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Topic: "Cancer Cleanse Camp?"

Forum: Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment — Complementary medicine refers to treatments that are used WITH standard treatment. Holistic medicine is a term used to describe therapies that attempt to treat the patient as a whole person.

Posted on: Dec 14, 2010 02:07PM - edited Aug 20, 2013 06:24AM by thenewme

thenewme wrote:

Dr. Judy Seeger posted on a few other topics, and I didn't want to hijack those threads, but was curious about her statements.

I hadn't heard of "Cancer Cleanse Camp," or  "Natural Cancer Cure Foods," so I went to several of her sites, but I was unable to find any research links or references anywhere on either site. The glaring absence of any legitimate medical information is a huge red flag to me, and the fact that even the very titles of your sites suggests that you know (and sell) the "cure" for cancer.  It bothers me that some readers here (actual breast cancer patients, for the most part)  may mistake your posts and/or sites for legitimate breast cancer resources.

Dr. Judy, (hopefully you're reading here) , I see on your site where you say, "You can heal ANY disease, including cancer, when you use these simple, low cost alternative therapies that you can do at home [in less than 60 minutes a day!]. It's easy when you have the right tools."

But then, in your rather lengthy disclaimer, you say, "We advise users to always seek the advice of a physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions regarding personal or medical health conditions. Never disregard, avoid or delay in obtaining medical advice from your doctor or other qualified health provider because of something you have read on this site. If you have or suspect that you have a medical problem or condition, please contact a qualified health care professional immediately."

One of your videos suggests that the three simple steps to curing you own cancer at home are 1)Alkaline water, 2)Vegetable juice, and 3) Dealing with your Fears ....??? 

I'm not sure what to think, but this is really disturbing.

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

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Dec 14, 2010 03:31PM - edited Dec 14, 2010 03:32PM by mathteacher

 Feel better.

When in doubt, read the actual studies and do the math.

Dec 14, 2010 05:10PM thenewme wrote:

Hi mathteacher,

Thanks, but it's not me that's sick.

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Dec 15, 2010 12:44AM impositive wrote:

thenewme, I had to laugh....Your posts are a kind of comic relief for me.  You're just unstoppable, relentless.   If negative energy were fire, you would be a raging inferno.

Dec 15, 2010 08:50PM CrunchyPoodleMama wrote:

No one here has denied that there are unscrupulous, unethical quacks out there who purport to practice "alternative" treatment. If this Dr. Judy is claiming that those three things alone, without any other dietary or lifestyle changes, can "cure" cancer, then she falls into that category (sorry, Dr. Judy, if you're reading this, but it's that category of people who give alternative treatment a bad name and cause people like thenewme to write it all off).

If you're interested in looking into an actual M.D. who declined chemo/radiation to reduce a grapefruit-sized tumor on her chest (it was some form of breast cancer; I don't recall exactly what) and is N.E.D. decades later, do a search on Dr. Lorraine Day. She has outstanding advice that falls in line with the comprehensive approach many of us take on this board.

Julia ~ Dear friends, do what you can to help your body fight/prevent cancer. 1. Supplement with iodine and vitamin D. 2. STOP taking hormonal birth control/HRT. 3. Eat organic real food, not chemical or fake food. Dx 11/13/2009, DCIS, 4cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+

Dec 16, 2010 12:41PM - edited Aug 20, 2013 06:25AM by thenewme

Hi Julia,

Au contraire, I certainly don't write off all complementary therapies.  I just base my choices on evidence and data.  I use critical thinking and reasoning to make my own choices. I personally don't care what treatment modalities anyone chooses.  What I DO have a problem with and feel the need to respond to, is misinformation. I'm forever looking for scientific data, as that's what I look for. 

Nobody has to read my posts or respond, but I feel a positive energy (thanks, impositive, but you've got it all wrong about me.  Btw, your user name is so ironic in the context of this discussion, given the definition prefix -im!) knowing that when someone does a Google search on the term "cancer cleanse camp," for example, they might just find my post and be inspired to do some digging to find out whether they agree with my assessment that it's a bunch of BS or not.  If they read my opinion and disagree, I'm good with that!  At least they've considered a different perspective.  I value the "devil's advocate" perspective, as it makes me think about things (re: cancer treatment or other!) in a more reasoned and balanced way. 

