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Flaviarose and Fluffqueen01,yes, I use the coconut oil to lubricate the "nether regions"
, and it has made a world of difference for me, thankfully. As for the olive oil, my MO told me that cold-pressed, virgin olive oil has been proven to control inflammation, lower "bad" cholesterol, aid in brain development and blood clotting. The polyphenols in olive oil, as he explained to me, are great anti-oxidants that keep the linings of blood vessels healthy. CAVEAT. . . CAVEAT. . .: While I was receiving my chemo and radiation, my MO and RO both emphasized NOT to take anti-oxidant supplements as they weaken the effects of the treatmentS. My MO told me about olive oil at my January 2013 meeting, and I waited till one week after radiation before I began to drink a tablespoon daily. Here is some more info., about olive oil:Health benefits of olive oil
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Olive oil has distinct flavor and taste. Unlike many other oils, which are extracted from nuts and seeds, the oil is obtained from the olive fruits and hence, contains large amounts of plant-derived anti-oxidants, phyto-sterols, and vitamins.
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Olive oil is recognized as one of the healthiest edible oils since it contains less saturated fats, and composes linoleic (omega-6) and linolenic acid (omega-3) essential fatty acids at recommended 8:1 ratio.
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The oil is high in calories. Its high-calorie content is because of its fats. However, it is especially rich in mono-unsaturated fatty acids (MUFA) like oleic acid (18:1) and palmitoleic acid (16:1) that help to lower LDL or "bad cholesterol" and increase HDL or "good cholesterol" in the blood. Research studies suggest that Mediterranean diet, which is rich in monounsaturated fatty acids help to prevent coronary artery disease and strokes by favoring healthy blood lipid profile.
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Olive oil, especially extra virgin, contains tyrosol phenolic compounds such as oleuropein and oleocanthal. These compounds are responsible for its bitter, and pungent taste. Oleocanthal, oleurpein, and its derivative hydroxytyrosol are nature’s most powerful anti-oxidants. Together with vitamin E and carotenoids, they play a vital role fighting against cancer, inflammation, coronary artery disease, degenerative nerve diseases, diabetes…etc.
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Studies suggest that oleocanthal has ibuprofen (NSAID) like ant-inflammatory activities. Mediterranean diet that uses olive oil may be responsible in part for the low incidence of coronary artery disease.
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Being a vegetable source, it has very high levels of plant sterols, especially β-sitosterol. The FDA has approved the following claim for phytosterols: "Foods containing at least 0.4 gram per serving of plant sterols, eaten twice a day with meals for a daily total intake of at least 0.8 gram, as part of a diet low in saturated fat and cholesterol, may reduce the risk of heart disease." Phyto-sterols competitively inhibit cholesterol absorption in the gut and thereby can reduce total cholesterol levels by 10% to 15%.
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Olive oil is rich in vitamin E. 100 g fresh extra-virgin oil contains 14.39 mcg (about 96% of RDA) of alpha-tocopherol. Vitamin E is a powerful lipid soluble antioxidant, required for maintaining the integrity of cell membrane of mucus membranes and skin by protecting it from harmful oxygen-free radicals.
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In addition, extra-virgin oil is also a very good source of vitamin K; 100 g provides about 50% of DRI. Vitamin K has a potential role in the increase of bone mass by promoting osteotrophic activity in the bone. It also has established role in Alzheimer's disease patients by limiting neuronal damage in the brain.
See the table below for in depth analysis of nutrients:
Olive oil (Olea europaea),
Nutritional value per 100 g.
