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Topic: Burzynski: The Movie **SKEPTIC ALERT**

Forum: Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment — Complementary medicine refers to treatments that are used WITH standard treatment. Holistic medicine is a term used to describe therapies that attempt to treat the patient as a whole person.

Posted on: Nov 29, 2011 06:10PM

thenewme wrote:

***SKEPTIC ALERT***

I actually saw Burzynski The Movie: Cancer is Serious Business.  I know it's been discussed in other threads, but I'd love to discuss it with other like-minded people who may have seen it.  I read this review, and have to say I completely agree with the author.  Of course, I nearly always agree with the evidence-based stuff I read there, LOL!

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/i... 

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 29, 2011 07:21PM Black-cat wrote:

Hi thenewme,

Orac posted a good review of the movie on his blog today.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/11/burzynski_the_movie_subtle_its_not.php#more

There was another excellent review of the movie posted by someone else. It was a few months ago. I'll see if I can find it for you.

"It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason Dx 7/24/2009, IBC, 6cm+, Stage IIIC, Grade 2, 2/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 29, 2011 08:00PM - edited Nov 29, 2011 08:01PM by rosemary-b

Wow

My husband had warts when he was a kid. He ate Miracle Whio sandwiches (I know-ick) and they went away. If I find 2 more people they worked for is that a cure for warts? (Yes I know about the power of suggestion-my point was the rule of 3)

I do not believe anyone who only has testimoials as proof.

Dx 2/25/2007, IDC, Stage I, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 29, 2011 09:04PM Hindsfeet wrote:

If you don't believe in the testimonies that were pro Burzynski that were in Federal Court then why should I believe any of the testimonies you've given on a internet forum?

Dx 6/13/2014, IDC, 1cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 29, 2011 09:24PM Cynthia1962 wrote:

I haven't seen the movie, but I'm not qualified to judge it anyway if my history of believing in quackery is any evidence.  (I blame my ignorance on having a horrid science education.)  lol  I love Orac and the other bloggers on scienceblog.com.  They've helped me see the error of my beliefs on many subjects and I'm trying to make up for lost time.

Mets to bones Dx 1/3/2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 4/18 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 2/16/2007 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Underarm/Axillary Chemotherapy 3/19/2007 Adriamycin (doxorubicin), Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Radiation Therapy 9/6/2007 Breast, Lymph nodes Hormonal Therapy 11/9/2007 Hormonal Therapy 11/1/2010 Arimidex (anastrozole) Dx 11/11/2010, IDC, Stage IV, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/1/2012 Xeloda (capecitabine) Chemotherapy 11/14/2012 Navelbine (vinorelbine)
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Nov 29, 2011 09:47PM - edited Nov 30, 2011 03:03AM by princess123

This Post was deleted by princess123.
"Be patient. God is using today's difficulties to strengthen you for tomorrow. He is equipping you. The God who makes things grow will help you bear fruit." Max Lucado
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Nov 30, 2011 01:02AM Cynthia1962 wrote:

Excellent article from Discovermagazine.com about Burzynski's clinic's threats to sue anyone who publicly criticizes him.  Amazing the lengths some people will go to to be allowed to take advantage of others.
Mets to bones Dx 1/3/2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 4/18 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 2/16/2007 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Underarm/Axillary Chemotherapy 3/19/2007 Adriamycin (doxorubicin), Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Radiation Therapy 9/6/2007 Breast, Lymph nodes Hormonal Therapy 11/9/2007 Hormonal Therapy 11/1/2010 Arimidex (anastrozole) Dx 11/11/2010, IDC, Stage IV, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/1/2012 Xeloda (capecitabine) Chemotherapy 11/14/2012 Navelbine (vinorelbine)
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Nov 30, 2011 01:24AM thenewme wrote:

"On April 11, 2012, the Texas Medical Board will try to revoke Dr. Burzynski's medical license, resulting in the closure of his clinic, the abandonment of all his patients, and risking any possibility of Antineoplastons gaining FDA-approval." 

That's the most positive news I've read about Burzynski!   It's a sorry shame that he's been allowed to continue his dangerous quackery for as long as he has. 

