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Topic: Anyone taking Curcumin AND Tamoxifen?

Forum: Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment — Complementary medicine refers to treatments that are used WITH standard treatment. Holistic medicine is a term used to describe therapies that attempt to treat the patient as a whole person.

Posted on: Feb 11, 2013 01:35PM

Chrys23 wrote:

Hi --

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I really want to take Life Extensions Super Bio-Curcumin because I'm having some severe back issues. My sister takes it and it really helps with pain and inflammation.

However, I'm on Tamoxifen and I don't know if I can take it. I consulted my Onc's office today, and they said since they aren't sure about the interaction, that I shouldn't take it. She did recommend Condroitin and Glucosamine. She said that they refer to patients on Tamox.  I don't know if that helps w/inflammation but I'll give it  a try.

Anyone else taking Curcumin and Tamox? or Condroitin/Glucosamine?

Best,

Chrys

Lumpectomy & SNB 6/9/11; Re-excision 7/21/11; Chemo started 8/10/11 (TC 4x - every 3 weeks); Radiation sometime in November Dx 5/17/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/6 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 11, 2013 04:21PM jenn333 wrote:

Yes, I am.  I cleared it with my integrative oncologist.  Make sure you get one that has black pepper.  It's needed for absorption of the curcumin.  The one my doctor recommended is Meriva-SR (Thorne Research).

Dx 8/3/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Right; Reconstruction (right): DIEP flap Radiation Therapy 11/14/2011 Hormonal Therapy 1/27/2012
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Feb 11, 2013 04:28PM - edited Feb 11, 2013 04:29PM by GemStateGirl

I'm also taking tamoxifen and curcumin.  My naturopath recommended the curcumin and my oncologist said it was fine to take it with tamoxifen.  I'm also taking the Meriva-SR from Thorne Research.

ETA:  I order it from Amazon.

Original dx Stage IIIc, July 2011; bone mets, December 2013; liver mets, May 2014. Treatments: Mast (Rt), ACT Chemo, Radiation, Tamoxifen, Faslodex/Zometa, Xeloda/Zometa, Halaven/Zometa, Ixempra/Zometa Dx 7/27/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIIC, Grade 2, 28/28 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 11, 2013 05:06PM Chrys23 wrote:

Ladies - has the Curcumin helped in any way; meaning any noticeable differences. The Lufe Extension Super Bio Curcumin supposedly has the highest absorption rate.

Lumpectomy & SNB 6/9/11; Re-excision 7/21/11; Chemo started 8/10/11 (TC 4x - every 3 weeks); Radiation sometime in November Dx 5/17/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/6 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 12, 2013 01:06PM jenn333 wrote:

No, not really.  I'm not having any issues, though.  I feel perfectly fine. I decided to take turmeric/curcumin (among other things) because it's one of the main anti-cancer foods recommended in Anti-Cancer, a New Way of Life by David Servan-Schreiber.  (A great resource if you're not already familiar with it, by the way.)  I also try and eat a good hot curry every week and add turmeric in cooking as well.  It's great added to brown rice.  (Just remember to add black pepper if you're cooking with it.)

Dx 8/3/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Right; Reconstruction (right): DIEP flap Radiation Therapy 11/14/2011 Hormonal Therapy 1/27/2012
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Feb 12, 2013 02:43PM GemStateGirl wrote:

I wasn't having any particular issues, with the exception of wanting to prevent a recurrence of my cancer, so I haven't noticed any difference being on the curcumin.  I first heard about it's importance from reading Anti-Cancer by David Servan-Schreiber and would also highly recommend that book.  My library had it as well as a DVD he did that summarizes the book.

If the Life Extension brand is helping your sister, it sounds like a good thing to try.  Hope you  have a good experience with it.