(Source: USDA National Nutrient data base)Principle Nutrient Value Percentage of RDA Energy 884 Kcal 44% Carbohydrates 0 g 0% Protein 0 g 0% Total Fat 100 g 500% Cholesterol 0 mg 0% Dietary Fiber 0 g 0% Vitamins Folates 0 µg 0% Niacin 0 mg 0% Pantothenic acid 0 mg 0% Pyridoxine 0 mg 0% Riboflavin 0 mg 0% Thiamin 0 mg 0% Vitamin A 0 IU 0% Vitamin C 0 0% Vitamin E 14.39 mg 96% Vitamin K 60.2 µg 50% Electrolytes Sodium 2 mg 0% Potassium 1 mg 0% Minerals Calcium 1 mg 0% Copper 0 mg 0% Iron 0.56 mg 7 % Magnesium 0 mg 0% Manganese 0 mg 0% Phosphorus 0 mg 0% Selenium 0 µg 0% Zinc 0.01 mg <1% Phyto-nutrients Carotene-ß 0 µg -- Crypto-xanthin-ß 0 µg -- Lutein-zeaxanthin 0 µg -- Phytosterols 221 mg -- Selection and storage
In the markets, several different grades of olive oil are displayed for sale. Buy fresh, cold-pressed oil using mature, greenish-yellow olive fruits, since it is purest and superior in flavor and rich in anti-oxidants. Native oil extracted using traditional methods is devoid of chemicals, less acidic, has highest smoke point and long shelf life.
Extra virgin oil can also be cold pressed, however, using machines, without adding chemicals or excessive heat. It has acid content of less than 0.8%. Follow this are virgin at 1.5% and ordinary virgin oil at less than 3%.
Pomace olive oil is refined oil obtained from the final pressings under high heat and pressure. It is inferior in quality and generally not used for cooking.
Since adulteration is quite common check for authenticity of the product. Look carefully for "best before," "virgin," "native cold pressed"...etc. Buy extra-virgin oil certified by the COOC (California Olive Oil Council) or IOC (International olive oil council).
Always store olive oil in tightly sealed containers and place in a cool, dark place away from heat or light.
Culinary use
Olive oil is the chief edible oil of Mediterranean, Asia Minor, as well as North African regions. However, its use is fast spreading across the continents among health-conscious people.
Olive is one of the most sought-after culinary oil used either in raw foods (salad dressing, gourmet oil) or for deep-frying and sautéing vegetables, meat and poultry.
Here are some serving tips
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Andalusian salad-is a specialty from the Andalusia province of Southern Spain uses tomatoes, cucumber, onion, bell pepper, thyme herb, with added extra-virgin oil.
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Eggplant fry in olive oil with tomatoes, onions, capers seasoned with black pepper and salt is a favorite Italian recipe.
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Olive tapenade-This is a kind of traditional dip originated in the South of France made with black olives, walnuts, onion, garlic, pepper with added lemon juice. It can be served as a spread or as a dip.
Safety profile
Olive oil can be safely used on a daily basis. Unlike some nuts and seed oils, it has no allergic agents. (Disclaimer)
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I love it and the cold pressed version is all I use. Do you just pour it in a tablespoon and chug it? And...I love, love, love olive tapenade...although that means I am eating it on all the bread I love also, lol.
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MarisaC How did I not notice you were from MA! I grew up on the S. Shore. Went to UMass, Amherst my 1st 2 years of college.
UMass Memorial, that's the one in Worchester. It's a teaching hospital if I remember correctly (that's a good thing). I seem to remember they have an excellent reputation. I agree that both Dana Farber (#5) and MGH(#7) are some of the tops in the country for cancer. There were 2 treatment centers rated higher in Chicago than the place I went. All were easy to get to. But for me it was all about my doctors being the right ones to treat me. UMass Memorial is high performing hospital in cancer: linky & linky I would go for 2nd opinions at either Dana Farber or MGH. I think if I had a more advanced stage I might consider Dana Farber. We have a Cancer Treatment of America out here and I wouldn't consider going there unless I had mets.
AlaskaAngel I was 49 at diagnosis. Finished my last chemo 2 weeks before my 50th birthday. Barely in my 40's. I'm almost 2.5 years out from last chemo. It seems like a long time ago. I stopped being a cancer patient in my mind in March of 2012 when my tatts were finally healed.
Ashla thanks for posting the article. I love "at least a 2 cm difference in circumference between their affected and unaffected arms." I'm a righty so my right arm, that doesn't have LE has always been bigger than my left. Granted my swelling isn't that bad.
coconut oil etc. I would be careful regarding using a non water based lubricant during chemo. Higher risk of infection. Check with your onc to see if this is OK.
