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Topic: ER+ & Soy ???

Forum: Recipe Swap for Healthy Living —

A place to share our "healthier" recipes and food tips for everyday life.

Posted on: Dec 5, 2011 09:21PM

odie16 wrote:

I have been recommended to avoid soy due to my estrogen positive status but dang... Seems to me soy is in everything in some form or another. I am thinking the soy protein is the main offensive form but should I really avoid the soy lechthin & anything cooked in soybean oil etc...  Guess on the positive side, I can just start cooking fresh & simply to avoid processed foods but am really bummed by how limited my food choices are otherwise....Appreciate any words of wisdom, insight or thoughts....

Dx 6/27/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Dec 5, 2011 09:29PM MiniMacsMom wrote:

My doctor said to avoid soy if at all possible, but if its the last ingredient in a long line of ingredients don't sweat it too much.  He also said its ok to eat a soy heavy food every once in a while, no more than once a month, but try to limit as much as possible.  It's terrible soy is in a lot of stuff.  I love cheese-its and the back to nature version is soy free.  Just start looking around for different products.  Good luck!

Diagnosis: 10/25/2011, IDC, 9cm, Stage IIIa, Grade 3, 4/15 nodes + Rotter's Node, ER+/P+-, HER2-, BRCA 2+
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Dec 7, 2011 11:11PM odie16 wrote:

Thanks MiniMacsMom.

Guess I will just have to improve the diet huh? I like cheese-its to so will look for the nature version...

Dx 6/27/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 01:11PM balsie wrote:

Hi Ladies~

so would soy include soy protien isolate?  I was looking at ordering some shake mix by Visalus sciences just for convience sake.  I am thinking I shouldn't use it because the soy protien isolate is the first produce listed.  any ideas? 

Dx 4/15/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage IIA, 2/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 02:29PM Blessings2011 wrote:

According to another thread somewhere here on BCO, soy protein isolate may have other problems for cancer patients, but here is what my Onco told me when I asked about soy:

I should not depend on soy products for my main source of nutrients (i.e. soy milk, etc.); however, if soy is listed somewhere down the line in a long list (like MiniMacsMom wrote) I didn't need to worry.

I will be on a meal-replacement weight loss program for four months. I get shakes, soups, and bars. One bar has 7 grams of soy protein listed as the first ingredient, and she said that was a small amount, and I wouldn't be on it forever,  so not to worry.

Dx 9/15/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 12/5/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Surgery 8/21/2012 Reconstruction (left): Saline implant; Reconstruction (right): Saline implant Hormonal Therapy 9/5/2012 Arimidex (anastrozole) Hormonal Therapy 10/22/2013 Femara (letrozole) Dx 7/15/2021, IDC: Papillary, Left, <1cm, Stage IA, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 03:21PM Kadia wrote:

Rice protein or hemp protein shake mixes are another option. Available at most health or natural food stores.

Multicentric/multifocal IDC & DCIS; Lumpectomy 12-11; UMX with immediate recon (TEs) 1-12; chemo began 2-12 (TCx4); Tamoxifen 5 years starting ?? Dx 10/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 04:03PM revkat wrote:

I haven't logged in in forever, but this is a pet peeve of mine. There is NO evidence that whole soy foods are a problem for women with breast cancer, even ER++++++. All evidence in humans indicates that it is neutral or even beneficial. There are a few studies with rats who were fed large quantities of soy isolate protien and had cancer growth. For that reason, avoiding soy isolate protien might be considered. It is also very easy to purchase non-GMO, US grown, and/or organic tofu, tempeh, edemame, etc.

If you like soy, eat it. If you don't, don't bother starting. There's way more important things to worry about than the small amounts of soy oil or soy lethicin in processed foods.

If anyone has empirical evidence to the contrary of what I've said, I would be eager to see it. 

