Oh, no! I hope the edema in your legs isn't permanent. Have you tried putting your legs up against the wall?

I've had the first dose of Moderna in my thigh. I did get swelling and redness at the injection site, but it's mostly gone. I have mild LE in my left arm. I use my right arm for blood draws and Xgeva shots. I already had a rash when I got the shot, but it spread and is still a little itchy. I've reported my reaction, but I'm not certain about dose 2. I will get it, but I want to talk to my MO next week. I need to time the dose during my off week of Ibrance. Vaccine protocol doesn't call for a different vaccine or skipping dose 2.

I'm prone to rashes, but Moderna is what my specialty pharmacy had. I may get the shot in my other thigh during my off week and take Benadryl as a pre-med like when I had Taxol. I'll also avoid gluten since that seems to trigger rashes for me.

I agree that I would rather get Pfizer.

Does MLD make any difference even short term?

I have a sleeve from this company that broke up fibrotic tissue from cellulitis. It's like getting a massage every time you move.

https://mobiderm.com.au/collections/mobiderm-autofit-garment/night-time

Think I'll email my LE therapist for her thoughts on my next shot.

Hi Purple Flower,

I hope you are doing better. My situation is a bit different, I started having lymphedema in my torso and left arm last winter. I've had lymphedema in my right arm since my bilateral mastectomy. I was able to get Pfizer vaccine after I started getting my lymphedema under control again. Maybe the information below will you.

I found a some helpful YouTube videos created by Lymphatic Education and Research Network (LEARN). I have had to change my diet significantly to reduce overall inflammation which in my case made my lymphedema worse. Our food supply has been changed by commercialization to the point that some foods, we think of as antiinflammatory may be inflammatory if we are not careful. There is a video that explains. Also if you can, talk to your lymphedema therapist about a lymphatic pump like the Flexitouch Plus or a Jovipak night time garment. These have helped me get my lymphedema back under control.

I never wanted a pump and rejected it when I went back a lymphedema therapist. Then I saw a video explaining how CDT treatment is based on the European health care system and how it differs from US health care system. Then I paid attention to how my appointments went from 1 hour a few years ago to 45 mins a sometime before pandemic. During a 45 minute appointment, I was only getting about 15 to 20 minutes of massage and seeing no improvement. All this to say, I had to reevaluate how I was going to deal with this chronic condition the rest of my life and modify my behavior by being more diligent.

All this makes life challenging, but there are still rewards in life. Good luck.

Purple32. I really do feel for you. I hope you can start seeing some reduction in lymphedema due to Moderna vaccine. Can your oncologist request imagining study to see if the lymphatic system shows damage? Also if your lymphedema is like mine, pain increases with volume. Make sure to talk to your doctor about everything.

Take care of yourself, and ask for help. It took me months to get it back under some level of control.

PS- don't worry about whinning now and again. We are human after all. Good luck.

---

Purple32,

My doctor was looking for damage to lymphnodes. We didn't find any so we never went to the next step. But I believe she would have referred me to a surgeon that does microsurgery to reroute lymph vessels. There may be more about it under lymphedema. My mother sent me an article about it in a Mayo clinic newsletter years ago. I'm in the Seattle area and there's a surgeon here. I expect most large cancer hospitals may have a surgeon performing this procedure.

All that may not be helpful. In my case I accidentally noticed my stomach appeared swollen and a good friend reminded about my food sensitivities. I put 2 and 2 together. Removed wheat, nuts and corn from my diet. It still took 4 to 6 weeks to get my overall inflammation down and then I started seeing improvements in my lymphedema, with the help of the lymphedema therapist, pump and other lymphedema gear. It is a struggle and I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. Please make sure you take care of yourself physically and emotionally. I know I struggled when mine spread.

Hi Farmlovergrl,

I had 11 nodes removed last month during my SNLB with lumpectomy. I do not have lymphedema, but I do know that is a risk.

