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Topic: Non dairy.....why I feel let down by Jane plant

Forum: Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment — Complementary medicine refers to treatments that are used WITH standard treatment. Holistic medicine is a term used to describe therapies that attempt to treat the patient as a whole person.

Posted on: Jul 10, 2013 08:51PM

Sydneybased wrote:

So...it transpires that one of the chief proponents of anti- dairy diet has had a recurrence. As someone who is following this diet i can't help but feel let down. This is primarily because of the way that the news has been buried deep within a website (you'd have to be a bit of a sleuth to find the news), which I find less than fully transparent, and partly because a woman who supposedly saved her own life with careful dietary changes- and who encouraged others to do the same- could lapse her diet to such an extent that she gets a recurrence. Or, alternatively, is not entirely clear that diet and associated lifestyle changes alone are not enough to fight the beast (this is what she's been arguing).

I find the way the following article is framed......"now that I got a recurrence and am again in remission proves that my diet works" rather cynical. After all there are the book sales to worry about.

Bad on you Jane Plant for not being entirely honest, and for not being the role model - in dietary terms - which surely your position and profile would warrant.

http://www.cancersupportinternational.com/new-evidence.asp

Dx 10/5/2010, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Oct 28, 2013 10:02PM jessica749 wrote:

Momine, are you in Denmark???? I guess so. Everyone/Anyone: what about "Greek" yogurt? Is it made in Greece? I know it sounds like such a stupid question. I guess the answer is, it depends on the 'brand', like everything, and I should (like everything) read the label and see what it says about where it's made....

Dx 1/17/2010, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Oct 28, 2013 10:38PM exbrnxgrl wrote:

I doubt much, if any, yogurt made in the US comes from Greece. I think "Greek" refers to the style of yogurt. It is thick and I imagine heavily strained. Yogurt can be thin or thick and taste different depending on the starter culture it was made with. In Afghanistan, way back in the late '70's, we used to make yogurt from powdered whole milk that was imported from Europe. It was really good!

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Aromasin (exemestane)
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Oct 29, 2013 03:49AM - edited Oct 5, 2017 08:38AM by Momine

Jessica, no, I grew up in Denmark, but for the last 15 years I have lived in the US and Greece - which is apropos to your question.

Total yogurt is made in the US by a Greek company. Chobani is made by a Turkish-American in the US. I don't think they import the stuff from Greece anymore, although when Total was first introduced to the US by John "Fat John" Catsimatidis, they were flying it in.

Greek yogurt is thicker and creamier (even the no-fat version) than regular yogurt, as well as not being sour or bitter. Yogurt was introduced to Europe by a Greek from Thessalonica who went to France and opened a yogurt shop, later known as Danone.

Brnxgrl, you have probably told me before, but Afghanistan in the 70s? That sounds rather exciting. My parents took a trip through there by bus, with a bunch of students, in the 60s. My mom still talks about it.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Oct 29, 2013 08:53AM painterly wrote:

Hi Momine,

I had forgotten you are in Greece. I was just there a few weeks ago on a cruise to the Mediterranean and the Holy Land. The Greek ports of call were: Patmos, Rhodes, Santarini and finishing in Athens. While in Greece I enjoyed walking around eating spinach pie and ending up with frozen yoghurt with sour cherries. Heavenly! On my return home I bought frozen yoghurt to rekindle the tastes of Greece. Nothing like it, I'm afraid. I routinely make a sort-of spinach pie in the way of a quiche, i.e. all the ingredients of a spinach pie but with a pastry bottom. It is really lovely.

I normally don't eat ice cream. I used to eat Greek yoghurt but a Greek friend of mine told me it is not as good in North America, so I stopped eating it. (Something about too much fat and that the fat part contains too many hormones from lactating cows). She suggested I go to a Greek store and enquire where they get their Greek yoghurt, assuming they sell it of course.

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Oct 29, 2013 09:19AM exbrnxgrl wrote:

painterly,

You can find organic, low/no fat yoghurt in many stores though it probably won't taste exactly like what you ate in Greece. Still, it's quite good.

Momine,

I was a Peace Corps volunteer and the last English teacher for Ariana Afghan Airlines. It was an amazing experience that shaped who I am today. I love Afghanistan and am broken hearted over what's happened there over the last 30+ years.

Caryn

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Aromasin (exemestane)
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Oct 29, 2013 10:20AM abigail48 wrote:

Yeah, me too about afghanistan, never got there while it was still there, got to greece though, in 1961, hitched there with my lover, now former husband, from denmark to karistos. lived there a month with the petrakis family. a very fond memory

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Oct 29, 2013 12:57PM Momine wrote:

Painterly, dang! You should have come by for a coffee ;) If you want to try making a Greek spinach pie, try the following. This is not made with a phyllo dough, but a more country-style crust.