Virgin Olive Oil Use it all the time. Only time I use a different oil is when making Asian… then it's peanut oil. I saute most of my veggies in it instead of steaming.
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Flavia, I'm glad you feel at peace with your decision. It sounds like your route is the one that most of us have gone through, and as it has been said, it is not pleasant but it is doable. Just for the record, I made an appointment with Dr. Slamon, who invented herceptin, as he is local for me. I asked him why not herceptin alone, and he said that herceptin works synergistically with the chemo. He's not a huge chemo fan but believes it's necessary along with herceptin for her2+ women. There were some very small, early studies that were not double blind but included stage IV her2+ women who were willing to do herceptin but refused chemo. Those women did not do as well as similarly situated women who did the chemo + herceptin. Alaska correctly points out that these are late stage women, but still I presume the mechanism is the same. I don't have a medical background so at some point I just have to figure that I should follow the advice of the people with all the years of training....
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Welcome Flaviarose, and, so sorry. I did have TCH x 6 and Herceptin. I was one of the few who had to stop Herceptin early. I also had to have my tx adjusted because I had some major SEs. And you know what? I'd do it again, make the same choices if I got a do over. Well, unless I could skip it completly! LOL. I need to explain this a bit, so bear with me.
It is a big choice go decide go poison yourself in the hope of getting more of a chance at life. You need as much info as you can get, evaluate all you read, and make choices based on your personal experiences.
I was post menopausal by three years when Dx. I was 57 at Dx. I read about the tx recommended, and insisted on a BMX, although they said I was elegible for a LX. But, see, here is where my personal experience came into play. My mom passed away from bc. She was 66 at Dx. Had a BMX, rather than a uni due to her sisters who passed from bc, Dx in onr breast, found too late in the other breast as well. No chemo, because they told her a BMX was enough, when they found bc in the so called prophalacticly removed breast. She passed away at 76 due to a.recurrence.
Now, my story. I chose the BMX, and guess where they found the invasive? Uh,huh! The side they did not expect. Now, based on what you just read, can you guess WHY I chose BMX, and chemo and would do it again? I always had a BMX in the back of my mind since my Mom passed filed under "what would I do if" . I would have fought for chemo, and was glad that I didn't need to. Even though I was scared because of SEs, and actually ended up in the hosp from some and meds messed me up too. But, that is part of my reason to choose that route. How could I NOT take what was offered in order to give myself a better shot. I did not go into it blindly, I had bad SEs, but I am still glad I gave myself that chance. I may have future SEs that I do not know of yet, but you make your decision based on what you know at THAT time. That's all anyone can do. Sorry for the long post, but if you decide to go that route, you will get through it, and whatever SEs you have, and we all hope and pray that they are minimal. Much love0 -
Moonflwr912, with your family history, I think I would have made the same decision, reluctantly or not. The odd thing is that I have a huge family history also of breast cancer on both sides -- but out of the whole string of family that have had bc, only one died of bc (one who diagnosed "late", back in the 1950's), and none recurred. I grew up around it--aunts, grandma, cousins, sister.... None of the family did chemotherapy other than me. My older sister was dx'd with IDC 2 years before I was, and refused chemo and did just 2 weeks of tamoxifen, and has never recurred in 13 years, although since then she was dx'd 2 years ago with IBC and that time she did chemo and is now on Arimidex, and remains stable with no recurrence of IBC.
cypher, it would be interesting to talk with Slamon, and I'd challenge his position. 1) Many drugs have been tried solo for mets w/o success due to the greater tumor burden with mets, so even with Slamon I would still argue that in comparison with a very limited tumor burden, solo drugs would stand much more likelihood of success. 2) Generally those with mets have had prior chemotherapy and the effects of that upon the immune system, whereas those who are early stage and have had no chemotherapy but receive trastuzumab would have a chemo-naive, stronger immune system to work with....
A.A.
