Struggling with "whole food plant based"
I am literally sat here crying - went online to get motivation and ideas and instead I became even more incredulous ... I was reading a website promoting the above diet listing possible meals but reading superlative adjectives added to the names of the dishes just felt so false and frustrating.. "delicious " stir fry of grain and vegetables , "wonderful" idea of adding quinoa to salads or "scrumptious " soy burgers or "satisfying" chile without meet - I was reading the names of the dishes and all of them felt complete opposite to how they were claimed to be.. I felt more repulsed by what felt like false enthusiasm than motivated ..
Anybody can relate ? How have you dealt with it ? Please note that I am stage 4 so this issue is far more pressing compared to other stages
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YES!!
I've done a good bit of reading on things to eat to help prevent recurrence.
I can do the fruits (apples, blueberries, strawberries, etc). Stone fruits that are organic are not easy to find, but can do non-organic canned or non-organic.
I can do a LOT towards the veggies - salad including spinach, cooked mushrooms, cruciferous veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts), onion / garlic; cooked tomatoes; summer squash; carrotsI'm trying to limit soy to one serving a day which is not overly processed (so no soy burgers, etc). I frequently have a smoothie with a cup of soy milk in the morning so that would be my soy for that day.
I have so much trouble, thought, with getting enough protein while eating mainly plant based. I should be eating more beans, quinoa, wild or brown ride, whole oats, etc - but it is hard to figure out and do.
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well, I find most vegan food IS delicious. It's not false enthusiasm because it really tastes yummy to me! And knowing that it's all cruelty free and healthy for me and good for the enviornment just adds to the pleasure I get from the food.
The flavours and textures of dishes don't have to come from animal products. Products and techniques have changed so much in the last years. I remember 1970s & 80s hippy vegan cooking and it was um, interesting lol. It's really different now!
But if you're struggling with transitioning to a WFPB way of eating, maybe just think about all the things you like to each which are *not* made with meat or dairy. Before restaurants started offering vegan options, many vegans ate out 'on the sides'. The side dishes were often vegan or easily veganized. What foods in your cupboard are plant based right now? Oatmeal? canned peas? brown beans in plain tomato sauce? mashed potatoes (mash with plant milk, add garlic and chives for a slightly different but similar taste)
There are many different ways of approaching this. Some people try to veganize their favourite recipes. Others don't like that because they think it will never be like they remember it and the comparison makes them not like it. So instead, they try completely new foods. Whatever you don't normally eat - like try some vegan dishes from a different culture's cuisine.0 -
DorothyB... how about Protein drinks. Would one a day fulfill the protein requirement? Some have 16gm and others more or less, up to around34gm, etc.
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I forget who says this, maybe Mark Bittman: vegan (or lower on the food chain) before 6PM. If you're already eating a non-meat breakfast, then try making your lunch a veggie-based soup or salad.
I don't like the meat substitutes myself, they taste like chemicals and way too much salt. So much as Moth posted, I make recipes that never had meat in them. If you like spicy foods, I can post some recipes I find super tasty, ones that my carnivore husband also loves.
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I really enjoy vegan food and do find it delicious. I'll also say that many diets or recipes online these days have unnecessary adjectives. Lots of recipes you'll find online seem to use the same web template with gushing, repetitive text and big photos, but may have a link that jumps over all that to the recipe. You might want to look at Eat for Life or Forks over Knives. I get a lot of recipes from these plans that I much prefer to animal-based recipes. I also like the vegan recipes from The Spruce Eats.
Best of luck!
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First I want to say....I am not a expert but I do love to cook plant based. Also you don't tell us if you are currently eating meat or dairy? If you are changing to plant based from those diets it WILL definately take a little bit for your taste buds to acclimate. I was a huge dairy lover....mainly cheese! But loved cottage cheese etc.etc.... I even ate fish from time to time. This was years ago. Our daughter got dx with fairly bad asthma. Someone said to try taking her off dairy as a first option. So we did. And it DID help her asthma.We started eating vegan around that time. But I had a real difficult time with getting off cheese. That took my tastebuds a while to change over.....it just is different tastes.
I was vegan when I got my cancer (almost entirely, cheated once in a while). But realized I was eating quite a bit of soy and also processed food. So I cut back. I have been alot more plant based now. I have cut oil pretty much entirely out of my diet. Also I don't eat soy much at all anymore.
I have a lot of good recipes. Not all vegan food tastes good. I would agree with you! I have burgers I make out of oats (in one of my recipe books) that people LOVE. Also have a great cheese sauce made out of cashews.
