Why Im Not Doing Chemo
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Hi Hillck,My tumor was HER2 negative, but I can tell you that some tumors can definitely grow that fast. Along with other factors, the Ki-67 marker is one indicator. In my case, my ki-67 was 100%, which means that at the time of the test, 100% of my tumor cells were in the active phase of dividing. I actually did feel it noticeably larger between biopsy and surgery, and my docs at the time attributed it to biopsy swelling, heightened awareness, etc., but after the ki-67 results came back sky high, it explained a lot.
Eve, I know you think some of us are "arguing" with you or trying to change your mind. For what it's worth, I don't think it's that at all. I think we see you continuing to present factually incorrect information, and we're concerned that you may be basing your decision on bad information. My best advice is to work with your oncologist to work out a plan that works for you. Best of luck!
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Hillck, I'm not sure exactly when or under what circumstances they do the ki-67, but yeah, it's definitely scary when you feel it growing larger. Your grade is 2, so that's sort of medium, but the fact that you got PCR is fabulous!! It's so hard not to second-guess everything, for sure, but I believe at least to a point, we just have to trust our doctors. After all, they're the trained experts. There seems to be some question about my staging too, so I know what you mean.
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"Introduction Knowledge of tumor growth is important in the
planning and evaluation of screening programs, clinical trials,
and epidemiological studies. Studies of tumor growth rates in
humans are usually based on small and selected samples. In the
present study based on the Norwegian Breast Cancer
Screening Program, tumor growth was estimated from a large
population using a new estimating procedure/model.
Methods A likelihood-based estimating procedure was used,
where both tumor growth and the screen test sensitivity were
modeled as continuously increasing functions of tumor size. The
method was applied to cancer incidence and tumor
measurement data from 395,188 women aged 50 to 69 years.
Results Tumor growth varied considerably between subjects,
with 5% of tumors taking less than 1.2 months to grow from 10
mm to 20 mm in diameter, and another 5% taking more than 6.3
years. The mean time a tumor needed to grow from 10 mm to 20
mm in diameter was estimated as 1.7 years, increasing with age.
The screen test sensitivity was estimated to increase sharply
with tumor size, rising from 26% at 5 mm to 91% at 10 mm.
Compared with previously used Markov models for tumor
progression, the applied model gave considerably higher model
fit (85% increased predictive power) and provided estimates
directly linked to tumor size.
Conclusion Screening data with tumor measurements can
provide population-based estimates of tumor growth and screen
test sensitivity directly linked to tumor size. There is a large
variation in breast cancer tumor growth, with faster growth
among younger women."0 -
I find these time estimations so interesting - my tumor was 5 x 4.5 x 3. (Subtext: Eeeeeeeek!) I guess I must have had cancer for a while? And my ob-gyn missed it every time? (Subtext: Dumbass bitch. Thanks for nothing.)
Hillck, I was healthy before, but now I'm a little bit nuts -super healthy. It's OK, though, because I have lost about 10lbs since diagnosis.
I'm always interested in what others are doing. Hoping that every little bit helps. (I have an amazing niece that I would do anything for.)*sigh* Cancer sucks. But you ladies are great.
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my tumor grew super fast from the time of discovery to diagnosis.. under 2 months. I'd say from 2 cm to 5.
ick ick sic
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For awhile...perhaps done, I'm not coming back to bco for a long time. To my dear friends who have helped me thank you. I appreciated all the imput and research put into this thread. I wish the best for everyone.
With love, Evebarry
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I don't blame you, but I will miss reading your posts. Its obvious you are a very gentle soul - that is why so many are attracted to you and care about you (although we sometimes have a funny way of showing it). : (
Best wishes to you.
Sincerely,
Orange
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Deary me........
i will miss you.
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I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
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I'm sorry to see you leave. A lot of people care about you a lot and we will be thinking about you.
Wishing you the best.
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Thanks for your intelligent questions and observations, Eve.
A.A.
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Eve: Wishing you all the best. Please keep in touch as I would like to know how you are doing.
Sending you prayers and healing energy!
