TRIPLE POSITIVE GROUP

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  • camillegal
    camillegal Posts: 15,710

    Cypher I did get a couple of opinions and they both said since I have  can't take anestesha (sp) it's a big operation and I can live with my organs  in new places as long as they watch it and if the time comes if it has to be done then we talk about it. I'd have to be cut from the top to bottom and lot of work long time out--I think I scare then cuz I have 3 hernias and no one really wants to do them but they're not awful yet. I really said I would do it awake but my organs have to be under so they would stop working if they did it that way. Oh and my heart has a small problem now so no more herceptin and yes my sister is Stage IV never had chemo, or herceptin gets a shot now every 8 weeks--They don't say remission really anymore they just say ned and watch u like a hawk--I still go every 3 months after all this time just to get more radation in me.LOL

    Patin I've been on Tylenol 4 for well for a long long time???? But Now that my liver has moved i figure they'll be no damage to it cuz the pills can't find my liver. But I can't take any other pain meds so I don't know what else to ask for. I used to be able to take Darvan (?) but they stopped making that right.

    Cypher since day one of all this chit all I ever heard was this is strange or unusual and I had a team of Drs. that were older so had been around and I just did whatever they told me---then I moved and started with all new Drs, and again I've been in the hospitals here a few times and I hear this is so strang and ubusual- In fact one of the times I was in this hospital the Infectious Disease Dr. who just diagnosis people and doesn't see them asked to meet me and brout a couple of Drs with him--that's one of the reasons i don't ask questions cuz I'm all scattered with everything they do--and any time I wasin the stay was supposed to be 1 or 2 days----never I was in 7, 10 6 8 7 on and on hahaha and the Drs. at the end of their day of operating (a couple) would come and sit with me and just talk and a couple of nurses too. This has been strange to me from the beginning. First I was stage III then after my operation (the first one) my BS said stage IV so whatever, ==So there's all my strange (well not all) stupid things that have happened to me. And they are still happening=I thank God now I'm laid back cuz I was always criticized (by the nuns) for being to easy going, lazy too. But it was for a reason.

  • camillegal
    camillegal Posts: 15,710

    Oh I'm sorry i babbled so much, I just took my pain meds and right before they really start working i get a little feeling of zappyness. Oh Maybe I should erase that all it stupid, see I'm writing what I'm thinking. Oh well no one will read much of it it's boring as usual.

  • eileenohio
    eileenohio Posts: 268

    Camille, You are so funny.  The pills can not find your liver?  You are never boring. You give a lot of great advice and you do it with humor.   You are amazing..   Hugs  Eileen

  • cypher
    cypher Posts: 447

    cami, no need to apologize.  I'm amazed at how upbeat and easy going you seem about all this -- I sure wouldn't be! 

    I have another question.  My friend who was just diagnosed --which I just think is so ridiculous, is the word that keeps coming ot mind even though it doesn't make much sense -- she has DCIS.  Now we're researching that and it seems like they often recommend MX in that case.  But I don't understand this b/c I had some DCIS as well as IDC -- my BS said basically it was probably a remnant of what turned into IDC, something like that.  And I had a lump.  ???

  • camillegal
    camillegal Posts: 15,710

    Cypher someone will nswer u know that, but of course not me. I don't understand any of that or much of anything.

  • moonflwr912
    moonflwr912 Posts: 5,945

    Let me second that, oh gal with the movable insides! Sounds like a song. Let's see,

    There once was a girl called Camigal

    Had organs that went on a walk.

    They played hide and seek,

    Making her weak,

    But the doctors just sat there and talked!

  • cypher
    cypher Posts: 447

    Moon, love it!

  • NickyJ
    NickyJ Posts: 372

    Camille and moonflwr - our new double act!!! Seriously girls, you two are hilarious!!



    Pbrain, thanks for the information, its the first time I've seen written that to continue doesn't change the outcome. Anywhere else all I've come across is herceptin until its no longer effective. More to think about!



    Nicky

  • PatinMN
    PatinMN Posts: 784

    Cypher, I just read something yesterday that said DCIS is often over treated, because on its own it is not a danger. However, they can't predict which cases of DCIS will become invasive, and thus all cases get treated these days. It makes no sense to me that the usual treatment for DCIS would be MX. I had 2.5 cm of DCIS along with my .5 cm of IDC and I too had a lumpectomy. In fact, why would you even need rads after a lumpectomy for DCIS?

  • camillegal
    camillegal Posts: 15,710

    Good Morning all.

    Moon that is so cute, I have a whole body of material for u. LOL

  • NickyJ, This article, from Medscape site, may interest you. It reports (March 2013) of the European Medicine Agency's approval of perjeta for patients with metastasized BC:

    The European Medicines Agency has approved pertuzumab (Perjeta, Roche/Genentech) for patients with HER2-positive metastatic breast cancer, the company announced today.

    Specifically, pertuzumab is approved in combination with trastuzumab (Herceptin, Roche/Genentech) and docetaxel for patients with HER2-positive metastatic or locally recurrent unresectable breast cancer who have not received previous anti-HER2 therapy or chemotherapy for their metastatic disease.