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 01:35AM - edited Nov 30, 2011 03:04AM by princess123

This Post was deleted by princess123.
"Be patient. God is using today's difficulties to strengthen you for tomorrow. He is equipping you. The God who makes things grow will help you bear fruit." Max Lucado
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Nov 30, 2011 01:40AM thenewme wrote:

http://anaximperator.wordpress.com/

Really good analysis of the "evidence" presented by Burzynski.

Mercola is another affiliate-income quack who, IMHO should never be cited as a credible resource regarding healthcare or medicine.

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 01:52AM MJLToday wrote:

The commenters on Orac's blog speculate that any results Burzynski is getting are due to him underhandedly prescribing real chemo drugs off-label.  Interesting. 

MJ '98 Stage 2 ER+/PR-/Her-, AC+Tam: Sep 08 bone/liver mets. Arimidex,Faslodex,Zometa thru 12/09, Aromasin+Everolimus thru 03/10, Abraxane thru 3/11,Xeloda 8/11,Armed Activated T cell trial 9/11, Taxotere/Gemzar now
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Nov 30, 2011 02:10AM Lulu22 wrote:

Look at Burzynski's own site and you'll see that half or more of the BC patients he profiles received chemo while under his care. Sometimes it's simply called "mild chemo" or "low-dose chemo". Sometimes the specific drug, e.g. Xeloda, is named.

burzynskipatientgroup.org/trac... 

Dx 9/7/2011, IDC, 5cm, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/8/2011 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel Surgery 1/18/2012 Lumpectomy: Left Dx 12/17/2014, IDC, Left, 1cm, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 1/8/2015 Lymph node removal: Left, Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Saline implant; Reconstruction (right): Saline implant Radiation Therapy Breast Chemotherapy AC + T (Taxol) Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole), Aromasin (exemestane), Femara (letrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Nov 30, 2011 02:18AM - edited Nov 30, 2011 02:21AM by Lulu22

I'd also note the side effects of one of his "alternative" therapies for breast cancer, sodium phenylbutyrate:

More common

  • Change in the frequency of breathing
  • lack of or irregular menstruation
  • lower back, side, or stomach pain
  • mood or mental changes
  • muscle pain or twitching
  • nausea or vomiting
  • nervousness or restlessness
  • swelling of the feet or lower legs
  • unpleasant taste
  • unusual tiredness or weakness
Less common
  • Chills
  • fever
  • joint pain
  • sore throat
  • unusual bleeding or bruising
Rare
  • Convulsions (seizures)
  • dizziness
  • dryness of the mouth
  • fast, slow, or irregular heartbeat
  • increased blood pressure
  • increased thirst
  • irritability
  • muscle cramps
  • rectal bleeding
  • swelling of the face
  • unusual weight gain
  • weak pulse
www.drugs.com/cons/sodium-phen...
Dx 9/7/2011, IDC, 5cm, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/8/2011 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel Surgery 1/18/2012 Lumpectomy: Left Dx 12/17/2014, IDC, Left, 1cm, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 1/8/2015 Lymph node removal: Left, Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Saline implant; Reconstruction (right): Saline implant Radiation Therapy Breast Chemotherapy AC + T (Taxol) Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole), Aromasin (exemestane), Femara (letrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Nov 30, 2011 02:23AM thenewme wrote:

LOL, Lulu!  That doesn't sound a whole lot better than the SEs from chemo! 

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 02:29AM Lulu22 wrote:

Thenewme-

That's what I was thinking. "I'll trade you one hair loss for a rectal bleeding!"

Dx 9/7/2011, IDC, 5cm, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/8/2011 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel Surgery 1/18/2012 Lumpectomy: Left Dx 12/17/2014, IDC, Left, 1cm, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 1/8/2015 Lymph node removal: Left, Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Saline implant; Reconstruction (right): Saline implant Radiation Therapy Breast Chemotherapy AC + T (Taxol) Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole), Aromasin (exemestane), Femara (letrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Nov 30, 2011 02:37AM thenewme wrote:

Hahahaha!  

