Can we have a forum for "older" people with bc?

Mornin all,

Linda- I can empathize with having a family member living with you and contributing nothing in return. It was a little easier for me, because it was my youngest son, but he didn't really get out on his own till he was 30. There were a few tries but none lasted more than a few months. Thankfully, he now has a decent job he loves and is living with his fiancée. They will be getting married in June.

Re the school shootings, etc- I don't want to step on any toes or anything and I am talking generalities, not specific individuals. I am well aware that what I am going to say is not always possible. Ok, enough disclaimers, here goes: I believe that one of the things that contributes to the mental issues that lead people to committ these awful acts is institutionalized daycare from birth on. I understand that there are a lot of single moms out there or couples that can't survive without dual incomes. But there are also a lot of couples who both work because they like the perks that come with 2full time salaries. And I am not here to judge anyone. But my feelings are that when a child is in institutional care, no matter how good, from the time they are infants, they become part of a group that is treated as a group. They have very limited exposure to being special and important, and unique and loved just for themselves. This is again, not a judgement against daycare- I worked at a preschool, and two of my DD's worked at daycares, one for many years. As much as any one carer tries to give individualized care, their main responsibility is to the group as a whole. So especially, with infants, their needs are met, but there is little time for cuddling, and intentional interaction. And the child learns, unconsciously maybe, unintentionally for sure, that he/she is no more or less important than anyone else. And if their lives don't matter on an individual basis, then other lives don't matter either. My feelings go back to the orphanages that were studied years ago,where some babies had their needs met, i.e. were fed and changed, but not interacted with in other ways, and were grossly limited in intelligence and socialization, if they even survived. A child, every child, needs to know that their life matters to someone. That they are loved and are recognized as unique and special. I know that many parents who have kids in daycare love their child or children every bit as much as any parent does. That is not what this is about. The facts are that most kids are dropped at daycare by 8am, and are picked up somewhere around 5. The parent may have to stop at a store on the way home, then once home, dinner has to be cooked, served and cleaned up, laundry needs to be done, if there is more than one child, homework is a priority, baths, snacks, then bed, hopefully at a decent time for the child's age. How much time is there, in those few hours to really get involved wIth any individual child in a totally relaxed, totally child-centered way?

All that said, I don't have a solution. I was a stay-at-home mother, and my grandchildren have been very blessed, in that when a parent had to work, either I, or more often, a sibling took care of the child. When my oldest DD had her children, she worked at a school and was home by 3, her husband managed a take-out pizza place and went to work at 4. I know that type of arrangement isn't always available. I am not naive. But I also see many good people, who love their children, but wHo also love new cars stylish clothing, lunches and dinners out, and believe they really need the two incomes. And I watch, as their children get older- and I am talking elementary school age- and have behavior and social problems in schools and neighborhoods.

I know it is an over-simplicafation to a major issue, and I also know that not all children who are in daycare from early on grow up to go on shooting sprees or other acts of violence, but I also know that the biggest draw that gangs have is that they give kids an identity and a place to "belong". I know there are some countries that give new mothers two years maternity leave at 75% salary. Maybe, instead of blaming guns for all the violence, we should look at why these kids are picking up the guns. Again, obviously, this is only one of many, many factors that come together to create this problem, but I do really believe it is a factor. Hope I haven't insulted anyone with my rant.

I love the interaction I have with all of you, and would never purposely say anything to hurt anyone on this site. Hey, it's only my opinion

Anne

Just wanted to come back on and say thanks for all who ranted with me.  Carole, you are so right.  We have all become so used to the violence that we don't even consider some of the things we could do.  We have become complacent because "nothing" ever happens anyway.    Linda and Anne --- we do have a lot of laws but one important one we don't have as a standard is background checks.  Also, being able to follow the FULL trail of a gun through all its owners.  None of this is simple, or easy.  The lousy part is even had we started major improvements last yr. it will take a long, long time to move the needle into the positive area on the scale.  I'm just sick of the idea that so many, many people are hurt badly, or killed that were minding their own business etc.  Many kids are neglected now-days.  Far too many people have children who are not ready for it --- and sometimes even if you get better, it is still too late for the child.  It is not simple, nor easy in any way --- but I still don't like that a big organization keeps saying we need more guns.  More guns is not the answer.