Personally, I do use (or have tried), lots of "complementary" strategies.  Among them are things like meditation, exercise, healthy diet, vitamin D, calcium, fish oil, flaxseed oil, aspirin, green tea, curcumin, melatonin, evening primrose, good quality multivitamin, massage therapy, chiropractic, acupressure, yoga, etc.  These are just my own choices, and I implicitly trust my treatment team to help guide my treatment and to respect my choices.  Some of my choices are based on facts, and some just make me feel better, and some I'm just hoping may be of some benefit.  I certainly don't delude myself into thinking they'll cure my cancer or absolutely prevent recurrence, and I wouldn't presume to tell someone else to do what I do, other than look for REAL data and facts and then make the choice that they feel comfortable with.

As for Dr. Lorraine Day, all I can say is YIKES.You say she ""has outstanding advice that falls in line with the comprehensive approach many of us take on this board."  In MY opinion, she's a dangerous quack of the worst kind.  Here are some reasons why:

1. Her website(s) are commercial and primarily aimed at selling unproven/disproven therapies.

2.  I was unable to find any research, evidence-based data or studies, or reference links at all on her site, but plenty of "testimonials."

3.   I personally find the story of her curing her own cancer to be utterly unbelievable.

4.   I find her religious implications that only her "brand" of believers are worthy of healing and that her predjudiced "God" is the only path, and that disbelievers should be punished with disease, to be insulting, narrow-minded, and appalling.

5.  Her websites are full of conspiracy theories, threats, and other well-known red flags indicating quackery.

6.  Her belief that the three main causes of disease are poor nutrition,dehydration, and stress indicates her utter lack of understanding of science, medicine, and common sense. 

7. Her supposed cures for EVERY disease are so overly simplistic, but of course you have to order her books, tapes, videos, etc. to learn how to cure yourself.  

8.  I'm unable to find ANY organization, doctor, association, or other entity that I personally consider legitimate, to endorse her or her methods.

9.  Her fanatic religious, intolerant, anti-semitic rants are completely offputting to me and obscure any possible useful message she may have.  

10.  Her classic blame-the-victim theory is nonsense.

11.  Common sense just goes against everything she stands for.

Obviously, I could go on and on but I'll stop for now. Please feel free to disagree or debate, as these are obviously my own personal opinions.  

ETA - On rereading my post, I take back where I said I don't care about the treatment anyone chooses.  That's not true.  I do care, and that's why I post what I do.   

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Dec 16, 2010 04:41PM LJ13-2 wrote:

Impositive, I am positive that Thenewme is anything but negative.

She is literate, intelligent, logical, and has an abundance of kindness.

And she knows what color poo is. Just sayin.

Dec 16, 2010 05:24PM squidwitch42 wrote:

LJ13-2,

Well said.

Dx 10/2/2009, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/7 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Dec 16, 2010 10:08PM impositive wrote:

LJ13-2, Some one who tries to start so much of it, should know what color is. 

Here's the thing...We come here on the alternative boards to discuss non-conventional ways WE BELIEVE can make us healthier. I'm sure we are all literate, intelligent, logical, and kind but I just dont see that in either of your posts.  All the negativity, sarcasm, "quack" bashing and insults you bring to these boards aren't going to change any of our minds, so why do you do it? 

Bullying is a form of abuse.  Bullying types of behavior are often rooted in a would-be bully's inability to empathize with those whom he or she would target. They enjoy being cruel to others and sometimes use bullying as an anger management tool.  It is an act of repeated aggressive behavior in order to intentionally hurt another person. 

'Nuff said....

Dec 16, 2010 10:28PM - edited Aug 20, 2013 06:25AM by lucy88

I don't know why bullies come from the mainstream camps to vent their meanness, ridicule and sarcasm. What are they afraid of? It's our bodies. Why can't they just leave us in peace?

Are our ideas that threatening? That there might be more than one way of thinking about cancer? Are they so insecure in their own treatment choices that they have to trash ours?

News flash: It ain't workin, bullies! You just make us more dertmined.

'Nuff said... x 2

"Not knowing when the dawn is coming, I open every door." -- Emily Dickinson Dx 1994, IDC, 1cm, Grade 3, ER+/PR+

Dec 17, 2010 12:26PM LJ13-2 wrote:

Bullying?

What person have I bullied Impositive?

As far as negativity goes, I can't see how saying nice things about Thenewme is negative.

I don't understand why you are bullying me Impositive.

