Fasting during Chemo?
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Canuckmom - I like that much better! So keto just means 15 g of carbs during that time period? That gets you to a fasting state? Let me know more! Very interested. Dr. Longo just gave me the basic 48/24 protocol of water fasting solely.
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Hi Daniella, Yes I believe the idea behind it is to keep your body in a ketogenic state. The cancer can't feed on a keto diet so it is similar to fasting. I would have continued the 72 hrs fasting but it's just not possible for me when it's once a week. So yes, keeping your carb intake to 15g or less is the goal when you are 24 hrs before chemo. When you get to 12 hrs before, switch to fasting, then 12 hrs after chemo continue fasting, then switch to keto when you are 12 hrs post chemo until you are 24 hrs out.
I did this for my first Taxol and I am feeling pretty good so far...it's only been a couple days though.
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Thanks Canuckmom! I'll consider it especially if I lost weight from last week.
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It is great to see a deeper discussion of fasting and sharing of tips and experiences. I sure hope it helps many more chemo patients.
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Canuckmom - I tried your nutritionists suggestion for today's infusion. First, keto diet open up my hunger and by last night I was eating whatever meat I could find. Then fasted completely until my infusion at 1:00. For the first time, I got really nauseas during premeds (weird?) and then had explosive D a few hours after chemo. I think next week I go back to water fasting only. It could have been something else that caused SEs but I'm going to try fasting again since I had none when I water fasted. Besides, the studies make it clear that having no or very low caloric intake is the key to increasing effectiveness. I think too much food, even keto, negates the effect.
How did you make out?
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oh no, Daniella! I am so sorry to hear that! I did ok...no gastro problems, but lots of body aches 3 & 4 days post infusion. My SE's have not been too bad (knock on wood). I can't slept at night though and tons of hot flashes then too. Sorry it didn't work for you...hope next one is better with your fasting. I strongly believe it works when you do it for 72 hrs, I just lose too much weight for weekly chemo.
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CanuckMom, props to you for that willpower! I'm on weekly Taxol like Daniella and I struggle with the 48 before and I wish I could do 72. Daniella, love the hangry comment!
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I am having more SEs this time for sure. Could be just the cumulative effect of taxol or the eating. I felt like eating keto for 12 definitely caused me to be hangrier than ever. It was easier to not eat at all then keto-to-fast for me. I cannot do 48 hours before. Too hard for me. I have treatments on Wednesday. So I stop eating after dinner Monday night. I break my fast usually 20-24 hours after chemo. Hot liquids - hot water with lemon especially - will stave off the hunger sometimes. (Lord, I sound like some anorexic model! Next I'll be eating cotton balls to fill my belly!)
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Hi everyone. I have been reading all of your posts regarding fasting. I asked my oncologist about it & of course she said absolutely not. But I'm a nurse & decided that sometimes doctors don't know best & not everything nor everybody is textbook. I had my port placed on Thursday so I had to be NPO after midnight for that. So water all day for me on Thursday until I gave in & fixed a peanut butter sandwich Thursday night. That was it nothing else. My first treatment was Friday, I had not eaten anything. My onco nurse suggested a protein shake, so I drank 2 of the Atkins. I had overwhelming waves of nausea last night. Still nothing to eat & am going to try not to until after 2 (I'll be 24hrs post treatment). I'm open for any suggestions. My regimen is A/C every 2 weeks for 4 cycles then weekly Taxol.
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so a few of us had issues with explosive diarrhea now. What is up with that? I thought originally it was just the chemo passing through unchallenged but then i wondered if it was because I broke my fast too soon. Then I wondered if it was the steroids on an empty stomach but aren't they supposed to constipate? Any other theories or explanations?
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Hi guys,
I am about to break my fast. I started fasting Wednesday around 1pm. All day Thurs and Friday (chemo day/CT). Now it's Saturday. I couldn't sleep all night, I am exhausted and have slight nausea. Took Dexamethaone 4mg this morning. But I don't think I will be feeling better until I eat.
