GRRRRRRRRR I HATE LE..........
Comments
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Tina, that is so helpful--my mother is all about her, and her nurturing skills are non-existant, and I feel the judgement constantly. My father is easier.
I used to work with a woman who said her mother enjoyed the concept of her far more than the reality of her.
So, I'm not just a horrible, emotionally not evolved, terrible daughter??
I did see a therapist for a long time to try and get a handle on this, and at one point, after a horrendous visit to see them, he recommended a break from them. I do feel so guilty that they're getting older and frail.
Families: my younger sister treats bc as contagious, but my older sister is supportive.
How did you know I'd be reclaiming the space--physically and emotionally? I'm doing laundry, preparing for the class I teach on Tuesdays and just taking some deep cleansing breaths.
Thank you!
Kira
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((((((hugs))))))) Kira, I think you're handling it in a very healthy way.
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Kira - just adding my (((HUGS)))). I struggle so much with my own mother and family sometimes. I really feel your pain and glad for you they are gone and you can "reclaim" your life and space! Catherine
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GRRR......I not only hate LE, but am just so frustrated by how "all consuming" it has been. I wondered if anyone here has a recommendation for a good LE therapist or group in the NY metro area. I am in Westchester but willing to go into the city or looking at Greenwich hospital. My PT is CLT but other than MLD, I don't feel that she is giving me all of the rest of the care that you all speak of - like info on garments or a fitter or self massage. She says data shows it doesnt' work. huh? I am having my implant exchange surgery at Columbia next week and would like to get in with a new LE therapist who can help me before and after surgery. I just feel like i am doing alot of self learning. Does anyone have someone they would recommend - I see NYU and MSKCC have LE specialists. Any advice? I have looked at the LANA and NLN referrals but I am looking more for a personal experience referral. Thank you so much. I feel like I have read almost every last thread related to LE here. I don't know what I would do without it. Bless you Kira and Binney!
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Olearca, one of the training schools says that self MLD is not particularly helpful, but there's so little data, and the move to debunk it is wrong, IMO. We need all the tools in our tool box, and then we decide what works and when we need it.
If you pm Jane/Onebadboob--she has a good therapist in Westchester.
I know a great LE therapist in Manhattan, but she doesn't take insurance: she was the head therapist at the Robert Lerner practice and a couple of women on the threads have seen her. I believe she's $125/hour.
Mary Read LMT CLT * LANA 19 East 71st Street lymphcare@msn.com 212.396.2350
I don't think she responds much to email--when I googled her, I came up with this page
http://www.nyclymph.freeservers.com/whats_new.htmlNew York City Tri State Area Lymphedema Therapists & Therapy Centers
New York City Tri State Area Lymphedema Therapists & Therapy Centers
Each lymphedema patient is advised to check the credentials and training of their therapists. There are not yet any official training standards for CDP/MLD in the USA. However, the National Lymphedema Network (NLN) advises on its website(www.lymphnet.org) what to look for in a good therapist. There are some therapists that have been kind enough to dedicate time to our group, I have put a star next to their name to reward them!The following websites can help in find a certified lymphedema therapist.
NLN Resource Guide: Listing of Manual Lymphatic Drainage Therapists www.lymphnet.com
Certified LANA Therapists (CLT-LANA)
http://www.clt-lana.org
Academy of Lymphatic Studies Find a Therapist listing
Dr. Vodder School of North America Find a Therapist list
Klose Training and Consulting Therapist List http://www.klosetraining.com
Norton School of Lymphatic Therapy Therapist List http://www.nortonschool.com
Upledger Institute Practitioner List www.iahp.comStaten Island
Kristine Caballero, MT
Private Practice
Tel: 718-984-1223 FAX: 718-984-1223 E-Mail: kcaballerolmt@aol.comBarbara Hurley, MT Private Practice Tel: 718-757-9524 E-Mail: BACWei@aol.com
Kerry Moloughney, MSPT St. Vincent's Medical Center Tel: 718-876-3163 FAX: 718-876-1666
Stefanie Politi, PT, MS, CLT
St. Vincent Catholic Med.Centers/Staten Island, Rehabilitation
Tel: 718-818-3163 FAX: 718-818-1666 E-Mail: sblock17@hotmail.comTammy Vinciguerra, OTR/L
Staten Island University Hospital, Occupational Therapy
Tel: 917-586-5777 E-Mail: tamot329@aol.comMichele Weatherwax, LMT
Tel: 917-838-7436Brooklyn
Michael Saraceno, MS, CLT OTR/L *
Advanced Hand and Occupational Therapy, Occupational Therapy
Tel: 718-238-2822 FAX: 718-238-2822 E-Mail: bean829@juno.com, michael.saraceno@liu.eduRichard Gascon, LMT
Tel: 917-827-6109 FAX: 718-972-1775*51 E-Mail: Marichaa04@aol.comBrighton Beach Angela Simkheza PT 718 332 3132
Anni Beherec, MSPT Brooklyn Heights 917 697 7024 abeherec@aol.com
Renata Glaz, PT 718 621 9400
Charo Luvara, PT, Chimes Physical Therapy 2412 Gerritsen Avenue
Phone: 718 769 9386 Fax: 718 769 9326 E-mail: CChan725@aol.comAmy Berkman O.T., L.M.T. Tel: 718 858-2231
Reycia Gotiangco, OTA 917 378 3259
Queens
Forest Hills Annette Galati, L.M.T.,MLD *
Tel: 718-261-6366 FAX: 718-263-3427Elmhurst Sharon Houlihan LMT (718) 760-5667
slhoulihan@netscape.netFresh Meadows Donna Dellarosa, OTR MLDT
718 670 2674Flushing Suzanne Ang, LMT, 718 478 4847 (speaks Chinese & Malaysian) suzzaneang@hotmail.com
Manhattan
Mary Read LMT CLT * LANA 19 East 71st Street lymphcare@msn.com 212.396.2350Michael Alatriste, L.M.T. * (downtown Manhattan)
Lymphedema Preventive Care
Tel: 212-691-0330 FAX: 212-6919837 E-Mail: lymphedemapc@aol.comEllen Greene, LMT, CLT (Vodder) * (212) 674-6755
Sara Cohen, OTR/L * LANA Memorial Sloan Kettering Physical Therapy
Tel: 212-639-5404 FAX: 212-319-2296 E-Mail: cohens@mskcc.orgChristian M. Custodio, MD (Memorial Sloan Kettering) Physiatrist who specializes in the evaluation and treatment of cancer patients and survivors with associated physical impairments and/or disabilities including lymphedema. (212) 639-7834
Mt. Sinai Hospital
Outpatient Physical Therapy Department
Dave Fichandler, PT, CLT (Lerner) (212) 241 9204Madison Avenue Physical Rehabilitation & Wellness
Gillian Wolfson, PT, MS* 274 Madison Avenue Suite 201
212.685.1666 www.madiosonaverehab.comNYU Medical Center*
Ting-Ting Kuo, P.T., M.S.
Clinical Specialist, Women's Health
Outpatient Physical Therapy
Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicine
(O) (212) 263-6075
(F) (212) 263-0459
www.ruskinstitute.org
Rusk Institute 400 East 34th Street
New York Presbyterian Hospital at Weill-Cornell
Meryl Cohen, DPT, CLT 212-746-1550 fax 212-746-8900Chequita Lieuwfat, OTR, North General Hospital Department of PT
Phone: 212 423 4583 E-mail: clieuw@hotmail.comCOLUMBIA PRESBETEYRIAN HOSP Kristine Dannenbaum. 212-305-3280. kdannebaum@msn.com
Rommel C. Quimson, OTR/L MLD/CDT *
AKTIV THERAPEUTICS, PLLC E44th 212 490 3800
QuimOTR@aol.comPamela Dryden, LMT, MLDT (Vodder)* 212.688.3746
Donna M Dellarosa, OTR MLD 212 472 7529
Annick Rossi,LMT MLDt (Vodder)* 212 989 0075
Anna Kramer, LMT Lymphedema Preventive Care, LMT
Tel: 212-691-9837 E-Mail: annakramer@peoplepc.comClaire Posada Upper Westside 212-663-4351 earthlingerc@earthlink.net.
Luis Gomez, LMT, COTA 646-773-3832 E-Mail: flaw2020@yahoo.com
Vasiliki (Vicki) Lazos, PT Lymphatic Care PT
Tel: 212-399-3800 FAX: 212-399-3822Alison McCarthy, LMT, CLT Private Practice
Tel: 646-325-8481Luz Velez, LMT New York Medical Massage Practice 212-582-2388
Janet Laidman LMT (212) 496-0081Winnie-Manfong Ma, PT 212 529 9780 611 Broadway
Vasiliki (Vicki) Lazos, PT Lymphatic Care Physical Therapy
Tel: 212-399-3800 FAX: 212-399-3822 E-Mail: vicki@handsonpt.usMark Nicholson, LMT Tel: 718-366-0342
Ellena Vera, OT Private Practice Tel: 212-888-9116
Roseann Alfieri, M.T. Tel: 212-427-8175
Antonietta C Jauregui, OTR/L, New York Hand Rehab. 219 E 69th Phone: 2124721000 Fax: 2124721066
Heather Case, PT, Case Specialty Physical therapy 212 875 0446
E-mail: clivecase2@yahoo.comWestchester / Yonkers / Bronx
White Plains Hospital Lymphedema Program, Julie Kim, PT (914) 681-1116.
Larchmont / White Plains Melissa Donaghy, PT-CLT
Women's Health Program Coordinator
914-484-6632 mskdpt@optonline.netBronx Ihor Strutynsky, PT 718/884-6783 2621 Palisade Ave #10D
Aliette Leung, OTR, Our Lady of Mercy Med. Ctr 600 E. 233rd St
Bronx tel: 7189209171 Fax: 7189209212Parkchester Glen Paul, LMT, MLDT(vodder)*
Healing Hands Lymphedema Therapy
718 824 1947Mona Elamin PT, MLDT (Vodder)
New Rochelle and environs (Bronx, Yonkers)
914-633-1904 email: Maseptima@aol.comMonika Glowacka, PT , LMT
Bronx / New Rochelle Physical Therapy
Tel: 718-904-9581 FAX: 718-931-0125 E-Mail: monaglowa@hotmail.comBronx Iwona Tybinkowska, PT
D.O.J. Rehabilitation & Nursing Center, Rehabilitation
Tel: 718-293-1500 FAX: 718-293-4136 E-Mail: ciapek@optonline.netBronx Bill Henderson, LMT
Tel: 718-931-1893 E-Mail: henderson718@hotmail.comDonna Nevin PT (Lerner) White Plains, NY
914 946 5409Yonkers Mary Grimes, LMT CLT 914-964-8880*
mgbglmtclt@aol.comYonkers Sharon McDonnell CLT
CELL# 914-384-1900 work# 914-375-8979Laurie Schwartz-Abele L.M.T. , CLT*
Mount Vernon, Tel: 914 667-0309
Hastings Hiroko Aizeki, M.T.
Tel: 914-478-1040Nyr Indictor, LMT
Tel: 914-548-9605 E-Mail: nyr844@earthlink.netLong Island
Nicole Gregory, OTR/L
North Shore University Hospital, Tel: 516-674-7922 FAX: 516-674-5008 wilbur@optonline.netWoodbury Lymphedema Therapy Marvin Boris, MD 516-364-2200
Westbury Total Health Care
(516) 333-3253 Fax: (516) 333-8452 info@westburytotalhealthcare.com
www.westburytotalhealthcare.comUniversity Hospital @ Stony Brook Catherine Tuppo 631 444 4240
Patricia Brancale,MS/PT 516-869-5576 Manhasset
Eileen Soljanich,PT 516-287-2100 Southampton
John Rector, PT, CLT-LANA 631-351-2601 South Huntington JRECTOR@HuntHosp.org
Jennifer Fauci, PT, MLT CDP Massapequa 516 798 1811
Farmingdale LMT,MLD (Vodder) 516 694 1177. BABMassage@aol.com
Annette Galati, L.M.T. ( Lerner) M.L.D.T. Levittown*516- 579-7661
James Kresse, LMT, CLT (Vodder) LMT Williston Park, 516 747 1382
Eileen Harris, LMT, MLDT (Vodder) Lynbrook, 516 593 8333
Victoria Lanzar, MT 516-794-6358 East Meadow
Diane Raspanti (Lerner) , LMT, CLT Westbury 516 536 4931
Margaret Herdies-Severin, OTR/L, CHT
North Shore Health System, Occupational Therapy
Tel: 516-674-7679 FAX: 516-674-5008Svetlana Tzondova, PT
STARS Physical Therapy, Director
Tel: 914-428-2033 FAX: 914-428-2055
PHYSICIAN/DIAGNOSIS:
DR. KATHLEEN FRANCIS Clinical Director, Lymphedema Treatment Center at the St. Barnabas Ambulatory Care Center, Livingston, NJ (973) 322-7500DIAGNOSTIC TESTING FOR LYMPHEDEMA (LYMPHCYNTHIGRAPHY) NYU HOSPITAL Elissa Kramer M.D. (212) 263‑7410, (212) 312‑5141
National Support / Information / Foundations
Lymphatic Research Foundation
Wendy Chaite 39 Pool Drive Roslyn, NY 11576
516 625 9862 www.lymphaticresearch.orgLANA Lymphology Associaton of North America http://www.clt-lana.org/
National Lymphedema Network (NLN) http://www.lymphnet.org
information line: 1-800-541-3259http://www.elymphnotes.org online Lymphedema magazine
http://www.lymphedema.biz This non-profit site is dedicated to the companies and businesses that design and/or supply products used in the treatment of lymphedema
Circle Of Hope http://www.lymphedemacircleofhope.org provide educational programs, public awareness, medical treatment and continued research for lymphedema.
Children Anguished With Lymphatic Malformations
Tina Baalman @ 11413 Prestige Drive, Frisco Texas 75034. Phone 877-570-2256(tollfree), email staycalm93@aol.com and website is www.staycalm.orgAlfred I. duPont Hospital for Children Lymphedema Program
Michael Alexander MD,
Division of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation Wilmington, Delaware 19803LIPEDEMA ASSOCIATION http://www.lipedema.org 800 809 2503 INFO@LIPEDEMA@ORG
Online Support Group
Subscribe to:LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACOR.ORG
PLEASE Keep In Mind...
A reminder, it is important to note that we do not endorse any particular vendor or product, doctor, therapist, treatment or protocol.We will gladly accept (and encourage) any information or recommendation out there from all sources, it is up to the individual to investigate if something might work for th
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WOW so many choices in NY. There are only two places where I live and that list is as long as our whole state.
Still puffy under the arm but I am down another 3 pounds. One more week till I go back to the Clinic. I have washed my bandages...got to roll them yet. Trying to mentally prepare myself for being wrapped again. I quit the lyrica over the weekend. So I don't know how my hand is going to handle the wrapping. My gaunlet is off today. It's making my thumb throb...the neurpathy is bad in it. So I may be ready to pass those brownies next week.
Kira sorry about your family. I think we all have somebody in our family that avoids us, helps us or ignores it.
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((Everyone))
Tina thanks for your thoughts. I have been wearing a Compression Under Armour/ Heat Resistant,short sleeve shirt with a sports bra and inserting Jovi paks right up against my skin... chest/pits around to my back ( serratus style)
Binny,
Just to let you know the MEDI 550/compression shirt arrived and am in day 2 of wearing it.
1, I like the neckline/ might have to come up higher
2. I did not know how much I missed the snaps on my bra!
3. WTH will i do with a hot flash, as there is no ripping this off fast or with hot weather?
4. I like how my sleeve rides over the short arm sleeve ( no sleeve slippage)
5. My chest/ axillary and back swelling is way down, really affects how my incscions are so much
less lumpy and flatter.
6. I am new to compression. Its not too tight...but i do find I have to not slouch as it rides up in
the back/ i wonder how this will work out with being active? seems better for a put-zing kind
of life just now. I did have to readjust the back whenever I sat down, or stood up.
7. Made well !
8. I have a sternum, ribs, and regular armpits, and pec's.....without swelling. Quite a change to
see and feel. And I am not suffering this pm.
9, Might need the back to be cut longer, and sleeve length longer.
Will see!
Almost lost my lymphadiva glove at a restaurant today....gonna be tricky keeping from losing em.
Nite All
Brazos
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((((KIRA))))), thank you, thank you. Oh my gosh, you are so amazing. Thank you for providing so much info. I am really grateful. I will start researching now and hope I can find a better "fit" in a therapist.
Hope you are feeling you have your life and space back with your mom gone!
Catherine
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Brazos, wow, sounds like you are at least getting some relief. I tried the under armour myself and did find them to be quite effective. Of course, my PT said I couldn't possibly have breast LE since I had no more breasts - hence, I am looking for a new therapist. I hope you continue to get relief.
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JO, thanks for that excellent reminder!
"Slow and gentle" is so hard when I'm feeling uptight about the stupid swelling, but fast-and-firm really does do more harm than good. Gentle as kitten petting, or butterfly wings. And slow enough to match the "slow and stupid" rhythm of the lymph system!Brazos, thank you for the detailed report on the Medi vest! Very helpful! When it's hot (or when you're active) perhaps you can switch back to the Underarmor with the heat-wicking fabric, at least for part of the time. That business of having to adjust the back could get real pesty.
Hope a longer cut in the back solves that problem. Keep us posted. Be well,
Binney0 -
Thanks for the slow and gentle reminder. I think I tend to go too fast. This week I'm a big crank, puffy as can be for reasons I do not understand, and up 4 pounds. I'm sure it's LE connected. I'll remember sllooowwwww.......
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ladies: although i don't post that often, i DO lurk alot LOL anyway; here i am, and even though the change is only 10 degrees, we have a cold front here... its' the 1st time the truncal has given me this much trouble.. so, im staying wrapped.. everyday, for awhile.. i wear my "foobs" out, so i wrap first, and they feel better on, too..
Kira; you, and Binney always amaze me with the amt of info you have got to give us.. i can't tell you how grateful i am to the two of you, for sticking around, and helping the rest of us "swell sisters" out...........3jays
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((Everyone Here))
Hi Binney and Kira
This is day 3 in the Medi550 SHIRT....hmmmmm
The top of my chest started feeling alittle full on day 2. Wondering if the scoop of the neck is tooo
low.
Day 3....definitely had a full pec load evening time yesterday. AND a really hard lumpy area next to my bicep above my elbow crease. Felt knots even.
This shirt has sleeves to mid upper arm... and I wear the sleeve over that. I am wondering if I am over compressed. Grrrrrr...
Still have a full chest today and have been not doing anything heavy.... going to wear the jovi chest pads and underarmor today... see LE/ PT tamara.
Hope you are all doing OK
xo
brazos
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Brazo, I saw the medi shirt at a convention with Binney and wondered if it would be comfortable.
Thank you so much for the information--you should feel free to give any and all feedback to your therapist, fitter and medi rep.
Hope it starts to work better soon.
Kira
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...Or if it doesn't, insist on a remake or a different product altogether. This has to WORK for us or it's useless, and these little wardrobe items are too pricey not to be fully functional. Good move to switch back to the underarmor until you can see the therapist!
Keep us posted,
Binney0 -
I am so angry right now!
I have a public kind of job, I'm out with lots of people everyday and I've gotten a flu shot the last several years. Last fall with my first year with Lymphedema and I went to Kroger (my local grocery store) and asked for a flu shot and told them I needed it in my butt because of bi-lateral lymphedema. It was not a problem.
This year has been a totally different story. I went to Walgreens today to get it, and had to wait forever. Why, I don't know. But after about fifteen minutes a lady comes out and wants me to fill out these forms and I tell her that I can't have it in my arm because of bi-lateral lymphedema. She looks at me with a blank face and she says, "I can't do that." I ask, "Why not." She says something about not having enough training. I shake my head in disbelief and walk away thinking, "A butt cheek or an arm, what is the difference."
Then, I go to Kroger where I had it done last year. Same thing happens. This time I unload on them, "I had it done here last year." They said, "Who did it?" I describe the person and the lady says, "I can't do it." Which then I proceed to say, "Where, then, can I have it? I have bi-lateral lymphedema, I can't have it done in my arm, what am I supposed to do? Where am I supposed to go?" At this point everyone is the pharmacy is looking at me with blank stares and shrugging their shoulders. Someone meekly says, "Try the health department." I walked away in tears. Why, I'm not so sure ... but it is so DUMB. Why can't they can't help us? I think part of what makes me so angry is if someone who doesn't know about the risks who has had bc ... they would just give up. And it makes it worse that it is pink October and all this breast cancer awareness. Yeah, breast cancer awareness and then you won't help someone who has had breast cancer?????!!!!!!!! It is all so maddening and it makes me want to yell and scream at the top of my lungs, "Someone help us!"
Hate it. So.badly.
I'm thinking now about not getting one.
What do you all think? Are you all getting a flu shot?
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Dawne-Hope, please get a flu shot--Binney gets them in her thigh, from the oncologist.
And, if you feel up to it, I sure hope you pink October those Walgreens and Kroger people--and just what is their medical training?? We give little babies shots in their thighs because we run out of limbs...Any nurse or person of that training level could give an intra-muscular shot in either the outside part of the thigh or the butt.
As Cookiegal once posted, the local news people love a personal story. You could contact the health reporter of the paper and discuss this, and/or let the Krogers and Walgreens know that you intend to let the media know how cruel and unhelpful they are to a breast cancer survivor.
I'd recommend trying a medical office for a flu shot, and if you have the energy and interest, go after these idiots.
Oh, and let them read this guide on how to give an intramuscular injection--:
http://www.drugs.com/cg/how-to-give-an-intramuscular-injection.html
Where can I give an IM shot?
The skin, and the muscles under the skin, cover nerves, blood vessels, and bones. It is important to give a shot where you will not hurt any of these body parts. There are 8 possible areas, 4 on each side of the body, where an IM shot can be given. It is important to choose the correct area. If caregivers showed you what areas are safe, follow their directions. Change the areas where you give shots. If you give a shot in the same place every day or even every week, scar tissue can build up. The scar tissue will affect how the medicine will work. Following is information about the safe areas to give a shot.
- Vastus Lateralis (VAS-tuss lat-er-AL-iss) Muscle (Thigh): The thigh is used often for children, especially children under 3. It is also a good place for an adult. The thigh area is especially useful if you need to give yourself a shot because it is easy to see.
- Look at the thigh that will get the shot. In your mind, divide the thigh (the area between the knee and the hip) into three equal parts. The middle third is where the shot will go.
- This muscle is called the vastus lateralis. It runs along the top of the thigh (the front) and a little to the outside. Put your thumb in the middle of the top of the thigh, and your fingers along the side. The muscle you feel between them is the vastus lateralis.
- Ventrogluteal (ven-trow-GLUE-tee-ull) Muscle (Hip): The hip is an area with good bone landmarks and very little danger of hitting blood vessels or nerves. It is a good place for a shot for adults and children over 7 months old. The person getting the shot should be lying in his or her side.
- To find the correct place to give a shot in the hip to another person: Place the heel of your hand on the hip bone at the top of the thigh. Your wrist will be in line with the person's thigh. Point your thumb at the groin, fingers point to the person’s head. Form a “V” with your fingers by opening a space between your pointer finger and the other three fingers. Your little finger and ring finger will feel the edge of a bone along the fingertips. The place to give the shot is in the middle of the V-shaped triangle.
- Deltoid (DEL-toyd) Muscle (Upper arm muscle): The person getting the shot can be sitting, standing or lying down. Start with a completely exposed upper arm. You will give the shot in the center of an upside down triangle. Feel for the bone that goes across the top of the upper arm. This bone is called the acromion process. The bottom of it will form the base of the triangle. The point of the triangle is directly below the middle of the base at about the level of the armpit. The correct area to give a shot is in the center of the triangle, 1 to 2 inches (2.5 to 5 cm) below the bottom of the acromion process.
- Dorsogluteal (door-so-GLUE-tee-ull) Muscle (rear-end): The upper rear end area is the area where most people have gotten shots. Expose one entire cheek of the rear-end. With an alcohol wipe draw a line from the top of the crack between the cheeks to the side of the body. Starting in the middle of the same side, draw another line across the first one with the alcohol wipe. Start from about 3 inches above the first line to about half way down the middle of the cheek. You should have drawn a cross. In the upper outer square you will feel a curved bone. The shot will go in the upper outer square below the curved bone.
How do I choose the best muscle for the shot?
If your caregivers have told you which muscle to use, follow their directions. Muscles change with age. For example, the rear-end area is never used for infants or children under 3 years old because it is not developed well enough. The deltoid may work well for a person with developed muscles in the upper body. The deltoid cannot be used if that area is very thin or underused. The muscle must be easy to reach.
- Deltoid (DEL-toyd) Muscle (Upper arm muscle): The person getting the shot can be sitting, standing or lying down. Start with a completely exposed upper arm. You will give the shot in the center of an upside down triangle. Feel for the bone that goes across the top of the upper arm. This bone is called the acromion process. The bottom of it will form the base of the triangle. The point of the triangle is directly below the middle of the base at about the level of the armpit. The correct area to give a shot is in the center of the triangle, 1 to 2 inches (2.5 to 5 cm) below the bottom of the acromion process.
- To find the correct place to give a shot in the hip to another person: Place the heel of your hand on the hip bone at the top of the thigh. Your wrist will be in line with the person's thigh. Point your thumb at the groin, fingers point to the person’s head. Form a “V” with your fingers by opening a space between your pointer finger and the other three fingers. Your little finger and ring finger will feel the edge of a bone along the fingertips. The place to give the shot is in the middle of the V-shaped triangle.
0 - Vastus Lateralis (VAS-tuss lat-er-AL-iss) Muscle (Thigh): The thigh is used often for children, especially children under 3. It is also a good place for an adult. The thigh area is especially useful if you need to give yourself a shot because it is easy to see.
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Dawne-Hope, I don't post often here, but follow closely. I had a similar experience with blood pressures and blood draws. Other than when I was in NOLA I have been told at every single doctors appointment -- including at the oncologist -- that they couldn't do blood pressures in my leg . Really?? That is Nursing 101. How shameful. And at more than one local lab I was told that their phlebotomists are not "trained" to do blood draws anywhere but arm and hand. I took the syringe, pulled off my sock and said, Fine... I'll do it myself! They really freaked over that.
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Dawne-Hope, I'm sorry!
I've had the same experience. I look for older nurses because they have less awe for the "rules" and are more inclined to do what makes sense -- which in this case is to give you the shot elsewhere. But the fact is that these nurses are hired by the companies that do these flu-shot clinics, and THEIR rules say arm only, so it's probably not the fault of the stores themselves, but of the company that runs the clinic. In fact, the fine print of the form you sign usually says if you've had bilateral mastectomies (not LE even, just the risk that results from the masectomy), then they won't do the shot and you should see your doctor. I have no idea why they have the rule about arms only, but I do appreciate the fact that they recognize the risk to anyone who's had a mastectomy -- even our doctors sometimes don't get that.So now I just get it done at the onc's office when I'm there for a follow-up visit. It's less hassle and I don't have to find a nurse who's willing to bend the rules.
Jerusha, I love it! My plebotomist invites others in when I come in for foot draws so they can watch, and she always tells them that the only difference between using the arm or the foot is that the veins in the foot are easier to access.
Dawne-Hope, I hope you have a doctor on your team whose nurses will handle this in a supportive way. LE is hard enough without getting hassled over something as simple as a flu shot.
Gentle hugs,
Binney0 -
for sure....!!!
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I would get my flu shot every year at my employer (17 years). They worked with the health dept and the nurses would come to the office to give the shots. Since I was the receptionist, I knew when they arrived there were usually people waiting to get their shots. After my surgery, I notified the nurses when they arrived that I needed my shot in the thigh due to risk of LE. We decided to do the shot as the last one of the day. The nurse would take me into the private bathroom, I would drop the waistband of my pants and they would inject the shot into my thigh with no problem. I asked at walmart last year (since I am unemployed since sept 2010) if they could give the shot in my thigh and they said no. I am going to my doctor next week for my physical and will ask if they can do my flu shot, if not I will go to the health dept.
Sheila
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I got measured for a sleeve yesterday. The PT (who I just love) said that he thought the forearm could get better, but I am anxious to get out of this wrap 24 hours a day and he thought it was close enough. I did know that LE was forever, but I asked him how long I'd have to wear the sleeve. He said forever. I was under the impression, that you go through good periods and don't need to do the wrapping and sleeves constantly. (He did say after radiation once I'm where he thinks I can be, he'll order me a night sleeve so I can stop wrapping.) Do you never stop doing this, or do you only do it when you think you're in danger of a "flare"? I am getting a little depressed thinking I will wear this every day for the rest of my life. Winter is coming so I am not going to mind now, although the glove will show, but all summer long? Grrrrrr........
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Dawne-Hope--I am sorry you are having so much frustration just for a little shot! Don't give up. The flu is not fun. I got mine at my GYN's office.
Kay--I am now in a day and night sleeve. I am on my third day sleeve since June as my therapist thought I was as down as I would get but I did go down more after that. The first sleeve is not tight at all in my upper arm so I don't use it. Anyway, she told me that I needed to wear the sleeves full time except for MLD and showering for a year. Said that gives my arm time to get used to compression. After that I can try short periods of it off and an occasional night without night garment. Since I am Stage 2 she said I MIGHT be able to have to wear it only for exercising and heavy lifting and continue the night garment BUT I might have to go with it forever. It just depends on how my arm responds.
To all: I had a colonoscopy and endoscopy last week. I was really nervous about whether I would have difficulty with LE understanding from reading some of the horror stories on this site. They were great. My gastroenterologist told me to wear the sleeve/glove during the procedure rather than wrap as the procedure was so short. Getting a vein out of my good arm is always very difficult. I worried that they would want to go to my right arm. They assured me that they would use the foot or neck if they could not get one in my arm and my right arm would never be touched. A blood pressure cuff was put on my leg. After 10 tries a former pediatric nurse got a vein out of my wrist. As we waited to go to the procedure room she started telling me all of the precautions I needed to take with LE. I already knew all of them and was amused by it. She told me though that a lot of people come in with swollen arms or legs and obviously have LE and do not know it. Or some have it or at risk but do not know not to have bp or blood draws from that limb. A good day all around.
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(((((((Dawne))))),
I am so sorry. I had a very similar week and am flat out exhausted and somewhat humiliated by having to advocate for staying away from my arms. I went for pre-op workup and knew the blood work would be a problem. I was at a huge academic med center and figured a resident or intern could draw the blood if the tech was not "allowed". I was flat out refused and told "we don't do that" oh well, don't know what to tell you. I very nicely askednif they could call a doctor or anesthesia to donit. Nope, wouldn't call. I said, I have to have surgery here next week and I need blood and if you can't do it here at the hospital, what would you recommend? I finally said, well, I'm a nurse, I'll draw it myself in my foot. Finally, a very nice tech said, let's see if anesthesia is still here. Found the dr who was just in next room and it ended up being no big deal to the dr.
Yesterday, went to see internist who was covering for my dr to get my medical clearance. the tech was huffing and puffing and kept leaving the room to "check" on how they could possibly take my BP in my leg. Another tech came in, waved her finger at my arm sleeves and said, what is this? It went on like this throughout the exam even the dr gave me a hard time.
So, I know I am supposed to use this as a time to educate but it all left me feeling so humiliated and defeated. Now, I have to prep for the fight next week at surgery to use my leg /neck for iv and trust that nothing will go wrong while I'm sedated.0 -
I asked for a RX from my BS that says: No B/P's / IV's/ Venipunctures Bilateral Upper Extremities and another for FOOTSTICKS ONLY. I keep it on my person at all times.
Ask for a Large B/P Cuff....have them wrap it at the base of your thigh, show them to put the stethoscope behind your knee where the Popliteal Artery is....
Any hospital should have someone capable of drawing a Footstick... using a ButterFly needle/ a much smaller gauge needle. IV Team/ Venipuncturists are all able to use Butterflys. Anesthesia can ALWAYS do IV's in your feet following the same as it is what they use for kids and babies..
The only thing I have not done yet is to get medical bracelets that say the above. I had a blank out at the drs office when they went to take a b/p in my arm and I gave them my arm and briefly pumped the cuff till I almost freaked. ARRRGGAAAAHHHH!
I am amazed that all Nurses/ everywhere are not on the same page about these issues. Some are... some are not. They will say to me " BUT!!!!!! you did not have any nodes removed!" Well...I have Truncal Le and its Nasty.
Advocate Advocate Advocate, for YOURSelf. The entire Medical System is not on the same page as we are.
Happy Fryday. Off to Le/Pt to see what is up with this Medi550 Shirt. Has made me feel worse.
xo brazos
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Last year I went to Wal-Mart for my flu shot. They said they could do it in my thigh. (I said I would just pull my pants leg up.) then I filled out the form and was honest about my bilat mast. She then said I would have to see my doctor for the shot. Apparently they tell that to all BC patients. I ended up going to the Visiting Nurses Association, where they did it easily and quickly in my thigh. I moved this summer, so I asked my doctor about it. She said she would do it for me, but we haven't done it yet. I need to get on this! I don't know what the problem is with the companies that contract to do it at pharmacies. I think it is just a misunderstanding about what those of us with bilats can and can't have.
Dawn
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Still getting used to this LE status. I have been seeing 2 LE therapists at the same facility. They are sharing me
. One is definitely more skilled/knowledgeable than the other, but they both seem good. I'm just curious. Does anyone else find themselves humming "Soft Kitty" from Big Bang Theory while doing MLD massage?
I hope everyone has a great weekend.
Kelli
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A silly question for the experts here. I noticed after watching one of the j rovig videos that she is massaging her arm over her shirt sleeve. I am sure it's just for demo but does it help me at all if I do light strokes over my shirt (like when I'm dressed but have a few minutes in the car) or does the mld have to be done skin to skin?
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There is a flu mist available.
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I did the stupidest thing. I used to write shorthand reminders to myself on my left hand, usually just one letter. Well, I wrote one on the end of my medical beige sleeve, and now I can't get it out. It's just ballpoint pen, I can't figure out why it's so stubborn. I don't like the beige sleeve anyway, but it fits and it's too soon for a new one.
There was a study a few years ago looking at injections intended to be IM. They used CT to assess needle placement. For many adults, the fat layer on the butt is too thick for an injection to be IM accurately. Many end up being intra-fat. So ask for your thigh unless it's something where it doesn't matter much.
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