Topic: In Favor of Feminism: Share Your Views

Forum: Bonded by Breast Cancer — For those who have met on Breastcancer.org and want to continue growing their cybersibling friendships beyond cancer.

Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 11:13AM - edited Jul 14, 2021 05:48AM by divinemrsm

Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 11:13AM - edited Jul 14, 2021 05:48AM by divinemrsm

divinemrsm wrote:

I'm starting this thread for those of us who support feminism and its beliefs, so we can exchange thoughts, ideas, inspiration, frustrations, personal stories, news stories, famous people stories, memes, book & video recommendations and other matters pertaining to women's equality.

Here's a general definition of feminism: the belief in full social, economic, and political equality and opportunities for all genders. It's about respecting diverse women's experiences, identities, knowledge and strengths, and striving to empower all women to realise their full rights.

[[****Edited to add: The above description is taken from several websites and aligns with my personal view of what feminism means to me. You may have other thoughts. What does feminism mean to you? Please feel free to discuss.]]

Only in the last ten years or so have my eyes been open to the patriarchal world we live in. Since then, I'm continually aware of the many women (including from this forum and also myself) who've been conditioned (by society, religion, family tradition, etc.) to prioritize others before themselves; to take on a "less than" persona, to minimize themselves and their contributions. As women, we need to recognize our value individually and collectively, advocate for ourselves and treat ourselves with the same care and loving-kindness with which we treat others.

Please honor the spirit of the thread. It's not for opposing views. The intention is for those of us with similar views on feminism to have a space to gather, share insights and find support. I feel I will have a lot to contribute. Will you join me?


found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Jul 20, 2021 06:07AM - edited Jul 20, 2021 06:10AM by divinemrsm

2019whatayear, if you don't mind my mentioning that when I first saw you posting on this thread, your screen name immediately made me think of the affectionate light-hearted joke as in “...then 2020 said 'hold my beer.'" Thanks for the Rewire News Group link, I will check it out.

Miriandra, wow, I knew nothing of Maria Anna Mozart. Her story makes me think of so many things. How often women's genius was/is overshadowed, suppressed, erased. How often the masses of people today embrace the great men composers of yesteryear yet never comprehend the reasons why women are not in those ranks.

Even in today's more modern world: the most popular song of John Lennon's solo career, “Imagine" which has received countless worldwide accolades, was co-written by Yoko Ono but she wasn't giving the songwriting credit until 2017. From Wikipedia: “Lennon later said the composition "should be credited as a Lennon/Ono song. A lot of it – the lyric and the concept – came from Yoko, but in those days I was a bit more selfish, a bit more macho, and I sort of omitted her contribution,“ These words came before his death in 1980 yet no credit to Yoko until 2017!

The other thing I am reminded of is the following story, explained in an article fromThe Guardian:

“Over the past several decades, orchestras have started changing the way they hire musicians. One of these changes was designed to eliminate bias against women.

It would be hard to deny that there was such a bias in the composition of orchestras. As late as 1970, the top five orchestras in the U.S. had fewer than 5% women. It wasn't until 1980 that any of these top orchestras had 10% female musicians. But by 1997 they were up to 25% and today some of them are well into the 30s. What is the source of this change?

.....In the 1970s and 1980s, orchestras began using blind auditions. Candidates are situated on a stage behind a screen to play for a jury that cannot see them.

.....Even when the screen is only used for the preliminary round, it has a powerful impact; researchers have determined that this step alone makes it 50% more likely that a woman will advance to the finals. And the screen has also been demonstrated to be the source of a surge in the number of women being offered positions.

By the way, even a screen doesn't always yield a gender blind event. Screens keep juries from seeing the candidates move into position, but the telltale sounds of a woman's shoes allegedly influenced some jury members such that aspiring musicians were instructed to remove their footwear before coming onto the stage."

I can't find the additional details (will look for it), but I believe one reason blind auditions came about was after some famous composer claimed men were better at the violin than women; he was challenged on his views and after proven differently, he later conceded he was wrong.


found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Jul 20, 2021 06:42AM summerangel wrote:

SerenitySTAT, your mother was brave! My mother is also 82 and is a retired registered nurse. When she was young she desperately wanted to become a veterinarian, but was a child of a prominent doctor who absolutely forbade it. He told her that if she wanted to work she could choose any of the "acceptable" careers for women: Teacher, secretary, or nurse. She chose nurse but was never very happy in her profession. I think her experience helped shaped my career path, as well as one of my sister's. My sister is a chemical engineer and I'm a software developer and architect.