Dec 17, 2010 01:31PM motheroffoursons wrote:

Most of us believe in a combination of traditional and holistic methods.  I look at it as trying to control the cancer with traditional, and then trying to prevent a recurrence using supplements and other methods to build the immune system.

However, those of us who object to therapies such as the cancer cleanse camp do so for other reasons.  We do not want newbies or people who do not understand the processes to believe in these jerks.  We feel a need to protect our breast cancer sisters from unethical practices.  And this is one of them.

I do have to say that Impositive can be quite reactionary in her posts also, here and on the fungal thread.  Bullying can work two ways.

Opposing some strange cancer cure and stating it is false does not make one a bully.  If you are going to tell me to stand on my head to cure cancer, I will do it if you can find a modiocum of scientific support.

Trying to protect others from false cures and quacks does not make them a bully.

God does not promise you tomorrow, he promises eternity. Sharon Dx 11/2/2006, DCIS, Left, 4cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 17, 2010 08:28PM impositive wrote:

motherofoursons, Although I rejected chemo and radiation because of what I believe, I dont go to the other boards and try to "save" the newbys. I just believe it is disrespectful of the women there who have faith and confidence in those therapies... just as it is here on this board. I Agree with you, there are some very unscrupulous people out there and I do therefore, understand your need to do so. Your posts do not attack others beliefs and opinions because they differ from yours.  Yours seem to offer valid reasons why you say what you do.  Where I take issue is with the sarcasm and meanness that are in these women's posts. It's simply not necessary. If the true intent is to help people, it just isn't a logical approach.  So when you say I am reactive,you are absolutely correct.  Reactive is the key word. I react when I see these nasty posts, like the one telling a breast cancer sister that she will die if she does't do things their way. These women are already in a dark place, a comment like that can truly send them over the edge.  We all live in fear of this beast, so there is simply no need for sarcasm, to strike more fear or be cruel.

Cheryl Saban, author and advocate for women and children once said, Fear makes us weak, alters our perspective, blurs our judgement and devours our vitality.  When I believe I can alter a situation, then I am in control...in charge despite the fear. When we think we can affect our circumstances, we can be fearless in our quest for the things in life that make us feel whole and content.

If we all believe that holistic medicine has it's place here then why would these women try to rob others of their ability to be in control of their fear?

Dec 17, 2010 09:26PM - edited Dec 18, 2010 07:25PM by Hindsfeet

I don't like to make a judgment before knowing all the facts. In regard to Dr. Judy Seeger, I don't know enough about her to say that she's a quack. Who knows, maybe she's helped a lot of people through diet, juicing, and dealing with negative emotions and fears.

FEARS: People who are fearful are more likely to High levels of stress and cortisol which can suppress the immune system and free radicals can damage the body and DNA. Stress free lifestyles are important in health.

Alkaline Water: I'm not sure what I think about alkaline water. Once water enters the acid stomach is the water still alkaline? However, water without the chorine & floride is better than tap water. (chorine & floride kills good bacteria).

Diet: It's common knowledge that a good diet is the ingredients to good health. There are also anti cancer foods. Enough said

These maybe Dr. Seeger biggies, but, I hope that once someone met with her that she would also suggest other ways to stay cancer free. On her site, which I did view, she has something you can take during chemo and rads. She didn't seem to say it's wrong to do a conventional approach to cancer...but rather add the alternative as well.

She is someone who apparently feels that she can help those who suffer from disease and cancer. I may not agree totally with her, but I respect that she wants to help. Is she making money off her work...I hope she makes enough to provide for herself. Should someone check her out? If I had invasive cancer, believe me, I would be checking out a lot of alternative approaches. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

edited...in additon to this post...I just looked on Dr. Day's site. Hey, if the testimonies on there are true, then, she's pretty impressive....especially in that she had such a huge C tumor and still cancer free! She is very unapologically Christian in her approach and beliefs. Perhaps mixing a little too much of medicine and faith on such a website. Someone coming on her website with a different belief system could very well find her bold stand offensive. I didn't see anything on her website that was anti-semitic. My husband is Jewish so I would pickup anti-semitic statements. She does have a medical background. Again, I don't know if she is for real, but if I needed to....not saying I would do it, I would further check into her ten points.

>

Dx 6/13/2014, IDC, 1cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+

Dec 19, 2010 05:49AM - edited Dec 19, 2010 05:55AM by asschercut

thenewme wrote : Personally, I do use (or have tried), lots of "complementary" strategies. Among them are things like meditation, exercise, healthy diet, vitamin D, calcium, fish oil, flaxseed oil, aspirin, green tea, curcumin, melatonin, evening primrose, good quality multivitamin, massage therapy, chiropractic, acupressure, yoga, etc. I certainly don't delude myself into thinking they'll cure my cancer or absolutely prevent recurrence.

