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Topic: No more Treatment? What if I let Nature take it's course?

Forum: Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care — A unique forum ONLY for those trying to live well and/or trying to die well.

Posted on: Dec 9, 2017 10:38AM

GraceDD wrote:

Hi to all of us,

In 2012, Cindy Rose started this a thread like this, may she rest in peace (2013). The topic thread seems to have "faded away"... But I remain curious and interested. Do others have thoughts about "What if I quit treatment, and let Nature take it's course"? I would love to hear about others' courage to face the inevitable. I'm bothered by drug company's draining our retirement savings to pay for medical care which cannot save us.

I too am not depressed. I spend all day on alternative medical protocols, like "Ground Hogs Day" movie, without spontaneous time for quality of life. Why?

May our every day be meaningful and filled with truth, love and light!

Below is what I posted to Cindy Rose, before being informed that she passed:

Jul 21, 2017 02:33PM GraceDD wrote:

Cindy, you're my hero and I'm right in your camp! Planning to do the same thing. Not enough time right now to elaborate, but I will later... As a meditator, I am "observing" the changing reality of this path, as my plan. Others I have known have used this technique for peaceful, happy, pain-free passings, smilingly... Such ancient wisdom, so well documented in many books. 25-years ago, I quit chemo half-way through (It was the thing killing me!) and I refused Radiation from the beginning. Yes, surgery twice. Just finishing 8-months of vegan juicing and enema therapy, a few months shy of "1-year Dx anniversary". Hoping I will stick with basically drug-free plan, as time unfolds. Last year, with bone-shatter, a pain med, Gabapentin, eased the pain, without numbing my mind, or being narcotic. I still have a nice supply, just incase. (PS, I'm not in hospice yet, but accept the inevitable trajectory, and am getting my ducks in a row, again..). Tons of love and cheering for you!

Cheering for all of us, Diane

Dx 1/1992, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, metastasized to bone/other, Grade 2, 2/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/30/2006 Mastectomy: Right Dx 8/2006, DCIS, Right, Stage 0, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 9/2016, Right, 1cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/8/2017 Femara (letrozole) Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Underarm/Axillary Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Chemotherapy CMF
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Dec 21, 2017 06:17AM SavedbyGrace1972 wrote:

I've thought about that although I'm in the beginning stages of this journey. But before I was ever diagnosed, I've always read stories of those fighting. They were so courageous and did everything they could to stay here with their families. They were not living trying to live if that makes any sense. Instead of making previous memories with their loved ones, some were paralyzed and stuck in bed with horrible bed wounds. I would never want that!!! Yes I would want to be comfortable but not completely miserable. I guess you have to ask what is the quality of life in those situations?


It's all a gamble I guess. But I completely agree with the cost of treatments. Right now I've paid $1000s out of pocket and haven't taken any medication or had any surgery. This is just money for mammograms and biopsies after insurance paid their portion. We all need to have these conversations with our families and if you're a believe of higher power, discuss it with him too.


Amen and good luck!

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Dec 26, 2017 06:19PM Bluebird-DE wrote:

Hello - I am pulling up threads on hospice and palliative care. Just now had a conversation with Hubby, I wanted to keep my investigation into hospice and nursing facility from him but decided I just cannot. He has to face this too.

I was told a month back that it is time to engage hospice though they may not be used in the next *few WEEKS*. Sobering.

So I am reading and choosing and making use of what energy and brain faculties I have now when not in terrible pain or on pain meds. Have to face the worst that could happen. And plan more for the way to live well and long as possible.

I am looking at allopathic choices / oncology as well as complementary and alternative choices.

That said, have been off Xeloda for a month, was on eight months and the new concologist I had one appt w said it had not been working at all. So that means I had not been on any therapy that worked since a few months end of 2016 when Ibrance helped. Radiation so I could breathe was in Spring 2017, otherwise I would not have chosen it at that time.

