I took the topic title too literally. "Rant away..." That sounds like it's inviting rants. So all of those who seem offended that there are rants here, maybe those people just shouldn't read it. And then there are people who are NOT ranting, who are trying to be logical and persuasive and thoughtful with their comments. And somehow, some people seem to be pissed with them, too.


Seriously? What do you want from people?

The rain comes and the rain goes, but the mountain remains. I am the mountain.

Aug 30, 2021 10:36AM serenitystat wrote:

People who don't want to see it under Active Topics can just block it from their personal view. I've done that for many topics that don't interest me.


BCO leaked our private data. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ . . . . . "Do not overlook the little joys!" (Hesse, 1905) 🐶Dx.11/2015.IDC.L.IIIC.10/11nodes.++- ☕️12/2015.L.Mast 🛀2/2016.4AC.12Taxol.fasted 🖼9/2016.Rads.Nodes.ChestWall.15+4boosts 🥐10/2016.Tamox(2.5y) 🌲4/2019.Exemestane 🎭12/2019.Ibrance/Xgeva 🕊

Aug 30, 2021 10:53AM - edited Aug 30, 2021 11:01AM by kbl

MountainMia, I totally agree with both you and SerenityStat. I invite anyone to comment. It's open to all. Those who don't want to see it can certainly not click on it.

I want to make it clear that the only reason I wanted it to have its own space was for the reason it is such a hot topic, that it had its own space for the one topic and not mixed in with other topics.

We are all human and can get hurt by things said. It's human nature. I think we are all adult enough to be able to place our position. Periodically, it's going to become heated. I don't know who would think it wouldn't. What I was trying to do is let it be heated but not at one person in particular so that it starts to become personal. I'm sure that's not going to happen either, but I can hope. I am not singling out anyone with that comment on either side of the debate.

Rant away, be mad at me, I get it. I know I'm not the only one that people are mad at, it's the unvaccinated in general, but when a lot of the comments are directed to me, it does get a little personal feeling. If I've done that, I'm sorry. That was not my intent.

From here on, I will try my damndest not to seem like I'm making it personal. I truly do care about everyone here, and my intentions were good.

I want to know how others are feeling. There are so many around the world with the same feelings. I hope you feel the same about my opinions and want to hear them, even if you don't agree.

I have chosen some words that have upset. I don't know how to get around it.

Some may feel I'm being disingenuous. I'm not. I never wanted to put a stop to people saying how they feel.

If you read my post in the other thread, I was feeling like people only wanted to be able to discuss the vaccinated side of things. I came in there and had a good rant and felt better for letting out how I was feeling. I’m sure what I was feeling was misguided in my own mind, so I’m glad I let it out and started the conversation.

De Novo ILC - No primary found. Mets to full spine, femurs, skull, and stomach. Dx 5/1/2019, ILC, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 6/24/2019 Femara (letrozole) Targeted Therapy 6/24/2019 Ibrance (palbociclib) Chemotherapy 9/27/2021 Other

Aug 30, 2021 11:04AM - edited Aug 30, 2021 04:49PM by beesie.is.out-of-office

runor, to your question, here is some information I found on excess mortality.

From the WHO:

"Excess mortality is defined as the difference in the total number of deaths in a crisis compared to those expected under normal conditions. COVID-19 excess mortality accounts for both the total number of deaths directly attributed to the virus as well as the indirect impact, such as disruption to essential health services or travel disruptions."

Most interestingly, the WHO have found that excess mortality in 2020 was significantly higher than the number of cases of Covid deaths. This most likely reflects the lack of medical care for those who died of other causes. I would expect that some of this is self-imposed; I recall reading reports last year indicating that a significant number of people were reluctant to go the hospital when they fell ill, resulting in unnecessary deaths for treatable conditions (heart attacks, strokes, etc.). But I'm sure there are also cases where people have died because they have been unable to get the medical care that they needed, despite trying. And I have no doubt that there will be more excess deaths in the future, for example people who were diagnosed with cancer months later than they otherwise would have been, due to delays in screenings and biopsies and operations.

Note that the WHO state that their information is incomplete, both due a lag factor in reporting and the fact that many underdeveloped countries simply have poor reporting systems.



The above is for 2020; the following is more recent information from a different source, "Our World in Data" from the University of Oxford. To make the graph legible, I've chosen to just include the U.S. and Canada.

This graph shows that during peak periods of the Covid pandemic, weekly mortality rates were as much as 45% - 50% higher in the U.S. than would be expected, and 20%-30% higher in Canada. Here again, it's stated that the figures may be inaccurate during to incomplete reporting and delays in reporting, so we can expect that the actual excess mortality will in the end be somewhat higher than what's shown here. And here again, this doesn't account for people who will unnecessarily die in the future due to delays in diagnosis and treatment during the pandemic period.

Unfortunately this source does not provide a global number, nor do they provide a cumulative number. Eyeballing the chart, it would appear that for the U.S., the average % increase in deaths for 2020 is about 30%.

What to me is most significant in this chart is to see how excess mortality has dropped in 2021, as vaccinations have become widely available in Canada and the U.S..

Aug 30, 2021 11:10AM beesie.is.out-of-office wrote:

Echoing serenitySTAT's question, WHY IS THIS THREAD HIDDEN?

This is a very important topic, and is especially important for cancer patients. Yes, the discussion has gotten a bit heated a times, but the posters have done a good job of bringing the discussion back in line, keeping it respectful.

By hiding this thread, it limits the posts to only those who already know about the thread and have already been participating. No new readers will ever see the thread, even if they are interested.

We're adults here, aren't we? Why are we being treated like children?

Aug 30, 2021 11:14AM exbrnxgrl wrote:

beesie,

Thank you for those clear graphic illustrations. I know some on here did not want info from WHO or the CDC for that matter but I believe they are reliable sources. Are they perfect 100% of the time? Of course not but I hope that as adults we understand that nothing is

Dx IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Aug 30, 2021 11:14AM - edited Aug 30, 2021 11:15AM by kbl

Thank you, Beesie! I haven't heard back yet.

I am going to really look at your charts later today. I have an appointment coming up and will be gone for a little while.

De Novo ILC - No primary found. Mets to full spine, femurs, skull, and stomach. Dx 5/1/2019, ILC, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 6/24/2019 Femara (letrozole) Targeted Therapy 6/24/2019 Ibrance (palbociclib) Chemotherapy 9/27/2021 Other

Aug 30, 2021 11:16AM exbrnxgrl wrote:

Hey, we’re back on active topics! Thank you KBL for your efforts.

Dx IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, ER+/PR+, HER2-

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