Posted on: Jul 11, 2019 09:32AM - edited Jul 11, 2019 09:41AM by Jons_girl
Hi. I wasn't sure if anyone had seen this link or would be interested in it. But I'm sharing it as it surprised me. I dodrink no sugar added fruit juice. And apparently that too has risks regarding breast cancer risk if I read the study right.
The article written on the study is below
Just sharing the study. I am not a expert on knowing about this stuff. I realize 22% isn’t high but it’s a risk none the less. And that’s with drinking less than a whole can of pop.
Posts 1 - 30 (39 total)
Jul 11, 2019 05:17PM - edited Jul 11, 2019 05:18PM by Jons_girl
I am not sure what you are referring to. I understood they do link sugary drinks to cancer in this study....even though there may not be a known reason why. It is still connected somehow because that is what the study was for. It isn't a surprise to me they found this.
Jul 11, 2019 06:46PM Beesie wrote:
So even pure fruit juice may increase breast cancer risk. More than alcohol, based on many of the alcohol studies I've read. Woohoo, I'll stick with wine then.
But that said, as wallycat points out, while this study found that women who drank pure juice had a slightly higher rate of breast cancer, this is an observation, not a cause and effect. Correlation is not causation.
CNN: "This study is observational and doesn't show cause and effect".
BMJ: "Finally, this is an observational study, thus causality of the observed associations cannot be established and residual confounding cannot be entirely ruled out."
So, any guesses on how long it will be before another study comes out telling us that pure juice is the best thing ever for our health and reduces breast cancer risk?
Jul 11, 2019 09:06PM santabarbarian wrote:
many people think cancer is a metabolic disease...
Jul 12, 2019 10:37AM countdooku wrote:
It's a correlational study. So there's a correlation between people who drink sugary drinks and people who develop cancer. But you can't say scientifically that drinking that stuff CAUSES cancer. There could be an intermediary thing causing it...or something else related to drinking sugar.
Jul 12, 2019 11:03AM Scrafgal wrote:
Estrogen, for example, could be the mediating factor and more relevant for er positive tumors.
Even if there were a definite study that were causa, some would still not give up alcohol. We all choose to take different risks in life. I think that the OP was simply sharing info that she felt might enlighten others.
Jul 12, 2019 04:47PM Beesie wrote:
Scrafgal, this study was not about alcohol (although the title of the thread isn't clear on that).
It was about sugary beverages (soft drinks, for example), 100% fruit juice, and artificially sweetened beverages (diet soft drinks, for example).
It seems that only the latter category, the artificially sweetened beverages, are not associated with an increased risk of breast cancer.
So let's break out the Diet Coke and stop drinking all fruit juice now. Or not.
Jul 12, 2019 05:17PM - edited Jul 12, 2019 05:18PM by Scrafgal
gotcha...I still consume wine occasionally and pure juice...It's a risk that I choose to take...The sugar thing is likely related obesity as a mediator. I just try to keep it simple. You can make yourself neurotic trying to avoid everything purported to be a cause of cancer. We are all breathing toxic air and are exposed to toxic water. What's a girl to do besides have an occasional glass if wine, piece of chocolate or glass of juice!
Jul 12, 2019 05:18PM Scrafgal wrote:
just had a dark chocolate square. Yum!
Jul 12, 2019 05:33PM Scrafgal wrote:
and, yes...I know that the chocolate gave me a temporary estrogen boost...so be it...I am living on the edge today;)
Jul 12, 2019 05:50PM santabarbarian wrote:
A lot of people hide behind the 'correlation is not causation" thing.... But *where* are all the studies are that correlate lower rates of BC for people who are obese, eat nitrites, don't exercise, and binge drink....?
That's right, there are none.
Lets accept the obvious... healthier diets make healthier people
Jul 12, 2019 06:09PM Scrafgal wrote:
Totally agree...santabarbarian...those excessive situations and habits you listed would create a higher likelihood for poor health!