Both your words speak to me, your situations and that you, GraceDD, face possibly choking to death, I had / have the same. Blacked out several times a day before allowing radiation. The idea of just letting go and living hard and fast while we can, it is a phenomenal fantasy if all worked out so we could have great experiences. This is a choice I have always had too.

Added to my favourites so will watch and be back.

btw, I remember CindyRose and her thread.

"Every mistake I have made has proven to be invaluable information for someone. Namely, me." Me. Diane Dx 7/15/2011, IDC, Right, 2cm, Stage IV, metastasized to liver/lungs/other, Grade 3, 3/11 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 4/4/2017 Xeloda (capecitabine) Hormonal Therapy Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Faslodex (fulvestrant) Targeted Therapy Ibrance (palbociclib) Radiation Therapy External: Lymph nodes Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole) Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Left
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Mar 18, 2018 06:18PM AnnBailey wrote:

"As a meditator, I am "observing" the changing reality of this path, as my plan. Others I have known have used this technique for peaceful, happy, pain-free passings, smilingly... Such ancient wisdom, so well documented in many books."

You are talking about something here but I don't understand. What technique?

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Mar 18, 2018 07:07PM Moderators wrote:

AnnBailey, hello and welcome to Breastcancer.org. You may want to also send a private message to GraceDD in case she doesn't look at this thread.

Thinking of you,

The Mods

To send a Private Message to the Mods: community.breastcancer.org/mem...
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Apr 1, 2018 08:44PM GraceDD wrote:

Hi AnnBailey, (and kudos to Bluebird and Saved by Grace),

I learned to tame my monkey mind, to OBSERVE the "physical sensations" of what the mind was rambling or rolling in... Not react to it, crave or cling or evaluate as good or bad... Just observe the temporary nature... (As a "student", I've sat, and served, many courses, to learn and practice).

Some 200 Worldwide residential meditation center (www.kunja.dhamma.org) (www.dhamma.org) - all volunteer run and funded - teach Vipassana basics in a 10-day introductory course. Non denominational; no conversion! The words of Buddha joyously spoken with modern day speech, in most languages. 24/7 care, delicious vegetarian meals. Already paid for by former students, in hopes that others might also have the opportunity to learn.

"Art of Dying", a collection of essays (from www.pariyatti.com) interviews terminal meditators and their families - some who I knew.

Also, old book called "Life After Life" by Dr. Raymond Moody, summarizes peoples warm Near Death experiences. "It didn't hurt... safe, warm, loving..."

I will continue later, with my personal applications of this, relative to MBC, 4x flu this winter, headaches, and moving forward.

Just got a call from my cousin, at last starting to make plans for the final phase for my beautiful Aunt. (Phew!) And, I just updated and notarized my Will, and captured all of the details... so that I can relax and enjoy "the reality as it is".

Love to you all, cheering for you... - Diane


Dx 1/1992, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, metastasized to bone/other, Grade 2, 2/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/30/2006 Mastectomy: Right Dx 8/2006, DCIS, Right, Stage 0, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 9/2016, Right, 1cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/8/2017 Femara (letrozole) Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Underarm/Axillary Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Chemotherapy CMF
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Apr 28, 2018 12:22PM - edited Apr 28, 2018 12:23PM by bluepearl

Mindful meditation.....and a really good book..."Consciousness Beyond Life" by Pim Von Lommel. Also a book "Full Catastrophic Living" .


Dx 1/6/2011, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 2/12/2011 Lymph node removal: Left, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left Dx 2/2013, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 3/10/2013 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 3/18/2013
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May 18, 2018 12:45AM GraceDD wrote:

Terrific, bluepearl, thanks for the book titles!

Dx 1/1992, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, metastasized to bone/other, Grade 2, 2/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/30/2006 Mastectomy: Right Dx 8/2006, DCIS, Right, Stage 0, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 9/2016, Right, 1cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/8/2017 Femara (letrozole) Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Underarm/Axillary Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Chemotherapy CMF
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Jun 30, 2018 12:55PM GraceDD wrote:

Hi all, Thanks so much for musing with me on this thread.