Original dx Stage IIIc, July 2011; bone mets, December 2013; liver mets, May 2014. Treatments: Mast (Rt), ACT Chemo, Radiation, Tamoxifen, Faslodex/Zometa, Xeloda/Zometa, Halaven/Zometa, Ixempra/Zometa Dx 7/27/2011, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIIC, Grade 2, 28/28 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 12, 2013 03:54PM Jelson wrote:

I wasn't taking any supplements when initially diagnosed, reducing my risk of breast cancer recurrence or new breast cancer are the  primary motivators in any supplements for me. Curcumin and Vitamin D3 were the first I began taking. In fact, I am taking the life extension brand that you are considering - recently stocked up! - it does contain whatever is in pepper to aid absorption. I have never seen any reference to curcumin being contraindicated while on tamoxifen. It was highly recommended by a physician/presenter at a Breast Cancer Research conference which I recently attended. I wasn't experiencing aches and pains before so I can't speak for its efficacy in that regard.  I would try it!

Dx 4/17/2009, DCIS, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 3, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+
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Feb 12, 2013 04:48PM Chrys23 wrote:

Thanks ladies! I truly hope there is no contradiction! I'm going to try it to help prevent recurrence and my back issues/inflammation!!

Lumpectomy & SNB 6/9/11; Re-excision 7/21/11; Chemo started 8/10/11 (TC 4x - every 3 weeks); Radiation sometime in November Dx 5/17/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/6 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 14, 2013 09:46AM Timothy wrote:

Chrys23, have you considered daily low dose aspirin?  I'd certainly consult your physician, but there may be some potential benefit to asa in both inflammation and cancer recurrance.

I was trying to read everything I could find on tamoxifen and curcumin interaction, as curcumin seems to offer some (speculative?)potential for benefit.  Next logical step is always to consider if there is some downside.  The area of potential interaction is the metabolism of tamoxifen into its active form, endoxifen.  The concern is that curcumin might inhibit the enzyme pathway that facilitate tamoxifen into its active form.  Similar to the fears that women who tested for altered cyp2d6 genetics might not receive full benefit from tamoxifen (something that went to the wayside after a lack of proof of a link).  Those enzymes fall into a group known as cyp2d6.  It gets more complicated the more you look into, but I couldn't find any evidence that it does inhibit the necessary enzymes.  It does interact with enzymes however.  At the same time, its impossible to give it a totally clear go ahead, without some actual study of women on tamoxifen who consumed curcumin regularly.  Unfortunately I couldn't find any such research.  So to sum it up, it appears there is no clear evidence against it, but at the same time none to prove it safe for tamoxifen users.  It's up to you to decide the level of evidence you need to make a decision.  So I guess what I'm saying is that there is no definitive answer that I could find.

Concerned husband Dx 2008, Left, Stage IIIB, Grade 3, 7/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 5/2016, Stage IV, metastasized to liver, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy Xeloda (capecitabine)
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Feb 14, 2013 09:53AM Timothy wrote:

There is a study from Korea, published in 2012, that showed in rats, curcumin inhibited the metabolism of tamoxifen into its active form.  It's stuff like that, which bothers me, and makes me wonder if the benefit is worth the risk.

Effects of curcumin on the pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its active metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen, in rats: possible role of CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein inhibition by curcumin.

Source

School of Medicine, Research Institute of Life Science, Gyeongsang National University, Jinju, Republic of Korea.