As far as protein.....you shouldn't need to worry about that. As all plant does have protein. When I have blood tests I am just fine. People worry about it because they are so used to eating so much protein on a meat based diet. But truly it is fine! Beans can add protein. But I get protein through plants.
This website has some good recipes: https://cookingwithplants.com/
also try this one: https://www.forksoverknives.com/
But I would say just know it is going to take time for your tastebuds to get used to eating this way.
I love the food I eat....but I love sauces and such on my foods. I agree eating mushy quinoa isn't always good. And eating stir fry with veggies isn't always good. It is good to have variety. I even have a vegan plant based pumpkin cheesecake recipe that is wonderful!
We are here to support you!!
Jon's Girl0 -
I'm going to offer a different opinion. Life is to enjoy. That's always true but is especially true if you are Stage IV.
There is no definitive proof that any diet will help prevent breast cancer, reduce recurrence or extend life. That said, obviously a well balanced, overall healthy diet is better. So do what you can. Eat what you enjoy, but if it's not the healthiest stuff, eat it in moderation and maybe over time slowly reduce how much you eat. Add whole foods to your diet slowly, and find recipes that interest you.
There is no benefit to your health in forcing yourself to eat foods you don't like and don't want to eat. It's not good for your mental well-being, and therefore it's not good for your health, to be crying because your diet choices are making you miserable. Diet is one factor; stress and anxiety is another. Forcing a 'healthy' diet that causes you stress and anxiety is not a good trade-off. Eat what makes you happy. You deserve that. And it's probably better for your health than forcing yourself to eat a diet that makes you miserable.
I'd suggest that you ask about this in the Stage IV forum and you'll see how different the answers are from what you've heard here.
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Hey, I am not eating vegan but I've been lacto-vegetarian in the past and funnily enough, lots of dishes I still eat and enjoy would be compatible with a vegan diet. It is going to depend on what you already like...but I'll share a couple of ideas based on what I like.
Lentil soup - with spinach or kale added. Lots of garlic and onion in the base because I like it that way.
Greens (kale, spinach, collards, etc) with just a little EVOO and garlic (again!). Add some red or white beans if you like, I like the dark red kidney beans with greens.
Butternut squash soup - don't have a recipe, sorry. But hopefully you can find one to your taste.
Roasted sweet potatoes with cinnamon and nutmeg.
Cauliflower roasted with a little curry powder and nutritional yeast sprinkled on top. Nutritional yeast is a good sub for cheese in some dishes - great on popcorn, too.
Broccoli prepared with marinara sauce (I use pecorino cheese on mine but maybe you could sub something else you like to add more flavor - cook it with bell peppers, maybe garlic)
A spinach salad with mushrooms, peppers, olives, other veg that you like.
Every meal doesn't have to have "a protein" as we are used to when we eat meat. You can snack on nuts for extra protein during the day.
You can make simple vegetable dishes more interesting with spices. You can see I am a garlic lover but it doesn't have to be garlic! Tarragon has very interesting flavor...great with carrots, cauliflower and in sauces.
Start with veggie dishes you already like, spice them up or bulk them up with beans (hopefully you like some forms of beans or legumes).
I don't do whole grains too much but when I was eating oatmeal I learned that I could put it on the electric grill and roast it and it tasted great with some sliced almonds or other nuts added. Can add cinnamon...put it on apple sauce if you aren't eating dairy...or find some coconut-milk yogurt if you are so inclined.
Good luck with it!
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wow Olma! I think I could eat almost all that you listed. I too struggle with eating much plant based foods. I like a bit of meat and like my dairy more. And I do NOT like to cook. Thank you
GAIL MARY
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thisiknow - googled protein drinks. Best seller on Amazon has glucose syrup as the second ingredient (after water). Second and fourth have milk as a main protein source (so not plant based). Third has milk & cane sugar. OK - Vega has one that has plant based protein that isn't soy
and Orgain has a vegan one that has sugar, but not soy or milk0 -
Dorothyb - I have used Vega, but prefer Plantfusion - I like the Vanilla flavor. I add frozen organic strawberries and almond or coconut milk, see link.
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Thanks, Dorothy, that's good to know. Now I know that a cow is not a plant!
Sometimes we just can't quite eat at all, and the drinks help until we can. I'll be looking a little closer at the other ingredients in the protein drinks for sure. Someone around here suggested that a little extra protein wouldn't hurt during radiation tx's to help with making new healthy breast cells.
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thank you, I did not expect so many responses , it is good.
Actually those were the forks over knives website's descriptions that I quoted that made me retch in despair. I will look deeper into the site for recipes..