Jul 12, 2019 06:28PM exbrnxgrl wrote:
Yes, healthier diets do tend to make healthier people and we should all try to eat well, but it is a guarantee of nothing! I am not urging folks to lead an unhealthy lifestyle, just to understand that dietary compulsion and habits are not the end all and be all. By all means, enjoy a drink, alcohol or juice, a bit of chocolate or whatever. I firmly believe that the pleasure we get from good food, drink and friends/family is also good medicine!
* Please don’t misinterpret this post. I am not suggesting that ones entire, or even majority, diet consist of apple juice, chocolate, wine and hamburgers. Just supporting healthy habits that are not compulsive, allow for indulgence and remove the worry about everything that goes into your mouth!
Jul 12, 2019 06:43PM Scrafgal wrote:
here, here. All the organic food eating, non red meat eating, pilates, cardio workouts, weightlifting and filtered water drinking didn't spare me from this damned disease...but I know that it was not a wasted effort. My heart, liver and kidneys were in great health and, for what it's worth, allowed me to get the recommended treatment for my aggressive tumor and to bounce back from the treatments. At least that's what my medical team told me:)
Jul 12, 2019 06:50PM - edited Jul 12, 2019 06:52PM by Beesie
santabarbarian, you hit it. Healthier diets make healthier people. That we know. It's when we dig under the covers on this and try to find cause and effect between specific foods and specific diseases, that we often run into trouble.
What's also less clear is what constitutes a "healthy" diet. Based on this latest study, if breast cancer is the concern, it seems we should be imbibing in diet soda rather than pure fruit juice. Does that really make sense? Especially since other studies have shown a correlation between diet soda and heart health risk, and more women die of heart disease than breast cancer. What about coffee? Half the studies say it's good for your health, and half the studies say it's bad for your health. Or let's talk alcohol, the most controversial of all. Moderate alcohol consumption is correlated to a small increase in breast cancer risk but is also correlated to improved heart health.
So what's a girl to do? My choice is to not take any of these studies seriously. And when I read a study, I take note of when it's mentioned that no cause and effect has been proven because that puts the study into a different category than one where there is a proven and statistically significant cause and effect. Honestly, I think if I tried to apply to myself every study related to diet and breast cancer, I'd be spinning in circles and I'd drive myself crazy. I do find some of the studies to be interesting, while others are more amusing (I'd put this study in the amusing category). As for my "healthy diet", I use common sense. I eat a balanced diet, with an emphasis on fruits and veggies. I choose to not deprive myself of foods I enjoy, such as meat, wine, cheese and dessert. Nothing I've ever read suggests to me that I will be significantly healthier by cutting these items out of my diet, versus consuming them in small quantities and moderation. I'm probably just as healthy, and I'm certainly happier.
Oh, and I never deprive myself of dark chocolate.
Jul 12, 2019 06:58PM - edited Jul 12, 2019 06:59PM by Scrafgal
Here, here, Beesie! I actually cannot process red meat anymore. I was forced to give it up 25 years ago. My midwestern family still gives me a crazy look at family dinners when I pass on the red meat!
Jul 13, 2019 12:52AM AliceBastable wrote:
One of my coworkers had breast cancer the same year I had endometrial cancer. We're both a bit chunky, and our cancers were low stage and grade. Another co-worker, a thin, vegan exercise buff, got pancreatic cancer at the same time and died less than six months later. And another co-worker who had previously had breast cancer was a tiny little salad-eater. She had a later recurrence and has died since. So overall, healthy eating may be good for you in many ways, but it's certainly not a guarantee that crap won't happen.
Jul 13, 2019 01:44AM voraciousreader wrote:
When I see these studies I ask myself, “How are the data collected?” Self reported, I often suspect, which makes the data unreliable. Most people will not keep accurate food diaries nor will they log the info, for long durations. I speak from experience. The DH has a very rare, genetic metabolic disorder which requires following a very strict diet. He is in a clinical trial for more than a decade. He is required to submit a week long diary every six months. I can say with certainty that the week long diary, while accurate for that one week, is not PRECISELY indicative of what he eats during that six month period although his diet is very simple. Take, for example, your average person and just try to get a handle on what they eat and how much....very problematic. Each day the dH measures and weighs his food.
