Can we talk Sugar/Fresh Fruit and Carbs etc?

I have been Ned for 8 1/2 years and eat anything I want. Pasta, ice cream, chocolate, fruit, etc. I ate a ton of watermelon during chemo and one of my liver mets disappeared after a few rounds of taxotere & herceptin. Most longterm survivors will tell you the same thing. I wouldn’t stress so much over it and eat everything in moderation

Hi. Everyone here at Stage IV wants to live as long as possible. So I am guessing we look at ways to enhance our health and current meds, whether it be diet changes, supplements, exercise modifications or alternative meds.

I don't deprive myself of foods that bring me comfort. I have settled on moderation as Lauriesh noted above with reduced carbs, refined sugars and alcohol. I still love my coffee flavored peanut MMs and the occasionally glass of wine.

I do make an elixer of fresh lemon juice, ginger and garlic and I have added more walnuts to my diet. I don't know if these changes really help..maybe it is just psychological!

If you enjoy the research of making dietary adjustments, go for it and have fun exploring. You will know when it just exhausts and frustrates you. And who needs that? Ha.

S

Nicole,

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that you were now feeling less stressed over treats. If a restricted diet causes stress, especially stress created by violating the rules of your diet, then it’s not going to be helpin the long run. When I was trying to maintain a strict anti-cancer diet I got into more than a few arguments with my younger dd every time I “cheated”. I can’t tell you how much things improved when I returned to a simple, moderate diet and allowed myself to eat anything I wanted. Of course this doesn’t mean I’m existing on Oreos, soda and chips and I’m fairly certain that none of the others who responded do either!

Eating is also a great social occasion and it’s much more relaxing to go to a restaurant or be a guest at someone’s home and not worry about every bite that you put in your mouth. Yes, we all want to live as long as possible but personally, I want to enjoy my life and not spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about everything that might cause my bc to progress. That is far more stressful for me, but I understand that it may be important to others, especially if it makes them feel that they are being active fighters.

I have/had the same question.

I am going to see a couple of professionals about it.

I have read "how to starve cancer " , may be I have read it not attentively enough - I still not understand what food the author deems good and bad.

I need to look more into glycemic index I reckon.

For now survival is my priority and I do not need cakes to enjoy life (although I love good quality ones and can eat them in huge quantities as I am naturally slim).

So the sweets were stopped. I would not stress if I had one every now and again but I just do not want it now- may be later. I was sorry to say bye to freshly squeezed orange juice - I would usually have a couple of glasses a week.

Alcohol never was my thing although I could enjoy a drink every now and again but I do not miss cutting it at all.

Bread, white rice , potatoes and white pasta went. I kind of miss them but not too much. I reverted to ryvita crackers and chickpea/wholemeal ones but even with those I try to minimise them.

Not much meat either but we have tried minimising it for a while. Diary only goat/sheep.

I eat much more often my favourite salad - tomato feta lettuce and avocado with ryvita. I always loved it , I probably should eat it every day but I kind of eat with family as well - I think I will eat it more often.

Trying to leave 16 hours free of food. I must be so stressed I do not want to eat much now. I honestly do not feel or look stressed but something must have clicked inside me - mind , I knew we should be decreasing portions even before diagnosis. Now I eat far less and I am still fine. Losing weight though... hopefully it will stop.

Glad to hear watermelon is ok - I think when glycemic index is discussed it can be a bit misleading because it does not take into account some other properties of food like typical size of portions - I need to read more on it. Watermelon is 98% water so I fail to see how it can be harmful because although his total dry matter content is sugar there is just so little dry matter in it . I stand to be corrected though.

Sandibeach,

I like the idea of finding your comfort zone! I also apologize to those of you trying to live sugar free, carb free etc. I am a terrible example, I’m afraid, but I have no stress over what I put in my mouth and I am comfortable. Again, I eat a largely vegetarian diet, love fruits and veg, don’t drink soda or eat fast food, am not overweight, rarely drink alcoholic. But... these were my eating habits before dx as well. And, I truly have no idea why I have done so well. Who knows 🤷🏻♀️

We also buy nitrite/nitrate free uncured bacon, deli meat and hotdogs.

I drink lots of water, too. Sometimes with lemon. It is a good idea for everyone, not just those with cancer. It's generally my go-to drink.