Abstract

The effects of curcumin, a natural anti-cancer compound, on the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen, were investigated in rats. Tamoxifen and curcumin interact with cytochrom P450 (CYP) enzymes and P-glycoprotein, and the increase in the use of health supplements may result in curcumin being taken concomitantly with tamoxifen as a combination therapy to treat or prevent cancer. A single dose of tamoxifen was administered orally (9 mg x kg(-1)) with or without curcumin (0.5, 2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) and intravenously (2mg x kg(-1)) with or without curcumin (2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) to rats. The effects of curcumin on P-glycoprotein (P-gp) and CYP3A4 activity were also evaluated. Curcumin inhibited CYP3A4 activity with 50% inhibition concentration (IC50) values of 2.7 microM. In addition, curcumin significantly (P < 0.01 at 10 microM) enhanced the cellular accumulation of rhodamine-123 in MCF-7/ADR cells overexpressing P-gp in a concentration-dependent manner. This result suggested that curcumin significantly inhibited P-gp activity. Compared to the oral control group (given tamoxifen alone), the area under the plasma concentration-time curve (AUC(0-infinity)) and the peak plasma concentration (C(max)) of tamoxifen were significantly (P < 0.05 for 2.5 mg x kg(-1); P < 0.01 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) increased by 33.1-64.0% and 38.9-70.6%, respectively, by curcumin. Consequently, the absolute bioavailability of tamoxifen in the presence of curcumin (2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) was 27.2-33.5%, which was significantly enhanced (P < 0.05 for 2.5 mg x kg(-1); P < 0.01 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) compared to that in the oral control group (20.4%). Moreover, the relative bioavailability of tamoxifen was 1.12- to 1.64-fold greater than that in the control group. Furthermore, concurrent use of curcumin significantly decreased (P < 0.05 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) the metabolite-parent AUC ratio (MR), implying that curcumin may inhibit the CYP-mediated metabolism of tamoxifen to its active metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen. The enhanced bioavailability of tamoxifen by curcumin may be mainly due to inhibition of the CYP3A4-mediated metabolism of tamoxifen in the small intestine and/or in the liver and to inhibition of the P-gp efflux transporter in the small intestine rather than to reduction of renal elimination of tamoxifen, suggesting that curcumin may reduce the first-pass metabolism of tamoxifen in the small intestine and/or in the liver by inhibition of P-gp or CYP3A4 subfamily.

Concerned husband Dx 2008, Left, Stage IIIB, Grade 3, 7/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 5/2016, Stage IV, metastasized to liver, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy Xeloda (capecitabine)
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Feb 14, 2013 12:19PM Heidihill wrote:

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/69/24_MeetingAbstracts/3098

Curcumin makes cancer cells more sensitive to tamoxifen according to this.

Dx 8/2007, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone, Grade 2, 2/19 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Hormonal Therapy 3/24/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Feb 14, 2013 12:24PM Chrys23 wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Heidyhill - what do you mean by sensitive? I couldn't open your link.

Lumpectomy & SNB 6/9/11; Re-excision 7/21/11; Chemo started 8/10/11 (TC 4x - every 3 weeks); Radiation sometime in November Dx 5/17/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/6 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 14, 2013 03:20PM sbaaronson wrote:

I take it. I also take the Life Extension 5-lox Inhibitor. Life Extension is a good company...

Dx 8/15/2010, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/13 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 15, 2013 04:19AM - edited Feb 15, 2013 04:23AM by Heidihill

This means they are less able to survive and grow.  I don't supplement with curcumin but used a lot of curry while I was on Femara for joint pain. Maybe ask your doctor if this is OK?  Or get a second opinion on supplementing? Tamoxifen has been gentler on my joints so I haven't been eating much curry.



Dx 8/2007, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone, Grade 2, 2/19 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Hormonal Therapy 3/24/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Feb 17, 2013 08:36AM claireinaz wrote:

Curcumin is also supposed to inhibit cells from becoming tamoxifen-resistant over time (a good thing).

9/29/11 ILC, 2 c. stage II grade 1, ER/PR+ HER2-, 6/11 nodes, lumpectomy, DDAC x 4, Taxol x 12, 33 rads, Tamoxifen to arimidex, BMX/immed recon 7/3/13 "God supposedly gives us only what we can handle. God must think I'm a badass."
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Feb 18, 2013 04:45AM Raili wrote:

I take Turmeric capsules.  My medical oncologist has not said anything about it; I haven't directly asked her, but Tumeric is on my medications list that she has.  My naturopath thinks it's great that I'm taking Turmeric and is also supportive of the Tamoxifen, and didn't mention anything about Turmeric being contraindicated...

Dx 11/2009, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jul 26, 2013 11:27AM new2bc wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am still not sure if I can take curcumin c3 that includes black pepper while taking Tamoxifen. Can you please let me know if you are taking it and if your doctor approved it?

Also, what other supplements are you taking with Tamoxifen? Dim? indole 3 carbinol?

Any input is appreciated even if you can answer partially.