The other primary motivation for me, "to take the natural path", is the financial one. If I add up the financial costs of ongoing treatment, even with insurance, plus home health care (- which quickly adds up to the cost of Independent Living sites! -), then for me, I'd rather use those assets to pay to live somewhere nice, where all of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc is done... and just speed through the demise. Why extend the torture and expenses of years of sick living?

So this is just me. I have profound gratitude and respect and honor for our many diverse lives, beliefs, loves, purposes and paths !

For now, I'm doing well, motivated by "3-1/2 more years until DH retires". I've researched and budgeted general assets for 3~5 years of Assisted Living and care, so that my DH and DD don't have to do it. I'm so inspired by Others here who live on 10~15 years post Dx!! And I'm compassionately loving and learning from those who share their pain and journey, Thank You, Honored Ones (Lita and so many others!).

I'd love to hear your thoughts, now and in the future. Love, Hugs and Peace to us All. -- Diane

Dx 1/1992, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, metastasized to bone/other, Grade 2, 2/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/30/2006 Mastectomy: Right Dx 8/2006, DCIS, Right, Stage 0, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 9/2016, Right, 1cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/8/2017 Femara (letrozole) Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Underarm/Axillary Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Chemotherapy CMF
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Sep 4, 2019 07:56PM GraceDD wrote:

Hi All, At last time for an update, and my confession! Disease progressed...

I told DH that I am truly ready to trust Nature, and let it take it's course. No more meds! My Marker jumped up. DH still has a few years til retirement, and I am committed to supporting him. So I acquiested to try Faslodex, until he qualifies for his pension. Then I get to quit meds! (We have just barely had our 5th Wedding Anniversary.)

After 3x Faslodex injections and 2x referrals to the Emergency Room, I quit! I felt like a Zombie; Upright, but no quality of life. Couldn't breathe! Heart palpitations! I read other's reports that they felt better after the 3rd month: 1 week of SE's plus 3 weeks feeling ok.

I see ONC on 11/11/19... So...Against my will, but with compromise, my plan is to move into Independent Living, start Faslodex again in November, and be supported by the Chefs, Fitness Instructors and Social Activities! They will LYFT me home to see DH whenever I want. He is not pleased about this. But "it's time"!

I'm so ready to sign a "DNH" (Do Not Hospitalize), but I realize that my DD is 2 states away, and we all need time to say good by, if my "Lungs can't breathe again, or my heart pulse goes up to 148 for an hour again"...

OK, DD is home now, Thanks for letting me rant, and I reserve the right to update this! Just had to confess that I'm still on medications... Love and Light to you All!

Dx 1/1992, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, metastasized to bone/other, Grade 2, 2/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/30/2006 Mastectomy: Right Dx 8/2006, DCIS, Right, Stage 0, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 9/2016, Right, 1cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/8/2017 Femara (letrozole) Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Underarm/Axillary Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Chemotherapy CMF
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Jun 20, 2020 01:29PM GraceDD wrote:

Hi All. FINAL POST: We have smile and laugh our way through this time period, with Joy, Love, Lightness, and lots of Life Is Good tee shirts! "BREATH, The Universe is taking care of every thing else." "Life is not easy. Life is not perfect. Life is Good." We've had "un-Birthdays celebrations, (mine is in August). DH suggested we "Renew Our Wedding Vows", which we did 2-months early (6th-Anniversary is in August, too). Movie: Diane Keaton in "POMS"! I've asked everyone to think of me on April Fools Day, 4/1 each year, and Laugh with me at our foibles, for a fresh year start. : )

Quit Faslodex 4/6/20, ONC said "your meds aren't working..." With that direct look.

Last Zometa Infusion 5/4, to support a few more weeks of daily Letrozol, that was helping my Lung Mets. I was still afraid of SOB/Suffocating!

Oh Good, I Can Finally Quit the medicines!! Era of Covid, so family moved me home from Independent Living by mid- April, to our beautiful 4-acre Garden of Eden with my DH. Hired Personal Chef through HH/Home Health.