Was it a mistake to follow this fasting without enough research? I just wanted to do everything to help save my hair (cold capping) and also save my good cells from the chemo. Maybe it's too early to tell if I will have fewer SE and less shedding. Anyone else doing CT 4x and fasting?
I'll check in a few days with updates. Wish me luck!
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SueBe - I did all my own research and contacted Dr. Longo, from the original study, as well as the clinical trial currently going on at the Mayo Clinic. The idea is that you have to fast for 48 hours to out your body into a fasting state. Then it must stay in that fasting state for 24 hours after to avoid toxicity to the liver. I had a link I posted earlier in the thread. By eating anything with protein, carbs and sugar, the effects are ruined. Do more research and you will see for yourself if you're interested.
Agness - explosive D because we did nothing but hydrate. I take it as a positive since most chemo drugs excrete through your feces. You have nothing but water and chemo coming out. I'll take D over C anyway. I drink lots of powerade zero when I get towards the end of my fast to replace electrolytes, magnesium, potassium and other minerals.
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SueBe, There are a lot of clinical trials going on at the moment regarding fasting and chemo... Unfortunately the results will be out in 2015 (too late to help any of us). I did fasting for my doses of AC. I still had side effects but much fewer than a lot of others on my chemo board. Of course I still lost my hair and had some nausea. I never vomited I had a little diahrrea (most others were constipated). No mouth sores etc. I am sure it helped but I never tried it the other way. If you aren't sure it helps try not fasting once and see what the difference is. All the research I did though seems to show it does help. BTW my oncologist was against it but I did it anyways.
DaniellaD, I am now just fasting 12 hrs pre chemo & 12 after. Also had D with my second round so going to see if eliminating keto will help (maybe too many fats).
Harrysmom, sorry my last post was confusing...I fasted for 72hrs total, 48 hrs before and 24hrs after....no way I could go longer than that! I lost about 15lbs over 3 mos so I am not doing for my weekly taxol.
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Thanks CankuckMom,
I had the worst nausea the day after chemo. I couldn't go the 24hours. Maybe more like 20. Ugh! I found no difference yet. Having the same nausea and fatigue so far..
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Started my fast last night for tomorrow's infusion. I've finished almost my first gallon of water have to get another gallon in today, then 2 tomorrow and Thursday to push that damn chemo out. I'm less hungry (hangry) today than I was last week when I tried to do keto first. Wish me no hunger pains until Thursday my fellow fasters and an easy fast to all those doing the same.
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I have been stuffing myself today after fasting, but I had great news from my onc yesterday. I have been keeping my weight up so she's now fine with the fasting! Also my tumor is no longer palpable during the exam- and it was over 3cms 7 weeks ago.
I am now convinced that the fasting is helping shrink the tumor and hopefully the mets- convinced enough to be afraid to stop fasting. Even though it sucks.
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Yeah harrysmom!! I didn't make it through my fast. At the end of my chemo session, maybe fro, so much water intake, I felt sick - not nauseous but I needed some crackers. I'm ok today. No SEs but we'll see how I am by day 3. Very disappointed but since Im not sick, I guess I should be thankful for that much. Will try again next week although I'm finding it harder and harder to do with each week bc I am feeling weaker. I guess it's different for the people receiving treatment every 3 weeks. Maybe I'll try Canuckmom's keto plan again. !,,
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I am going to try to the fast again but this time I'm doing the infusion in the morning. That way I wont have to wait so long the next day to eat.
My side effects are the same as the first infusion, that's good because they are supposed to get progressively worse. Just some nausea the first 3 days and fatigue. Bone pain is dealt with by the claritin and aleve 2x a day.
Hope you all have a peaceful and managable day.
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hi there even with naseous meds I still felt sick after chemo, so once I went home I would just have soup which I held down,but it is different for us all, what works for you might not work forme. Good luck and Hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to you all. msphil(idc,stage2, 0/3 nodes,L mast, chemo and rdas and 5 yrs on tamoxifen)
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Anyone had their 2nd A/C treatment, fasted and had the same results, better results or worse results. Just curious, going for my 2nd treatment on Oct 3. Planning to fast again. Only had the nausea & fatigue for 3 days. Other friends of mine & fellow survivors recommend that the anti nausea med be taken every 4-6hrs around the clock for the first 3-4 days after treatment. Any other suggestions out there?