Dx 1/28/2008, IDC, 2cm, Stage II, Grade 2, 1/20 nodes, ER+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 04:17PM dlb823 wrote:

I was told (@UCLA) that soy is fine in moderation (no more than 1 serving/day), with the exception of soy protein isolate, which is an altered, concentrated form of soy that should be avoided.  But I was encouraged to eat natural soy products (assuming I like them and have always eaten them) as a wholesome source of protein. Soy protein isolate (the one to avoid) is not only in soy protein but most energy bars, a lot of energy drinks, and many other prepared foods, so you really have to read labels to avoid it.

Some women choose to avoid soy for other reasons -- not just because it's a weak phytoestrogen.  Many soy products (i.e. soybean oil, lecithin, etc.) are byproducts of soy crops that have been heavily treated with herbicides and pesticides, so there's a concern re. toxicity of those things in many soy products.  

Of course, we need to each believe in our docs and follow our own gut feelings on the soy question, but I don't personally think we should make ourselves crazy over an occasional serving of tofu or edaname.   JMO...   Deanna 

Deanna "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears" Native American proverb Dx 2/1/2008, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 1/16 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 1/3/2014, Stage IV
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Feb 19, 2012 04:21PM jan125 wrote:

I avoid it like the plague!

Dx 5/20/2006, Stage IV, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2+
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Feb 19, 2012 04:33PM dlb823 wrote:

Here are a couple of research studies I just pulled from ScienceDaily:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110405141703.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101018121350.htm

Deanna "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears" Native American proverb Dx 2/1/2008, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 1/16 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 1/3/2014, Stage IV
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Feb 19, 2012 04:38PM stage1 wrote:

I do, too!  I think that it is not necessary to consume it, so I just avoid it, even if the studies are just on mice.  If there are no proven studies, I feel that we must look at "theories"..example...like my RO had prescribed a paraben containing cream, when I called her on it, she said that the link between parabens are not proven, just a theory.  Well, for goodness sakes, if we have weak studies to go by and a theory has been developed by looking at the chemical, I can give it up, "just in case" it has a negative effect on my getting a recurrance. I hate that most foods contain Soy, I think because it is a cheap crop and used as a filler in everything we buy.  So, yes, I am cooking from 'scratch' as much as possible.  I think, not only, BC patients, but if we spread the word about cheap fillers in our food, just to improve general health.  We need to stop supporting lousy products, by not buying them.

Dx 4/1/2011, DCIS/IDC, Left, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/19/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left Radiation Therapy Whole-breast: Breast
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Feb 19, 2012 04:39PM Kaara wrote:

Dr. Christine Horner in her recent book "Waking The Warrior Goddess" said it was ok to eat soy and flaxseed; in fact, it was good for you.  She did qualify it and say that they should be organic only, as the other could be GMO.

Kaara Dx 11/14/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 04:51PM stage1 wrote:

I was on flaxseed oil for dry eye for two years before BC.  MO took me off of it.  He said to controversial right now.  I read pros and cons all the time, so I guess we just have to follow our feelings. 

Dx 4/1/2011, DCIS/IDC, Left, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/19/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left Radiation Therapy Whole-breast: Breast
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Feb 19, 2012 04:51PM jenlee wrote:

Balsie, I like convenience shakes too, for breakfast or lunch on the run.  Sadly, I relied way too much on protein bars before my diagnosis, probably got me where I am :(   I just got a new one called Shakeology...   In any event, Shakeology just came out with a Tropical vegan shake (no whey, no soy), just non-soy plant proteins, plus all kinds of other things that are really good for you. There are many concoctions you can make, but I've blended it with organic unsweetened vanilla almond milk and half a banana and it's quite good.  They're  introducing a chocolate vegan version soon.

They also have regular chocolate & greenberry, which are both yummy, but do contain whey protein (dairy).  One of my former docs suggested avoiding a lot of dairy -- as we've all discovered, everyone has their own theories!  (He said that dairy comes from lactating cows, therefore has too much natural estrogen.)   But if you're OK with dairy, these are excellent.

A friend of mine is a so-called trainer (distributor) of this shake, so she sent me sample packets to try before buying.  But you can also get sample packets on ebay, so you can try them first. 