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 12:59PM Cynthia1962 wrote:

After reading about half the BC patient profiles, all I can say is Wow!  Do any of these patients understand their own cancers?  It doesn't seem like it to me.  They were given chemo, Herceptin, bisphosphonates, and AI's along with shit that doesn't work.  Most of them have only been in "complete remission" for a couple of years or less.  I was in "complete remission" for 3 years.  Doesn't mean anything.  Apparently, if you give people the complete package, ie: beautiful surroundings, lots of attention, and scientific sounding information while telling them what they want to hear, you can sell them anything.  I'm grateful that I hadn't heard about him before I learned enough to know he's a quack.  It's unfortunate that people who are in positions of authority can "sell" whatever they want and, for the most part, get away with it. 

Mets to bones Dx 1/3/2007, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 4/18 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 2/16/2007 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Underarm/Axillary Chemotherapy 3/19/2007 Adriamycin (doxorubicin), Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Radiation Therapy 9/6/2007 Breast, Lymph nodes Hormonal Therapy 11/9/2007 Hormonal Therapy 11/1/2010 Arimidex (anastrozole) Dx 11/11/2010, IDC, Stage IV, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/1/2012 Xeloda (capecitabine) Chemotherapy 11/14/2012 Navelbine (vinorelbine)
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Nov 30, 2011 01:38PM thenewme wrote:

It's sad, isn't it?  Selling false hope. 

What's the Harm in Alternative Medicine?

Not about Burzynski, specifically, but a poignant list of people who have been harmed by quackery.

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 01:49PM Booboo2 wrote:

That list of people is truly shocking.  The saddest cases, in my opinion, are the children who died because their parents did not believe in proper medical treatment.  I think that in cases like that, the parents should be charged with child neglect.

I am not completely against alternative medicine.  I think there is a place for it in cases where relief of suffering is the main objective, but it is really scary to me that people are using it to treat life-threatening diseases.  Because of the placebo effect primarily, alternative approaches may relieve pain and discomfort, and good nutrition will certainly help anybody.  But it's terrible how it can be misused to fool people into believing that they are being cured of deadly diseases, when they are not. 

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Nov 30, 2011 08:10PM Black-cat wrote:

Thanks for posting the link to what's the harm in alternative medicine, thenewme.  I remember reading it some time ago and being hit the hardest by one woman's story.  Warning: graphic photos:

http://www.ariplex.com/ama/amamiche.htm

Chemotherapy did work for her and the results are impressive.  Her tumor was shrunk down to the point that surgery would have been a viable option.

 Orac wrote about her here:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/11/a_different_kind_of_testimonial.php

"It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason Dx 7/24/2009, IBC, 6cm+, Stage IIIC, Grade 2, 2/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 08:58PM Black-cat wrote:

This one reminds me of someone here.  Someone that I feel is well on her way to the same fate.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/10/death_by_alternative_medicine_whos_to_bl.php

"It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason Dx 7/24/2009, IBC, 6cm+, Stage IIIC, Grade 2, 2/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 09:12PM digger wrote:

Wow, that's powerful black-cat.  And I agree with you, it's sad to watch as others prop her up with comments such as "you're so brave to go where no one has gone before!"  Unfortunately, she may believe that she's forging new territory, but she's not.  And unfortunately, many others will follow. As we see on other threads here, some people take what's said on an Internet discussion board as gospel. 

I've come to believe that some poeple just follow a different mindset, an "anti-establishment" mindset.  And there's so much anger!  It's just sad to see that anger turned against themselves, when they cut off their nose despite their face.  They're so angry, so anti-"Medical Industrial Complex," that they hurt themselves.  Yes, of course it's their choice, but it's sad when anger gets in the way of treatment that could help them.

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Nov 30, 2011 09:14PM thenewme wrote:

It really is tragic to see victims of such blatant medical quackery.  Kim Tinkham's story is another one that just strengthens my resolve to speak out against nonsense here.

She was a proponent of Robert O. Young's alkaline diet quackery, and claimed to have cured her breast cancer.  Unfortunately it didn't turn out well. 

Dx 11/2008, IDC, 5cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/9 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Nov 30, 2011 09:22PM digger wrote:

Oh, and isn't anger negative?  And in alt-world, don't negative thoughts deplete your immune system, thereby causing an "infection" such as cancer to enter your body?  So maybe that's it?  Let go of the anger, and voila!  You're cured!

