Why Im Not Doing Chemo
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you are cute
and slim!I am 100%ER+ like you eve, quite high! thats why i decided tamoxifen is worth a try. I am very interested in the tests being discussed on a thread called "side effects your oncologists didnt tell you about" or something to that effect...in active topics recently. check it out, it has detailed info on blood tests that can help determine if Tamoxifen will be beneficial etc etc xxx
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jazz: that was the type of statistical 'wording' that i was trying to explain occurs on the other chemo thread
Eve: i think you should give your doc a quick call re your vomiting...:(
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Ladies - Tamoxifen does not suppress estrogen, it blocks it from the cancer cells, that is why it is recommended for pre-menopausal women because they need estrogen's beneficial effects. Aromotase inhibitors are for post-menopausal women and are all estrogen suppressors - Aromosin, Arimidex and Femara. These drugs suppress the body's manufacturing of estrogen in post-menopausal women.
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Eve- I know you can't be wanting to go through all of this again. I think it might be finally combining against you. Your scheduled to start all of this and today's scan was a real step in that direction. I felt like that before and during the surgery period. That emotional part of us - even though we've made the decision - that kicks in at the thought of the unknown future and those question within us as to whether we're doing the right thing or not. That leap of faith. Going through it all again and again. I can't like this, I don't like this, and I don't want to play this game anymore. All those emotional side effects we have even though we know what we want.
Added to that it could also be something physical like the flu, with your low immune system, setting you up to catch a bug. If your pushing yourself too hard - STOP IT! Take care of yourself and treat yourself good even if you refuse all treatments. Your immune system is just as vulnerable to bugs out there in socializing with friends or family as it is to cancer growth. Take really good care of yourself, and practice anti- stress methods. Don't push too hard because of frustrations or anger at this whole mess coming back at you. We can all do that. Really let your mind rest for a few days. Put that tree up. Make a good soup you can smell through out your home. Bake some cookies. Be good to yourself. You are important. God Bless and sorry the Mother side of my nature is showing. I'm hoping I'm at least 10 years your senior. LOL. God Bless and stay warm and safe tonight. You matter.
I have a friend who is an attorney who came by to sing Christmas Caroles here last night and we started talking about yesterdays interview and the legalities and ethics of all of these issues. I forgot her DH was a pathologist an whose secular profession is that of a cancer path. My friend said she wanted him to come over and discuss all of this and that maybe he could help. He had initially studied to be an Oncologist but said he felt the administration of chemo was barbaric and chose the pathology instead. I'm interested in what he has to say about all of this.
Edit note: that's life is correct, calling the Doctor can't hurt.
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thats-life- Got your Christmas tree up yet? I'm hoping some twinkling lights might cheer your night. I know your DD would love it at her age. 13 is particularity interested in Christmas and gifts. I know it's gotta be a hard time for you right now with everything on your shoulders but you have such grace with it all. You are in prayer and thought girlfriend. I want to have to time to read your blog but can't tonight with everything happening here. So glad you're sharing with us. You have a wonderful evening. I have to laugh when I read these statistic items. I was never great with math and I am always sure I'm the one in the zero percentile. LOL Warm Hugs and blessings. We'll do the best we can and the rest is up to God. I want you to know your important too.
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Special K...why then the two oncologist say I would do best with tamoxifen and not the Aromotase inhibitors? The first one I visited in January said that although I'm post menopause she thought I would do better on tamoxifen because the other would really age me more and be harder on me phsically. She knew that thus far I didn't look my age and knew by pushing hormone inhibitors on me that I would suddenly age. Why would any woman in her sixties want to age any faster than they are? We know that with age comes all sorts of physical problems...hip problems, heart and disease. Why would we want to put our selves at risk for age side effects? It seems that if tamoxifen does the trick without the aging factor that it even would be a better choice for us.