You are absolutely right that you need robust protection from Covid. As cancer patients, we learn quickly that we have struggling immune systems that begin to struggle even further during treatment.

My oncologists aren't letting me do anything experimental. I am thankful for their combined wisdom. Truly, the last thing I would do during cancer is to sign myself up for an experimental therapy not even out of Phase 2 trials yet without any long term safety studies and thousands of reported deaths and injuries, according to VAERS. I would not touch experimental injections with a 10 foot pole.

Instead, I have been fully protected this past year with zero concerns about any variant, thanks to the Frontline Covid Critical Care Doctors (FLCCC.net) and their very specific published protocols for Covid prophylaxis and treatment with astonishingly effective early treatment (iMask and iMath). Their protocol includes medications long proven safe and effective: IVM, Vitamin D, C, Zinc and Melatonin. Their patients, when treated early, do not have any problems from exposure to the virus. I take 12mg of IVM every week per my doctor's prescription. It's interesting that several of these medications are already helpful for certain cancer patients, so the unusual timing has been a double blessing for me. Here is the website: https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols...

If you're interested, the FLCCC has a weekly Wednesday Q&A webinar with their international teams of doctors answering questions about the protocol and how amazingly successful it has been to protect us from Covid. Their website is FLCCC.net.

REUTERS article below.

Blessings,

Esther

Cancer Survivors Network

CSN

cancer.org

Solid tumors, mRNA, and two of the COVID vaccines

Tamlen Posts: 304 Joined: Jan 2018

Dec 10, 2020 - 11:53 am Reuters published this today: mRNA Vaccines May Need More Study for Treating Some Cancer Patients COVID-19 vaccines that employ new messenger RNA (mRNA) technology to fend off the illness may require further testing before it becomes clear they are safe for cancer patients with solid tumors, cancer treatment experts say. That would include the vaccines from Pfizer Inc with partner BioNTech SE and from Moderna Inc. The vaccines work by carrying genetic instructions for making a protein from the virus that the immune system learns to recognize and defend against. The mRNA is encased in a microscopic "packet" called a lipid nanoparticle (LNP), or liposome, that protects and delivers the fragile molecule into cells. While this technique is new for vaccines, it has long been used to carry cancer drugs into tumors, because tumors easily take up liposomes. This raises the possibility that tumor tissues would capture some of the liposomes carrying the vaccine's mRNA, said Gerard Milano of Nice University in France. The potential for part of the vaccine to become stuck in tumors and the resulting effect on cancer patients "is an open question to which there is currently no answer," Milano said. In a paper published on Wednesday in the British Journal of Cancer, his team calls for "a careful evaluation of the efficacy of these promising mRNA COVID-19 vaccines administered as lipid carriers for patients with solid tumors, including a possible re-appraisal of the dosing for optimal protection of this specific and frail population."

I would choose Pfizer as well. My physician-mother chose Moderna over Pfizer. Best is whatever you can get first. My cancer centre is at a research hospital and offered the mRNA vaccine to their patients.

I do take vitamin D and melatonin. I read about ivermectin. There's no clinical evidence it works for COVID. A paper on it was retracted recently for bad data/methodology.

Hi Farmgrl,

I agree with Serenity about seeing a preprint study retracted by some doctor in Egypt. I was referring to over 60 studies demonstrating the efficacy of IVM for SarsCov2. Here they are: https://ivmmeta.com/. FLCCC frontline doctors are the ones treating Covid patients for the past year. They know what works and what doesn't. They are not anti-vaccine, just early prevention with what works.

As for your lymphedema, I remember a thread here discussing side effects from the injections, but cannot recall if any were lymphedema-related. As a kind poster mentioned earlier, please don't let lymphedema concerns stop you and your loved ones from being protected. Whether you choose to get the injections or to prophylact weekly with ivermectin as prescribed by your doctor, I would move forward as soon as possible so you will be protected as soon as possible. Once you have that behind you, you will be able to breathe deeply and heal. Your farm sounds lovely!