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Nov 30, 2011 09:37PM rosemary-b wrote:

It is just so sad.

Dx 2/25/2007, IDC, Stage I, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Nov 30, 2011 09:49PM Black-cat wrote:

and if your cancer comes back it's your fault for not thinking happy thoughts.  I just read the obituary of a women that I knew on a very casual basis, who died of cancer last week.   I only have spoken to her three or four times in the past two years and was aware of her cancer but not her treatment protocol.   The last time I saw her was about a year ago and her demeaner was very upbeat.  She asked me why choose conventional treatment and my simplistic reply was, "because I want to live".   She looked visiably upset and said goodbye abruptly.  I had no idea why that statement upset her.  Now I know.

Her obituary stated that she bravely chose an alternative path and refused chemotherapy and radiation.  The wording was slanted to make it sound like she was a hero and trail blazer.  There was a link to her caring bridge blog.

She went from one quack to another and endured humiliating painful treatments that consumed most of her life for 2 years. One quack told her that her cancer was due to a defect in her personality and she had to change it.

Another time she was going through a painful coffee enema treatment and forced herself to stop crying because she was ordered to think happy thoughts at all times. It was the negative in her life that caused her cancer and thoughts are so powerful that they can cause or cure cancer.

The community raised money for her and she unwisely used it for a quack treatment center and endured more painful treatments.

She zapped her tumor every day with Hulda Clark's zapper.

The bogus treatments go on and on. It would take me another hour to list them all.

She carefully documented everything with the thought that she was going to be cured and write a book about her journey.  Her blog was just the start. (kim tinkum thought the same thing) 

After I read her entire blog, I wondered if there was something that I could have done to reach her.  She had a very poor understanding of medicine and never wrote what her stage was. 

"It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason Dx 7/24/2009, IBC, 6cm+, Stage IIIC, Grade 2, 2/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Dec 1, 2011 12:11AM - edited Dec 1, 2011 12:19AM by Leia

You people make me sad. Why are you so frightened and so willing to cling to the Medical Industrial Complex. And all of their "treatments." 

But it is all good, in the end.  I reject the MIC treatments and stand for Burzynski. And all alternative treatments. 

You can go for your MIC treatments. Although, I don't think the government should have to pay for them. If you want $100,000/year Avastin, to live another year, you should have to pay. Not me, the taxpayer.  

I know $$$$ never comes into these "cancer treatments" that you all want. But in case you had not noticed, our country is bankrupt.

This MIC house of cards is ending, soon. The real answer is to just eat right, exercise, D3, the FOCC, and just live well.  Because what you seek, these "treatments" that you don't pay for, will no longer be available. 

It is just a matter of time. 

Dx 5/5/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Dec 1, 2011 12:25AM Black-cat wrote:

and yet another darwinian award winner

"It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason Dx 7/24/2009, IBC, 6cm+, Stage IIIC, Grade 2, 2/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Dec 1, 2011 12:52AM lisa-e wrote:

 I have read that the people who appear to do welll with alternative treatments are those who had no agressive cancers that can be treated wtih surgery alone.  That certainly seems to be the case for you, Leia.  The surgery you had is adequate treatment for your cancer.  Whatever alternative treatmetns or diets you have chosen to follow have nothing to do with it 'curing' your cancer.  

I avoided chemotherapy because it didn't offer me much of an advantage, as my breast cancer  was also non agressive and  er positive.   I am not frightened and clinging to the MIC.  I  made my treatment decision based on fact and would do the same if I had a more agressive cancer, even if that meant chemotherapy.

Initial BC dx with dcis & idc after lumpectomy & snb in 6/08. in 8/08 dx with multicentric bc (idc) after mri. had bilat mastecomy in 9/08 w/o reconstruction Dx 5/2008, DCIS, 2cm, Stage 0, Grade 3 Dx 6/2008, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/19 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Left, Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Right; Prophylactic mastectomy: Left
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Dec 1, 2011 12:52AM digger wrote:

Oh dear Leia, and who do you think pays for your smoking habit?  As you say, "it's just a matter of time."

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Dec 1, 2011 12:53AM digger wrote:

Too funny, Black-cat.

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