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All TopicsForum: Growing our Friendships After Treatment → Topic: I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Topic: I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Forum: Growing our Friendships After Treatment — For those who have finished treatment, but want to continue growing your cybersister friendships.

Posted on: Jan 3, 2011 04:23PM, edited Jul 28, 2011 09:03AM by bluedahlia

bluedahlia wrote:

Thought I'd add mrmojorisin in there somewhere.

Let's try this again. 

Life is made up of differences. Let's explore these differences, learn from them and accept them.

Now "Don't stop till you get enough"!  I love Michael Jackson too!

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Posts 34111 - 34140 (55,144 total)

Dec 2, 2012 09:08AM YramAL wrote:

Scotland-anyone read the "Outlander" books? History, science fiction, and romance all rolled into one. I've read the first 3 in the series, but I'm taking a break. 

Mary

Mary-Oncotype Score 11 Dx 12/7/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 09:24AM lassie11 wrote:

oh yes!!  there is a trip advertized somewhere to take you to the sites in Scotland that are mentioned in the books.

From each according to ability; to each according to need.

Dec 2, 2012 11:06AM , edited Dec 2, 2012 11:09AM by 1Athena1

I am a history freak (the word buff wouldn't sufficiently capture it). My specialty is 20th century, but I find it all fascinating.

Yorkie, I loved Ambrose's Citizen Soldiers: The U. S. Army from the Normandy Beaches to the Bulge to the Surrender of Germany.

Riley - love that picture. I only went to the Tower once and my strongest memory was of the crown jewels. But I so agree. Despite it's history, the Tower gives on a sense of peace.

Speaking of the Tower, and of how Hollywood and others distort history, do you recall the time when Elizabeth learned of Leicester's marriage and her first reaction was to order him to the Tower? The Helen Mirren Version simply had her breaking down into tears -- so un-Elizabethan. Arghhhh! Annoyed me no end to see that.

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 11:11AM yorkiemom wrote:

Athena, that was incredible! Also loved D-Day and Band of Soldiers. In addition to WWII he wrote an awesome book about Lewis and Clark called Undaunted Courage.

Life is what happens while we're making other plans. Dx 10/18/2011, IDC, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 2/21 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 01:30PM 1Athena1 wrote:

Quiet cloudy Sunday. I have finished a pint of Ben & Jerry's Vanilla Heath Bar Crunch in one sitting. My stomach looks something like this:

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 01:54PM Chickadee wrote:

Jealous. Something lately about ice cream and my tummy has gone very wrong. I never had a dairy problem but now milk and ice cream send me into digestive hell.

Have to find a new food vice. Chocolate in any form!

I'm in such bad shape, I'm wearing prescription underwear." Phyllis Diller 1917-2012 Dx 9/1/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 02:13PM crazy4carrots wrote:

Chick -- An aunt of mine developed celiac disease in her late 50's.  Another one (on the other side of the family) was dx'ed with celiac in her late 70's.  She also cannot consume dairy products without major tummy troubles.  So, unfortunately, these autoimmune disorders can occur at any age -- just frequently takes awhile for an accurate dx.

Certain politicians and all diapers should be changed often -- and for the same reason. Dx 1/10/2008, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 02:48PM Chickadee wrote:

Lindasa you are probably on the right track, although I thought celiac was a gluten thing. Didn't know dairy was part of the problem too.

It's always something, ain't it.

I'm in such bad shape, I'm wearing prescription underwear." Phyllis Diller 1917-2012 Dx 9/1/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IV, Grade 3, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 02:57PM riley702 wrote:

Athena, I rolled my eyes at that, too. People were tougher back then. And after everything Elizabeth had survived, she would NOT have blubbered. Yelled and thrown things, yes. Cried privately afterward, sure. Also, in my continuing role as historic killjoy, Elizabeth knew Leicester was married; it wasn't a secret, she was his friend from childhood, and she attended the wedding. I think the Elizabeth movie was trying (clumsily) to add a dramatic event from much later in her life, when Leicester's step-son got too big for his britches when Elizabeth wouldn't continue to let him do what he pleased. He openly defied her, nearly drew HIS SWORD ON HER during an argument before he caught himself, burst into her private apartments one morning before she was dressed to argue with her some more (getting in a cheap shot about her "twisted old carcass" while he was at it), and raised an army to march on the palace to "save" her from those horrible people who'd obviously turned her against him <rolleyes>. He lost his head for that, and it broke her heart and humiliated her. She'd indulged him because he reminded her of Leicester, who'd died, and because he'd flirted with and flattered her. And it was all a con against an old woman.