Age at dx: 45. Oncotype, left-side tumor: 9. Right side had multifocal IDC and "extensive" LCIS. Isolated tumor cells in 1 right-side node. Dx 3/27/2015, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 4/27/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 6/1/2015 Lymph node removal; Mastectomy; Mastectomy (Left); Mastectomy (Right) Surgery 6/1/2015 Reconstruction (Left): Tissue Expander; Reconstruction (Right): Tissue Expander Surgery 8/27/2015 Reconstruction (Left): Fat grafting, Silicone implant; Reconstruction (Right): Fat grafting, Silicone implant Surgery 12/3/2015 Reconstruction (Left): Fat grafting, Nipple reconstruction; Reconstruction (Right): Fat grafting, Nipple reconstruction
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Jul 20, 2021 07:51AM divinemrsm wrote:

Serenity & SummerAngel, thank you for the stories about your mothers. It is quite impressive to hear of an 82 yr old woman who became a doctor all those years ago. She must have somewhat compartmentalized her life, submitting to her husband but being revered by her patients. Maybe the two balanced each other out somewhat.

My oncologist, who’s been with me the whole 10 years since I was diagnosed, is retiring next month. She is 74. She didn’t go to medical school until after she was married and had three sons. Her husband was a skilled surgeon. She told him, “I know I can do this.” and he encouraged her. I cannot even imagine having that kind of male support. It makes a lot of difference to many. When I think about it, his support of her led to my good fortune of having her as my oncologist.

I grew up and still live in an area where steel making was king. All that industry meant high paying jobs for mostly men. The mills declined, but the patriarchy is still a big factor here. I don’t know a whole lot of liberal minded men. Fortunately my son and stepson are liberal. And dh is making some inroads. He was a steel worker. My brothers embrace the patriarchy. My dad was raised by Polish immigrants and had five brothers. Even tho he had four daughters, he didn’t really respect women.

As mentioned, I didn’t grasp the patriarchy until about 10 years ago. When I look back over my life, I see countless times where the frustrations I experienced were a direct result of the patriarchy, but at the time, it was an invisible force to me. I kept thinking I was the problem, I was doing something wrong. But it was a male dominated system I could not see that was working against me. A lot of things make much more sense now.



found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Jul 20, 2021 08:49AM trishyla wrote:

Serenity, it sounds like you experienced violence at the hands of your father, and that your mother did nothing to protect you. Regardkess of what she was able to accomplish in her professional life, it makes her just as much of an abuser as he was.

I'm sorry you had to experience that as a child. You're right to keep your distance.

Sending warm, caring cyber hugs.

Trish

Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Dx 9/6/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 9/28/2016 AC + T (Taxol) Surgery 4/4/2017 Lymph node removal; Mastectomy; Mastectomy (Left); Mastectomy (Right); Reconstruction (Left): DIEP flap; Reconstruction (Right): DIEP flap Chemotherapy 8/4/2017 Xeloda (capecitabine)
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Jul 20, 2021 09:07AM - edited Jul 20, 2021 09:12AM by erento

On female doctors, I met a young woman a few years ago who said her GP referred her to a female specialist for some issue she was having. She said she never trusts female doctors and refuses to see one. I was shocked and horrified that anyone, that too a young woman, thinks like this. I didn't even know people like that still existed! These types are hopeless, so no point in having any kind of discussions with them. I just casually mentioned that I had an all-female oncology team (Surgeon, MO, RO) and they've saved my life so far.

Female misogyny is all too prevalent. I think it comes from lack of self-confidence and the way some girls are brought up to believe they're not as good and they carry that mentality with them through life.

Survived an unexplained sudden cardiac arrest b/w surgery and chemo (while attending a chemo info session at the hospital). Code blue, CPR, induced coma, ICU, ICD. Escaped alive with heart and brain unscathed! Dx 12/8/2014, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, 6/13 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 1/11/2015 Lumpectomy; Lumpectomy (Left) Chemotherapy 3/19/2015 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Ellence (epirubicin), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil), Taxotere (docetaxel) Hormonal Therapy 7/23/2015 Arimidex (anastrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone), Zoladex (goserelin) Radiation Therapy 8/3/2015 Breast, Lymph nodes
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Jul 20, 2021 09:14AM 2019whatayear wrote:

DivineMM,

Yes, my screen name is pretty fun in hindsight! 2019whatayear- for me personally 2020whatayear for everyone on planet earth!