Now you understand why I dismiss such studies?
And, finally, my older sister weighs close to 100 lbs more than me and doesn’t exercise. I am the breast cancer patient.
Sisters, do what I do. Ignore those dietary studies....
Jul 13, 2019 09:06AM Beesie wrote:
VR, what I'll add to your comment is that not only do most people not keep accurate food diaries, it's also human nature that some people might tweak the amounts just a bit, over-stating the quantities consumed of what they think would be considered the 'good stuff' and under-stating what they think might be 'bad' foods.
Those two glasses of wine 5 nights a week becomes 1 glass of wine 3 nights a week... and then the study comes back finding that even very moderate/occasional consumption of alcohol increases risk.
And diet sodas? Rarely drink the stuff. But pure juice is good for you, right? So yeah, I drink a glass of OJ every morning... but in reality maybe it's diet soda at lunch every day and OJ occasionally at breakfast.
Meat? Never more than a 4 ounce serving... never mind that honking big BBQ'd steak last night.
Yup, you've got to take these studies with a grain of salt... but don't mention all that salt in the diary because it's not good for you, you know.
Jul 13, 2019 09:17AM - edited Jul 13, 2019 09:36AM by Scrafgal
Alice... to your point, researchers have been trying to explain the so-called obesity paradox for years. Regarding cancer, it seems that mildly overweight to obese people get slower growing tumors while thinner folks get fewer tumors overall but when they get a tumor it is very aggressive. I see this paradox in my own family. My aunt is 87, smoked, drank, never exercised, still eats sweets and is overweight significantly. Does she have diabetes? Yes...managed for over 20 years. Joint replacements? Absolutely...Cancer? Not a lick (at least nothing that has been detected). Her sister, who has always been a total health nut, is 72 and just finished battling colon cancer. She never drank or smoked her entire life. Exercises etc. Go figure.
There's more to cancer development than can be explained by unhealthy habits.
Jul 13, 2019 09:40AM Scrafgal wrote:
I read a recent hypothesis that has yet to be tested: Healthier folks have stronger immune systems that tend to kill mild tumors before they develop into cancer. So, the timors that survive those healthy immune systems are the bolder, aggressive ones. Less healthy, overweight people have weaker immune systems so those slow growing, less aggressive tumors turn cancerous but are more treatable. Interesting hypothesis!
Jul 13, 2019 11:15AM santabarbarian wrote:
Scrafgal that seems intuitively right.
I fall on the other side of the food line... I had TNBC and that's a fast-recurring, often-lethal cancer. I did not want to F around. So though I do permit myself infrequent "treats" like a few fries off my friend's plate or a rare alcoholic drink, I mostly eat zero alcohol, sugar, flour and very small amounts of animal product, favoring fish. Mostly veggies, fruits and nuts. I probably eat more dairy than I should, but... all organic and I keep my fat to <20% Also I do intermittent fasting (generally only eat between 11 am and 9 pm). I work out 5 x week with either a hike or pilates. This has all become routine and does not feel like a major effort anymore.
There ARE scientifically-validated studies that show much lower rates of recurrence in people who eat less than 20% of calories from fat, maintain a largely whole foods diet, and exercise 3-6 hours/week. Better and more regular sleep patterns also relevant to fighting cancer. Low blood sugar relevant. Superior nutrition in a soils-depleted era is likely to make nutritional supplements essential. I was low D though I eat dairy and live in southern California and am outside.
My regime is no guarantee of long life.... but if I have to say goodbye to my kids prematurely, i want to be able to tell them I did absolutely everything I could to raise my odds. Meanwhile, I feel fantastic.
Jul 13, 2019 12:11PM - edited Jul 13, 2019 12:12PM by voraciousreader
among the saddest things that I have seen here on this website is reading about those sisters who muse about why they got cancer and what they should be doing differently in the future to avoid revisiting this disease....
If you spend time deep thinking about the why and what you should be doing differently, then you will be missing time enjoying living...Notice I used the word “living and not the word “life." As Erich Fromm great book, The Art of Loving, describes how to love, he uses the word “loving" and not “love". Love and life are nouns. Loving and living are verbs. Verbs require action.