I'm going to have to look for the "Outlander" series. I googled it briefly and found a single 600 page book; are there more, or did they combine several into one massive tome?

Carolyn - 6 months neoadjuvant chemo (clinical trial), BMX and rads. Dx'd and treated as TN. After MX, I was informed my tumor was weakly ER+ after all (8%) Dx 1/26/2010, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 01/14/2012 Arimidex (chemical name: anastrozole, class: aromatase inhibitor) Hormonal Therapy 08/07/2011 Aromasin (chemical name: exemestane, class: aromatase inhibitor) Hormonal Therapy 12/31/2010 Surgery 12/13/2010 Prophylactic (also called preventive) mastectomy of one or both breasts : Prophylactic (also called preventive) mastectomy of my right breast Surgery 09/04/2010 Mastectomy of one or both breasts: Mastectomy of my left breast; Lymph node removal (also called dissection): Sentinel lymph node removal (also called dissection) , Lymph node removal (also called dissection) on my left side Targeted Therapy 02/08/2010 Avastin (chemical name: bevacizumab) Radiation Therapy 10/18/2010 Chemotherapy 02/08/2010 Adriamycin (chemical name: doxorubicin), Cytoxan (chemical name: cyclophosphamide), Xeloda (chemical name: capecitabine), Taxotere (chemical name: docetaxel)

Dec 2, 2012 03:14PM , edited Dec 2, 2012 03:17PM by YramAL

Riley-Every one of the "Outlander" series books I have read so far is at least 600 pages. Tongue Out I'm taking a break after 3 of them-I think there are at least 4 more. "Outlander" is only the first book.

Mary

Mary-Oncotype Score 11 Dx 12/7/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:22PM , edited Dec 4, 2012 05:05PM by 1Athena1

So here, on this quiet Sunday (Chick - I envy YOU on the ice cream bit. Ben & Jerry's is the enemy of a good silouette!) is a "Renaissance 101" primer. The word is French for "re-birth." The main tenet of the Renaissance was humanism - the notion overturning centuries of Dark Ages thought, that God was the center. Humanism posits that man/woman lie at the center.

At the same time that Galileo committed heresy by proposing that the earth was not the center of the universe. Columbus proved that the world was round by not dropping off in his journey to the Americas.

It was an era of unprecedented technological advances, including the compass, for navigation. And there came Leonardo da Vinci with his wonderful sketches. Leonardo is also the main proponent of a simple but at the time revolutionary concept in art - the use of perspective.

Notice how, in The Last Supper, everything is aligned with a point on the horizon:

This was a foreign concept in most Medieval art, which essentially looked like this:

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:27PM , edited Dec 2, 2012 04:34PM by 1Athena1

Back to the concept of humanism, Botticelli and Raphael are other prominent masters. Before, since the fall of Rome, Europe mostly had religious art. So Raphael and Botticelli were novel in reviving some of the pagan themes:

Here is Botticelli's Birth of Venus:

and his Primavera ("Spring")

It was not only the departure from religious art that was revolutionary, but also the emphasis on earthly emotions, joy, and the depiction of three-dimensional human figures which depart from the rather flat figures you saw in Medieval art.

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:29PM crazy4carrots wrote:

Chick -- Yes, celiacs cannot digest gluten.  But I was actually commenting on how food "allergies" (for want of a better word!) can affect us at any age.  The aunt who was dx'd with celiac in her late 70's also discovered that she had become intolerant of dairy, so, by process of elimination (no pun intended!!) she found her gastro troubles totally disappeared when she stopped dairy products (which she LOVES!).  Life is not fair.....

By the same token, tots and children with asthma or excema, for example, frequently outgrow it.....but some don't.

I wish some bright young researchers would discover the real reason why food allergies have increased exponentially over the last 25 years.

Certain politicians and all diapers should be changed often -- and for the same reason. Dx 1/10/2008, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:33PM , edited Dec 2, 2012 04:12PM by 1Athena1

And then, of course, there is Raphael:

Raphael, if you notice above, was another master at the use of perspective. This painting, entitled The School of Athens, was meant to convey, generally speaking, knowledge and scholarship as exemplified by the Ancients.

