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Topic: Ketogenic diet? I am so confused

Forum: Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment — Complementary medicine refers to treatments that are used WITH standard treatment. Holistic medicine is a term used to describe therapies that attempt to treat the patient as a whole person.

Posted on: Apr 4, 2013 06:55PM

jojo68 wrote:

Well, veggies are supposedly toxic for you and we should just be consuming meat to keep insulin down...sooo confusing.  Interesting link about review of Ketogenic diet and this reviewer's take (she is a doctor herself) on veggies etc...scroll thru her site...so, confused.

http://diagnosisdiet.com/what-causes-cancer/

Bone marrow mets. Completed DIEP recon... ILC Stage 2B/3A Grade 2/ER+/PR+/HER- 7/29 nodes/3cm "You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose."~The good Dr. Seuss
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Mar 15, 2017 03:09PM solfeo wrote:

Hi Elaine! I love hearing these stories of long-term success. Glad you are doing so well so far out.

I agree, this is just my life now not a diet, and I have no desire to go back to eating unhealthy. I see fast food commercials on TV, and I cringe that I used to put that crap in my body. Also when I flashback to the experience of eating junk, the taste and everything about it seems so much less satisfying than eating healthy real food. That's why I don't understand the criticism of keto for cancer. No one could look at my diet and name one unhealthy food, but just because it's low carb it's possibly somehow dangerous? Really? Starch and sugar are necessary food groups?

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 15, 2017 05:35PM ChiSandy wrote:

Even some health care professionals seem to confuse ketosis with ketoacidosis—the latter of which is dangerous (and usually a complication of diabetes) but the former of which is not. When I was on dead-animals-and-leaves low-carb, I heard the misguided conflation of ketosis with ketoacidosis all too often. I fully agree that starch & sugar are “necessary” only to the continued well-being of agribusiness. I salute your discipline; but gastronomy is one of my few pleasures in life (one of which is travel—of which cuisine is an important part). If ever travel and dining out becomes impossible, I may go back to a near-keto eating lifestyle.

Diagnosed at 64 on routine annual mammo, no lump. OncotypeDX 16. I cried because I had no shoes...but then again, I won’t get blisters.... Dx 9/9/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/23/2015 Lumpectomy: Right Radiation Therapy 11/2/2015 3DCRT: Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2015 Femara (letrozole)
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Mar 15, 2017 08:34PM solfeo wrote:

I know, whatever did the human race do before the invention of bagels?

I'm a food lover myself, and the fact that I love to cook and get creative in the kitchen provides quite a bit of variety and eating pleasure. I love to adapt recipes, which often turn out comparable to the originals, but even when they don't they are delicious in their own right most of the time. Food is my art and my hobby, which is helpful when you have to spend a lot of time preparing your meals from scratch. My family never feels deprived either although they are not low carb when I am not the one doing the cooking.

I can always find something on the menu when I eat out, but most things I'm allowed to eat in a restaurant won't be nearly as interesting as what I would be making at home. For that reason I don't miss dining out much, but we do go out a few times a year for birthdays and such.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 15, 2017 10:51PM solfeo wrote:

Here's what's for dinner. Tuna Thai Yellow Curry Fried Riced Cauliflower with fresh herbs from my garden. I have been on a Thai curry kick lately and it is so easy to make.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 16, 2017 01:31PM HopeandLove wrote:

Solfeo, do you mind sharing your recipe for the Tuna Thai Yellow Curry Fried Riced Cauliflower with fresh herbs? It looks very good and I'm looking for recipes that are ketogenic and estrogen-positive breast cancer friendly (i.e. no soy). Any other recipes you want share would be very welcome too. (I did find some in the archives from you and others that I have tried and liked).

Dx 5/7/2015, IDC, 1.1 cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH), Oncotype 15; Dx 6/21/2015, Pleomorphic LCIS, Grade 2 Surgery 6/21/2015 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 7/21/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Mar 16, 2017 03:30PM solfeo wrote:

Curries are a good way to use up whatever you have in the fridge at the time, and ingredients are adjusted to taste and desired heat level, so the recipe is never the same, but I can share tips for how to make it.

For the fried riced cauliflower (really sauteed in coconut oil) I save time and money by buying pre-riced frozen organic cauliflower. Whole Foods sells it under its 365 brand. I live on an island and even a non-organic fresh cauliflower costs an arm and a leg. WF actually has really good prices on all of its frozen organic veggies, as does Costco.