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Gigi, yes I fasted for all my A/C treatments. All side effects were around the same...slightly worse as time wore on but I believe the fasting helps.
The oncologist should give you a number of medications on a schedule. The ones I could take every 4-6 hours, I alternated with gravol. So I would take the prescription med, then 2 hrs later Gravol, 2 hrs later the prescription med, etc. this was only the advice of the chemo nurse. They said as soon as you feel nauseous, take something. I also had emend, dexamethasone and zofran over the first 3 days on a schedule.
Good luck with your AC next week and if you do fast, it's 48 hrs before tx and 24 hours after....the after is easier as you don't feel like eating.
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Hi, I was just researching this topic for a friend undergoing chemo and was happy to find this thread, and that fasting has helped some of you. I found some articles and I'll post the links here in case anyone is interested.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21516129
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I also did the fasting before and after chemo, as well as Vit c infusions after each chemo. My oncologist was not supportive at all but I went with my naturopathic oncologist's advice. Along with a diet change...no sugar, no wheat, no dairy ( or small amount of organic), no alcohol and all food organic as well as juicing. At first this seemed hard, but once into chemo I had no food that tasted good anyways. I did the dose dense of ACT (4) as well as Dose dense Taxol (4) so the fasting was doable. In 4 months I I Lost almost 20 pounds but it came back after I was done treatments. I have to say I didn't suffer from many sideeffects other than hair loss and bone pain with the Taxol, as well as darkened fingernails. Took the steroids without food and did fine, also took Neulasta shots after each treatment.
I think that I tolerated the chemo much better because of the fasting, but each time I had to fast it was a bit harder, especially with the taxol, since my appetite returned then. Now when I get hunger pains It reminds me of those chemo days...
Hope this helps you to decide, Carrie.
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I eat before, during and after. No problems. I take my anti nausea meds and all has been well since I began chemo in August.
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I truly believe in the fasting. I was uncertain (very hungry) last week and decided not to fast. (Daniella: you mentioned you were finding it harder each week. Same here) Last week was tx 11 and I was too hungry. After fasting for 12 hours I started eating- I usually fast for 36-48hrs before treatment. God, do I wish I fasted. My SEs were much worse. I felt nauseous, hot and had awful headaches. Thursday is my twelfth and last and I will be fasting. I wish there were more studies out there documenting results but I know it works for me.
I'm going to come back and read this when I get very hungry
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I had to quit fasting around week 6. I think I had too much water plus saline during that session and was really sick - like if I didn't eat a cracker to soak it up I was going to start heaving. After that, I was just too weak and also failed to gain the weight back in order to fast. Harrysmom you are amazing for being able to do it weekly this long. My SEs got worse after I stopped fasting. I really wasn't so concerned about minimizing SEs but more about maximizing the effect of chemo. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to keep up with weekly treatment between losing too much weight and being too weak.
I believe the studies are true and really wish or hope I can fast for my last few sessions. Good luck and easy fast to anyone preparing for chemo. Harrysmom!!! Congrats on finishing!!
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yes, I became severely anemic and had to quit fasting too. I think it really helped me to get through AC, but taxol is different. The weekly fasting was too much.
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I just fasted 48hrs. I had chemo (CT) today and now feel acid and nausea. This didn't happen the first two fasts. I can't take anything until 24hours have passed. Do I need to be in this discomfort? Can I start taking the meds? I probably wont get a response immediately, but people who know might share the information with future fasters.
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please take your meds! When we are fasting we still take our meds - very important to do the prescribed ones. Good luck, hope your feeling better soon! If you need to take with food, try a few tbsp of avocado.
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Hi everyone, I will be starting chemo in two weeks and am interested in trying fasting. I have tried to read as much as I can on the subject and will run it by my MO but ultimately it will be my decision. Hoping that bumping this thread that there may be new information shared.
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