Gosh Linda, I must be a very catty person.  My first thought when you described  your BIL was why did your sister even think of marrying someone with OCD, then I realized it was probably the same reason I married my first husband who was a genius, but also an alcoholic.  Somehow, ( oh how silly young people can be ) I was just sure that our love was deeper, stronger, wider,  and more powerful than a speeding bullet --- so how could a bit of alcoholism make too much of a problem.  10 yrs. later we were finally divorced and a week after my divorce I married my second husband ( we celebrated our 40th. this July ) and we are still enjoying each other's company.  So forgive me for that. 

I know it can be difficult for anyone having any other adult in their home for an extended period.  I'm almost thinking a "new" contract needs to be drawn up, but if you can't enforce it, it wouldn't do much good.  I also think it is hard to let anything go when you are constantly bombarded with the negative behaviors that so put you off.  I wish I had some great answer but I don't.  I don't know if you gave your BIL some sort of time limit, but I think there is nothing wrong with figuring one out and presenting him with it.  He has to man up to some sort of responsible guidelines.  I don't know if there is anyway to steer him at all, or if there is someone who could help you with reasonable demands and a way to present them to get some half way decent results.  Don't know if there are any books or works that might help you interact with a person with your BIL's illness.

You really do need to get some decent rest.  Don't know if relaxation tapes might help you lighten up before bed, some meditating --- but your spirit is being assaulted it seems to me and if you can get some good rest your thought processes might be clearer and better answers find there way into your awareness.  Everything that happens to us has a reason --- too many times, it doesn't seem to make sense to us.  I've bumped up against that so many times, so you need that break --- in being totally annoyed and upset --- to traveling on a beautiful boat sailing on peaceful calm seas where strains of beautiful music act as a lullaby that just soothes and rests your spirit better than anything else can.   I hope you can find some peace --- you need it for your healing.

Blessings,

Jackie

Peace comes from living a measured life.  Peace comes from attending to every part of my world in a sacramental way.  My relationships are not what I do when I have time left over from my work. . . . Reading is not something I do when life calms down. Prayer is not something I do when I feel like it. They are all channels of hope and growth for me. They must all be given their due.
 
Joan D. Chittister

Mornin

Carole- I totally agree that some kids are better off in daycare than with neglectful parents 24/7. In fact, I would say that would have been true for my youngest DD's two kids, if we hadn't been able to step in and be there for them on a daily basis when they were infants. Thankfully, Jamie had a job as a hairstylist back then, and with odd hours, evenings and weekends, my two other daughters and I were really the main caretakers for the firstborn, and were around as much as possible for the second one after she quit working. This is the same daughter that is pregnant again and has just moved in to a warehouse for the school year, then is planning to build a home out of shipping containers. When I say I plan to be around for as much of this year as possible, several people including my other kids, say they are adults, this is their choice and we haVe to let them fail on their own. My response is yes, it is the parents choice, but the kids didn't choose this chaos. The difference in behavior between the time she drops them off till the time she picks them up is remarkable, whether it is a couple of hours or a couple of days. So yes, I stand corrected- home care is not always better than daycare. Bui stand by what I said about the mindset of daycare kids

Anne

Anne, your comments on daycare and nonsupportive families were very interesting, especially no intentional interaction. My dh's brother came from this type of environment,too - being shifted around between siblings and neighbors bc his mom was sick with brain cancer. We had him when he was 7. I was 19 - too young and inexperienced to be a mom and had to go back to college in the fall. His dad is an alcoholic and wouldn't help us financially, so we had to drop him off. But this is 40 years ago and not good for me to review because I can't change it.

Jackie, it's my hubby's brother; I'm an only child. He's 47 going on 8, I think. I don't think another "contract" will do anything - I did come up with a list of chores for him to do to "pay his way," but I don't know if this is enabling him. He has no sense of responsibility and we're finding out that most of what he tells us is BS. His list includes a job search and calling a mental health counselor, but to my knowledge, nothing is happening on those fronts. There's much more going on in his life that I can't share ... I can only pray for positive changes.

You're right, going on without rest is not good and I go to a support group on Fri. nights and feel so much better. It's a great support group, Emotions Anonymous and if I get back to working the steps and doing my positive affirmations, I'm OK. And, I have already since yesterday. More importantly, I slept for about 10 hours last night and took a 3 hour nap today. My body and mind to need the rest to heal.

Had my 1st follow-up with my surgeon yesterday. The tumor was larger 7mm not 3-4mm as first thought. She's going to send it off for a gene report to confirm that 3 weeks of radiation will be all I need. The sentinal node is clear - 0 there, thank G-d. She didn't want to discuss radiation, but I do have concerns so she said, wait until she refers me to a radiologist after my next visit to her in 2 weeks. Thankfully, she removed the itchy surgical tape and told me I can continue to ice it this weekend and then switch to moist heat on Monday.

For moist heat, is that applied directly to your skin? I would think so, but figured you guys would know.

Tomorrow, I'm going to make some more jewelry and maybe go to to see a movie with dh. And, work more on my affirmations.

Monday, I go back to work and I think that will help me too. I'm a little apprehensive because I think having cancer messes with your brain -- I kind of feel "stupid" sometimes. For example, I got to my Dr's office at 1, but the appointment was at 1:30 so I left and tried to get my scrips, but had to leave to go back because there wasn't enough time so I went back to the Dr. and she was late.

I'm so grateful to have found you beautiful ladies online and appreciate the ability to rant and get feedback.

ohio - glad you got some things done around the house.

Blessings to you all.

Linda

Late this afternoon neighbors came over with a grandchild, a little girl less than a year old. She is so cute and chubby with beautiful blue eyes. Her name is Harlow and her parents aren't married and don't live together. She was conceived during a period when they were girlfriend and guy friend. Now the mother is going back to college and the father, who has a degree, is working and paying child support. At the time he learned he was going to be a father, he was travelling around the country playing in a band. Not your ideal family situation. I wonder how many babies are born into an "ideal family situation" these days..

DH and I had noon dinner at my mother's house with my younger sister and her dh and my oldest brother and his wife and, of course, my mother. It was nice to visit with part of the family.

Now we're about to watch the Saints play the Cowboys. Hope it isn't too painful!

Morning everyone

Carole- I don't think their are any "ideal" families anymore. I know I can go thru my four kids, one is not yet married, and tell you why each of their family's are not ideal. We live in tough times and I worry about the world our grandchildren will face. Even the families that look good usually have some sort of disfunction behind closed doors. We live in a world where personal gratification comes first. If that means spending money on beer and wine and/or cigarettes instead of getting your child braces, that's okay. If you want to live in a warehouse or container just to prove you can, who cares what your children lose in the process? The worst part, I think, is that the children accept this as normal. Your mom gets home at 4:30 every day, but by 8 she is slurring her words and tells you to do something, but you know you have at least an hour before she will check to see that you've done it, if she doesn't fall asleep before then. The parent that works is a really good parent, but the stay at home mother is a total control freak and helicopter mom that literally agonizes over every bite of food she and her child eat- way beyond a normal vegan. And doesn't take her eyes off their two year old, ever. There are lots of families that look good- all dressed stylishly, nice cars, go to church every Sun, nice home -but that comes at a price - your kids being in daycare from infancy, credit card bills that will never get paid off, and needing your parents to refinance their home every 5 years or so , so that you don't lose yours. And I want to clarify I am not talking about a couple that both have to work in order to feed, clothe and house their family, nor the situations were the child gets better care at day care than they do at home.

How many "labeled" kids are out there- ADHD, autism, Asbergers, sensory affect, even anxiety in 6 yr olds. It can get really depressing if you think about it. I know we weren't the best parents, we did things that didn't put the kids first, but didn't realize it at the time. It's too late to change that, so I focus on the grandkids now- making sure each one knows that they are loved, unconditionally, (my oldest grandson was amazed when I told him that and explained what it meant), that I am proud of them, that I am so excited to see them, even if I saw them yesterday, and I accept them as they are. They know that I am their safe place, no matter what. My own children know that as well, but that they make decisions, as adults, that I cannot support and they say they understand why I disapprove, but not enough to change, and that's their choice.

There is so much change needed in society as a whole, raising children being only one, maybe the most critical one, and one person or group of people can't change it all, so you have to change what you can, when you can. The days of a loving two- parent families, where intentionally instilling morals and building character and integrity was the goal are long gone. I have often said that we are the first American generation that did not leave a better world for our children. Somehow, we looked the other way as smut and vulgarity slipped in, not only in the entertainment we watched and listened to, but in our own homes. We allowed instant gratification to be the norm, because we could afford to. Having children without marriage is common place, and, I have to admit, I was relieved when my youngest DD didn't marry the father of their two children. (She only married him two years ago, and the wedding itself was a disaster) The saddest thing to me is that today's parents think they are doing a good job, and TV, magazines and the internet tells them they are right. How many children have to be lured and hurt by child predators on the internet before parent realize that children should not be on the internet unsupervised? And I mean all children, until at least 17 or 18. Parents know this, but they are too busy or too lazy to follow thru on it.

I hope I didn't insult anyone with my rant. As you already know, I am very child focused, and feel very strongly about the state of families right now, and the whole way children are being raised today- publicly and privately. My opinions are my own and do not necessarily agree with anyone else's.

All that said, I hope you all have a good day

Anne

Anne, fantastic letter.  It is just sad how right you are about so many things.  Count me as  not feeling one iota of offense -- you'll have to work a lot harder to get to me.

Well, been a long day for me.  Lots of little things to get done in the middle of big coughing spells -- and I guess my dry spell is over.  I'm guessing the sinus drainage has produced a bit of a cold.  Not bothering me too much --- just tired out from the coughing fits.  Going to the V.A. on Wednesday so I'll have them do something with it. 

Cool and nice here.  Dh thinks too cool but just about right for me since the sinus/cold gives me a few hot flashes now and then.  I'll catch up with you all tomorrow.

Blessings,

Jackie

P.S. Carole, not to worry you didn't manage to do all you wanted to today --- that's what the rest of your life if for.  Hugs!!

Never regret. If it’s good, it’s wonderful. If it’s bad, it’s experience.  Victoria Holt

Jackie, sorry you have the crud. It's not like you to take naps.

Another day with little accomplished except some grocery shopping at Fresh Market, which has chicken breasts (no anti-biotics) and ground chuck on sale on Tuesdays for $2.99. Most days you just walk up to the meat and fish counters and tell someone what you want, but on Tuesdays you have to take a number. There were some more items on sale, too.

Before the grocery shopping, I played golf at 8:30 am. Not well. I need to put in some sessions on the driving range. It's warmer and more humid today. When I got home, dh had closed the doors and windows and turned on the a/c, but it isn't cycling on much.

It's very quiet here on the oldies thread. Hope everyone is doing something fun and not spending too much time in doctors' offices.

Minus One is on a trip to New England. I hope she's having a great time. She had dinner with a couple of bc.org sisters in Boston. I read about the dinner on another thread.

(((((Puffin))))) That hurts so much! I hope it improves overnight.

Rita, I bowled a couple of times this summer and enjoyed it. There is a bowling alley on the north shore but bowling is not big here.

Puffin, sorry about the back spasms. What was your weather like today?

It was in the high 80's today and humid. I played golf and sweated so much that I wasn't feeling good by the end of the round. Despite the wet clothes, I stayed for lunch with the two women I played with. When I got home I took a shower and collapsed into my chair. The two potassium pills I swallowed seem to be helping ease the muscle cramps. I'm thankful to be alive but it's "heck" getting old. It's difficult to accept the limitations.

Hugs to everybody needing/wanting a hug.

Listen to your life.  See it for the fathomless mystery that it is.  In the boredom and pain of it no less than in the excitement and gladness:  touch, taste, smell your way to the holy and hidden heart of it, because in the last analysis all moments are key moments, and life itself is grace.
 
Frederick Buechner

Welcome, Bobkat! Nice to see you here.

Puff, hope that back gets better soon. I haunt cemeteries, too! Love genealogy and I am looking for "stone faces".

Jackie, glad all went well at the medical center. Made the drive worth it......even Steak 'n Shake!!

DH is the golfer in our family. Great week to be on the courses. The weather is beautiful!

I took it easy today and used my microwave heating pad and am relieved that my back is improving. It was cloudy and cool today, and rained this evening. Because of the rain I won't be taking cemetery photos tomorrow either as it leaves puddles on the stones. Extra healing time will be good.