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Jul 26, 2013 01:47PM LtotheK wrote:

FWIW, one of my second opinions suggested not taking anything more than the US RDA of supplements with my Tamoxifen.  The reason:  they will never get to the bottom of all the contraindications.  I took her advice, but keep with my large dose of D, as I was quite low and struggle to keep it up. 

Given the latest on fish oil, I generally believe anything you add in has some consequence.

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Jul 26, 2013 06:27PM fredntan wrote:

I read that the fish oil thing was flawed. I still believe in my fish oil. I did learn to keep it in glass bottle, and not to use rancid oil.

Stage 4 now, on afinitor and aromosin Dx 8/3/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 13/17 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/8/2011 Lymph node removal: Right, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Right Radiation Therapy 3/28/2012 Breast, Lymph nodes Surgery 10/7/2012 Reconstruction (left): DIEP flap; Reconstruction (right): DIEP flap Surgery 4/2/2013 Reconstruction (left): Nipple reconstruction; Reconstruction (right): Nipple reconstruction Dx 10/2013, Stage IV, mets Chemotherapy 11/19/2013 Abraxane (albumin-bound or nab-paclitaxel), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil) Hormonal Therapy
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Jul 27, 2013 07:09AM LtotheK wrote:

I'd like to hear about the fish oil debate, Fran, as I still have a lot of it and I think it really helped my joints.  Any info you have would be helpful.

I generally subscribe to the idea that food based supplementation is best, but having worked outside this country quite a bit, I'm here to tell you we have truly destroyed our food in the US.

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Jul 27, 2013 08:51AM - edited Jul 27, 2013 08:52AM by jojo68

Green Pastures makes an authentic, highly regarded old world fermented fish oil...best to take with their butter oil for better absorption...great company!  And, they welcome and answer any questions! Also is best for vitamin D and K.

http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Home/index.cfm

Bone marrow mets. Completed DIEP recon... ILC Stage 2B/3A Grade 2/ER+/PR+/HER- 7/29 nodes/3cm "You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose."~The good Dr. Seuss
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Jul 27, 2013 08:58AM TarheelMichelle wrote:

Newtobc, because you asked, I took DIM for about 2 weeks. It gave me moderate to severe hot flashes. To me, on a non-scientific level, that showed it was doing something to my estrogen levels. However, I was about to switch traditional treatments (from Faslodex to Tamox) so I stopped the DIM so I could monitor the SE of Tamox. (I'm very side effect sensitive). If I can tolerate Tamox, I plan to add DIM back.

Ronda -- Celebrating 5 years with Stage IV Dec. 2016, 5 years of marriage Nov. 2016. Extensive mets to lungs & bones. 9/13, subcutaneous skin mets. My life is Stage IV precious. Every day is a win! 5/16 Drug trial with DGC-0032 and Femara Dx 2/14/2008, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 3/10/2008 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel Radiation Therapy 4/16/2008 Dx 12/19/2011, Stage IV, metastasized to bone/lungs, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 1/30/2012 Aromasin (exemestane) Hormonal Therapy 12/19/2012 Faslodex (fulvestrant) Hormonal Therapy 7/16/2013 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery 4/23/2014 Reconstruction (left) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2014 External: Bone Targeted Therapy 11/16/2015 Afinitor (everolimus) Targeted Therapy 5/19/2016 Hormonal Therapy 6/1/2016 Femara (letrozole)
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Oct 5, 2013 05:07PM sophie456 wrote:

I came across this post while searching for Curcumin benefits. I gave my oncologist a list of all of the supplements I am taking and she said it is ok to take Curcumin. I take Jarrow Curcumin 95 500 mg every day. Does anyone else take this one?

I take several supplements (including fish oil, magnesium, EGCG, calcium, Vitiman D3 and glucosamine) and I hope they don't interfere with the tamoxifen absorption.