What is “life," a noun, like after a cancer diagnosis? For many of us it requires hard work. Treatment takes up so much of our physical and emotional energy and precious time. It cuts into our “living." So, if we spend whatever time in our days and our lifetime absorbed in our cancer's diagnosis, then the cancer impedes our time for living...
Every day, I choose not to lament about what I may have done wrong to have gotten cancer. Every day I make a conscious choice to not worry about what it is I need to do differently so I don't revisit this disease. It is not an easy task to do both. It requires work. But, after almost ten years, the load of work has diminished and enjoying living has become a little easier. Not easy, but easier...
If and when the times come that I do revisit this disease, I will NOT blame the victim. For all we do know about cancer, we still know little. For me, I choose to ignore these types of studies. In the scheme of life they are meaningless and only serve one thing and that is to make us feel guilty about doing something “suspect." I will never feel the least bit criminal by enjoying a glass of wine or eating an extra spoonful of whatever...Cancer be damned...
Jul 13, 2019 12:32PM Scrafgal wrote:
That makes sense, santabarbarian. I never want cancer again and, for that reason, I continue to maintain healthy habits. We have to do everything that makes us feel safe in achieving our goals.
This reminds me of the discussion that occurred on the thread about textured implants. Although the risk of getting the implant-related lymphoma is small, since I was having my final reconstructive surgery 8 weeks ago, I decided to have imy textured implant replaced with a smooth one. Personally, I could not live with knowing that it was even possible that I decided to put something in me that could cause cancer. There is no amount of small risk that was small enough, given that I had a viable alternative. Some women would suggest that my replacement was an overreaction, but I have to live my life in a way that makes me feel safer. I have been on the wrong side of treatment odds (my hair never came back after chemo). Very small likelihood events can occur. So, in the end, it was a risk I didn't choose to take but I understand that women who love their textured implants want to keep them. It's a personal choice that is driven by their risk tolerance.
On the other hand, some women suggest that any foreign object--even my smooth implant--presents a risk. I understand that fact but I am choosing to take that risk because I cannot psychologically deal with being flat. Some women are totally fine with going flat and feel good about it. I can't relate but I can respect it.
Everybody on this website has to do whatever it takes to help us cope and feel secure, given that none us us want to get cancer again. So, in the end, we all deserve respect for our choices. So more power to you, santababarian! I am hoping for the best outcomes for you and all of us!
Jul 13, 2019 07:12PM edwards750 wrote:
I do/eat everything in moderation. I don’t abstain from anything. If I want a cookie I have one or ice cream. Not a zillion cookies and not everyday. I drink beer and I have a few when my husband and I have our date night or we go to a party, etc. That’s not an every day thing either.
I don’t really care why I got it. It’s likely my sister who also has BC and I have the gene because our mother had it. Regardless we drew the unlucky card. My sister didn’t drink, eat sugar, she exercised and ate healthy and has now had her second recurrence.
I know friends who were the epitome of health who got BC. My oncologist said they don’t really know why some women get it and others don’t.
To each her own but I’m going to enjoy life as much as I can the way I want to scientific studies or not.
Jul 13, 2019 09:14PM RadagastRabbit wrote:
I read this article on yahoo today and all it seemed to do for me is exactly what voraciousreader described...make me beat myself up. As someone who progressed from Stage 2 to 4 in less than a yr, I find myself going back over and over again to what I could of done differently...maybe I shouldn't of eaten comfort foods while in the infusion chair even tho it was all I could do to prevent myself from running screaming from the infusion room, maybe I indulged in one too many rootbeer floats to soothe a sore mouth and cheer myself up when things got really hard, I should have cooked better than thrown together casseroles because I had little energy for anything else while in treatment, and I really failed to get those 8 hrs of sleep in....I crawled on my hands and knees to get over that finish line of chemo and it wasn't enough....Maybe if I had rubbed some kale on myself I would of gotten better...