I buy what is on sale and throw whatever other veggie I want at the time in with the cauliflower rice. Leftovers work really well here. Last night I used mushrooms and frozen organic mixed greens. Green beans are also good, or asparagus. Bell peppers add a little zing but you have to be careful about quantity so I buy an organic frozen chopped blend (also 365) so I don't have to waste any. A scrambled egg mixed in at the end can also give it more of that fried rice familiarity but I don't always do that. Then spice it up however you want. Don't forget to count all of the carbs which can add up if you're not careful. This dish is good just as is, as a side dish or with some protein mixed in for a meal. I used the tuna, which of course is low-mercury from a BPA-free can, but you can use anything.

The basic way to make a Thai curry sauce that you can put on anything, is coconut oil in a hot skillet, then you bloom your curry paste and other fragrant spices in the oil for a few minutes. The minimum you want to use is the curry paste, but you can add ginger and garlic or anything else you want. My favorite curry paste is the Mae Ploy Brand. It's so much more authentic than the kind you can usually find in the regular grocery store, and the only place I can get it is on Amazon. It also lasts forever. I keep a container of red, green and yellow curry paste in the fridge at all times. Start with a teaspoon and work your way up depending on your heat tolerance.

Then you're going to add some coconut milk, a little healthy sweetener like stevia, some fish sauce (Red Boat makes one that is gluten- and sugar-free - very strong, use sparingly), and some kind of acid like lime or lemon juice, or vinegar (put it in at the end). I don't eat much soy, but sometimes I do use organic gluten-free tamari, which is a more concentrated form of soy sauce so you don't have to use very much at all (good mixed into the "rice" as well). If you want to leave that out use more salt and other spices to compensate for the loss of flavor. You can also add nut butters and turn it into a satay-type sauce.

This gives you your basic Thai flavors. You don't have to go crazy on authentic Thai ingredients but you can if you want to. Like galangal or kaffir lime leaves - lots of recipes online. It's really good with a mixture of cilantro, Thai basil and mint leaves, which I always have growing.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 16, 2017 04:49PM HopeandLove wrote:

Oh my goodness, this sounds so delicious! Thank you for all the tips and brand names -- I've updated my grocery list. Happy I keep hearing good things about cauliflower rice, but I haven't much success using it as a substitute for real rice, but then I've only tried twice. I usually mix it with a tomato sauce and turkey for an Italian-style dinner. Anyway, I'm going to try sauteeing it in coconut oil, as you suggested. My doctor is okay with a little soy sauce or tamari once in a while, so I will use that too. Thanks so much.

Dx 5/7/2015, IDC, 1.1 cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH), Oncotype 15; Dx 6/21/2015, Pleomorphic LCIS, Grade 2 Surgery 6/21/2015 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 7/21/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Mar 16, 2017 07:10PM solfeo wrote:

My pleasure, I really do like to share my love of food.

The San-J brand of tamari is non-GMO made from whole soy. They carry it at Whole Foods but I have also seen it at normal stores. It's more expensive, but so is everything else I eat and we have adjusted to spending too much money on food. You can't put a price on your health. I figure I will either be paying for the clean organic food or paying for the doctor.

Another good thing to do with the curry sauce is to marinate chicken thighs or other parts in it then throw it on the grill. Boil the remaining marinade to kill the raw chicken germs and you have a little sauce to put on the chicken and your veggies when it is done. It was leftover sauce from chicken a couple of nights ago that I used on the rice last night, so all I really had to do was cook the veggies, open a can of tuna and tear up some herbs.

You can also make curry dishes with shirataki noodles vs. the fried rice.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 17, 2017 04:07PM solfeo wrote:

When I do the curry grilled chicken, I use erythritol instead of stevia for increased caramelization that you don't get from stevia. Shrimp on a skewer would also be awesome but I can't eat shellfish anymore due to my elevated copper levels.

Here is another recipe that is really good in a curry, but also on their own. All of my recipes are flexible (I rarely make anything the same way every time). If you don't have all of these spices on hand, use what you have in amounts you would prefer. Most of the measurements are for dried spices, but you can use fresh (the ratio is usually going to be about twice as much fresh herb to dried, but I think dried spices hold up better in the cooking).