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I think I read somewhere that there is a trial going on of Herceptin alone for early stage women - with the participants being "elderly". Hopefully I'm not dreaming this up...anyone else heard of this?
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Ha ha ha! I do sometimes wonder if I'm in a spa. My cancer center is one of the funkiest places I've ever been. They had bunny rabbits and easter eggs in the fish tank a few months ago ;-)
Ashla, I too am thrilled to see the transparency in pharma trials these days. It was tough to get the companies to comply since there was so much competition during the "blockbuster era". My company (Roche/Genentech) has been going that way for a long time. Interestingly enough, as a global corporation, we had to start by making our trials transparent internally. I worked on that years ago and it was interesting. We went from thinking we had a few hundred studies going to find out we actually had thousands!!
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PatinMN, you are correct, for those aged 70 there is such a trial. But the drawback is that HER2 positive disease is more prevalent for younger patients, so accrual may be slow for that trial. Despite that I hope the enrollment is enough to produce good information either way.
A.A.
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Perhaps a good place to donate for BC research and progress ?.Recommended by Peggy Orenstein
http://bcaction.org/0 -
More from Peggy Orensteim on Breast Cancer Action an advocacy group she believes has tbeir priorities right and may make a big difference. http://peggyorenstein.com/blog/outtakes
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It is nice to get to know you all, and thank you all for the wonderful advice and support. I have a question - has anyone had the genetic testing for the BRCA 1 and 2 genes? I had an aunt who had ovarian cancer, so they said I should get the test - had blood drawn yesterday.... and another comment - I was googling strategies to minimize side effects of chemo and I came across something that I thought was interesting - this one person said that you should fast for 2 days before a treatment - that when you fast your healthy cells go into a kind of hibernation mode and the chemo doesn't affect them as much... has anyone heard of that? This is probably a topic for the alternative boards, but haven't had time to go cruising on these boards too much - and I feel I'm getting to know you ladies a little bit..... other things I've read are to stay really really hydrated.... any other suggestions?
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I am so grateful for all that Rose achieved in our behalf.
I was tested for BRCA 1 and 2 in 2003 because of an aunt with ovarian cancer and the many in my family who were diagnosed with bc, and I am a participant through Seattle in the development of better blood testing for ovarian cancer in the Early Detection of Ovarian Cancer clinical trial. My BRCA testing came back negative for both BRCA 1 and 2 but with some characteristics that Myriad said potentially could be identified and useful at a later date. Myriad promised that if those were identified at some future point they would notify me, but in the 10 years since being tested by them I have never been notified by them of any further analysis results.
A.A.
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flaviarose I too was tested for the BRCA genes. I tested negative as well. I would discuss with your onc about starving before chemo. Yes I did read about it a while ago. I think Tonlee might have tried it but not sure. To be honest I would think that you need to keep up your strength. Really the best thing you can do is exercise everyday. I know when I stopped after TX 4 (or just didn't do it as much) I think that's why the SE increased, especially being tired at the end of the day.
BTW do you teach at one of the 5 colleges?
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flavia - I am adopted so was tested for BRCA prior to surgery - I was a lumnpectomy candidate but my surgeon would have advised a BMX if I had been positive - I self-elected BMX anyway even though I tested negative.
There was at least one thread dedicated to fasting prior to chemo, link(s) below:
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Hi ladies....my surgery follow up was today, as well as meeting my MO. Both went well....path report as follows...2 lymph nodes taken....0 had cancer...YAY! My Stage was re-designated as Stage 1 (instead of 2) ...however my grade moved up to 3 on everything.
New MO (loved her) said due to the HER2+ and aggressive type grade she is ordering an Oncotype test and an AIB1 test to help decide what chemo to get with the Herceptin. Radiation will be every day for 5 weeks after "short" chemo...along with Herceptin. Also being sent for genetic testing.
I will update again after May 15......0 -
DanaM, so glad to hear you are considered stage 1, with 2 clear lymph nodes out of 2!
