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Topic: New type of LE Garment

Forum: Lymphedema — Risks, tips for prevention, and info about products that can address the symptoms of lymphedema.

Posted on: Jan 29, 2011 06:57AM

Journey wrote:

I was recently given a flyer on a new garment and wanted to share. It is a sleeve that continues up and over the shoulders down to the other arm. There seems to be a choice of two full sleeves or one full and then a short sleeve just to balance the garment. Also, looks like the prices are not too bad. Web site is. www.lymphedemasleeveco.com

Hope this helps someone! I'm still searching for the perfect garment myself as this one would cut me right were my back LE exists. Think I will contact this company and ask if they will make a combo sleeve like this that covers the shoulder blade area too.

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Jan 29, 2011 08:49AM kira wrote:

Journey, because I attended the NLN, they just sent me a brochure and fabric samples. I do know that one of the researchers who attended the NLN tried the sleeve and loved it.

It's a great idea to go over the back and end in a short sleeve on the opposite side.

They are based in West Hartford CT, but the fabric/sleeves are from Italy.

The prices were in the 98$ range that they sent in the brochure.

Let us know if they modify the garment for you.

Kira

Knowledge is the antidote to fear, Ralph Waldo Emerson Dx 5/10/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage IB, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jan 29, 2011 10:19AM - edited Jan 29, 2011 10:25AM by KS1

This looks very interesting!  From the pictures, the bilateral sleeve seems to cover quite a bit more of the back than the unilateral sleeve, which sounds like it would be great for a lot of folks.   

But, I infer that both arms on the bilateral have compression.  Given that the compression is light, would be ill-advised for people with unilateral LE to wear compression on both sides?  If one did wear light compression on a nonLE arm, would hand protection be necessary?  I wonder if the material would unravel if one cut off one of the arms.

Perhaps making a unilateral with back coverage would mean that the unilateral sleeve wasn't ambidextrous, and the company doesn't want to have to make two versions.  Maybe if a bunch of us asked, the company would make a unilateral sleeve with back coverage. (Or a sleeve with two long arms, only one of which has compression - I would love to have matching arms in the winter months.)

Laura, do let us know what the company says.  And, if anyone has one, I would love to hear your report.  - KS1

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Jan 29, 2011 11:37AM SleeveNinja wrote:

I've been wearing these sleeves since I discovered them 9 months ago. I LOVE them. The single arm (one long (therapeutic) sleeve and one short (anchor) sleeve) and the bilateral (two long sleeves) sleeves are entirely different. The single-arm is meant for LE. The bilateral sleeve is not technically a LE compression garment - it has less compression than the single-arm and a heavily textured knit.  I love wearing it but it's not enough support for me to wear all the time.  I like that there is no band at the upper arm to hold these up.  They stay up like a sweater or a shrug does.  The back band does not provide any compression or support at all -- you don't even feel it (I wouldn't have thought that from the picture).  I have swelling in my arm, axilla, and all around my axilla (upper chest, side, back of shoulder blade) and it doesn't cut into me at all. 

I don't think they will make any changes for a while - I've been begging them to make a tee-shirt or cami!!!  It would be awesome for truncal LE.  Awesome fabric. Smile  And did I mention elegant . . .  Cool  

PS, KS -  all the sleeves are "ambidextrous"    You can cut the fabric (I have) - the edge will roll up but it won't unravel.  The bilateral sleeve has kind of a long cuff and is a bit loose above the cuff - this might be an issue for anyone with swelling in that area.  It's not an issue w the one-arm sleeve.

I'd be glad to say more here or via PM.

Sleeveninja 

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Jan 29, 2011 01:25PM Binney4 wrote:

Oh, say more HERE, Ninja -- we all want to know about it!

Thanks,Kiss
Binney

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Jan 29, 2011 01:46PM lisa-e wrote:

I have three of these sleeves (I liked them so much that I ordered two more after I got one through my insurance).  They are very elegant, non medical looking and very comfortable.  As my arms are cone shaped (upper arms larger than my forearms, I tend to have problems with sleeves slipping down.  These (soledia slimming sleeves) don't.  Sleeveninja mentioned that they are heavily textured.  When I take the sleeve off,  i have a chevron pattern on my arms.  Per their literature and my le therapist that is a sign the sleeve is working to promote lymph flow. The design seems to encourage the lymph to move to the para-spinal nodes I know the pattern is more pronounced on the days when it feels like my le is flaring a bit.   

Sleeveninja also mentioned that the bilateral sleeve is not technically A LE compression garment.  That is correct, but it is an active garment - promoting lymph flow.  

I wear them when climbing and exercising.  I like them a lot more than the juzzo sleeves I used to wear. 