Moroccan Meatballs

1 lb ground meat (turkey, beef, pork, lamb or any combination)

1 raw egg

1/2 Tbsp minced garlic

1/2 Tbsp minced ginger

2 tsp ground coriander

1 tsp salt

1 tsp ground cumin

1/2 tsp onion powder

1/2 tsp paprika

1/2 tsp Italian seasoning (or dried oregano if that is all you have)

1/2 tsp curry powder

1/2 tsp allspice

1/4 tsp ground black pepper

Mix it all together like you would any meatballs. Form into 16-18 meatballs and bake at 350 for approximately 10 minutes. If you are going to simmer them in a curry sauce after baking, then they should be barely cooked when they come out of the oven, to avoid overcooking in the sauce. If you won't be cooking them more they should be fully cooked when they come out of the oven, obviously. Adjust baking time accordingly.

The large amount of powdered spices seem to fulfill the role of a binder in this recipe. I have found that I don't need to add anything else, but I used to add a little almond flour or ground flax. You could still do that if you want to, just be conscious of added carb count. I also have added chopped cilantro and mint in the past, but I have found they lose most of their flavor in the cooking. It's better to use fresh herbs on top of whatever final dish you are serving.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 17, 2017 06:07PM solfeo wrote:

I dug up this old photo of the Moroccan Meatballs. Looks a lot like the other one because of the herbs on top but you can sort of see the meatballs under there. These were lamb meatballs in a red curry, and served on cauliflower rice with green beans, mushrooms and chopped asparagus. There is really no end to the different variations you can come up with.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 18, 2017 04:21PM Momine wrote:

Solfeo, those look great. I don't do keto, but I do restrict carbs. It is an easy way to keep my weight steady. Veggies rule

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Mar 18, 2017 06:46PM HopeandLove wrote:

Totally agree with Momine -- those meatballs look so good Solfeo. I'm also not keto (yet), but have been restricting my carbs. Last night I tried sauteeing the riced cauliflower in coconut oil. What a difference from how I was cooking it (I had been boiling it or trying to saute it in olive oil)! It was delicious. I put lemon on it and then a touch of the San-J tamari you recommended. Thank you again for the great recipes and I'm excited to do some cooking this weekend.

Dx 5/7/2015, IDC, 1.1 cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH), Oncotype 15; Dx 6/21/2015, Pleomorphic LCIS, Grade 2 Surgery 6/21/2015 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 7/21/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Mar 18, 2017 07:16PM solfeo wrote:

Thanks ladies. I think that might have been the first time I made them. I remember feeling like I was eating the most decadent thing while doing something so healthy for myself. We should all feel that way when we eat, but it's hard to maintain enthusiasm when you are looking at boneless skinless chicken breast and salad for the 5 millionth time. It only takes a little imagination.

One of the reasons it was so easy for me to go full keto is because I had already been off grains for two years and mostly eating low carb (if you don't count the wine LOL, which unfortunately did keep me from losing much weight). I had so much weight to lose when I was diagnosed that I couldn't afford to mess around. I didn't have to change much, just got more serious about the program I was already on.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 18, 2017 09:05PM solfeo wrote:

Hopeandlove: I don't do this often but for an occasional splurge, cooking the cauliflower rice in bacon grease takes it to a whole new level. With crumbled bacon mixed in the final dish. Yes it is as good as it sounds. That's the kind of "cheating" I do now. Something that is still keto, but a food I wouldn't normally eat, like bacon or cream cheese. No low-carb food is off limits on a special occasion. Everyone wants to feel like they can have a treat every once in awhile, but with this approach I don't have to pay for it afterward with weight gain, elevated blood sugar and re-awakened food cravings.

It will never taste just like rice but it is good nonetheless, and the longer you go without eating real rice the difference will seem even less obvious.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 18, 2017 10:16PM ChiSandy wrote:

I just had a leftover piece of chicken, asparagus, and roast Brussels sprouts. To my horror, I cut into the chicken and found that instead of a thigh, it was a breast (I DETEST white meat chicken unless it’s been Southern-fried, which is the antithesis of low-carb). So I reached into the fridge and found an open packet of hollandaise sauce I’d used to make a faux-Benedict. (Ingredients: egg yolks, clarified butter, lemon, salt, cayenne—made in France). It made the piece of formerly avian cardboard palatable.