Dx 5/6/2011, DCIS, Stage 0, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 6/4/2011 Lumpectomy: Left Radiation Therapy 9/8/2011 Breast Dx 5/10/2013, IDC, <1cm, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 6/18/2013 Mastectomy: Left; Prophylactic mastectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 8/31/2013 Dx 1/17/2014, IDC, <1cm, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 1/22/2014 Lumpectomy: Left Chemotherapy 2/27/2014 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Radiation Therapy 6/13/2014 Breast, Lymph nodes Surgery 11/14/2014 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 2/27/2015 Femara (letrozole)
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Jun 12, 2016 10:10PM HugoTorres wrote:

Sorry, but you didn't understand the article.Please, read the next line after the bold phrase: "The enhanced bioavailability of tamoxifen by curcumin may be mainly due to inhibition of the CYP3A4-mediated metabolism of tamoxifen in the small intestine and/or in the liver and to inhibition of the P-gp efflux transporter in the small intestine rather than to reduction of renal elimination of tamoxifen"

This means that Curcumin boosts the bioabailability of Tamoxifen!!!!! Biovailability is: The proportion of a drug or other substance that enters the circulation when introduced into the body and so is able to have an active effect.

It seems you misunderstood the whole report. Curcuming, according to that article and other scientific studies, Curcumine and Tamoxifen are synergestic, that is work very well together: www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/18/1/701/pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S...

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.4161/cbt.11....

Please read carefully the studies and also the sources.

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Nov 30, 2016 05:40PM alternativelycurious wrote:

Tamoxifen is a prodrug of 4-hydroxytamoxifen, meaning an enzyme in the body modifies tamoxifen to create 4-hydroxytamoxifen. 4-hydroxytamoxifen is 50-100 times more potent than tamoxifen in its anti-cancer effects. The authors hypothesize that the increase in tamoxifen bio-availability is a direct result of curcumin's prevention of tamoxifen being converted into its more potent metabolite 4-hydroxytamoxifen.

While I haven't had a chance to read the full article, based on the abstract Timothy was quite right in his assessment.

That said, there are always going to be conflicting results. Trying to sort through everything and decide how much weight to give to each result is the hard part.

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Dec 1, 2016 01:27PM Bounce wrote:

I hope I remember this correctly - somewhere there is a thread by a lady who had her blood checked before and while taking Curcumin (and Tamoxifen) and she found it did interfere with the Tamoxifen.

I was very impressed by her thread when I read it - although she is a study of 1 and I always say I want 15,000 people in any study - I was impressed with her thoroughness and she isn't a mouse. I hate studies done on mice.

I will keep looking for the thread and post a link to it if I find it.


Dx 8/5/2013, IDC, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 8/31/2013 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Radiation Therapy 11/3/2013 Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2013 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Dec 1, 2016 01:36PM - edited Dec 1, 2016 01:45PM by Bounce

I found it:

The relevant post is the start of the thread - Maggs09.

Link

I suggest anyone taking Curcumin and Tamoxifen also read JohnSmith's post in the same thread. He has a February 2016 update that would make me stop taking Curcumin if I was on it and has prevented me from taking Curcumin despite my doctor and pharmacist saying I could.



Dx 8/5/2013, IDC, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 8/31/2013 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Radiation Therapy 11/3/2013 Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2013 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Dec 23, 2016 06:51PM - edited Dec 26, 2016 05:28PM by gardengypsy

This Post was deleted by gardengypsy.
Dx 10/29/2015, ILC/IDC, Left, 5cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 12/3/2015 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement Chemotherapy 1/8/2016 AC + T (Taxol) Surgery 5/23/2016 Hormonal Therapy 5/27/2016 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Radiation Therapy 6/5/2016 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes, Chest wall
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Dec 23, 2016 06:59PM gardengypsy wrote:

When I asked about the herbs I take, my Dana Farber pharmacist recently stated that Cannabis (high THC, not CBDs), Elderberry, Echinacea,Valerian and Tumeric interfere with Tamoxifen.

Dx 10/29/2015, ILC/IDC, Left, 5cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 12/3/2015 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement Chemotherapy 1/8/2016 AC + T (Taxol) Surgery 5/23/2016 Hormonal Therapy 5/27/2016 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Radiation Therapy 6/5/2016 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes, Chest wall

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