I am sorry just eating raw veggies in salad does not taste good to me and I really struggle to see how it can taste good at all ... Adding legumes or grains to it does make it probably great nutrition wise but does not make it more appealing taste wise...
I like vegetables but mostly I like them cooked and with addition of something which is invariably animal based !
One of my all time favourites is a salad of lettuce tomato avocado and feta. Not much feta but workout it it does not taste the same !
Another one is fried onions and tomatoes (optional peppers etc) with added egg close to the end. Again , with no egg it's like half meal and no enjoyment.
Luckily I like pulses - but again , they taste half as good without addition of some meat. Just having stewed bread bean w/fried onions is good but I like it better w/meat.
Soups are ok without meat or meat stock ; ideally it would be with meat stock but with vegetable one it is good enough so as not to feel shortchanged.
I like porridge luckily and I am ok with it without butter and done on almond milk. Not as good but again , close enough so as not to feel miserable.
I love roasted root veggies but without meat completely it is not the same..
Cauliflower, broccoli , brussel sprouts etc - they do not fill me without either being fried in egg or added to at least some meat or cheese. I could eat cauliflower cheese with bread in white sauce as a comllete meal happily but it has cheese and milk in it .
I love curry, it is good with quorn - that's probably the only vegan meal in addition to nut roast that I find genuinely good and not missing anything ..
I think I will make list of ideas and recipes as I acknowledge in a certain proportion of cases I just default to non vegan options because that is what I am used to while I could be as happy with vegan option.
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Oh shoot, I eat butter all the time. In fact, my husband jokes that a roll at dinner is a carrier for butter for me. He's not wrong.
I agree w/ Beesie that your diet shouldn't be a source of frustration. If you like some meat in your soup, on your salad, wherever, then have some meat.
I personally need my food to have a ton of flavor. So Indian, Mexican and Thai cuisines are at the top of my list. For others, that would be like eating fire.
Oh--peanut butter is also essential for me. I eat that every day!
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anotherone,
I am also stage IV. I look at food the way Beesie does in her earlier post. I eat a healthy, balanced diet an nothing is off limits if it brings me pleasure. So, though I rarely eat meat, if I am craving meat, I will eat it and be happy. Stage IV is tough and for me, the added stress of worrying about everything I put in my mouth was too much. This is not a recommendation about what you should or shouldn’t do, just a different perspective
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Maybe a good method is to let yourself have small amounts of meat and dairy (hopefully grass fed organic) as a flavoring? You can cut back the proportion of animal food but still have it as a step one. I occasionally throw in feta, butter (ghee) or one slice of non-nitrite bacon in a recipe. I eat an occasional grass fed organic hamburger too. My animal food is <10% of diet at most.
Hummus and carrot sticks is a good healthy thing thats pre-made. Me having "approved" foods in the cupboard that are "no work" helps me stick to plant based. Almonds, walnuts, seeds; almond butter (home ground) w/ sliced apple are all easy snacks.
The recipes on Valter Longo's website are very good normal Italian food recipes... Before meat got cheaper most traditional Italian food was whole food vegan, and very tasty. Using fish (like anchovy flavors a caesar salad) can be a good flavor enhancer too.
I try to use anti cancer veggies for flavor: ginger root, onions, leeks, shallots, mushroom, peppers, herbs and spices, curries, etc. You can get flavored olive oils like truffle olive oil. My old Italian roommate used to throw a hot pepper into the oil, sautee it, then scoop the pepper out, discard it, and use the infused oil to start her pasta sauce... The zing stayed in the oil. This works w other flavors too.
Roasting veggies ensures they are much more flavorful than blanching or boiling. 350 degree oven for ~20 minutes or so for whole brussels sprouts, cut-up broccoli, cubed squash, etc. Drizzle w a small amount of olive oil and minced garlic. I love eggplant fried in garlicky olive oil... it has a "meat" feeling as a sandwich ingredient or layered with sliced tomato and basil. There's a sauce called chimichurri that's herbs and veggies (a bit like pesto) that can go on anything.
Re protein drinks, one way to get more protein is use organic whey protein isolate (powder). My Integrative MO said it's ok. A scoop of that in a smoothie of coconut yogurt (Cocoyo, plain) & nut based kefir (Califia) plus berries and ice is a good homemade "protein drink."
If you like sprouts the radish and other sprouts have a lot of flavor too.
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Really liking Beesie's post also. I've kind of given up on the "plant based" part of my nutritional eating plan for the short term, but still concentrating on eating my fruits and veggies.