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:37PM , edited Dec 4, 2012 05:04PM by 1Athena1

Michelangelo is often thought of as a product of the Renaissance, but strictly speaking he comes somewhat later. Anyway, here is his David. I first saw it as a child when it was still shown outside. It has since been moved inside - I think it's still at the Uffizi gallery in Florence. Nearby there are loads of souvenir shops carrying small statues of the David. None capture what Michelangelo managed to:

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:43PM , edited Dec 3, 2012 08:13AM by 1Athena1

I said a few pages back that El Greco was a mannerist - but many critics say he is too unique to be classed into a single art form. However, the reason why I bring him up here is that he, like many Renaissance masters before his time, also continued religious themes but with a deeply human and often tortured tone. To understand this point, compare and contrast the El Greco, immediately below, with the uni-dimensional Medieval triptych that follows:

(El Greco's Pieta)

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:45PM 1Athena1 wrote:

Oops - back to the High Rennaissance (roughly, late 15th to early 16th century) because we HAVE to mention Titian - here is his Venus:

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:49PM 1Athena1 wrote:

This is all to explain how art became human....so let's jump a few centuries forward to the time when photography had been invented and art slowly became abstract. Cezanne and Seurat are considered to be two forefathers of the impressionists, which are considered, in their way, to be the first abstracts in that they were the first to worry less about how objects actually were and instead were concerned with how they appeared. Monet is probably the best known impressionist:

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 03:50PM juliaanna wrote:

Hello, I've been reading for a number of months and you all are wonderful.  I enjoyed the October/November commentary. I am really enjoying the art discussion.  Thank you.

"Just live your life so that every morning, when you plant your feet on the floor beside your bed, the devil gets a cold chill and says, 'Oh CRAP' She's awake.'" Original diagnosis 2/7/12-mucinous carcinoma. Dx 2/7/2012, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 4/5/2012, DCIS Dx 4/5/2012, IDC Dx 4/5/2012, ILC, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 07/25/2013 Reconstruction of my left breast: Nipple reconstruction; Reconstruction of my right breast: Nipple reconstruction Surgery 11/15/2012 Reconstruction of my left breast; Reconstruction of my right breast Surgery 04/04/2012 Lumpectomy in one or both breasts: Lumpectomy in my left breast; Lymph node removal (also called dissection): Sentinel lymph node removal (also called dissection) , Lymph node removal (also called dissection) on my left side Surgery 05/31/2012 Mastectomy of one or both breasts: Mastectomy of my left breast; Prophylactic (also called preventive) mastectomy of one or both breasts : Prophylactic (also called preventive) mastectomy of my right breast ; Reconstruction of my left breast: Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction of my right breast: Tissue expander placement

Dec 2, 2012 04:01PM , edited Dec 2, 2012 04:39PM by 1Athena1

The preoccupation with how things appeared, coming at the end of the 19th century, was not uncoincidental. As the 20th century dawned, war, industrialization and technology spelled the ending of an old world order. It was a time of trauma, uncertainty, extremism in Europe and a sense of fatalism - the feeling that technology and war could spell the end of humanity. This was compounded by the fact that religion is no longer the center of philosophical thought. Science is. And the cubists, led by Picasso and Braque, incorporate this preoccupation via shape, form, geometry and analytics in their art. At the height of the cubist era, here is Picasso's Les Demoiselles d'Avignon (the young ladies of Avignon)

Braque - one of my favorites -  his Violin and Candlestick:

The preoccupation of cubism is not to depict an object as it looks to us but as it really is - with the parts that we don't see, such as those that are behind. The argument of cubism proponents was that a shape's innate characteristics --including the parts that are invisible to us-- are more real than what we can see with our eyes.

Picasso in his cubist period - the painting below depicts what is known as analytic cubism:

Picasso went through many evolutions in his art. His "blue" period, which came just before his cubism one, already depicted that early 20th century angst while already hinting at abstraction and away from the faithful depiction of human forms:

The Old Guitarist by Pablo Picasso

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:08PM lewing wrote:

Thanks, Juliaanna! Hope you'll stick around (and please feel free to jump in anytime/anywhere).

I was inspired by the art discussion to spend yesterday afternoon at the museum.  I stumbled into the Robert Lehman wing at the Met -- it's very eclectic, basically everything that Lehman collected as an individual and then bequeathed to the museum, so it takes in European and Middle Eastern ceramics, various decorative items, medieval religious painting and some gorgeous impressionist and fauvist and don't-know-what-to-call them European paintings from the 19th and 20th centuries.  I "met" a couple of artists I wasn't familiar with. 