    "The combination of [pertuzumab], [trastuzumab], and chemotherapy is the first to significantly extend survival, compared with the previous standard of care — [trastuzumab] and chemotherapy alone," said Hal Barron, MD, chief medical officer and head of global product development at Roche, in a press statement.

    In 2012, pertuzumab was approved for the same indication in the United States, where trastuzumab plus pertuzumab reportedly costs about $188,000 for an 18-month course of treatment.

    The European approval comes after the phase 3 CLEOPATRA (Clinical Evaluation of Pertuzumab and Trastuzumab) trial showed that survival was a median of 6.1 months longer with the triple-drug combination of pertuzumab, trastuzumab, plus docetaxel than with trastuzumab plus docetaxel alone, with no disease worsening or death.

    The CLEOPATRA results were first presented at the San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium in 2011, as reported at the time by Medscape Medical News, and simultaneously published in the New England Journal of Medicine (2012;366:109-119).

    The pertuzumab combination also improved overall survival and objective response rate, compared with trastuzumab plus chemotherapy.

    In CLEOPATRA, median overall survival was 37.6 months for trastuzumab plus chemotherapy. At the time of the analysis, median overall survival had not been reached for the pertuzumab combination; more than half of that group continued to survive.

    As a single agent, pertuzumab has been described as having only "modest antitumor activity." However, preclinical studies have shown that pertuzumab and trastuzumab have a synergistic effect.

    Because pertuzumab and trastuzumab have complementary mechanisms of action and bind at different epitopes, the combination of the 2 agents provides a "more comprehensive blockade of HER2 signaling, and results in greater antitumor activity than either agent alone," the CLEOPATRA investigators wrote in 2011.

    The most common (>30%) adverse reactions observed with pertuzumab in combination with trastuzumab plus docetaxel were neutropenia, nausea, fatigue, rash, and peripheral neuropathy. The most common (>2%) grade 3/4 adverse reactions were neutropenia, febrile neutropenia, leukopenia, diarrhea, peripheral neuropathy, anemia, asthenia, and fatigue.

    The CLEOPATRA investigators also pointed out that the triple therapy did not result in an increase in left ventricular systolic dysfunction.


     
  • specialk
    specialk Posts: 9,299

    Often the reason for a MX for DCIS is that it is scattered throughout the breast, like calcs, and not in a singular location that could be removed by lumpectomy.  I think for many of us that had some DCIS with their IDC (sounds like a side dish, lol!) it was located right next to the well-defined tumor.  There is also the chance of missing a small amount by lumpectomy if it is diffuse and then that small part becomes invasive later.

  • Pbrain
    Pbrain Posts: 773

    Patin, I would reevaluate your tylenol use or at least talk to your doctor.  I have a good friend whose father-in-law died of liver failure.  He never drank, ate healthy foods, took care of himself, but he took tylenol p.m. every night for years.  This is why the manufacturer made the p.m. part without the tylenol (I think the OTC drug is called Sleep). 

    It is tough though because ibuprofen raises blood pressure by causing you to retain fluids, and aspirin causes ulceration of the GI tract.  Maybe just keep watching your liver enzymes on the tylenol?  There aren't many other good choices since the cox2 inhibitor drugs cause cardiovascular side effects (Celebrex).

    Here is the study on Herceptin over one year.  I don't know for a fact, but I think the FDA asked us to do the trial as a phase IV trial.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23871490

  • Pbrain
    Pbrain Posts: 773

    Nicky, I just looked closer at the study.  They say they enrolled "early" breast cancer.  They don't mention the stages, but I suspect they don't have stage III and IV in there...

  • GrandmaV
    GrandmaV Posts: 1,045

    From the herceptin website: "Herceptin is a therapy that you may take until your cancer spreads or your side effects become unmanageable".  I think that means you can take it until its no longer effective for Stage IV

    http://www.herceptin.com/breast/metastatic 

  • NickyJ
    NickyJ Posts: 372

    Gratitude - I'm grateful, thanks!

    Pbrain, I think you're right. The way I read it its only early stages. But thanks!

    GrandmaV, that's pretty much how I understand it at the moment, I just want to be clear that that is the protocol before I approach my onco.



    Nicky

  • goutlaw
    goutlaw Posts: 268

    Went to doctor today Im getting taxol instead of taxotere when i get it on Aug 28. With herceptin....and Im going weekly! She said i need to take steroids 2 days prior and one day after...Plus I am trying without nelasta she said! Does this sound right...Im so beat

  • goutlaw
    goutlaw Posts: 268

    Stage 3a they say is considered early breast cancer

  • NickyJ
    NickyJ Posts: 372

    Goutlaw,

    I changed to taxol after 2 doses of taxothere, weekly with herceptin. I found it a lot easier to cope with - still had se's, but nothing like as bad as with taxothere. Hopefully you'll have an easier time with this combination and will get through the rest of the tx without too many problems. Thinking of you.