RE: Steel Mills.

Good-paying union jobs were our middle class, in the 20th century we decided that people who worked in factories should make enjoy the money that they could buy a car, buy a house, send kids to college, take a vacation a year and retire in their 60s; but when those jobs declined (80s /90s) our society decided not to value service sector jobs the same way. I've worked in a factory and I've worked in restaurants and retail. Retail and Restaurants are more demanding. Why the difference? Manufacturing jobs are traditionally viewed as male gender jobs (and white male to boot). Restaurant jobs/Cleaning/ traditionally viewed as female gender jobs (and brown and Black female to boot).

And so here we are major major inequality in America,


Thanks for the story about orchestras. Male bias is strong in so many areas

5/6/2019 IDC 2cm, micromet 1/9 nodes, BRCA2+, ER+, PR+, HER- BMX 6/2019, A/C & Taxol 2019, Radiation, BSO - preventative 2/2020, Letrozole 3/1/2020, Started Lynparza for 1 year preventative on 7/18/2021
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Jul 20, 2021 11:13AM serenitystat wrote:

SummerAngel - It's terrible that your mom wasn't allowed by her father to become a doctor like him. She must be so proud of you and your sister!

Divine - She was revered by others. They provided opportunities at a cost. I wouldn't say it balanced anything. They certainly raised an ungrateful daughter. It took time for me to accept that I'm ok with that. They're more concerned with what their friends think.

Trish - Thank you. She definitely enabled him, and there was one instance where she placed us in the line of fire. I'm safely many metal detectors away from him. It's been almost 20 years since I've seen him. Most days I no longer think of him.

Growing up I remember hearing a newscaster talk about children's rights. My father scoffed saying "children don't have rights". That may have been when he became less physically abusive. This may be why I value rights beyond women's rights. When you deny the rights of others, you leave them vulnerable to abuse.

🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ . . . . . "Do not overlook the little joys!" (Hesse, 1905) 🐶☕️🛀🖼🥐🌲🎭 Dx-11/2015-IDC.L.IIIC.10/11-nodes.++- 12/2015-L.Mast 2/2016-4AC+12Taxol fasted 9/2016-Rads.Nodes.Chest-wall.15+4boosts 10/2016-Tamox(2.5y) 4/2019-Exemestane 12/2019-Ibrance/Xgeva
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Jul 20, 2021 11:21AM magiclight wrote:

I so appreciate this thread with many points of view respectfully given and received. Learning so much.


Surgery 4/26/2015 Mastectomy; Mastectomy (Left); Mastectomy (Right) Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, HER2- Surgery
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Jul 20, 2021 11:37AM trishyla wrote:

Me, too, magiclight.

Great thread you've started, Divine. It quickly became one of my favorites. 👍

Trish

Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Dx 9/6/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 9/28/2016 AC + T (Taxol) Surgery 4/4/2017 Lymph node removal; Mastectomy; Mastectomy (Left); Mastectomy (Right); Reconstruction (Left): DIEP flap; Reconstruction (Right): DIEP flap Chemotherapy 8/4/2017 Xeloda (capecitabine)
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Jul 20, 2021 12:07PM typhoon wrote:

In keeping with today's "almost space" news, I'd like to give a shout out to Judith Love Cohen - rocket scientist, ballet dancer, author, and feminist (and also the mother of actor Jack Black). Judith Love Cohen - Wikipedia

Dx 10/23/2020, IDC, Both breasts, <1, Stage IA, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2-, IHC Surgery 12/1/2020 Lymph node removal (Left): Sentinel; Lymph node removal (Right): Sentinel; Mastectomy (Left): Nipple Sparing; Mastectomy (Right): Nipple Sparing Surgery 12/9/2020 Lymph node removal; Lymph node removal (Left): Sentinel; Lymph node removal (Right): Sentinel; Mastectomy; Mastectomy (Left); Mastectomy (Right); Reconstruction (Left): Silicone implant; Reconstruction (Right): Silicone implant Hormonal Therapy 1/1/2021 Arimidex (anastrozole) Hormonal Therapy 1/14/2021 Arimidex (anastrozole)

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