Initial BC dx with dcis & idc after lumpectomy & snb in 6/08. in 8/08 dx with multicentric bc (idc) after mri. had bilat mastecomy in 9/08 w/o reconstruction Dx 5/2008, DCIS, 2cm, Stage 0, Grade 3 Dx 6/2008, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/19 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Left, Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Right; Prophylactic mastectomy: Left
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Jan 29, 2011 03:20PM Journey wrote:

This is encouraging news! Thank y'all for sharing. I have emailed the company asking about their return policy (if any?). I can't seem to find any mention of this on their site.

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Jan 29, 2011 03:53PM Nordy wrote:

Hi Journey! It is interesting that you post this - I just ordered the bilateral sleeve a couple days ago. Still waiting for delivery... I think it said the 1rst? Anyway, I ordered the bilateral specifically because I actually do better with less compression and looking for something to wear while cycling that does not have a band at the top. I don't know if the 15mmhg compression will be enough while in the dependent cycling position, but if not, I will try other one to provide a little more compression. I have heard good things about these sleeves and am really excited to try them. Heavens... I will try anything... Wink   
Do or do not. There is no try. (Yoda!) 2 large positive nodes before neoadjuvant chemo - all nodes negative after chemo Dx 4/21/2005, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/12 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Jan 29, 2011 04:06PM cookiegal wrote:

cool!!!!!!!! Thanks for posting this. I think I saw these at last years YSC convention and they were selling like hotcakes!!

You deserve a cookie!
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Jan 29, 2011 04:34PM - edited Jan 29, 2011 04:43PM by kira

What's interesting to me,

http://www.store.lymphedemasleeveco.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=93

is that the 23/33 arn sleeve is compression class 2, while the 15/21 is a European compression class 1.

So, they seem to offer a unilateral sleeve in a compression class 2, and a bilateral in a compression class1--but don't consider compression class one therapeutic, yet it's the most commonly used compression class.

It would be nice if they offered both versions in both compression classes.

 They sent me fabric samples, and a brochure.

Nordy--MOTC uses a 15-20 mm Jobst sleeve with a higher compression glove and that combo works well for her. Less is quite often more.

Kira

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/proper_fitting_of_lymphedema_garments.htm#Millimeters_of_mercury_and_compression_class

"Millimeters of mercury" and "compression class"

Unfortunately, size is not the only consideration in fitting a lymphedema garment. The amount of compression your garment applies will vary according to your specific needs and the stage of your lymphedema. This compression level is measured in units called "millimeters of mercury." It's written in scientific shorthand like this: mm/Hg. (The "mm" stands for millimeters, and the "Hg" is the chemical symbol for mercury.) Compression garments are ordered by "compression class," or the range of compression you need, stated in millimeters of mercury.

Here's a run-down of compression classes recognized in the United States, along with their usual uses (which may vary with individual circumstances):

*

Class 0: 15-20 mm/Hg - used for those at risk for lymphedema
*

Class I: 20-30 mm/Hg - used for those at risk, or for early or mild lymphedema
*

Class II: 30-40 mm/Hg - used for moderate or severe lymphedema
*

Class III: 40-50 mm/Hg - used for severe or hard-to-control lymphedema

To add to the confusion, European compression classes differ slightly from their US counterparts, like so:

*

Class I: 18-21 mm/Hg
*

Class II: 23-32 mm/Hg
*

Class III: 34-46 mm/Hg

Knowledge is the antidote to fear, Ralph Waldo Emerson Dx 5/10/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage IB, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jan 29, 2011 05:13PM SleeveNinja wrote:

The bilateral sleeve is called the "Wave" - it's meant to be a "toner." The "Armcare" has one long sleeve and one short sleeve and is meant for LE.  I think both sleeves are beautifully made and truly elegant. They fit similarly but they are quite different and they feel quite different.

The Wave: The texture is supposed to provide some kind of massage action and it leaves an imprint in your skin when you take it off.  It must do something because my LE arm feels comfortable despite less compression than I usually need -- but I can't say it has "slimmed" or "toned" my normal arm one iota. 

The Armcare is more like a traditional LE sleeve except the fabric is far, far nicer than any other sleeve I have tried.  It is circular knit but woven a little differently than other sleeves (including a variation at the inner elbow that is just plain genius).  They last a long time too. I'm still on my first two -- they got pilly after about 6 months, but the compression is still fine. (The Wave stretches out after less wear - maybe due to the texture?.) 

If you need compression for both arms (Binney!), and the Wave is not enough compression (or not the right kind of compression), I could imagine it would be very simple to cut 2 Armcares in half (at center of back) and sew the 2 long sleeve together (at center of back).  

I can't say enough wonderful things about these sleeves.  They saved my sanity (what there is left of it.)  I'm holding back beacuse I'll sound like an ad if I say everything -- and also because everyone is different.   

I believe TLSCo.does let you return.       