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I am mostly vegan and was eating a TOTALLY whole food plant based diet when I was dx'd, no cheating whatsoever. I ate no meat, dairy, eggs, processed foods (flour, sugar, etc), nothing with artificial flavors or colors, nothing deep fried. Got cancer anyway.
All that being said, I agree with Beesie.
I also agree that vegan foods are pretty tasty. It takes a while getting your tastes acclimated to a plant based whole foods diet. The first few weeks of eating this way are the hardest. For me, going cold turkey as an induction was the way to go. In the past, whenever I tried different diets I would try to ease into them and the cravings never went away, which made it really hard to stick to those diets. But that's just me.
I think eating a whole food plant BASED diet is good for everyone, but I see no reason why this base cannot include some healthy meats and dairy on occasion. If your cancer is HR+, I'd stick to low fat or fat free dairy just because those have less hormones (according to what little research is out there, which is scant and not the best quality, but its all we have).
I now eat a mostly vegan whole foods diet with some fish about once a week on average. I rarely eat eggs. Even more rarely eat dairy, usually just when I feel like I need the probiotics (fat free yogurt) or when I'm cheating on my diet and eating a cookie or something with eggs and/or dairy in them. But most nights I eat lentils, beans, tofu, or tempeh for protein.
I don't know how old you are, but older people should increase their protein intake, which may make it difficult to fulfill your protein needs with a completely plant based diet.
Also, if you want a whole foods plant based protein shake: peanut flour + cacao powder + soy/almond/cashew/etc milk + a ripe banana is really yummy! I get organic peanut flour in 2lb bags off Amazon. Using that instead of peanut butter cuts down on the fat and omega-6 content.
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Hi, I also agree with Beesie everything in moderation. I not giving up a glass of Pinot Noir or an occasional slice of pizza. I do enjoy a good black bean or veggie burger as well as a burger and fries. I'm a fan of Dr. Oz and have learned a lot from his book "Food Can Fix It" It is written in a user friendly way. He talks about lean meats, lots of vegetables, grains, fish, spices, smoothie recipes, what to eat for breakfast as well as eating out. He also talks about what are good protein sources and what to snack on. I have a smoothie 6 out of 7 days for bkfst. I use Orgain Organic Protein & superfoods. I throw in some baby spinach/kale, collagen powder, and frozen fruit like mango. Eating healthy like he does is not something I know I can do, but I know I can make some healthy changes if I know how. He loves peanut butter and cottage cheese!
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thank you all for your contributions.
I am going to make another thread in which I will be writing all plant based whole food meals that I like so that I could refer to it to refresh my.memory when I feel stuck on what to eat/cook . Hope it will benefit from comments and ideas as well as who knows - may be someone like me will read it one day , will be able to relate and it will help them...
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I'm doing good with the "plant based" part of eating. What I'm not doing good with is the "whole foods". I rely heavily on processed Vegan foods due to my lack of time for both shopping and cooking. I've also found it difficult to get out of the meat, starch, vegetable mindset when creating my plate. I still work full time with a 45 minute commute each way. I've found YouTube very helpful for learning recipes. My oncologist recommended a whole foods, plant based diet so I'm really trying.
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Thank you for bringing the thread up again , brilee.
An update - I stopped trying to eliminate meat/dairy. I eat whatever I want to. I do think about it though and if I eat something unhealthy I do it consciously - not sure whether it makes sense. When I think what to cook I think first about something on anticancer lines , the same when buying stuff. If I want something sweet or dairy or meat or even processed food ( rarely but happens ) I have it but often if I start thinking about healthier stuff first I have an idea of something I would like before I get to less healthy option. May not be enough - I hope I will shift into the right direction bit by bit. I think it is difficult to start changing as we all have our staple diet and are kind of in a rut. Thinking about it we need just about a dozen of new dishes and a couple of snacks to change the whole diet almost completely and as all of us already have some favourite healthy stuff it is even easier. That is if not doing vegan completely- just WFPB with 80/20 should be very doable. 🙂
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There was a study out that compared people who ate a "healthy" diet but did not enjoy it vs people who ate what they relished, sometimes with not ideal/healthy options. Guess who did better? Yup, the ones who enjoyed their meals. Eating healthy and dreading every meal won't confer the benefits, so focus on Beesie's post and enjoy each day, looking forward to your meals!
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But there's no reason why wfpb can't be as enjoyable & thrrads like this exist to share recipes,tips and tricks to make it yummy. It's not meant to be a martyrdom
And vegans are happier https://www.treehugger.com/amp/vegans-happier-meat-eaters-...