I'm just not sure getting rid of our estrogen is the right thing to do. Doesn't all ourselves feed on estrogen...the good cells as well. Isn't it necessary to keep our cells from mutating, aging and becoming cancerous? There just has to be a better way
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Kaara- do you have a surgery date as yet? I'm hoping it's not before your holidays. I don't know if you've posted the date before but I know if it's pending you've got to have it on your mind. After I speak with my friends about all of this I'll let you know what's up with the legal issues and whether the HMOs are implementing some new health laws as quietly as they can. If one HMO is doing it it's going to wind up across the board. You have a nice evening and your in prayer. Always enjoy our conversations.
Hey Special K - You definitives are wonderful and helps simplify so many things. Thanks for sharing with us. A big virtual hug to you.
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SpecialK: Please understand, this is not directed at you personally....I know you are just the messenger, but isn't it sad that pre meopausal women are perceived to need the benefits of estrogen, while post menopausal women can do without it. Who makes these decisions and why? It would seem that the only answer is.... we're expendable!
jazz: My surgery is scheduled for next Monday, the 12th. I should be recovered in time for the holidays since it is a lumpectomy and SNB. If I need rads, that won't start until after the first of the year. I'm still trying to make our annual ski trip in late Feb:) Good luck with that HMO issue...don't give up until you have an answer that is satisfactory to you, and then get it in writing. IMHO I don't think an insurance company could deny benefits if you refused to take a drug that was recommended, particularly if they couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that it was going to save your life.
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Hello all, yes to each his own, yes it,s a individual chioce and mine was ( L mast, chemo and rads and 5 yrs on Tamoxifen and I am 17 YRS CANCER FREE(Praise GOD) I chose to get it ALL to give me more of a chance for LONG TERM SURVIVAL, IT WORKED., idc,stage 2,3 nodes, I have HOPE for US ALL.msphil
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msphil: That's wonderful.....congratulations on being free of bc for l7 years! Thanks for sharing.
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msphil...cograts! My question is what kind of cancer did you have, what grade, stage and etc. I know that 74% of early cancers don't need more than surgery...sometimes I wonder how many early stages that went through treatment were in the 74%?
Hope you continue to be free...we all do
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I think expendable is the perfect word. Yes it fits. Women have come a long way but we're still not there yet are we.
Kaara I didn't realize your surgery was pending that quick. Well we both have deadlines don't we. You will be in thought and prayer most especially on the 12th. Lumpectomy or Mx, it all sucks where we have to put our bodies through that. All surgeries are scary but I'm glad you shared you chose your BS on his record and you feel comfortable with him and his expertize in what he does. Makes it easier. Heal quickly. Here's hoping all goes well and Christmas is a joy for you this year. I guess we can never forget in sharing in this forum everyone is going through something and needs support and good thoughts. God Bless. edit: LOL on the above post. LOL
Eve was checking into the whys and the one recommended appears to have more side effects - some being severe while the Aromatase Inhibitors have less and work better from what I see. The difference in the recommendations can sometimes be cost effective and based on our insurance coverage.
this is them: Let's compare prices for a 30-day supply or a year of these hormone therapies. You can see how big the savings are when you buy generic versions of these drugs. These costs are estimates based on national averages and are higher than your cost would be with health insurance. I pulled the Costs off thier chart and sent you the link.
Drug Dose 30 Days Annual Cost
Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) 20 mg $21.90 $262.80
Tamoxifen (generic) 20 mg $13.51 $164.37
Arimidex (anastrazole) 1 mg $379.80 $2,300.00
Arimidex (generic) 1 mg $25 - $79 $948.00
Femara (letrozole): 2.5 mg $441.76 $5,301.12
Aromasin (exemestane) 25 mg $377.12 $4,525.44Sources:
American Society of Clinical Oncology Clinical Practice Guideline: Update on Adjuvant Endocrine Therapy for Women with Hormone Receptor-Positive Breast Cancer. Published ahead of print on 7/12/2010.
Experts Issue New Guidelines on Breast Cancer Drugs. www.womenshealth.gov. Accessed 8-7-2010.
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jazz: Great info on the cost comparison! Thank you so much for your support...prayers to you as well that your decison can be made based on choice alone.