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Jan 29, 2011 06:56PM BoobsinaBox wrote:

I've been trying to figure out how to put the two sleeve version on.  Getting one sleeve up one arm is hard enough, then pulling on the other one.  With a back (unless it is very stretchy) I can't imagine getting the second arm in.  Does this make sense?  What am I missing?  I thought it would be perfect for me, but I do need bilateral compression and can't figure this out.

Dawn 

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Jan 29, 2011 07:45PM mrsnjband wrote:

I was just thinking about a garment like this, to thinks someone else beat me to it!!!

Norma June, Bi-lateral MX 2008, Bi-lateral DIEP 2011 Dx 1/10/2008, IBC, <1cm, Stage IIIB, ER-/PR-, HER2- Chemotherapy 1/25/2008 AC Chemotherapy 3/10/2008 Taxol (paclitaxel) Chemotherapy 5/29/2008 Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 7/10/2008 Lymph node removal: Right; Mastectomy: Right; Prophylactic mastectomy: Left Radiation Therapy 8/11/2008 Surgery 8/15/2011 Reconstruction (right): DIEP flap Surgery 8/15/2011 Reconstruction (left): DIEP flap Surgery 12/12/2011 Reconstruction (left)
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Jan 29, 2011 08:30PM lisa-e wrote:

Dawn, the bilateral sleeves are not that hard to put on.  They come with instructions, but basically you put the arms on with the part that goes around your back in front of you, then when you are ready you flip the back part over your head.  A bit of adjustment and you are ready to go.

Initial BC dx with dcis & idc after lumpectomy & snb in 6/08. in 8/08 dx with multicentric bc (idc) after mri. had bilat mastecomy in 9/08 w/o reconstruction Dx 5/2008, DCIS, 2cm, Stage 0, Grade 3 Dx 6/2008, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/19 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Left, Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Right; Prophylactic mastectomy: Left
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Jan 29, 2011 09:35PM SleeveNinja wrote:

Dawn - super easy on and off.  The back is very stretchy.  I put it on just like a cardigan.  I prefer that to the flip over method.  The single arm takes a bit more attention just because you want to "line up" the long sleeve properly (think pantyhose.)

Kira - I wrote a long reply about compression and accidentally deleted it.  Here is how the compression FEELS to me: The Armcare feels somewhere between a "usual" (Juzo/Jobst/Medi/Sigvaris) class 1 and 2.  The Wave feels like a class 1 or less (it stretches out a bit).  

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Jan 29, 2011 10:10PM Member_of_the_Club wrote:

I wasn't able to pull up the link.  I'm always interested in finding garments with the lighter compression levels.  I seem to be the only person here who wears the lighter sleeve (I do wear the heavy glove since thats where my LE is) and oddly these are more difficult to find.

Dx 9/30/2004, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 2, 1/17 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jan 30, 2011 04:11PM cookiegal wrote:

For what it's worth...I used a cut up truncal wave in my bra for my breast LE it works really really well.

I even tried have a tailor make one into a bra but it was hard to achive a design that did not cut into my nodes. For someone skinnier it might be fine.

You deserve a cookie!
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Jan 30, 2011 06:35PM - edited Jan 30, 2011 06:38PM by SleeveNinja

cookie - i'd kill for a tee in that fabric . . .  and happy birthday party!  -and good luck tomorrow.

motc - jobst makes a class 0 (15-20 mm Hg) sleeve.  there are also lots of "sports" compression sleeves around these days.

binney -  do you wear 2 single gottfried sleeves or a double arm bolero?  i was looking at their product list and I wonder if the single or double arm bolero provide any trunk compression.  the single arm might not, but the double arm might?  i'm thinking the double arm with a round neck (not the v neck pictured) and a short sleeve (or sleeveless) for an unaffected arm.  i may call them and ask about this. 

 

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Jan 30, 2011 08:27PM BoobsinaBox wrote:

Thanks for the info on getting into the double sleeve!  That's a really interesting concept.

Dawn 

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Jan 30, 2011 09:00PM ItsCeToday wrote:

I have one of these - they are called Soleida's and it has a bolera type style to it.  I think it works ok, but then, this is my first set of compression sleeves.  I had bi-lateral mastectomy in Apr 10 and so I need both full sleeves. 

Diag IBC Oct 09, Her2+, Estr/Prog- Approaching my 1 year birthday!!!
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Jan 31, 2011 10:51AM Journey wrote:

So if I just want light compression and go with the dual arm should I plan on wearing gauntlets as well?  I really hate wearing them as they get in my way!  Of course I hate sleeves too!