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Though I am new to this BB I am no stranger to being flamed on the internet. I was harassed and bullied on a diet support sight because they did not all approve of my weight loss methods. I had been a regular poster for 5 years. I hit my goal weight without drugs. I was kind and tried to be helpful. And in return my feelings were hurt and I felt emotionally damaged and drained. And so many people hated me... I swore I would never post on any BB again. But here I am. Ladies, BC is a serious disease. No one needs the stress of being flamed and bullied no matter the decisions they choose. We will not all agree on everything. That makes us individual. But we all have a common bond, which is BC. And we all know none of us has any guarentees, reguardless of treatments. Please, please be kind to others. We need each other and no one with cancer should feel left out in the cold and cut contact from friends they have made.
That said, I am here to learn from all of you. But please do be kind in your responses. The hurt from flaming and bullying is huge and leaves a mark on your heart. I would know.
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Circles: Hard to believe that adults would particiipate in this kind of behavior, particularly on a site like BCO that is here to offer comfort, support, and education on bc. I don't understand any of it and have been really disappointed in what I have found on some of the threads.
There are good threads where the women love and support each other and are never judgemental of your choices. Those are the ones I try to frequent most, but since I tend to do things the natural way, I want to learn from the alternative and complementary threads as well. It has been difficult to cut through all of the dueling egos as I call them, and get to the good information, but it is there if you are willing to ignore those that are out to sabotage anything that doesn't square with their beliefs.
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Thank you Nancy.
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Some very good articles out on the new cancer vaccines that are being developed. Interesting to note that they all target the killer T cells in the body to boost the immune system so that it can fight off the cancer naturally. It was stressed in some of the articles that it is important to keep the immune system in optimal condition because the vaccine works much better if the immune system is strong, and that the best results came from those who had not been previously treated with chemo.
I don't know how to post these articles, but if you google cancer vaccine/Israel, you will get a good description of one of the vaccines being developed that could be out in 3 to 6 years and a video that explains exactly how the vaccine works in the body.
Let's all pray that this sees the light of day soon and helps to save many more lives!
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seriously kaara!?..my onc, as you know, just said on monday I would have to have a compromised immune system to qualify for the shingle vaccine trial going here where i live...he said i dont qualify because i havent done chemo....maybe there is one where, as you say, a 'healthy' immune system is needed, i will check out your google suggestion, thanks........0
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Why I'm not doing chemo...
Because I had to fight and push for an Onco test. And I mean I had to INSIST. I was told by the Onocologist he knew best, I needed chemo, my tumor was huge, the test was expensive, blah blah, and he could already give me a score based on my path report of 33% reoccurance and chemo would reduce that chance by half.
Well, with an Onco score of 22 and a reoccurance rate of 14% I can now clearly see my best interest was not what it was all about. He just lost a customer and thousands of dollars in chemo revenue.
Please, ladies--all of you, don't jump right into treatments because they tell you that you have to. You have TIME to do Onco and it is your RIGHT to KNOW if chemo will help you or not. The greed is huge. Chemo is not just a treatment but instead is a BIG BUSINESS. Please don't be afraid no matter what they tell you. Get the Onco, get the facts.
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i havent been diganosed with cancer as yet and hopefully nt have sum lumps getting chked by the doct this week but chemo 2 me is toxic ive read so many things on it what a painfull thing 2 go through if i was ever 2 get cancer id definatly be having radation therapy in my opinion less invasive and also seek natural cures aswell
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shoegal76: I hoping you won't be dx with cancer and your lumps will be B9! Someone told me on the site early on not to decide what I was going to do and not do until my final dx. What kind of treatment you have depends on your age and the type of bc dx you get. Fortunately, mine was early stage low grade IDC with a low oncotype score, so I didn't need chemo. Rads were recommended but I passed on them, because I felt they were an overkill for my stage and grade. I am going to take tamoxifen because it protects against distant mets.
The one thing you can do right now is begin with good diet and lifestyle changes, and some supplements to boost your immune system so that it can begin to fight off this disease on its own. It's the best choice you can make while you are waiting for your dx. I hope everything works out for you!