Blessings,

Esther

Ivermectin for COVID-19: real-time meta analysis of 60 studies

•Meta analysis using the most serious outcome reported shows 74% and 85% improvement for early treatment and prophylaxis (RR 0.26 [0.16-0.43] and 0.15 [0.08-0.25]), with similar results after exclusion based sensitivity analysis, restriction to peer-reviewed studies, and restriction to Randomized Controlled Trials.

•64% and 96% lower mortality is observed for early treatment and prophylaxis (RR 0.36 [0.15-0.85] and 0.04 [0.00-0.59]). Statistically significant improvements are seen for mortality, hospitalization, cases, and viral clearance. 26 studies show statistically significant improvements in isolation.

	Studies	Prophylaxis	Early treatment	Late treatment	Patients	Authors
All studies	60	85% [75‑92%]	74% [57‑84%]	43% [26‑56%]	21,838	574
With exclusions	50	88% [75‑94%]	76% [66‑83%]	50% [28‑65%]	17,437	513
Peer-reviewed	39	88% [70‑95%]	75% [59‑84%]	43% [21‑59%]	11,593	408
Randomized Controlled Trials	30	84% [25‑96%]	67% [54‑76%]	30% [2‑50%]	5,206	358
Mortality results	23	96% [41‑100%]	64% [15‑85%]	59% [35‑74%]	10,797	236
Percentage improvement with ivermectin treatment

Trishyla,

I had my first vaccine almost as soon as my county opened it up to teachers. The online appointment site was overwhelmed at the time. My colleagues and I were texting back and forth as we helped each other make appointments. When I finally got in, I felt as if I had won the lottery!

Not for me either, serenity! This is an opinion piece, but I have great respect for the author and his medical expertise. Again, science and scientific research are not perfect and not always right but, as far as Covid19 goes (and most research for that matter) vaccines are our best shot at ending this pandemic. Hydroxychloroquine has not proved useful, oleandrin from the highly, highly toxic oleander plant was thankfully given little credence and it seems that Ivermectin may go the same way.

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/06/28/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19/

betrayal,

Though I hate to take away hope, I must agree with you which is why I posted the link to respectful insolence. Orac does a good job of explaining why Ivermectin is not a legit COVID preventative. Please note that he is very opposed to much of what is considered alternative medicine, i.e. cures or treatments without solid scientific, data driven research. Although I would like to believe that there are easy, natural, no harm solutions to medical problems, I am too pragmatic and too much of an academic to accept poorly conducted “research” or personal anecdotes as evidence of efficacy.

exbrnxgrl: Agreed but there are others who posted supporting use of these drugs.

Whoever would choose dog heartworm medicine over a proven vaccine makes me wonder what their reasoning is. My dog does well on her ivermectin so it is appropriate there. Having had one dog who developed heartworm when my DFIL failed to give her her meds when they were daily (skipped 2 weeks while we were away), her subsequent treatment (arsenic which either killes them or cures them) cost me thousands but prolonged her life for 2 more years. I just don't get why someone would take risky OTC/prescription drugs when there is a vaccine. Getting it just when you are being admitted to ICU, being prepped for a ventilator or a lung transplant is just too darn late. My DB had Covid pre-vaccine, spent 2 months sleeping upright on his couch so he could breathe and reported that just taking a shower was exhausting. He did recover but it was a long haul and he said he would not wish this on his worst enemy. I am thankful he survived but he developed clots in his legs and lungs and is on an anticoagulant for life which means he can no longer take his meds for RA nor OTC pain meds.

The young man who received the double lung transplant now has a shorter life expectancy than his peers, will be on immunosuppressive drugs for the rest of his life which makes him susceptible to just about every possible infectious disease, these drugs increase his risk of developing cancer, he may not be able to receive some vaccines, etc. I do feel sorry for him though.

purple,

It was GG27 who received the two different vaccines. I just had two plain old Pfizer’s 😊