Diagnosed at 64 on routine annual mammo, no lump. OncotypeDX 16. I cried because I had no shoes...but then again, I won’t get blisters.... Dx 9/9/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/23/2015 Lumpectomy: Right Radiation Therapy 11/2/2015 3DCRT: Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2015 Femara (letrozole)
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Mar 19, 2017 11:00AM solfeo wrote:

I don't hate chicken breast but it's easy to get tired of it. Brussels sprouts are a favorite vegetable. I love them roasted in the oven tossed only with EVOO and plenty of salt and fresh cracked black pepper. I could eat them by the pound but have to limit to 1/4 lb. for carbs.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 19, 2017 12:48PM HopeandLove wrote:

ChiSandy -- I had to laugh about the chicken breast. I love good fried chicken too, but also stay away -- it's hard sometimes! The hollandaise sauce sounds like a great way to perk up that chicken!

Solfeo -- I love Brussels sprouts too and was surprised when you said you have to limited them because of the carbs. I thought unlimited non-starchy vegetables were allowed on the keto diet. I've read protein needs to be restricted to some extent based on weight and personal goals. I'm not keto yet, but hope to commit to it soon. It sounds like I have more homework to do. Your personal story has been inspiring and I'm glad you are willing to share what works for you and doesn't. It really helps to hear you allow yourself some bacon and/or cream cheese on special occasions. I'm going to experiment, too, with the cauliflower rice and a little bit of bacon grease. :)

What about chocolate? Is that off limits? I was thinking of making hot chocolate with unsweetened cocoa, almond milk or coconut milk, and stevia for an occasional treat.

As odd as it sounds, the one thing I would have trouble giving up is my "apple a day" habit. Call me weird, but I love a good apple. I eat a very small, organic one (or 1/2 of a large one if I can't buy the small) every day after lunch. I haven't had a problem giving up pasta, bread, real rice, or dairy, but the thought of giving up my beloved apple scares me. Singing

Dx 5/7/2015, IDC, 1.1 cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH), Oncotype 15; Dx 6/21/2015, Pleomorphic LCIS, Grade 2 Surgery 6/21/2015 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 7/21/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Mar 19, 2017 01:10PM CeliaC wrote:

Funny about the chicken - breast is all I have ever liked (ditto for turkey) and never been a fried anything fan. Since living in N KY now, which is somewhat Southern, fried chicken is all over the place!

Brussels sprouts - DH just roasted some about 1/2 ago along with carrots, so had some lovely veggies for lunch. Agree on the EVOO, salt & pepper.

Apple a day - I, too, enjoy this and not ready to give it up.

Dx 12/2/2016, DCIS/IDC, Left, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 12/21/2016 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Radiation Therapy 2/21/2017 Whole-breast: Breast Hormonal Therapy 4/5/2017 Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Mar 19, 2017 01:10PM HopeandLove wrote:

One other question -- does fat need to be restricted? I've read where some people say they have a teaspoon of coconut oil if they are hungry before bed. But what if you've already had plenty of good fats during the day. Is there ever too much?

Dx 5/7/2015, IDC, 1.1 cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH), Oncotype 15; Dx 6/21/2015, Pleomorphic LCIS, Grade 2 Surgery 6/21/2015 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 7/21/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Mar 19, 2017 02:04PM solfeo wrote:

You do have to limit your total net carbs to stay in ketosis, so no vegetable is truly unlimited, although it would be hard to go overboard on certain ones like lettuce. 4 oz of raw Brussels sprouts have almost 6 grams of net carbs, 2.5 grams of sugar and over 3 grams of starch. I would only even eat that much at one meal if I wasn't eating other carbs with them. I try to stay under 20 grams of net carbs per day but I can eat up to 30 without raising my blood sugar or affecting ketosis. Everyone is different so you have to experiment to find out what works for you,

Too much protein will kick you out of ketosis too. It also raises insulin, IGF-1 and activates mTOR which is not good for cancer. So if you are doing keto for cancer and not just weight loss you especially don't want to eat more protein than your body needs to repair itself. I eat around 4 oz of animal protein per day and I try to get the rest from plant foods for total protein of around 50-60 grams per day. Again, that amount will be different for different people, and depending on how much exercise you get. There are so many opinions about how much is enough that you have to come to your own conclusions. If you're not losing weight and carbs are in line, then too much protein is very likely the culprit.