Dough:

1 cup sparkling water

1/2 cup olive oil

1/2 teaspoon salt

Enough whole-wheat flour to make a kneadable dough - a little less than a pound.

Knead the dough till elastic and leave to rest while you make the filling.

Filling:

Defrost 2 lbs spinach and squeeze as much water out of it as you can.

Chop an onion and a few cloves of garlic and saute in olive oil till translucent. Add in spinach. Add a large handful of chopped, fresh dill. You can also add a little fresh mint, if you like it. Take off heat.

Beat two eggs with about 3-4 oz of Greek yogurt. Chop up about 3-4 oz of feta. Mix the egg/yogurt stuff and the cheese well with the spinach.

Get out a large, round tin (12 inches) and oil it with olive oil. Roll out half the dough and let it hang over the sides. Add filling. Top with the other half of the dough rolled out. Seal edges, trim and fold onto the pie. Cut 4-5 holes in top for steam. Bake 45-60 minutes at 375. During baking it is a good idea to roll up a piece of kitchen paper and soak up any excess liquid bubbling out of the holes. When it is nicely browned all over, remove from oven. Let it cool on a rack for about 10 minutes, then slide it out of the tin (gently) and leave it to cool some more. It is good both hot and cold. If you don't have spinach, you can use 5 leeks, sliced, cleaned and cooked down (to get rid of liquid and to make them tender) along with all the other ingredients.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Oct 29, 2013 12:57PM Momine wrote:

Bronx, that is really cool. Afghanistan is by all accounts an amazing place.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Oct 29, 2013 08:45PM painterly wrote:

Momine,

Thanks for the recipe.

I note that for the filling you use 2 eggs plus the yoghurt whereas I use 5 eggs minus the yoghurt but all the other ingredients that you use. I am due to make a spinach pie on Thursday so I will try your version. Sounds lovely. I will let you know how I find the difference between your filling and mine!

And how interesting the way you make your pastry. With olive oil as a fat! I have to try that.

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Oct 29, 2013 08:46PM painterly wrote:

Exbronx,

Thanks for the tip about the yoghurt.

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Oct 30, 2013 08:49AM Momine wrote:

Painterly, don't forget some salt and pepper. I forgot to write that. I experimented quite a bit after DX with ways to make this kind of crust with olive oil. A friend, who has a restaurant nearby, taught me the trick with the sparkling water and more oil than I had been using.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Oct 31, 2013 08:40PM jessica749 wrote:

oh- glad I asked my stupid question, if only to have my mind momentarily taken away from the themes at hand and to be transported...to far away lands. Also, to learn a bit about the interesting lives we lead separate from this affliction. Cool exbrxgrl. And momine. Thanks ladies.

Dx 1/17/2010, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Nov 1, 2013 04:23AM Momine wrote:

Jessica, I agree that it is good to remember that we have other stuff going on besides the stupid cancer.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Oct 5, 2017 04:42AM NikkiNoo wrote:

Jane admits that she had relapsed her vegan diet before getting this reoccurrence. She resumed her vegan diet and the lump disappeared. She was once again in remission. Several years later she died of blood clot caused by medication she was on. She was 71. I believe she survivedalmost 25 years from first diagnosis. A very inspirational lady. I am following her diet plan after being diagnosed with endometrial cancer stage 4 grade 3. Stage 4 because it spread to my brain. My daughter (age 20) has been vegan for about 5 years and my sister for 2 years. My other daughter has been veggie for 2 years. The dairy products now available in the UK are unrecognisable from what we consumed pre-1920’s. Meat is the same. I understand meat production is worse in the US and Canada.

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Oct 5, 2017 11:57AM Momine wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeat...

When she first switched to the vegan diet, she also did chemo, according to the above article. When she had a relapse again, she went on letrozole (and resumed her vegan diet), as noted elsewhere in this thread. Perhaps the diet helped or perhaps it didn't. It is impossible to tell from the available evidence.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Oct 22, 2017 07:33PM Michelle49 wrote:

I didn't know she had passed. I read her book a while ago and I thought it was full of good information supported by plenty of research. It also contains stories of her personal struggles and insights. So I had to glean the objective information and separate it from the subjective aspects.