Then why on earth would you be taking things like aspirin, green tea, curcumin...etc?

Wouldn't have anything to do with these alternatives having anticancer properties, now would it?

Either you're in denial...or you just don't want to admit that you're a regular lurker in the "Natural girls" thread.  Let me guess... you're latest fashion accessory is a balaclava! Teehee!

Victoria

Dec 20, 2010 01:57PM - edited Aug 20, 2013 06:26AM by thenewme

Fear is not the enemy.  Fear is a completely natural survival mechanism.  Anyone who doesn't have some degree of fear of breast cancer is delusional.  The key is in how one chooses to harness the fear.  For me, the best defense against fear is knowledge.  Knowledge based on facts, not denial, delusion, or disproven theories.

It all comes down to risk versus benefit.  For me, after a lot of research and fact-finding, I've decided that the potential benefit and the risks are acceptable to me.  So for ME personally, I think aspirin, green tea, curcumin, etc, may possibly have some health benefits, and possibly some anticancer benefits, and I'm familiar with documented risks (if any) of the options I choose.  I certainly don't haphazardly start swallowing handsful of curcumin pills or whatever, thinking it's going to cure my cancer.  And I certainly research the dosages and strengths, as well as ingredients, manufacturers, and marketing claims with open eyes and an open mind.  

And I certainly would never tell someone else that my choices should be theirs.  All I advocate is knowledge. Know the options.  Know the facts.  Distinguish between marketing hype and factual evidence for or against a particular treatment.  Know the possible risks and understand how they might be mitigated.  Know the potential benefits, including the limitations and how to maximize the benefits in your particular circumstances.  Educate yourself enough to know when to raise the BS flag, like this particular "cancer cleanse camp."

Be perceptive enough to distinguish between statements such as "curcumin cures cancer!" and "curcumin may have some potential anticancer properties, but the dosages required to see the benefit may be nearly impossible to attain."   Develop some critical thinking and logical reasoning skills.

Why this advice is considered negative or bullying is really beyond me.  

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Dec 20, 2010 02:03PM elmcity69 wrote:

motheroffoursons:

RIGHT ON. Beautifully expressed and the crux of it all, I think.

This is tough stuff, and of course we react strongly, whatever our philosophy. It is all connected to the life and death nature at the core of this.

Dx 9/24/2009, ILC, 2cm, Stage IIIC, Grade 3, 15/19 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2+

Dec 20, 2010 02:17PM thenewme wrote:

Oops - forgot to reply to specific statements.

Impositive, I'm not sure who you saw telling a breast cancer sister she would die, but I'd agree thats crossing the line into unreasonable, cruelty, and nastiness.  

Barry, as we've decided before, you and I will just have to agree to disagree on most things, but I have to say I did see antisemitic nonsense and advice that a respectable medical doctor would never, ever give out. That's my opinion and I don't have a problem calling a rose a rose.  This person is a dangerous and immoral charlatan.  

Hi Victoria, isn't a lurker generally defined as one who reads without posting?  Doesn't a balaclava in this context imply that one has something to hide?  I post fairly regularly here, and I definitely don't try to hide anything (although I know some people would prefer me to disappear altogether Wink).  I'm pretty open and honest about my opinions and intentions here, but if that's not clear, let me know and I'd be happy to elaborate. 

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Dec 20, 2010 02:25PM Janeluvsdogs wrote:

You guys lost your credibility when you defended bullies.

Dec 20, 2010 03:41PM thenewme wrote:

Janeluvsdogs wrote: "You guys lost your credibility when you defended bullies."

Huh?

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Dec 21, 2010 01:23AM - edited Aug 20, 2013 06:27AM by impositive

I was referring to. (Mimi99 - It's back - help and hugs) There were posts there that definitely crossed the line. One woman said, "I've never told anyone this before but I will say it now, if you dont take chemo, you will die." Another said, "Not doing anything" (this is how she referred to our alternative treatments) "is tantamount to pulling the trigger."  I think you were on that thread too recently.

Dec 22, 2010 10:36AM mollynminnie wrote:

Once again I don't understand Jane's statements....  Undecided

Is it just me??