Fat doesn't have a metabolic effect but if you eat too much of it your weight loss can be stalled from the excess energy (AKA calories - and this becomes more important the closer you get to your goal weight). Strangely enough, too little fat can also stall weight loss so it's another balancing act. I don't limit fat the way someone on a low fat diet would, but I don't eat more than my body needs to fulfill my energy requirements. I do limit animal fat though because of the hormones. Even if the animal is not raised on added hormones there will be some naturally occurring in their fat, just like estrogen lives in our body fat.

Dark chocolate is OK (the higher the percentage of cacao the better), but again, only within your carb limit. There are concerns about cadmium contamination in even organic products so it would be good to do some research on the subject.

I have posted this before but in case you haven't seen it, I use Cron-O-Meter to track my macro- and micro-nutrients. It has presets for different levels of keto strictness.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 19, 2017 04:13PM - edited Mar 19, 2017 04:15PM by solfeo

I have a membership at consumerlab.com. They are the ones that did the cacao and cadmium tests. They also tested flavanol levels but you can't see it unless you subscribe. The best brand in terms of most flavanols for least amount of contamination was good old Baker's Unsweetened 100% Cacao Baking Bar, the kind you can find right in the regular grocery store. It is completely unsweetened so it tastes terrible until you make something out of it.

You can find recipes online for chocolate keto candies and baked goods. I don't personally eat much of that kind of thing because I tend to want to overeat them, which can mean too many carbs due to volume.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 19, 2017 08:15PM flaviarose wrote:

regarding protein, I recently read a very interesting article about new research which says that while cancer cells need glucose for metabolism, it is actually protein that constitutes the tumor mass: http://news.mit.edu/2016/how-cancer-cells-fuel-the...

I also read an article that implicates the specific amino acid, methionine, in the growth of cancer: https://integrativeoncology-essentials.com/2014/07/kill-cancer-restricting-methionine-rich-foods/

Dx 4/10/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage II, Grade 3, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ Surgery 5/9/2013 Lumpectomy: Right Targeted Therapy 6/12/2013 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Chemotherapy 6/12/2013 Carboplatin (Paraplatin), Taxotere (docetaxel)
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Mar 19, 2017 08:41PM solfeo wrote:

Yes and methionine is more prevalent in animal protein vs. plant protein, which is why I don't eat more than 4 ounces of meat per day as an average. I don't think you have to be a vegan but in my non-expert but well-read opinion, most people who have had cancer should be eating less protein than they do. And that might even apply to all people to prevent cancer and slow down age-related degeneration. Read up on Dr. Ron Rosedale. He has an interesting take on all this, and he has a new book coming out soon on the subject of keto in particular.

Keto was never intended to be a high protein diet, but as someone who has had cancer I will stay on the lower end of the moderate range. Just enough.

Cron-O-Meter that I mentioned up thread, will tell you how much methionine and other amino acids you are getting in the foods you log. It's really quite an amazing tool.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 20, 2017 12:05PM solfeo wrote:

Dr. Rosedale's new book will be released in early October. Co-author Maria Emmerich is a favorite keto life coach of mine. Most of you who have been doing a low carb diet for awhile have probably also heard of Jimmy Moore.

The Rosedale Plan: Redefining Ketogenic: A Revolutionary Approach to Reducing the Risk of Cancer and Diabetes, Slowing Aging, and Maximizing Health Paperback – October 3, 2017

by Ron Rosedale MD (Author), Jimmy Moore (Author), Maria Emmerich (Author)

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 20, 2017 12:12PM zogo wrote:

solfeo, have you seen the science based page run by Raymund Edwards on facebook? It is called Optimal Ketogenic Living. Much of the direction by all three people you mentioned above has been debunked by peer reviewed studies on that page.

~Jane~ "Most obstacles melt away when we make up our minds to walk boldly through them" ......"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is your only option"
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Mar 20, 2017 12:32PM solfeo wrote:

I have read studies on all sides and most if not all of them are not definitive enough to prove or debunk any of the others, just like everything else in nutrition and cancer. That is why I individualize my program so much based on the totality of what I have read. I don't follow Rosedale's recommendations exactly (and I am sure they have changed since his last book) but he and the others have useful information and experience to add to the conversation.