I drink one cup of coffee a day in the morning and have been for 30 years. I get far less headaches with this routine. I use organic milk and one packet of Stevia.

If you read the book “The Blue Zones", its about 7 areas around the world where people live the longest. One unifying factor is many eat more large amounts of fruits and vegetables and nuts than meat. They are also social and stay active tho not obsessively so.

Nicole, I remember being afraid of food that first year I was diagnosed, so I understand your concerns. I didn't know if I was poisoning myself. The book “AntiCancer" by David Servan‑Schreiber. Is a good read, too, giving some dietary as well as other advice.

For many reasons, I'm not a huge fan of researching the internet for information. My preferred method is to read good, informative, well researched books written (mostly) by doctors or experts in their field. Not dry, boring books, either. They have to be readable and interesting and written in layman's terms. We can't always confirm something on the internet is coming from a reliable source. A book delves deeper and gives a more comprehensive view into the subject matter.

Books like: “Mind Over Medicine” and “Radical Remission” as well as the others I’ve mentioned, gave me good insight and I benefitted from reading them more than doing choppy internet searches. While the books touch on diet, they also discuss other aspects of our life in relationship to what we are experiencing. That appeals to my senses, as they address the whole person, which is really what the basis of holistic medicine is. I most definitely put a lot of faith in traditional medicine yet we can find additional ways to treat our whole selves.

Had to chime in to say “grain free granola" is delicious just like some regular granola is, but most that I've seen have added sugar. They might be “paleo" and use coconut sugar but they aren't keto and probably not low carb either due to sugars.

I choose my way of eating not so much because I think it will cure my cancer but because I absolutely have to keep my weight down and I do have to restrict certain things in order to do that. Portion control is important, but having lost a large amount of post menopausal weight before my diagnosis, I know what worked to get me out of plateaus etc. so I need to stick to that as much as possible.

I do limit fruit, I did Nutrisystem and even they, being a very conventional diet plan and not at all keto, recommend unlimited vegetables but very limited amounts of fruit for weight loss.

Even so, half a banana at breakfast or half an apple won't “upset the apple cart" 😉 very much even for me

One dietary change that I did make upon my initial mets diagnosis 13 years ago was that I started buying only organic milk (I use fat free), and mostly organic fruit and veggies. and also I pretty much stopped eating any kind of red meat. With chicken, I looked for antibiotic-free chicken (now much easier to find, thankfully) and for a number of years, I stuck with only chicken and fish or turkey. I do wonder if that kept me NED for so many years. As the years went on, though, I started adding back in red meat -- mostly careful about where I got it, but not always. I also added in hot dogs (mostly turkey) and some other favorite foods like salami. I do wonder if that played a part in my recent second mets diagnosis.

As for sweets, I have to say that for the year before this second mets diagnosis, I was pretty vigilant and tried to stay away from sweets, with only an occasional scoop of ice cream or a cookie here and there. For the first time in my life, I also exercised regularly in that year before the diagnosis. But look at me! Didn't help, I guess, because I was diagnosed again.

Long story short -- I think avoid some obvious things ((like processed meats) and try to eat healthfully.

Bev

I’m one year out and the first year I was afraid to put anything into my mouth that might contribute to cancer. Never had red meat , sugar , dairy, alcohol , grains , you name it. I was strictly Keto but without all the bacon and meat , cheese ect. I ate a Lot of veg , soup , looked up Keto breads ect. It was good in the beginning in that I feel it really helped. I became NED very quickly , but I was also miserable at my lack of options. I still eat very healthy but I have incorporated bananas and apples back in as well as sweet potato, quinoa , and Ezekiel bread.

I always pair anything that is a bit higher In sugar (like apples and banana) with a protein or fat. So usually peanut or nut butter with hemp seeds or chia. Adding those can help with any spikes in insulin and keep sugar levels more mellow. So there’s always that. I always feel better when I do it that way.