I'll be back later with some of our current fave recipes
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yes please to recipes !
I have become even worse with my food decisions - not batting an eyelid about buying ready made cake , baking a cake and eating bbq with non organic meat ( not organised by me to be fair , if it is done by me it is organic but it is still meat )
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Oh I have so many recipes from so many sites--here are a few to get you started.
You can't go wrong with Nora Cooks, I've loved nearly every recipe of hers I've made.
I also like Cookie & Kate, although if you want vegan, then read those recipes before you start as they also include vegetarian recipes.
Similarly, Minimalist Baker includes vegetarian recipes but you can also filter for vegan (look at the top of the home page).
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You can also look at the Whole30 site and focus on the non-meat recipes if you are trying to reduce meat. That way you are whole food and more plant based. Meal prepping is also helpful as you can cook once and eat more than once. I am naturally inclined to be more plant based as I am a salad/vegetable/fruit eater with the desire for more minimal meat/protein, but I found that following the Virgin Diet was a good mix of low sugar, clean lean protein, lots of salad/veggies, and a reduction in processed food. Eating this way significantly reduces soy, sugar, dairy, eggs, corn, peanuts and gluten, and is definitely not for everyone, but has worked very well for me as I have some food sensitivities. Pinterest seems to be the best source of recipes online for that plan, but I do have the recipe book on my e-reader.
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Moth, threads like these are here to help alleviate the stress and guilt that comes with what is imagined as healthy. Not everyone starts at the same place.
I think there is a huge area between "eating healthy" and "eating junk." For some people, that gap seems overwhelming.
To me, the easiest suggestion is make a list of the foods you like. Do you like chicken? What ethnic flavor do you enjoy (mexican? Italian? Asian?) and how much time do you have to make it. So if you like chicken, that is a healthy food and you can make a simple stir fry with veggies you like; Or make a bean casserole or stew that includes chicken parts you like. You can make a chicken enchilada if you like Mexican and add a small salad or slaw with it.
Thinking in terms of what you do enjoy and how you can make it with the least amount of processing can help alleviate that big umbrella of "what is healthy."
If you don't like grains (quinoa or brown rice), figure out what you do like...sweet potatoes that can be roasted or mashed? refried beans to go with a mexican meal?
And if you aren't naturally into cooking at home, think about how you can flesh out a whole meal with the purchase of a simple entree....instead of buying "all the fixin's" to eat at home.
Grass fed beef to make burgers and then pick some sides you like.
When you read a website and they throw a ton of foods (and especially new-to-you), it is overwhelming. It takes time to figure out where it would fit in your preference of meal style.
I bet 90% of what you are eating (unless you are only doing take out and buying processed boxed foods) already qualifies as healthy. And frozen veggies and fruits are considered healthy...keep that in mind if you think buying fresh and figuring out the use is overwhelming.
And again, I think threads like this ARE helpful and peoples' sharing of their eating is helpful. And realizing that the 80/20 rule helps you achieve your goal and doesn't overwhelm you or give you guilt....that's a win.
It is very difficult to cut out huge swaths of food...and one shouldn't, IMHO. If you want to cut out meat and find it hard, why not use a lot less of it and add the veggies/sides to take up the space. Or make 1 or 2 days/week vegetarian and buy a few healthier meats during the week. Fish is a good substitute. Grass fed meats are alternatives too. The new plant-based meats are supposed to be just like meat, but I've not tried them so cannot comment.
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Hmm, when I google whether vegans are happier I come up with many articles that say just the opposite or that it doesn't matter. One example: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-an...
Personally I'm a huge lover of vegetables, so I naturally eat a lot of them. I've found that belonging to a local CSA (community supported agriculture) is helpful, I receive fresh, organic produce every week during the growing season. I'm also an avid cook, so I don't mind taking a lot of time preparing food. I'm lucky that I can do that with my work and personal commitments, many people can't. I'm a meat eater, too. Because I adore animals I feel like a hypocrite and don't eat meat every day, but I have an autoimmune illness that causes some food sensitivities (most fruit, and eating something like just a large salad for a meal will make me pretty sick as well) and eating meat gives me energy and helps me feel good.
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It's funny, when people learn I don't eat any animal products, they usually rush to tell me (a) why they couldn't do the same or (b) they eat very little meat.
And frankly I don't care. I'm not judging anyone's diet or food choices, that's a huge waste of time and energy and really why do it? The same is true about whether someone works out regularly or not. It's none of my business.
Having said that, if anyone on this thread is interested in no-animal product recipes, I will happily oblige.
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