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I went through menopause several years ago without any hormones and had a fairly easy time of it. It hasn't aged me at all nor impacted qol. My bc is 100% ER positive and I have a single 2cm bone met. I have been on Arimidex for a short period of time so don't know if se's will develop down the road. I am expecting my first grandchild in March so I hope the biggest side effect will be many years to enjoy her and my family. Caryn
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Kaara - I think it comes down to the math - pre-menopausal women have more years to live and need that estrogenic protection for a longer period, for heart and bones. Tamoxifen allows the negative properties of estrogen to be blocked for ER+ pre-menopausal, while letting the positive properties do their job. In theory, post-menopausal women have a shorter lifespan. Those are the cold, hard facts! Also, if one is post-menopausal far less estrogen is being naturally produced anyway. Aromotase inhibitors have been shown to be more effective than Tamoxifen for this population. Unless it is known for sure (like me) that you are post-menopausal, your hormone levels will be checked before being put on an AI. For me personally, I am all in favor of suppressing any estrogen because it has not been my friend - I am 96% ER+, prior to total hysterectomy 10 years ago I had a 3cm ovarian mass that was pre-malignant, and uterine fibroids too numerous to count, along with the fibrocystic masses that made me diligent about mammograms and lead to finding my tumor. I had a clear breast ultrasound 2 years ago, and by Sept. '09 had a 2 cm breast mass, strongly ER+ and Her2neu+.
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exbrnxgrl...I love to hear of women who've gone through several years of menopause without it aging them. I do think strong estrogen helps our body to stay a little more together
I too pride myself that aging hasn't yet affected me nor my quality of life. My doc says it's genes, and not smoking. Perhaps I am a little vain, but I'm not in a hurry to age...or the illnesses or problems that come along with aging. I love Jazz, Kaara and a few of the other senior ladies who are spunky, whoes personality are infectious, and fun. Those kind of people are ageless. I'm so sorry you are now stage IV. What amazes me about your stats is that you are grade 1, stage IV. You've must have had cancer a long time before you discovered it.
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Caryn- Arimidex appears to be one of the best treatments with the least amount of side effects and or dangers of all the hormones they give BC patients. If you haven't suffered too many thus far, let's hope you don't have any to worry about before or after your March celebration. I went shopping with my DS today to pick out a gift for the youngest DGD. 23 years ago Dec15th. Where does that time go. Hoping your evening is warm and happy. Are you looking for a boy or a girl or both? LOL
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Special K, exbrgrl and I both are now several years past menopause. She is 100% estrogen, and my tumor was 96% estrogen positive. Why do post menopausal women have such high estrogen? If we are in our mid sixties we still have a good 30 + years to live. Like Kaara said, why should we be offered less quality of life than those who are pre menopausal? Why not have quality a life throughout our sixties, seventies and the rest of our life?
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eve - my avatar pic is fairly recent and I have been post-menopausal for 10 years. I don't feel as though it has aged me either. Most people don't guess my age, I am 55. Diet, exercise and taking care of yourself count for a lot!
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I had a clear mammo 13 months before my suspicious one. After bmx I was stage IIB. During port insertion lung was nicked so it looked good on the x ray but slowly deflated over the course of 2 wks., when it was accidentally discovered on a PET scan which also picked up the bone met. 6 days and 3 chest tubes in the hospital. Portable chest tube for almost 4 weeks at home during which time biopsy confirmed bone met. So I went from IIB to IV in about 6 weeks. The PET scan as it turns out was a blessing because the bone met would not have been found until much later. It's been quite a trip but I am happy to be fighting cancer instead of dealing with the collapsed lung! BTW the chance of a lung puncture during port installment is 1%. Caryn
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What side effects can this medication cause?