Hospice and Continuous Flow Oxygen started 5/13/20, plus 2 Inhalers to keep my SOB/Shortness of breath and breathing going. (Does this count as no meds? Hospice pays 100% : )

Bed ridden by 5/20/20.Today Happy Solstice! I can't lift myself or walk alone, Liver Mets (Dx 2/6/20) have taken over, with Lymph and Bone mets. I have only taken 1/4 dose of *Morphene twice (3.5 ml), "to take the edge off" of the pain, so that I can work with Observing the changing nature of the impermanence of the body, with Equanimity, non-evaluation.

* Taking morphene was a big issue in my family (urging that I must!). My Hospice Team, and my Senior Meditation Teachers (many with medical backgrounds) all emphatically encourage "taking the edge off" so that I can work my practice as pain management. They are all very impressed and inspired how well it is working.

Today, Happy Solstice! Now: Jaundice. Kidneys and Liver have failed,digestion has shut down; Ammonia is flooding my body, causing brain confusion... These letters dance on the page...

We have just 5 or so days to go, maybe a coma. I've said all of my farewells and good byes, even to my brothers. THIS time period is for deep meditation. Many Vipassana Teachers come to meditate with us. My DH and DD are by my side. This is OUR sweet and precious Time, before my Special Journey. I expect to be reborn.

Love to you all, on your journeys, my Spirit Sisters on BCO, may they be joyful. farewell, Signing out, Diane Grace (Grace DD).

Dx 1/1992, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, metastasized to bone/other, Grade 2, 2/11 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/30/2006 Mastectomy: Right Dx 8/2006, DCIS, Right, Stage 0, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 9/2016, Right, 1cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs/other, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/8/2017 Femara (letrozole) Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Underarm/Axillary Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Chemotherapy CMF
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Jun 20, 2020 02:38PM NineTwelve wrote:

Thank you for the beautiful gift of this post. May your journey be blessed and blissful.

Right thoughts, right words, right action! - Franz Ferdinand Dx 9/12/2014, IDC, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 2, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 9/15/2014 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone), Zoladex (goserelin) Hormonal Therapy 10/1/2014 Dx 7/2016, IDC, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs Hormonal Therapy 8/16/2016 Faslodex (fulvestrant), Zoladex (goserelin) Targeted Therapy 8/16/2016 Ibrance (palbociclib)
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Jun 20, 2020 07:23PM Sunshine99 wrote:

Grace, I wish for peace to overflow you and your family.

Cancer has progressed to my bones. I pray that it never enters my soul. Dx 11/2/2007, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIA, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 3/26/2020, ILC/IDC, Stage IV, metastasized to bone, ER+/PR-, HER2- (FISH) Hormonal Therapy 4/22/2020 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 5/5/2020 External: Bone Radiation Therapy 5/12/2020 External: Bone Targeted Therapy 6/10/2020 Ibrance (palbociclib)
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Jun 21, 2020 02:45AM Traveltext wrote:

Thanks for telling it how it is Grace. Love how you are going with the flow. Go for that journey in comfort and peace.


NED breast and prostate cancer. More on Male BC

Dx 03/14, IBC, Lgth. 2cm, Stge IIIB, Gde 2B, ER+/PR+, HER2- ; FEC x3, Taxol x3; Mx & 2/23 nodes; Rads x 33; now on tamoxofin.

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Jun 21, 2020 11:29AM SandiBeach57 wrote:

Grace, as you drift off and leave the burden of your body, please know that I appreciate your thoughts, your sharing of how you feel and how much your family means to you as you transition.

You are wise beyond words.


Wear your jewelry! See my biography section for diagnosis and treatments.
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Jun 21, 2020 11:45AM Beesie wrote:

Diane, what grace you have shown as you traveled this road. Thank you for keeping us with you. Your choice of a screen name is perfect.

Wishing you a peaceful, joyful journey.


“No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” Edmund Burke

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