Prayers & hugs!
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Nancy: Agree....I just hate the one size fits all approach. Why should I have the same rads treatment for my early stage low grade bc as someone who has a higher grade more aggressive one? The RO's can't answer that question..they just pull the string and "standard of care" comes out of their mouth. I tried to get a partial breast rad treatment and got the runaround, so I just opted out totally.
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CIRCLES - I agree with you 100%. Cancer is a big money maker from the oncologists down to the pharmaceutical reps (drug pushers in nice suits).
My first onco wanted me to have chemo AND radiation AND hormone blockers despite having a DMX and 1 positive node. I insisted on an Onco test and it came back with a score of 9. I fired this onco and got a new one who couldn't understand what onco #1 was planning on radiating. (Perhaps he would have won a free trip?)
I wish Evebarry hadn't left because I feel the exact same way. I stopped taking the Femara 2 weeks ago and today my onc asked me to try Tamoxifen. My answer: when the drug manufacturers can come up with a drug that doesn't have such horrible side effects I might consider it. Right now in my cocoon I am more afraid of chemo, rads & drugs than cancer. Yes, maybe I'm still in denial but I'm happy here.
Denise
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Denise the main reason why I suddently decided to leave bco is that I over reacted to a post. I also tired of going in circles with the whole chemo discussion. I did what I came to do and I don't feel the need to say more on this thread in regard to chemo. The discipline of not posting on this website for a week was good for me. BCO was taking too much of my time. At the same time, emotionally, I have become quite fond of a lot of people who come here, which makes it hard to completely leave. After this week, I'm going to try only post on the weekend, when not working...as I still do need support and or have questions in regard to my now cancer therapy of herceptin and reconstruction and to check up friends here
. I had my first herceptin infusion today. It turned out to be an all day affair. I had a few side effects so they had me take breaks throughout the infusion to let my body adapt to the drug. I feel confident. I'm writing more about this on the her2+ thread rather than here on the chemo thread.
(((hugs))) to all you wild, firey alternative and conventional bc sisters.
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Good to hear from you Eve...keep us posted! Glad you were able to do the herceptin alone like you wanted.
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Eve - you must always do what you feel is right for you, whether it's regarding cancer or stress in your life.
Please keep us informed on how you are doing.
Denise
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Good evening to all you Ladies
Can anyone help me with this? I am reading my Pathology Report. I do not see a "grade" on it, all it says is the Pathologic stage is pT1c pNO pMX. I know all of you are quite up to all of this. Can anyone put this in simple lanquage.
Thanks Rosieo
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rosieo - Hi! I will try to help you. Is this your surgical report? What kind of surgery did you have? This is staging info - T1 is 2 centimeters- or less, NO is no nodes, MX is unable to determine if cancer has spread. This looks like a stage 1 other than the lack of info about distant spread, which can't be determined from the pathology report. Your grade is comprised of the information on the report that says - 1. tubule formation, 2. mitotic rate, and 3. nuclear grade. Each of these is given a score of 1-3. Grade is a combined score of these three, grade 1 is a total of 3-5, grade 2 is 6-7, and grade 3 is 8-9 Does your path report contain this information?
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specialk
No my report does not give any of that I am going to my BS tomorrow and I will ask him. I willtake my pathology report with me. My tumor I believe was 1.5 centimeters. So what you are saying is the p really means nothing, T1 is 2 centimeters (which mine was 1.5) and what about the "c" what does mean. As I stated my stage shows pT1c. Thank you so much for your help.
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rosieo - the c means more than 1cm, not more than 2cm - makes sense, as yours was right in between. The little "p" means pathological stage as opposed to clinical stage. This distinction means that this staging is based on pathology only. Your oncologist would determine what your clinical staging is based on all the information available, not just your pathology report.
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Special K
My oncologist wanted me to do chemo but then I asked for a oncto type test. It was 1 with a recurrance of 3% I had a left breast mastectomy, ( right breast removed 15 years ago) so I am breast less.
Margins were clear. No lymph node activity..11 lymph nodes removed.Thank you I am always wondering about these things
Thanks Rosieo
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