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Topic: Lymph node negative tumors

Forum: Second or Third Breast Cancer — For those confronting a new primary diagnosis or undergoing treatment.

Posted on: Mar 26, 2014 09:18AM

Mausie wrote:

How many of you have had recurrences even though your tumors were lymph node negative to start with? I was told that was one of the important defining characteristics, but I got a recurrence after 7 years NED from a ER/PR neg HER+ tumor; second was ER/PR+ with HER2 neg, now on tamoxifen!  I have been noticing that most of the women who have recurrences also had positive lymph nodes to begin with. Any histories like mine? Thanks!

Mausie Dx 9/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 9/5/2006 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Chemotherapy 9/9/2006 Adriamycin (doxorubicin), Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil) Radiation Therapy 2/7/2007 Breast Targeted Therapy 3/1/2007 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Dx 9/9/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/11/2013 Lumpectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 9/17/2013 Femara (letrozole)
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Mar 26, 2014 09:21AM - edited Mar 27, 2014 07:54AM by Mausie

This Post was deleted by Mausie.
Mausie Dx 9/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 9/5/2006 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Chemotherapy 9/9/2006 Adriamycin (doxorubicin), Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil) Radiation Therapy 2/7/2007 Breast Targeted Therapy 3/1/2007 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Dx 9/9/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/11/2013 Lumpectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 9/17/2013 Femara (letrozole)
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Mar 26, 2014 09:31AM Nettie1964 wrote:

Mausie,

I've wondered the same thing, but only how some ladies show no lymph node involvement and then up with METS!  I would think that a local recurrence would not be as bad as mets!  Not that any of it is good!

Just want to clarify here that I did NOT have two dx! Just once I was done with chemo, the MO said I was 2% ER+! No longer taking Aromasin Surgery 12/11/2012 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Dx 12/12/2012, IDC, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Chemotherapy 3/13/2013 AC + T (Taxol) Dx 8/12/2013, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIB, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2- Radiation Therapy 8/24/2013 Breast, Lymph nodes
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Mar 26, 2014 11:32AM sandilee wrote:

I had negative nodes and a tumor less than 2cm that managed to metastasize.  Floated through the blood and settled in my bones, apparently.  

Dx 11/2007, IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/6 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2- Hormonal Therapy 1/10/2008 Aromasin (exemestane) Dx 6/2011, IDC, mets Radiation Therapy 6/30/2011 Bone Hormonal Therapy 7/15/2011 Faslodex (fulvestrant) Hormonal Therapy 4/10/2015 Femara (letrozole) Targeted Therapy 4/20/2015 Ibrance (palbociclib) Chemotherapy 8/4/2015 Xeloda (capecitabine) Hormonal Therapy 3/11/2016 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Chemotherapy 10/13/2016 Doxil (doxorubicin) Chemotherapy 4/4/2018 Navelbine (vinorelbine) Hormonal Therapy 6/6/2018 Faslodex (fulvestrant) Targeted Therapy 6/6/2018 Verzenio Chemotherapy 4/23/2019 Carboplatin (Paraplatin), Gemzar (gemcitabine)
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Mar 27, 2014 07:50AM Mausie wrote:

Oh Sandilee, I am so sorry! Your reality is my nightmare!  I am so scared of that, but they keep on telling me, oh, don't worry, you didn't have any positive nodes - I had a feeling that was not the only scenario, that it could metastasize. Now you confirm it. 

Well, I am wishing you sincerely, all the very best, and I am so sorry to hear that!  

Mausie Dx 9/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 9/5/2006 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Chemotherapy 9/9/2006 Adriamycin (doxorubicin), Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil) Radiation Therapy 2/7/2007 Breast Targeted Therapy 3/1/2007 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Dx 9/9/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/11/2013 Lumpectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 9/17/2013 Femara (letrozole)
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Mar 27, 2014 07:58AM Mausie wrote:

Nettie, thanks for answering. Yes, I just get scared, and sometimes I get the feeling that my docs have a cavalier attitude. Just FEAR I am sure!  

Mausie Dx 9/2006, IDC, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 3, 0/4 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2+ Surgery 9/5/2006 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel Chemotherapy 9/9/2006 Adriamycin (doxorubicin), Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Fluorouracil (5-fluorouracil, 5-FU, Adrucil) Radiation Therapy 2/7/2007 Breast Targeted Therapy 3/1/2007 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Dx 9/9/2013, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 9/11/2013 Lumpectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 9/17/2013 Femara (letrozole)
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Apr 28, 2014 03:41PM bluepearl wrote:

Negative nodes is still a good prognostic factor but it isn't 100%. Cancer cells can sneak into the bloodstream (called circulating tumor cells) even if  LVI is absent! I keep searching for that magic answer but it isn't there, We just have to do the best we can and help each other....and help research!!!