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Jan 31, 2011 11:07AM o2bhealthy wrote:

I have the dual arm sleeve and really like the way it makes my arms feel - the light compression is just right and my upper arm/axillary does not ache or feel cut into like the Juzo/Jobst sleeves can make me feel on my 'flare' days!  I also love the fact that I never feel like I need to pull up my sleeve halfway through the day. Wouldn't it be nice if the made gloves too :)

Michelle ~ DCIS and IDC - Thyroid Cancer dx 10-27-10, partial thyroidectomy 11-23-10 Dx 5/15/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 6/22/2009 Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Targeted Therapy 7/18/2009 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Chemotherapy 7/18/2009 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 11/11/2009 Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Hormonal Therapy 11/30/2009
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Jan 31, 2011 11:14AM kira wrote:

Journey, when in doubt, refer to the Andrea Cheville article on use of gauntlet with an arm sleeve--she feels it's essential if women are at risk and if women already have lymphedema they can watch closely to see if the sleeve pushes the fluid into the hand:

lymphedivas.com/lymphedema/gau...

Kira

Knowledge is the antidote to fear, Ralph Waldo Emerson Dx 5/10/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage IB, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jan 31, 2011 12:03PM o2bhealthy wrote:

Has anyone tried the silver wave abdominal band for their trunc?? The website state that it can be used for breast and trunc... I have used the expand a band binder, Wearease and Balise, I have other tube like tops but they cut too deep around the top of the breast and axillary. 

Michelle ~ DCIS and IDC - Thyroid Cancer dx 10-27-10, partial thyroidectomy 11-23-10 Dx 5/15/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 6/22/2009 Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Targeted Therapy 7/18/2009 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Chemotherapy 7/18/2009 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 11/11/2009 Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Hormonal Therapy 11/30/2009
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Jan 31, 2011 01:16PM hymil wrote:

The solidea sleeve is available in the UK from : http://www.ten-point.co.uk/shop/product.php?xProd=534 or from www.SolideaEsther.co.uk Second source has wider choice of colours but costs a lot more than Ten-point.

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Feb 1, 2011 11:19AM - edited Feb 1, 2011 11:26AM by kira

So I went through the packet and the fabric samples, and there are now TWO different single sleeves, and they say the one on the web site  (CCL2) is new, but there are two single sleeves:

15/21 Arm care CCL 1   Dorsal Support Sleeve Item # 0432A8-----$98.85

This is European compression class 1--you'll find it in Juzo gloves--I don't completely understand--Binney help!--but it is supposedly equivalent to US CCL 1 which is 20-30mm

23/32 Arm Care CCL2 Dorsal Support Sleeve Item #0444B8----$106.06

And the double sleeves, in that wave fabric,

15/21 Silver Wave Slimming Sleeves-Bilateral Arm Sleeve--Item# 0433A5---$98.85

And they list two colors for the single sleeves--beige and mocha and multiple colors for the double sleeve.

So, I'd recommend calling them:

888-841-8834

Kira (having yet another unexpected snow day...)

They address the compression class european vs us on their site:

www.lymphedemasleeveco.com/lym...

Knowledge is the antidote to fear, Ralph Waldo Emerson Dx 5/10/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage IB, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 1, 2011 12:52PM Binney4 wrote:

Oh, goodness! Don't you wish we could get together across the pond and all agree on the same standards?!Surprised But no.

So the US class 1 is a European class 2. And the European class 1 is a US class 0. Only some of the European manufacturers seem to class them to US standards when they market them here, so it's probably a better idea to go by the numbers instead of the class. If you're using a 20-30 sleeve and it's working for you, that's a class 2 from this company.

My personal dilemma is that the usual 20-30 is a bit much for me -- less is more for my LE -- I order custom garments for that reason. So I'm wondering if the bilateral sleeve would actually work for me, but it's an expensive experiment. Anybody know what their return policy is?

Guess LE wasn't complicated enough -- they had to add this sizing challenge to the mix just to keep us all on our toes.Undecided

Be well!
Binney

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Feb 1, 2011 12:56PM Nordy wrote:

Binney - less is more for me too! And I ordered the bilateral sleeve. I do not have it yet... I am thinking it is supposed to come today. I will let you know how well it works after I use it!

Do or do not. There is no try. (Yoda!) 2 large positive nodes before neoadjuvant chemo - all nodes negative after chemo Dx 4/21/2005, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/12 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Feb 1, 2011 01:04PM Journey wrote:

Are you still talking about the bilateral sleeve from lymphedemasleeveco?  If so Sue Callison responded to my question about their return policy with this - "We have a 30 day no questions asked exchange or return policy. As a breast cancer survivor affected with lymphedema, it is my goal to help people find the best solutions for their condition."

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Feb 1, 2011 01:05PM Journey wrote:

I ordered both styles this morning!Smile
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Feb 1, 2011 01:06PM cookiegal wrote:

Very good info...thanks all!

I would not put the wave tummy band right on my breasts, because of the binding edge.

I had to cut it apart, but it works!

You deserve a cookie!

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