Although there MAY be others who knowingly have been tested for AIB1, if you are tested for it as a HER2 positive, you are the first individual I have heard of to knowingly receive it. It would be very interesting to hear any information you can share here with us about that.... whether the doctor seemed aware of and familiar with having it done, or whether she is going to look into it, etc. etc. It would be interesting to know whethr it is an IHC test (immunohistochemistry).
The AIB1 test also can be used for those who are HR negative, since a larger percentage of HR negative patients tend to have a high AIB1 level. Only about 1/3 of those who are HER2 positive tend to have a high AIB1 level.
Sounds like things are moving along for careful analysis for you!
A.A.
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A.A. As soon as I have info on my test results (May 15) I WILL SHARE. The MO mentioned that being HER2+ throws some wrenches in the works and she wants me to receive the correct drugs....I guess sometimes our +++ can make Herceptin not as receptive as they want with certain AIB1 results......I go to the Cleveland Clinic and I seem to have tests automatically that others don't. ?...it seemed to make sense though....
Dana......how can I make you smile today? (My vm meassage for my travel business.....I better take my own suggestion...lol)
Dx 3/18/2013, IDC, <1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+Radiation Therapy ExternalSurgery 04/18/2013 Lymph Node Removal: Sentinel Lymph Node Dissection (Left)Surgery 04/18/2013 Mastectomy (Left); Prophylactic Mastectomy (Right); Reconstruction (Both)0 -
Thanks for discussing it with your MO, DanaM. I'm just another patient who happened to know some history about it, which I passed on here.
Unless it happens to be one of the tests that is perhaps used as part of the multitesting like Oncotype Dx or Mammaprint, it hasn't been standard testing for bc patients. It sounds like you will be receiving both Oncotype Dx as well as separate AIB1 testing, and if so, then it is not part of Oncotype Dx.
In 2003 it was just noted as part of a clinical trial that for about 2/3 of HR negatives as well as for 1/3 of HER2 positives, the HER2 positives with the higher AIB1 levels did worse on tamoxifen. It sounds like finally a more standardized testing process for AIB1 just might be available now. If it is truly useful in determining more accurate targeting of treatment, that is very exciting.
I hope your testing is negative for a high AIB1 level, or if not, that at least the testing will be used to help you avoid treatment that is less likely to work well.
A.A.
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Moon, that is really interesting about your family history. I hope the more aggressive treatment path you took will serve you well!
Alaska, also interesting about yours. I hope this is a trend, for selfish reasons, because my mom had it and never recurred. She had a radical bmx, but that was before they did lumps, and anyway I did chemo and she didn’t.
Re Dr. Slamon, you’re right about #1, but he would agree with you. It’s just that there aren’t studies that back it up – mostly because they haven’t been done. Re point #2, actually these were women who were newly diagnosed at stage IV an had not had chemo before, and either a) took chemo + herceptin, b) took chemo only, c) took herceptin only, d) none of the above. Group a) did much better than the other groups.
Flavia, Re genetic testing, it’s a good idea. I had it and I tested negative for both genes. My impression is that her2+ women typically don’t test positive for brca.
Dana, wow really interesting about the AIB1 testing – I didn’t realize that was available yet? I’m sure we’d all be interested to hear more about that from you.
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Flavia,
I am an extremely fit adult, 41 at the time of diagnosis.
I don't recommend fasting AT ALL. This is why:
1. Leading up to my 1st tx, and the week following it, I consumed the exact same amount of calories I always do. And fasted my regular 2-3 days a month. (I am a calorie counter right down to the condiments I use....I know within 20-40 calories a day exactly how much I eat. Had to get serious about that when my thyroid stopped working some years back.)
I spent 5 days in the hospital. A nutritionist came to see me and I learned a lot from her. Chemo works by destroying rapidly dividing cells. We have non-cancerous rapidly dividing cells naturally in our bodies (like in the GI tract)..so chemo attacks that as well and destroys it to some degree.
If you do not consume adequate amounts of protein, every cells building block, your body can't heal. Period. And each treatment you will take longer to bounce back, and by the end, you'll be wiped.
I believe the reason I became so ill was because my body didn't have enough "energy" and protein to rebuild what chemo destroys.