Dx 1/6/2011, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 2/12/2011 Lymph node removal: Left, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left Dx 2/2013, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 3/10/2013 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 3/18/2013
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Apr 28, 2014 03:43PM bluepearl wrote:

One can also have second primaries rather than recurrences too. Mausie, this looks like you and really hasn't too much to do with lymph nodes.

Dx 1/6/2011, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 1, 0/7 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 2/12/2011 Lymph node removal: Left, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left Dx 2/2013, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 3/10/2013 Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel; Mastectomy: Right Hormonal Therapy 3/18/2013
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Aug 2, 2020 03:57PM - edited Aug 2, 2020 03:57PM by Sharifah

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Aug 2, 2020 05:56PM kathabus wrote:

Hi...yes, I was going to suggest the possibility of a second primary, as well.

Although my BC was ER+/PR+, I can share with you my experience about what I learned about recurrences/metastasis. I had a positive lymph node, but through the Oncotype test we learned that my cancer wasn't associated with a high risk of metastasis. Not zero obviously, but low. So low that chemo was not recommended, even though I had a positive node. Positive nodes matter, of course....but they are not the only predictor of metastasis. The TYPE of BC you have matters....the stage you find it.....the grade.....it all factors in.



43 Years Old, Oncotype DX 10 Dx 2/17/2020, IDC, Right, 2cm, Stage IB, Grade 2, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 3/23/2020 Lumpectomy; Lymph node removal Radiation Therapy 5/14/2020 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes, Chest wall Surgery 7/20/2020 Prophylactic ovary removal Hormonal Therapy 8/20/2020 Femara (letrozole)
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Aug 3, 2020 11:03AM BlueGirlRedState wrote:

Mausie - this is the 3rd time BC for me. Nodes have checked negative. No metastatis to date. My oncologist thinks that each is a "new" cancer rather than recurrence, but admits, there is no way of knowing. Maybe she has too much confidence in treatments? A year ago, a genetic test looked for 20+ markers specific to BC, no known found. Negative nodes are a good thing. Probably no metastasis, surgery not as invasive. Losing all those nodes makes you much more prone to lymphedema. Neagtive nodes is good, but does not mean the initial cancer won't come back or a new one develop. I keep hoping for newer methods of very early detection, or better, prevention.

2009 ER+ left breast. 52 yrs. Lumpectomy, Sentinel node removal, negative. Radiation 6 weeks, tamoxifen 5 years. Dense lumpy left breast, normal right.

2016 ER+ left breast. Probably a new cancer, but unknown. 4 rounds TC Aug-Oct 2016, Bi-lateral (my choice) Nov 2016, no reconstruction. 2 sentinel nodes remove, negative. Started with anastrozole, quit because of immediate stiffness in hands, locking fingers, Started Tamoxifen after fingers cleared up.

6/18/2019 - Sept/2019 Noticed Swelling in R-arm, opposite side from where lymph nodes removed. Long story short. Trip to urgent care showed lots of fluid, but no clot. More imaging (CTs. PET), biopsy. Tumor R-axilla, cancer, no metastasis. Start Ibrance and Arimidex. Tumor shrunk 2.5 cm 7 mm(April CT). Fingers crossed that image next week can't find it.

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Aug 18, 2020 11:40AM KBeee wrote:

I was node negative and had 2 new tumors within 18 months.

Karen. Dx 8/5/2013, IDC, Right, 1cm, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC) Surgery 8/26/2013 Mastectomy: Left, Right Chemotherapy 9/20/2013 Cytoxan (cyclophosphamide), Taxotere (docetaxel) Hormonal Therapy 12/12/2013 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery 1/23/2014 Reconstruction (left); Reconstruction (right) Surgery 1/29/2015 Lumpectomy: Right Dx 2/2/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Grade 2, 0/0 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2- (FISH) Dx 2/25/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Grade 3, 0/13 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2- (IHC) Surgery 2/25/2015 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Right, Sentinel, Underarm/Axillary; Prophylactic ovary removal Chemotherapy 3/31/2015 AC + T (Taxol) Radiation Therapy 8/25/2015 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes, Chest wall Hormonal Therapy Femara (letrozole)
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Aug 18, 2020 11:55AM Beesie wrote:

I would guess that the significance of lymph node involvement relates more to metastatic recurrence than local recurrence. A relatively indolent cancer can still recur in the breast if a few cells were left after surgery and rads. But that same cancer might never move beyond the breast.

And maybe there are some cancers that thrive in the environment of the breast, and therefore are prone to local recurrences, but have no inclination to move any further.

Just speculating here. Happy

“No power so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” Edmund Burke

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