Jenifer, completed TAC x 8 on 4/24/2012. Lumpectomy on 5/23/2012. BMX & immediate DIEH stage 1 on 6/5/2012 NOLA; stage 2 surgery 10/4/12 NOLA. Tamoxifen since 6/2012. Switched to Arimidex 9/2013. Dx 10/20/2011, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 04:52PM greenfrog wrote:

I know that genisten (derived from soy) inhibits Tamoxifen - as do a variety of other concentrated supplements. But contraindication with drugs is not the same as saying a food stuff causes or prevents cancer.

I really don't buy into any kind of food-breast cancer relationship at all. But I think some people feel empowered by controlling their diet in some way. I have been a vegetarian/vegan all my life but it didn't stop me from getting cancer.

Dx 5/2008, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/19 nodes, ER+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 06:45PM CLC wrote:

I totally understand where you are coming from, greenfrog.  I got dcis while eating a nearly vegan diet in which I nearly eliminated all plastic products and other toxins.  I was exercising extensively.

 However, it can't be forgotten that there is an absolutely clear connection between food and other aspects of health...cardiovascular, immunity, respiratory, etc...  And, while, I, too, was exceptionally careful about what I ate for several years and that didn't stop me from growing dcis, I can say that I was way more healthy and strong and therefore in a much better position to cope with my surgery and recovery.  Moreover, it is conceivable that the food and exercise impacted how quickly our cancers grew.

My take on all of this is that you just do the best you can, and move on.

Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. ~Maori Proverb Surgery 10/28/2010 Lumpectomy: Left Dx 9/15/2011, DCIS, Stage 0, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+ Surgery 10/6/2011 Mastectomy: Left
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Feb 19, 2012 06:53PM Ysa wrote:

It's funny that this thread was reactivated today as I just got back from the grocery store where I chose almond milk over my usual soy milk (my husband and I are both lactose intolerant) because my MDA BS also said it was probably best to avoid products where soy was the main ingredient (specifically named soy milk, tofu, and edamane) but not to stress if it was listed further down the ingredient list.  Wouldn't you know, I love all those things.  On the other hand, I've read (Dr. Susan Love's site) and heard (my BS) that most breast cancer has been growing between 6-10 years before it's actually discovered and I only started the soy thing a few years ago.  So, I guess it's all back to your gut, your experience, your doctor's best advice, and hoping for good research to come down the line.  = )

Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes, courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying "I will try again tomorrow". (Mary Anne Radmacher); one 9 mm and one 7mm mass in right breast, bone mets/lumbar spine, Xgeva started 12/2012 Dx 1/6/2012, IDC, <1cm, Stage IB, Grade 1, 1/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 5/1/2012 Femara (letrozole) Dx 11/2012, IDC, Stage IV, mets, ER+/PR+, HER2- Radiation Therapy 2/19/2013 Bone Radiation Therapy Bone
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Feb 19, 2012 07:38PM balsie wrote:

Thanks everybody....lots of info to take in.  The product I am looking at is body by Vi or Visalus vi shape nutritional shake mix and it contians non-GMO soy protien which means the hormone has been taken out of the soy.(right)  It is 6.25 grams of non-GMO soy protein.  I am calling a nutrition center tomorrow to she what they think. Maybe I am really thinking to much about this.  

Balsie 

Dx 4/15/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage IIA, 2/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 07:46PM Lumpynme wrote:

balsie-i have not read studies etc- however- when my husband had his quad bypass in 2003 we were told to revisit his dietand it was suggested to add soy anywhere we could--except that i found that soy was very active in bad things in regards to prostate health.

because i have had gastric bypass surgery; i rely a lot on protein bars and powders and i---unfortunately--- let a soy based bar slip into my regimin when i got lazy about checking labels(-i was looking ofr low sugar content--)last fall at school- that's about when my lump grew too!

 i do whey protein even tho it is dairy based i somehow feel safer.

again-no fact-jmho.

Margo : DD AC 2/13/12, 2/27/12, 3/12/12, 3/26/12: LX with Ancillary Lymph Nodes 4/16/12 : DD TC 5/18/12,6/8/2012,6/29/2012 and 7/20/2012 : RADS 26 whole breast and 8 boost ended 10/12/12 : Arimidex Dx 12/16/2011, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 2, 1/9 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 08:00PM Blessings2011 wrote:

Ohhhhh....I had SUCH high hopes for the Hemp Protein powder I bought.....but one taste, and BLEAGHHHH!!!!!!  Yell

 Tried it again, this time in my VitaMix blender. Still BLEAGHHHHH!!!   Yell

Oh well...

Dx 9/15/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 12/5/2011 Lymph node removal: Left; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): Tissue expander placement; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Surgery 8/21/2012 Reconstruction (left): Saline implant; Reconstruction (right): Saline implant Hormonal Therapy 9/5/2012 Arimidex (anastrozole) Hormonal Therapy 10/22/2013 Femara (letrozole) Dx 7/15/2021, IDC: Papillary, Left, <1cm, Stage IA, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 08:24PM balsie wrote:

I love my VitaMix blender...I guess I will stick to my green smoothies of spinach, cucumber, Kale, zuchin.  and an apple with coconut water.  Yummy! sometimes I put in a pear or some ginger.  Crazy sexy Juices & Succulent Smoothies by Kris Carr.  You can get it as an e-edition.  

Be  Well

Balsie 

Dx 4/15/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage IIA, 2/14 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 08:34PM wenweb wrote:

I was told to avoid the soy protein isolate.  Personally, I feel there are too many opinions out there, and as mentioned by someone else, flax is another controversal issue.  It's difficult to find the right answers because there are too many opinions Cry
You are stronger than you seem, braver than you believe, and smarter than you think you are. A.A. Milne Surgery 9/23/2009 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Radiation Therapy 11/18/2009 Breast Hormonal Therapy Arimidex (anastrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)
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Feb 19, 2012 08:50PM dlb823 wrote:

balsie, non-GMO means the soy is not genetically modified, which is an entirely different issue and unrelated to being a phyto-estrogen.  Non-GMO is more natural and healthier because it hasn't had possibly DNA altering chemicals added to it.  But it has no bearing on the phyto-estrogen effect, as far as I know.    Deanna

Deanna "The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears" Native American proverb Dx 2/1/2008, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 1/16 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 1/3/2014, Stage IV
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Feb 19, 2012 08:50PM Janeybw wrote:

My MO keeps recommending that I eat soy products to help me with my hot flashes from the tamox.  It seems kind of counter-productive, but he downplays any fears I have.  Who knows?  I was in some of the best shape of my life when I was diagnosed.  It certainly helped with my recovery, but didn't seem to prevent the cancer in the first place.

Jane. BMX with TEs on 5/24/11. Tamoxifen started 6/27/11. No chemo. Exchange 12/16/11. Dx 4/23/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/4 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 09:13PM Mandy1313 wrote:

wenweb: I am with you. there are too many opinions out there to know what to do.  My onc thought soy was ok; some oncs think it is not ok. I  have been a vegetarian for 20 years and have eaten tofu, edaname and other forms of soy.    But my first cancer, 26 years ago, was when I still ate meat and little or no soy.  I wish I felt confident about soy, grapefruits and the whole phytoestrogen issue. Although I have tried to educate myself, I still feel as if I don't have a clue.

Dx 6/2008, IDC, 1cm, Grade 1, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 19, 2012 10:17PM odie16 wrote:

Wow, really surprised to see this thread rise from the dead. Appreciate all the responses. My onc said soy protein isolate was an absolute NO-NO and to avoid soy if at all possible. Reduce my sugar intake if possible and alcohol in moderation. I must be getting used to this now as I am finding more products without soy and starting to enjoy eating more meals made from scratch. Seems the jury is still out on soy as it really varies from one onc to another as to whether it is good or bad.....

Dx 6/27/2011, IDC, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 20, 2012 02:30AM ptdreamers wrote:

My MO said to avoid soy in general but the occasional chinese meal with soy sauce is not going to cause a problem. Use common sense. I am lactose intolerant and drank soy milk, now I drink almond milk. Its pretty good. As I understand it cultures that use soy extensively have lower cancer rates but they also have been eating it since childhood. In our culture most of us have started using or eating soy products as adults and are not able to handle/tolerate the phytoestrogen effect it has.

Soy isoflavanes seem to be the culprit. Products that contain soy lecithin are okay as that is not an isoflavane. Anyway that is what I understand from my reading. Anyone else have an opinion?

ptdreamers, “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. . Sail away. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” Dx 8/26/2011, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 2, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Feb 20, 2012 04:39AM - edited Feb 20, 2012 04:41AM by gardengumby

my oncologist told me that eating soy in moderation was fine, just avoid the soy estrogen replacements such as estroven.  In fact, she said that some studies have shown that eating soy is beneficial for reducing the odds of getting breast cancer.  That said, I still have reduced my intake of soy.  I used to drink soy milk and eat tofu almost daily - now I drink almond or rice milk, and eat tofu about 1 or 2 times a month.  I sincerely doubt that my consumption of soy had much to do with my getting BC, but still felt the need to reduce it somewhat.

BRCA1 & 2 negative - 3 family members. Oncotype 14. DCIS 7.5 cm, intermediate Dx 10/28/2010, DCIS/IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 2/19 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 12/20/2010 Lymph node removal: Left, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left; Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement
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Feb 20, 2012 07:12PM karen1956 wrote:

My onc also gave me the green light to eat soy....I eat it a couple times a month....I try to use rice milk or almond milk in cooking instead of soy milk, but I do use soy milk...though I don't use much of any of them.....I eat whatever my little heart desires...but overall, my diet is healthy....

Karen in Denver, Dx 02/03/2006, ILC, stage IIIa, ER/PR+, HER2-,
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Feb 23, 2012 07:28PM - edited Feb 23, 2012 07:30PM by jenn333

I asked my UCLA integrative oncologist about soy a couple of weeks ago during my individual counseling session with her.  She said the reason phytoestrogens raise the red flags with some medicos is that it does (can?) bind to the estrogen receptor of breast cells.  She said, though, that it's not a complete lock, doesn't prevent Tamoxifen doing its thing and doesn't act as a fuel to the cell.  (I'm sure I'm not explaining this correctly but that's as best I can remember.) 

 Anyhow she referenced a Chinese study of over 5,000 women.  They followed women who consumed soy but not Tamoxifen, women who consumed Tamoxifen but not soy, and women who consumed both Tamoxifen and soy.  The group with the lowest recurrence rate was the women who consumed both. 

She also said there was evidence that giving daughters of women who were diagnosed with BC two soy servings a day just before puberty reduced their risk of developing BC later in life.

 That said, about the only soy I consume is roasted soybeans occasionally.

Edited to add that she also recommended two tablespoons of ground flax a day which I add to my whey protein shake in the morning.

Dx 8/3/2011, IDC, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/13/2011 Mastectomy: Right; Reconstruction (right): DIEP flap Radiation Therapy 11/14/2011 Hormonal Therapy 1/27/2012
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Feb 23, 2012 09:36PM stage1 wrote:

I am not an expert, but all that I have read, and I have read a lot of studies and consulted my MO...studies done in different parts of the world, depends on where the soy comes from and if it is grown in selinium rich soil...which is different from our soy here in the US.  So it is hard to know ...my MO took me off flaxseed oil that I had been taking for dry eye.  And, again, it depends on where the flax is grown, I had heard negative things about flax grown in Canada.   I will look for my sources.

Dx 4/1/2011, DCIS/IDC, Left, <1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 7/19/2011 Arimidex (anastrozole), Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Left Radiation Therapy Whole-breast: Breast

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