I have eased up in that sometimes I’ll have a handful of chips , where I wouldn’t dare last year , or take some sips of my husbands beer. I feel a lot more relaxed and less deprived that way. I was honestly getting miserable thinking about Everything I put in my mouth. It was taking enjoyment out of eating for me, and I absolutely love to eat (you’d never tell by looking at me)

I agree, there’s so much conflicting info that it can be so confusing and stressful to navigate it all . You just don’t know what’s totally right. I suggest doing what you feel is best for your body and feeling really good about it

I am also on the relax and enjoy (mostly healthy) eating pathway. I also find information on the whole sugar thing conflicting and have researched this a lot in connection with BC. I do a lot of complementary treatments and am willing to try anything that works. I have been told since birth that sugar is "bad" by my parents. I grew up in a very strict, vegan, organic, macrobiotic household in my early childhood years. There was a lot of guilt associated with eating anything that was not within the macrobiotic parameters and sugar was the worst offender. It kind of messed me up when I became an adolescent and I developed a slightly unhealthy relationship with food. I no longer restrict any food or food groups and go by the "everything is okay in moderation" and "eat a mostly healthy diet but do eat a small to moderate amount of sweets or chips or pizza or whatever else if/when you crave it". I eat as much organic as I can, consume milk, yogurt (kefir actually) and butter that is not only organic but only from whole milk and grass-fed cows, eat a lot of healthy, plant-based fats, try to keep as much variety and vegetables in my diet and eat whole grains mostly rather than white starches. With fruit, there are so many antioxidants, powerful nutrients, anti-inflammatory properties and other healing powers, I am wagering on the side of the bet that those benefits are helping me more than the sugar from such fruit is harming me as far as breast cancer is concerned. Of course, none of us knows for sure but this has been my educated guess. As an example of how I think about this (on a somewhat unrelated, non-cancer issue), I had oral thrush a while back from one of my BC treatments. It was so painful, I was having trouble sleeping and normal home remedies that usually work were not working. I then did a bunch of research and read pineapple helped with this and gave it a shot. I was very suspicious of this as sugar is supposed to be "bad" for fungal infections as it "feeds" the fungus and pineapple contains a lot of sugar. Well, the pineapple was a miracle. Within a day, the pain was gone and the thrush was gone in 2 days. All I did was rub pieces of pineapple on the insides of my cheek where the thrush was located once a day. Yes, sugar is bad for fungal infections. However, the power of the bromelain enzyme in pineapple to zap the fungus far outweighs the sugar factor. Also, although sugar is considered "inflammatory", pineapple, papaya, grapes, cherries, many other berries and many other fruits are anti-inflammatory. I wish we knew for sure exactly the best way to eat. However, for now, this is my educated guess.

great to know about the pineapple and thrush jFL! That’s what we would call “a clinical pearl.” 😃

Nichole - so glad you are taking this all in. I think if adhering to a strict diet induces a ton of stress and anxiety, then perhaps this is not the best choice for someone.

At this point in my life, I am working to remain as calm and free from stress as I possibly can. I am incredibly sensitive (emotionally and energetically) and I can get stressed out easily just by some lunatic calling me nasty names on the streets (yes can happen often in Philly, unfortunately). My skin is not so thick and these kinds of things can bring me to tears or into a rage of anger and frustration and feeling helplessness and deep grief for the state of the world and violent conditions so many people are used to living in.

So - I can stress easily. If food is something that I can allow to be joyous in my life, then I am sooooo thrilled to have be so 🤗 hu

Philly, I am in full agreement with you about reducing stress. Although I do not think it causes cancer—(I know numerous people with far greater stress than I had who don't have cancer)—I do believe lowering stress can aide in healing. When I think back on all the ungodly shit that I used to put up with before and at the time I was diagnosed with mbc I wonder what the hell was I thinking. I tried to cover all the bases plus there were simply too many bases, I was spread way too thin. No doubt being an adult child of an alcoholic plus my other parent being mentally ill had a lot to do with my taking on too much. These days I pay a lot more attention to potential stressors and nip many of then in the bud before they start to fester.

Wow, Caryn, what a tragic and sobering story about your sister. I am so sorry for her and for you that you lost her so quickly. I can understand her bitterness. I know a few people personally who are overweight, overstressed and/or have smoked like a chimney their whole life that are my age or older who do not have a major health issue like me. Not that I lived a super clean life, but I wasn't abusive with food, was always active, very little alcohol and quit smoking over 30 years ago. I wouldn't say I'm bitter, it's just the unfairness of it. The randomness. It also really irritates me that someone like Steven Tyler of Aerosmith who says with the money he spent on all the coke he snorted up his nose he could have bought a small island in the Bahamas, is still out there livin' his best life. Ditto for some of those other rock stars like Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones.