How fast do Her2+ tumors grow?

Slainte - My tumor was barely a shadow on a screening mammo.  They called me back for additional views but said it was ok.  Fast-forward 15 months later and I felt the lump at over 2 cm.  So in 15 months it grew from undetectable to over 2 cm.  That seems pretty fast to me.  I think the Ki-67 gives an estimate of the number of cells within the tumor that are actively dividing at any given time if you had that measured with your biopsy.  This is an interesting topic.

markat - My surgeon also told me that mine probably started ~5 years earlier .... but they couldn't see it on mammo I guess.

There are different kinds of tumors with different markers and proliferation rates . Hormone positive tumors tend to be slow growing over years. However HER2 amplified tumors are typically rapid growing!

Hi, ladies. I hope you don't mind my joining the discussion even though I'm not Her2+, but rather Triple Negative. I've learned that Her2+ and Triple Negative women often have similar experiences.

I don't feel that breast cancer always takes years to develop. Sure, that is often the case if: the tumor is hormone positive, Grade 1, low Ki-67 score, and the patient is post-menopausal. But, for those of us who don't fit that description (or any part of it), we can often have very, very rapidly-developing tumors. I have a history of cysts and had my first mammogram at age 29. I had a second one at 33 and it was clear except for a couple of simple cysts. I found my lump by accident and even though I acted on it immediately, no doctor took me seriously because of my age (34 at the time last year) and a completely clear family history and clear mammogram a few months earlier. I knew in my heart that this was different than the cysts I'd dealt with and pushed for an excisional biopsy against the urging of my breast surgeon. He made me jump through hoops and wait a month and a day from the time I discovered the lump until he'd actually take it out. In that time, the lump went from only detectable when I was laying down, to a visible mass pushing against the skin of my breast when I looked at myself topless in the mirror. Approximately 10 days before I found the lump, I did a self exam and felt nothing. When you compare that with about 5 weeks later, being able to visibly see it, then I know it was growing like crazy. I had a Ki-67 score of 76% which is very high. To me, the myth that breast cancer always takes years to develop is akin to the harmful statement that doctors perpetuate about how breast cancer lumps don't hurt. It's untrue. Even my PCP who I went to the next day after finding it now tells me that had I listened to the radiologst's opinion to "come back in 6 months for repeat imaging", I'd likely have been seeking treatment before the 6 months for symptoms of metastatic breast cancer because it was so fast-growing.

I now tell every one I talk to about breast cancer that the idea of breast cancer being a slow-growing process is not always true for everyone.

I'm sorry for my intrusion on your topic. I strongly feel that if any of you ladies feel your tumor was fast-growing, then you're probably right. This is scary stuff.

LintRollerD,

You are absolutely right about triple negative BC being fast (and welcome to the thread ).  My friend had a clear mammogram but still felt something was wrong.  She nagged at her MD for several months before he sent her for another mammogram.  You guessed it : stage 3 triple negative BC.

She is now 5 years out from mastectomy, chemo and rads and is doing great.

I'm not sure if I had the ki-67 test, so I don't know those numbers. I think my er is 50%. I always get confused about my type of cancer because er+ is supposed to be *good* but her+ is bad and aggressive. I just take my tamoxifen and get my herceptin every 3 weeks and hope for the best

Hi, everyone, and thanks for the welcome.

lkc: Yup, I absolutely do think it's all about the type and subtype. I think it's also about the sub-subtype. I believe that helps explain why some ER+ cancers are quite aggressive and don't seem to behave like the traditional hormone-positive cancers tend to behave.

Sassa: I'm sorry to hear about your friend, but glad to hear she's doing great! I see you live in Homosassa. I was born and raised in Ocala and just moved to South Florida last month. Small world!

2miraclesmom: This stuff is so scary. I'm there with ya; I was 34 last year when diagnosed and had no family history. This garbage came out of nowhere, it seems.

markat: I could be wrong, but I beleive that Luminal B cancers are generally hormone-positive and HER2-positive, and tend to behave more aggressively than other hormone-positive breast cancers (I think those are Luminal A, but I could be confused).

Sydneybased: I strongly believe that if you feel your tumor grew quickly, then it probably did. The pre-packaged answer that oncologists give about taking years to develop is, in my humble opinion, flawed. I think we'll eventually see oncologists move away from describing all breast cancers that way.

Like others on here, my cancer grew fast. My ob/gyn didn't feel it at my annual exam, then five months later, I found the two, 2.5 cm tumors! I've always felt that there are some tumors, especially in young women, that don't act like the typical tumors. They are in fact much more deadly. Sadly though, they develop in women who are too young for even mammograms and this tool is especially limited in young, dense breasts anyway. So yeah, we need better screening tools for all young women. Like 80 percent of us, I had no family history and no apparent reason to ever suspect this could happen. The truth is that no one--other than hopefully you--is watching out for this. I think we should tell young women this in no uncertain terms. "Yes, I know you are busy with work, raising kids, helping family, keeping up with friends and trying to build and pay for a life, but you also have to check your breasts. Really, even if you sometimes can't find time to brush your teeth, you must check your breasts."  

Definately, the more amplification of her2, the fast the tumor grows.

I am very her2 positive and my tumor grew very rapidly and I developed IBC overnight. On December 13 I was undressing to go to bed and noticed that my breast was inflammed. I thought perhaps my underwire bra had caused some kind blockage. The next morning, it looked better, but I promised myself I would call the clinic. I was very busy at work getting ready to leave for Christmas vacation and didn't call the Breast Clinic until Thurday afternoon. It was too late to do imaging so we agreed that I would come in the clinic when I returned. My last mammogram prior to dx was March 2011 so I told myself that it was probably a cyst that I felt because a tumor couldn't possibley that big.  As soon as I was back in town on the 27th,  I went to the the Breast Center to find out why my breast was all red and enlarged and discovered that I had a >7cm tumor and enlarged sentinal lymph node. I was biopsied for both and results came back positive for grade 3, er/pr negative, very her2 positive breast cancer with IBC.

I was put on a clinical trial of Herceptin and Tykerb. My tumor responded immediately. By the second cycle it had reduced by more than half, but the 6 week interval, it was too small to biopsy for the study. I had surgery (modified radical) on July 3rd. They found 2 small nodes less than .8 cm and 4 of 27 lymph with cancer (still grade 3), but had nice clear margins. I started adjuvent chemotherapy on August 16.

i am going for a biopsy tomorow..

8 weeks ago i found a egg size lump with bse..

i do it quite often.. weekly.. even daily sometimes..i know.. obsessive..

but one day.. there it was

after U/S and mammo... i am a birad 5 

orange1: Thank you! That's exactly what my MO said the first time she met me and asked how all this started. We absolutely have to be our own best advocates because we have the greatest amount of skin in the game.

 jackboo009: I'm sorry about all you've been through. You're absolutely right that breast pain can alert us to a possible malignancy. When I found my lump and went to my PCP the next day, it hurt when she pressed on it. She said that was good news and meant it wasn't cancerous. The surgeon she eventually referred me to also repeated the same thing. There are several threads here on BCO that discuss that very myth and many of the women had pain and were told that breast cancer lumps don't hurt. It's scary because so often there are no or very limited symptoms to alert us that we have this going on and to be told that pain means we can discount malignancy is an awful disservice. We really do need to make sure that women know that some of these myths perpetuated by doctors are absolutely NOT TRUE. Breast cancer can hurt and it can develop quite rapidly. I mean, look at some of the stories of women diagnosed with IBC.

CelineFlower: Good luck!

I found my tumour while showering....4cm.  Within a month I had had it biopsied, diagnosed and removed.  I remember at my biopsy, commenting that I couldn't believe I didn't notice it before, and the doctor saying it was likely not there.  It was a very aggressive, fast growing tumour and I cringe when I hear about ladies who are told to they are going to "watch" for 6 months

rava,

The protocol at the hospital where I am followed is the same. I've never had a scan, and only had an MRI before surgery and then once after treatment when the radiologist doing my mammogram saw something too small to be resolved with ultrasound. (It was nothing.) It's been four years since diagnosis for me, and my anxiety decreases with every good checkup. It will for you too.

Glad you're feeling well! And the end is in sight.

Mine doubled every 2-3 weeks.