She did cheat on her plant program diet as I understand from that link by OP. From what I understand she attributed the growth of the tumor to the lapse and reduced it with the combination of going back to her strict diet and medication. I guess when she said that "now that I got a recurrence and am again in remission proves that my diet works", she meant that if she followed it strictly in the first place, there wouldn't be tumor GROWTH. As for the effectiveness of the diet in tumor REDUCTION, it looks to me it wasn't enough. But reading through her medical history and the severity of her diagnosis, her surviving it for 30 years is something to behold. I remember the story of the 2 servings of low fat yogurt that she gave up. She advocated not just giving up dairy but following a plant based diet, among other things. One of the hardest things in life is to have willpower and discipline. Even in her case, she knew what to avoid. In the end though, she was cancer free.

The one point she made that I still remember is the stuff about IGF-1. I found a research article related to it which was pretty convincing to me. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC31413...I brought this up with my MO and he said that IGF-1 is highly related to insulin and blood glucose levels and that cancer is not necessarily correlated to oral intake of foods that already have IGF-1 in it like dairy (which Plant proposed). It just so happens that some dairy is highly insulinotropic. I'm only understanding this now after all this time.



Dx 9/11/2014, IDC, 1cm, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 10/8/2014 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel Chemotherapy 11/23/2014 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Radiation Therapy Whole-breast: Breast Hormonal Therapy Femara (letrozole)
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Dec 13, 2017 02:38AM Amelia01 wrote:

An old study but recently spoken about in various articles on the www that concerns fermented milk products and gouda cheese. When I consume cheese, I'll reach for the Gouda. I guess the same beneficial MK4 can be found in Natto (shudder) so cheese it will be. I also came across a chart of other foods with high MK4 and goose liver pate is high on the list! Hmmmm... maybe just a tablespoon for the holidays.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2736542

Dx 10/17/2017, ILC/IDC, Left, 6cm+, 17/21 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 11/6/2017 Chemotherapy Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Taxol (paclitaxel)
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Dec 13, 2017 08:45AM Momine wrote:

I have seen several references over the years about the beneficial effects of fermented dairy products.

Dx 6/1/2011, ILC, 5cm, Stage IIIB, Grade 2, 7/23 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 6/20/2011 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Left, Right Radiation Therapy 1/9/2012 Surgery 3/8/2012 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 4/1/2012 Femara (letrozole)
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Dec 20, 2020 03:04AM Ashleyn9 wrote:

I definitely agree. I wish I knew this about Jane plant before I bought her book. How has your diet been going? Do you know of any experiences I could look up or connect with who have and are successfully using a plant based diet to combat cancer? Would love to hear some hopeful stories

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Dec 20, 2020 09:51AM exbrnxgrl wrote:

ashley,

This thread has been inactive for a bit more than 3 years. If this is a topic that interests you you may want to consider starting new thread

Bilateral mx 9/7/11 with one step ns reconstruction. As of 11/21/11, 2cm met to upper left femur Dx 7/8/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/7/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Dx 11/2011, IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, 1/15 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 11/21/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy 11/21/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 6/19/2014 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy Aromasin (exemestane)
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Dec 20, 2020 01:19PM YesIamaDragon wrote:

As a near life-long vegetarian teetotaler who has always maintained a healthy weight, exercised regularly and meditated daily (up to 2 hours a day)* I have to roll my eyes at people who think they can cure their breast cancer by doing what I have always done. I mean, if it didn't prevent my breast cancer, how would it cure it? I am all for reducing risk wherever possible and am a big proponent of a balanced plant-based diet, but this sort of stuff seems just as victim-blamey as the "you weren't enough of a warrior/you didn't think enough positive thoughts" crowd.

All that being said, I am still clinging to my nearly dairy-free dark chocolate and my husband's fabulous him-made yoghurt. Never have been totally dairy free.



* oh yeah, and no family history or genetic mutations associated with increased risk, either

Dx 6/2019, IDC, Right, 2cm, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2+ Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole) Radiation Therapy Targeted Therapy Kadcyla (T-DM1, ado-trastuzumab) Surgery Chemotherapy Carboplatin (Paraplatin), Taxotere (docetaxel) Targeted Therapy Perjeta (pertuzumab) Targeted Therapy Herceptin (trastuzumab)
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Jan 8, 2021 05:53PM VioletKali wrote:

Samesies.... DX at age 31, 3 weeks prior to my 32nd Birthday.

My tumor was 1.7cm, 10% of it was noted to be DCIS. No family history of cancer at all. Discontinued Chemo d/t uncontrollable side effects which caused hospitalizations, blood transfusions, and poor quality of life. I am doing well! Dx 6/19/2014, DCIS, Stage 0 Dx 6/19/2014, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/10 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+ Surgery 8/17/2014 Mastectomy: Left; Prophylactic mastectomy: Right; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Targeted Therapy 9/14/2014 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Chemotherapy 9/14/2014 Carboplatin (Paraplatin), Taxotere (docetaxel)

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