I wish it wouldn't take so long to explain everything that goes into my personal choices, because there really are so many individualizing factors that should be considered, and you can't find out what they are if you entrench yourself in a single point of view.

I did sign up for OKL for a short time to check it out but I had to use my husband's FB account because I don't have one. I didn't see anything that changed my direction at this time, but my program evolves.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 20, 2017 09:50PM zogo wrote:

Solfeo, I totally respect your personal research and direction. I have done a huge amount myself, and as an engineer, I trust in scientific evidence.

But just by looks alone, Jimmy Moore is obese (if not morbidly obese), and Maria at the opposite end is so very thin, it seems unhealthy. I have issues with Dr. Rosedale's recommendations as well, but I agree that is a lot to go into.

Glad you are finding the blend that works for you.

~Jane~ "Most obstacles melt away when we make up our minds to walk boldly through them" ......"You'll never know how strong you are until being strong is your only option"
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Mar 21, 2017 01:40AM solfeo wrote:

I don't think I said anything to indicate I don't trust scientific evidence or base my opinions on it. Plainly stated, the issue is that there is no science that clearly defines the best nutritional approach to cancer or we would all be on it.

I think we are disagreeing about the finer points of keto, and that doesn't matter so much, but I don't want others to be misled into believing that anyone's version of keto (including mine), or any other diet, has been proven as the best one after a breast cancer diagnosis. That is what I was talking about. I read significantly more science than most people would ever have time for, and it's not just the stuff specific to keto that has gone into the creation of my personal program. My approach has been to incorporate the best elements of all of the research into nutrition and cancer. I have something I can learn from a vegan, and they could probably learn something from me too. I also don't discount all of a source of information because I disagree with one part of it.

I don't think either one of us wants to come across as arguing, we're just trying to share our point of view, but I am going to strongly disagree with you about one thing. You cannot judge the quality of the information based on someone's looks or personal imperfections. I do not judge the science based on the appearance of the researchers, and I don't judge Jimmy Moore for gaining his weight back at one point, because most people who lose weight don't keep it off. I don't pay that much attention to him so I don't know where he is at right now, but he has been up and down in the past just like most humans who have ever been overweight. You said something like that before about Dr. William Davis, like his information and experience as a cardiologist can't be worth anything because he had a little gut on him when you saw him in person once. That's really not fair, and it's a lower form of criticism that doesn't address the substance of the matter at all.

We're all just doing the best we can and I wish you great success with your program. The only thing I am sure of is that there is usually more than one right way to do anything.

Oncotype 13 Dx 7/31/2015, IDC, Right, 3cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/7/2015 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy 11/16/2015 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Mar 21, 2017 05:54PM IAmElaine wrote:

I have found my net carb "sweet spot" is 30-35 grams per day and I am still in deep ketosis. This allows me to eat pretty much all the allowed veggies I want. I also eat about 75 grams of protein per day but I do a fairly aggressive cardio one hour per day for five days a week. At this point in my way of eating, I don't count or weigh anything. It is just second nature to me and has been for years.

Solfeo, like you, I look at all the fast food, junk food, processed convenience food, etc and it doesn't appeal to me in any way. Just remembering how absolutely lethargic and sluggish I used to feel after eating that stuff turns my stomach.

I stopped obsessing about my weight years ago and focused on healthy eating and feeling better. The rest takes care of itself.

Diagnosed March 1, 2004 with stage 3C ILC, 7cm tumor with 11+ nodes
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Mar 23, 2017 06:56PM HopeandLove wrote:

IAmElaine -- I enjoyed hearing your experience with the diet. I like your philosophy that if you focus on healthy eating, the rest will take care of itself.

FlaviaRose -- thank you for the information about methionine. I had never heard of this before.

Solfeo - again thank you for all the information that you have provided! I really appreciate all the research you have done and that you share it. What has worked for you may or may not work for me, but I think you have several good ideas that I want to try to incorporate into my life.

I downloaded Cron-O-Meter and it was truly eye-opening when I entered my food choices. I was shocked at the amount of carbs and protein I have been eating -- WAY too much of both, even though my food choices are healthy. Needless to say I'm working to correct this.

I am so grateful for this thread!

Dx 5/7/2015, IDC, 1.1 cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH), Oncotype 15; Dx 6/21/2015, Pleomorphic LCIS, Grade 2 Surgery 6/21/2015 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 7/21/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole)

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