When I adjusted my protein intake to 80-100 gms a day (FAGE yogurt, big staple for me)...I was never ill again...and worked out every single day the rest of chemo, including the 3-5 days after.
2. Once I was done with hard chemo, and just on Herceptin, I started back on my fasting 2-3 days a month. One of those days happened to fall on a Herceptin day. It was hard to determine if Herceptin had SEs because after hard chemo, everything seems better when just on Herceptin.
Anyway, I became very tired that afternoon. Which was a first. So tired I couldn't stay awake and actually took a nap (something I didn't do on hard chemo). Later that night for over 4 hours, while I sat on the couch and watched tv my heart rate was over 160bpm (usually it is 45-55).
That was my last Herceptin. My EF dropped and they had to stop tx. I believe that last tx wouldn't have dropped me down so far had I NOT FASTED!! My heart has STILL not recovered.
I think my body was attempting to keep my heart strong, repair damage, but after 6 months of hard chemo, and then the stupid fast, there was just simply no reserve left.
All that to say this. We know eating while on chemo doesn't harm you. We can't say the same about FASTING. There was a woman on BCO at the time I was in chemo. She talked about how "Amazing" she felt fasting before tx, and then next I read from her, she was very ill, and suffering months after chemo stopped.
Learn from me. Feed your body. Give it the fuel and protein it needs to do what God created it to do...heal and FIGHT!
That's my 2 cents.
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Flavia, I agree with TonLee about the protein. I saw an oncology nutritionist at the beginning of treatment and she told me to increase my protein. I think it was a huge help and I continue to eat more protein because I feel so much better.
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Marisa.......
Get thee to Dana-Farber! I starteded at UMass but after one too many screw ups, moved to DF. I'm in a clinical trial for a herceptin/perjeta combo for early stage her2+. So well run with excellent, experienced doctors and surgeons. Getting chemo as we speak. Yay, only two taxols left then continuing with herceptin and trial drug. I always said if I or anyone in my family got cancer we' d head straight for DF. Also had some inside info on a certain doctor's behavior in the or and the surgeon I was assigned seemed to have very little bc experience. Please let me know if you have more questions.
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Iago, I teach at Berkshire Community College.
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kayb, fascinating, thank you for sharing the article. Since I'm overweight, I don't have to worry about not getting enough nourishment - one thing I wonder, when you fast - or diet - and lose fat - the estrogen which is stored in the fat is released.... might be bad for estrogen positive cancer.... hmmmm....
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Thanks, TonLee, that makes sense.
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Ok, another question: How many of you have gone for second opinions? At what point in the process did you do this? Did the 2nd opinoin differ from the first?
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Flavia....I interviewed three different oncologists, one that is nationally known, and two others with great recommendations. The nationally known one at the IU Med Center had the same protocol as one closer to my house, so I chose the doc with a smaller office that was closer. I am so glad i did as I have a very close relationship with him, and it turned out his office was right next door to my PS. It was perfect, especially when I developed a pseudomona infection after my surgery and while i was on chemo. They talked to each other a lot as they were both concerned. I also interviewed two breast surgeons. Ony one ps as I liked him so much I just stopped there.
I was also BRCA negative. My doc wouldn't do the Oncotype as he said it would score high due to the her2+++ status and wouldn't change diagnosis. I suppose it could have changed the chemo maybe, but i figured since two people had the same suggestion, I would go with it.
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Flavia, I got several other opinions and they were all on the same page.
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Flav - I interviewed 2 diff onco and 2 diff surgeons in LV. Could have gone to St George, UT...but no...all my family is in Vegas and I had places to stay overnite if nec. Then...when struggling with BMX decision...I did go to Cancer Treatment Centers of America in AZ. They were INCREDIBLE...soooo much more than I thot. Bottom line...THEY convinced me NOT to have the bmx and said all other tx was exactly what they wud do with me. So I do recommend getting a 2nd opinion...it will put ur mind at ease or set you on a diff course...but don't b afraid of it...knowledge is empowering. Go for it!!
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