Linda

Dx 1/15/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 1/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (chemical name: anastrozole, class: aromatase inhibitor) Surgery 03/12/2008 Mastectomy of one or both breasts: Mastectomy of my left breast; Lymph node removal (also called dissection): Underarm (axillary) lymph node removal (also called dissection) , Lymph node removal (also called dissection) on my left side Chemotherapy Adriamycin (chemical name: doxorubicin), Cytoxan (chemical name: cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (chemical name: docetaxel)

Dec 2, 2012 04:08PM , edited Dec 2, 2012 04:59PM by 1Athena1

I mentioned earlier the growing preoccupation with technology as defining to thought in the early 20th century. This was expressed in art and architecture in many ways, including by the Futurism movement, which became obsessed with showing how technology and industrialization had dominated the consciousness of the time. Futurism was a brief movement, but I find it emblematic:

Futurism, as per its "Manifesto," was meant to celebrate speed, violence, machinery, youth and industry. It was UNHEARD of, at the time, to lump such conepts together. In many ways, futureism, IMO, predates the irreverence which has become so very mainstream these days. Here are some more expressions of that movement:

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:09PM 1Athena1 wrote:

Welcome Juliaanna!

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:13PM Enjoyful wrote:

Hi juliaanna! Welcome!

The art discussion is fascinating, isn't it? You never know what you'll learn on this thread!

Athena, thank you for posting photos of such wonderful works of art. I like pieces that show "movement" (for lack of a better word) so van Gogh and Rodin are favorites of mine. Rodin's Burghers of Calais fascinated me since I read of it long ago. I was pleased to discover it at the Hirshhorn!

And now, my daily "Prisoner of Medicare" update:

Morning fog shrouded my bedroom windows. My bowels have become unruly and a pimple garnishes my chin. Tomorrow I approach my oncs with Medicare card and metaphorical hat in hand.

Based on Fox News and Drudge reports, government doctors will likely implant an Obamachip into my arm so that "they " can monitor my whereabouts and freedom-lovin' capitalistic activities, and perhaps even control my thoughts! The next time I report, I may be an Obamabot.

Wish me luck, friends.



BENGHAZI! Dx 9/2004, IDC, 1cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 4/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/28/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, Grade 2, ER+/PR-, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:16PM crazy4carrots wrote:

Speaking of art and the crossover of styles into other art forms, French Impressionism may be a prime example.  Monet, Cezanne et al were contemporaries of Claude Debussy.  For an example of impressionism in music there is no better piece than Debussy's "Jardin Sous la Pluie"  (Garden in/under the Rain).  Google and listen to it and picture, in your mind, a misty garden with the rain falling, and a hint of thunder.  It's beautiful!  Of course, "Clair de Lune" is another fine example, but perhaps not as "explicit".....

Welcome, Julianna!  I love your name, a favourite niece of mine is named Julianna -- it's so musical!

Certain politicians and all diapers should be changed often -- and for the same reason. Dx 1/10/2008, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:20PM 1Athena1 wrote:

E - Make sure to take your tax forms - you KNOW the guv'mint needs those BEFORE they agree to treat you!

And here is the Rodin you refer to:

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:32PM , edited Dec 2, 2012 04:33PM by YramAL

Welcome Juliaanna! This is a great place to be. I don't say much sometimes but I am always reading and learning. Glad you enjoyed our October/November discussions. 

I see that you are a fellow Pacific Northwesterner!

Mary

Mary-Oncotype Score 11 Dx 12/7/2009, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:34PM Enjoyful wrote:

That's the one, Athena. Such tension and emotion in static figures. Astonishing.

Yes, I am taking my tax forms and magic decoder ring with me!

BENGHAZI! Dx 9/2004, IDC, 1cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 4/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/28/2009, IDC, 2cm, Stage IV, Grade 2, ER+/PR-, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:40PM 1Athena1 wrote:

Best of luck, my friend!

Anyone diagnosed with cancer should learn to have a healthy disrespect for statistics. Statistics are maths. It's the science which still eludes us. Dx 3/2009, IDC, 3cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 3/8 nodes, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2-

Dec 2, 2012 04:52PM IllinoisLady wrote:

Hi Julianna.....nice to meet you.  I think you'll like it here. 

Enjoyful.....your are oh so funny.  I wouldn't mind being one of those Obamabots either.

Jackie

Each day I am thankful for nights that turned into mornings, friends that turned into family, dreams that turned into reality and likes that turned into love. ~~~Elizabeth Kuebler-Ross Dx 9/27/2007, IDC, 5cm, Stage II, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2-

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