I find myself sitting in an oncologist's office often lately and the waiting room which is quite large is always jammed full of people: young/old, thin/overweight, Cancer is pretty indiscriminate, it is very much a mixed bag in that room everytime I am there. The common thing I hear from everyone I strike up a conversation with while in that waiting room is "I was doing everything right I thought and then I got Cancer...".
I did the best I could with what I had...I progressed...It's not my fault. When I was in the middle of my second set of chemo, a lady sat next to me and was very chatty and said hello, lovely thin woman, quite beautiful. She asked me how I was doing, I told her hanging in there. We got to talking and I discovered she was a breast cancer patient like me...only she was Stage 4 de novo and had been fighting for 2 yrs. She described to me everywhere her cancer had spread, including 7 lesions in her brain, if I listed everywhere else it was I would need a small paragraph. she was waiting to get test results to see if gamma knife had worked and to start a new chemo line...I mostly sat attentively listening while simultaneously in shock. Before we could finish talking my husband had arrived in the waiting room with lunch to take with us to the infusion room and her name got called to go back to get her results....
I think of her often as a symbol of how horrific this disease is and I often wish I could of gone back in time to have been able to encourage her. I never thought I'd join the club soon after. We need a cure. Not guilt trips.
Jul 13, 2019 09:34PM AliceBastable wrote:
Sadly, we are a self-flagellating society, obsessed with picking the scabs of our own - and each other's - flaws. Personally, I think guilt is overrated.
Jul 15, 2019 12:28AM Christinadukie wrote:
I was reading your ladies'posts. I lost my mother to breast cancer at 51. She smoked and had other risk factors, etc. Bottom line she did NOTHING to cause it. Someone could have all her risk factors and be fine. I believe it's good to know what contributing factors there are for bc. And good to make good health choices. But, no one deserves or earns cancer. Wishing you ladies the best.
Jul 15, 2019 09:25AM claireinaz wrote:
Ladies, I feel compelled to jump in. I look at the "why" from a technology perspective and then I leave it in my rear view mirror. We wound up with b.c. because of a bit flip. One piece of data got turned on in a cell, and we really honestly don't know why. There are women who have the BRCA gene, and it never develops into cancer. There are overweight women who never get cancer. There are drinkers who never get cancer. There are thin people who never get cancer, etc etc ad nauseum. Radiation fallout victims (me--1962-above ground nuclear test fallout from the NV test site blowing west to east into No. Az) who never get cancer. Vegans who never get cancer, meat eaters who never get cancer, smokers who don't get cancer.
We got "gifted" (ha ha) a cell whose "bit" got flipped on, and it developed into cancer. I've finally realized after some years it isn't important why I got b.c. I refuse to blame my body, a body that works pretty well, and I refuse to blame myself, because I'm a good person who just found herself under the b.c. umbrella.
Apply some basic healthy habits (we know what they are) and let the rest go. Gosh, we are all great women (and men) who wound up here, and we are all doing the freaking best we can to care for ourselves. We ARE enough, and don't need to self-flagellate for a disease that is still, in many ways, pretty mysterious.
Big love to all of you. Now go do what brings you joy.
Jul 15, 2019 09:57AM edwards750 wrote:
It definitely serves no purpose to look for a reason why. Does it really matter? We all know people who drew the unlucky card and we are those people too.
I also think some of the healthy types who get BC resent the fact the so called unhealthy ones escape the disease.
My brother’s friend has heart issues mainly because his dad did and my brother asked him one time does he ever get resentful because this guy does live the healthy life and yet people he knows who don’t don’t have heart issues. Genetics or not no one is to blame. I don’t waste time wondering why and in fact never did. It’s pointless.
I do however, question why my sister has been inflicted with so much suffering and pain from BC and I have not. We had 2 different kinds of BC. Her’s was ILC and mine was IDC. I was DX in 2011. So far, so good for me but her’s just metastasized to her stomach. This is her second recurrence since being DX in 2012. We have the same mother who had BC in her late 60’s. She has passed away but not from BC.
It’s heartbreaking to know my sister is suffering. She just had her second round of chemo. Her hair is falling out and she needs a walker now. She is one who did live the healthy lifestyle. Me not so much.