    Nicky

  • NickyJ
    NickyJ Posts: 372

    Sorry meant to say I did it without neulasta and with steroids, same as you're getting

  • PatinMN
    PatinMN Posts: 784

    Hi goutlaw.  I did weekly taxol.  Weekly taxol doesn't usually affect the white blood cells, so you wouldn't normally need neulasta to bring up your white blood cell count.  It more usually affects red blood cells/hemoglobin, and if that gets too low they will give you a blood transfusion.  I never needed that myself, but I know Pbrain did.  I had steroids in my pre-meds each week, but didn't have to take them any other time.  I had very few side effects from weekly taxol and hopefully you will do well also!

  • goutlaw
    goutlaw Posts: 268

    Grat did that come out yet where they can give u combination?

  • goutlaw
    goutlaw Posts: 268

    Grat ? So u mean u couldnt have nocchemo in order to receive that?

  • Goutlaw, the reason you can't get Neulasta with Taxol is because you need at least 10 days between treatments in order for Neulasta to work, so the 7 days doesn't cut it. People do still have issues with WBCs with Taxol and when they do, they get Neuprogen shots, which are daily until counts go up instead of a single dose. Hope that helps! Hope that you have an easier time with the Taxol than with the Taxotere.  

  • moonflwr912
    moonflwr912 Posts: 5,945

    For my arthritis I am on anti inflamatory called Etoldolac. (Generic name). It helps, don't have the tummy troubles aspirin causes and supposed to be less toxic to liver/ kidney. It helps me. Probably has same SEs like tylenol, or advil, but so far so good.

  • lago
    lago Posts: 11,653

    PatinMN My tumor was 5.5cm of IDC with an additional 1cm of DCIS. Common to have both. They base the path on the IDC only though.

    goutlaw Taxol/Herceptin seems to be the newer protocol. Weekly is a PITA but if I did it over again I think I might prefer that to Taxotere. Many of us, myself included had to take steroids for a few days. and yes 3A is early stage. I was one lymph node away from 3A. My neighbor was 3A diagnosed after me. She is still NED.

  • Pbrain
    Pbrain Posts: 773

    Gout, I did your treatment, weekly taxol and herceptin.  It was rough, but not so terrible.  I gained weight from the steroids.  Plus the oral ones kept me up and buzzing, so I stopped taking them.  I never had neulasta or neupogen during the treatment.  I needed an infusion of red blood cells, but my white cell and platelet counts stayed a ok...a bit low, but not bad.

  • camillegal
    camillegal Posts: 15,710

    Oh Pbrain I remember what u went thru it was something, I think having the white cells lower is better it's just a shot, that's all I had all the time--but reds were always ok. The color is more powerful anyway--Oh I do remember going in the following day for a bag of something for a few hrs. But never blood. so U had it tough.

  • maureenb
    maureenb Posts: 47

    Hi Ladies-  I'm new to this group.  I just finished 4 x TCH and am now moving on to the next phase which is 1 year of herceptin and 10 years of Tamoxifen.  Since we are all Triple Positive in this group, I would love to hear from lots of you if this is the same or similar regimen you were prescribed?  I'm mainly talking about the herceptin and tamoxifen.  I had read somewhere that if you were ER + then Herceptin didn't work as well.   I'm also wondering if you do these at the same time or wait until Herceptin is over before you start the Tamoxifen.  I don't see my onc for another couple weeks so thought you ladies could answer me sooner.  

    I am worried about Herceptin because I have been having terrible insomnia and hot flashes since beginning chemo.  It seems like I hardly ever sleep and if I do doze off, I get awoken by a hot flash.  I have tried every sleeping pill-  ambien, lunesta, restoril, ativan...  nothing seems to do it.  

    Anyone have a similar problem?  

    Also, I am told that my tumor is gone--  because clear margins, no nodes, double mast.  and 4 rounds of chemo.  But does this mean just the original tumor is gone and not that EVERY CELL floating around from it is gone?  Are those "floaters" the ones that come back and give you a recurrence?  Are they what the herceptin and tamoxifen are supposed to "kill" or are herceptin and tamoxifen supposed to prevent new ones?  If they are new ones being made, how do we know they are even triple + anymore?  Like if they are unrelated to the primary tumor?  Lots of questions...  

    Help!  

  • Pbrain
    Pbrain Posts: 773

    Hi Maureen, we have a similar diagnosis, and I was prescribed 6 X TCH and then just a year of herceptin.  I'm on arimidex instead of tamoxifen because I'm post-menopausal.  I couldn't tolerate the TCH (first and only treatment dumped me in the hospital for 5 days), so my oncologist switched me to weekly taxol.  I had 33 days of radiation because I did the lumpectomy.  So it looks like you are on a common treatment plan.

    The herceptin is given for a year to treat what are called micrometastases.  It looks like breast cancer has tendency to travel and set up shop somewhere else in the breast or body.  It might just be a group of 10 cells, so you can't see it.  That is where recurrence comes from.  It can be dormant for awhile, just sitting there doing nothing, and then grow into a tumor.

    I kind of think the anti-estrogen therapy (tamoxifen or arimidex) is to prevent the development of new breast cancers more than to treat the existing one (since you hopefully have no more cancer cells).  I read somewhere that many oncologists think it is actually more important than the chemo in the scheme of things.  So that's why we all stay on it, even though it sucks the big one.