Molly

Dx 7/15/2006, IDC, 6cm+, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, 3/14 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Aug 14, 2012 07:56PM steve19149 wrote:

I have studied extensively on traditional and alternative treatments to cancer and can assure you Judy Seeger is a true nut case. I posted on one of her sites daring her to sue me.  Good luck with that she knows she is doing nothing more than talking people out of their money.  

    As for research backing her claims that wouldn't matter as many of her type either distort research or make up lies.  No one should ever trust her guaranteed cures.

   

Aug 15, 2012 09:01AM kayfh wrote:

I like to see this revived from time to time so that people who missed it the first time around can see what is Out There.

Kay Dx 3/3/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, 8/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 4/27/2009 Mastectomy: Left

Aug 15, 2012 09:55AM - edited Aug 17, 2012 05:34PM by Moderators

This Post was deleted by Moderators.
"Once more into the fray... Into the last good fight I'll ever know... Live and die on this day... Live and die on this day." - The Grey

Aug 15, 2012 10:01AM kayfh wrote:

Seems to me that there is plenty of drama here without needing to instigate it. No. I am always looking for something new to think about. How about you?

Kay Dx 3/3/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, 8/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 4/27/2009 Mastectomy: Left

Aug 15, 2012 10:02AM - edited Aug 17, 2012 05:34PM by Moderators

This Post was deleted by Moderators.
“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Aug 15, 2012 10:10AM - edited Aug 17, 2012 05:34PM by Moderators

This Post was deleted by Moderators.
"Once more into the fray... Into the last good fight I'll ever know... Live and die on this day... Live and die on this day." - The Grey

Aug 15, 2012 08:24PM Natkat wrote:

Amusing thread ... and I'd like to interject some common sense:

#1 anything called a Cancer CAMP sounds pretty bogus.  But there are plenty of quacks and BAD SCIENCE on both the "alternative" AND the corporate/mainstream side of the fence.

#2 There is no magic bullet one-cure-fits-all.  Whether you go mainstream, integrative, or 100% natural each one of us has to do our OWN research and find the treatment that fits our individual case.

#3 I don't have any more belief in "cancer diets" than I do in cut, radiate, and medicate treatments.  BOTH ideologies assume that there is ONE way to treat cancer.  These cookie-cutter approaches offend every bit of logic I possess as a thinking human being.

Sadly, breast cancer has become politicized.  From the growing sense of outrage I feel at the slick corporate marketing of bc in the "Komen" camp to the incredible pressure to march in lock-step with the corporate profit driven treatment schemes revolving around expensive surgeries and long-term meds.  I would like to see us spend LESS time on the politics of it all and MORE time on researching what works and sharing our results.

Since statistics have become nothing more than scientific bling used to get new products past the FDA it is up to US to do our own grassroots research right here on forums like this.  SHARE what we learn and keep a SCIENTIFIC OPEN MIND to what others learn and can share.

Peace & good health to all of you

Dx 6/2012, ILC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+

Aug 16, 2012 10:41AM - edited Aug 16, 2012 10:49AM by thenewme

Boy, this is an old thread!  As quack "Dr." Judy Seeger and her bogus cancer cleanse camp are being actively discussed elsewhere, I'd venture a guess maybe that's why this thread was revised.

Kayfh, I agree.  I'm always looking out for more information too.

Ruby and Gracie1, Re:  "Mods, checking into an IP addy might be in order here, accompanied by a permanent banning? Clearly revived to create arguments."  Maybe you should PM the mods to check into it if you really believe something untoward is happening here, rather than insinuating some evil-doing (which could easily be mistaken as you stirring up drama).

NatKat -Thanks!  Grassroots research and sharing what I've learned here, while keeping a "scientific open mind" is what I try to do here!  That's exactly why I started this thread way back when.  Evidently Judy Seeger is still promoting her dangerous nonsense with regard to cancer treatment, so I can't see any reason she shouldn't be discussed.  Can you?

Edited to add: NatKat, I'm not sure how this topic is related to politics as you suggest.  To me, it's simply about a snake oil saleswoman.  Did I miss something?

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-

Aug 16, 2012 11:19AM - edited Aug 17, 2012 05:36PM by Moderators

This Post was deleted by Moderators.
“The cell’s intracellular cytoplasmic sea is an ocean of symphonic motion awash with incomprehensible complexity.” Howes, M.D., Ph.D Dx 2010, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIB, Grade 1, 3/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

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