Anastrozole may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:
weakness
headache
hot flashes
sweating
stomach pain
nausea
vomiting
loss of appetite
constipation
diarrhea
heartburn
weight gain
joint, bone, or muscle pain
breast pain
mood changes
depression
difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep
nervousness
dizziness
vaginal bleeding
vaginal dryness or irritation
pain, burning, or tingling in the hands or feet
dry mouth
hair thinning
Some side effects can be serious. If you experience any of these symptoms, call your doctor immediately:
chest pain
sore throat, cough, fever, chills, swollen glands, or other signs of infection
swelling, redness, or warmth in hand or arm
difficult, painful, or urgent urination
blurred vision or vision changes
yellowing of the skin or eyes
pain in the upper right part of the stomach
skin lesions, ulcers, or blisters
rash
hives
itching
shortness of breath
difficulty swallowing or breathing
swelling of the eyes, face, lips, tongue, throat, arms, hands, feet, ankles, or lower legs
Anastrozole may cause or worsen osteoporosis. It can decrease the density of your bones and increase the chance of broken bones and fractures. Talk to your doctor about the risks of taking this medication and to find out what you can do to decrease these risks.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000982/
http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/hormonal/aromatase_inhibitors/arimidex.jsp
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I don't think it is going to cause me any breast pain.
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Eve, I don't pay too much attention to the very long list of possible side effects that come with virtually every medication. I will deal with the se's when and if they occur. As to high % of ER positive receptivity, that is the tumor's receptivity. I don't know if it has anything with overall estrogen levels in ones bodies. My hormone level testing clearly showed I was post menopausal, so perhaps they are not related. Caryn
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Special K- I went through the same issues in 05 with a rad hysterectomy. It was cancer. Hormone therapy did not favor me either, and was the cause of the cancer to begin with. 5 years later I am TN and hormones aren't even on the table. It's the "In Theory" I've always worried about. Cateloguing women by size shape color and hair and handing them all the same pill doesn't always work does it. It's like my GYN said: Oops! LOL I am so sorry you're going through all of this as well. I enjoy the facts or the info you're sharing. It has helped simplify a lot in my - I believe EVE called it - SENIOR MIND. LOL It's just freaking hard isn't it.
I don't think my skin or stamina has changed much through all of this though. I'm not a couch potatoe, and can accomplish as much and actually more than during pre menopausal times and I don't suffer the down time those monthlys used to bring. Eve I don't think you're going to suddenly wake up old because of all of this. You may find yourself looking and feeling younger than ever. Good skin is hereditary. Just be conscience of it and take special care of it while you're passing through this ordeal.
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To end my night here...after lunch today, because I haven't felt well, I haven't accomplished much this afternoon. I' feeling a lot better tonight. I don't know if it was caused by the Pet scan or just a fluke. The only thing that bothers me now is where they injected the radioactive into my wrist. It was the left side arm...and it is still very painful. It was a painful insertion of the needle. Is this always the case when doing an IV for a Pet Scan...although the IV was only in there a few minutes.
Talking about the whole aging factor. I thought about the topic more this evening. Ok, if you are in your sixties and dx with cancer, especially early cancer, how long would you live if you only did surgery? When would the cancer kill you? From what I've heard the difference is only a few years if any. For me, it's the quality of life vs. being sick all the time...feeling old and tired. How long would you live if you did treatment? What are the risk factors for seniors...not those under sixty?
If you are younger perhaps the side effects wouldn't harm your body as much...not sure. I wonder, for those who are seniors, like myself, how much time would it really give us?
And would the treatments cause side effects that could debiliate us? Would we take medcines for the side effects that could worsen our life? I know someone who started out with a few drugs and due to side effects, she took more drugs, and more drugs for those side effects, and more for others...and now she is really messed up.
So many who post here are in their forties and even 50 is young. Again, your bodies are younger, stronger and it is easier for you to tolerate harsh & more toxic drugs. Can you imagine giving it to your mom or grandmother? I'm not sure those who are in their 60"s & up will have the same recovery. I read the story about a mom, who was in her 60's, after 4 chemo infusions died. Before the chemo, she was strong, healthy and had no real heath issues. Plus, she only had an early cancer.
I suppose I've met too many people who didn't make it, or friends family members who suffered horribly. My friends tell me NOT to do chemo. They don't want me to suffer the same way their loved ones suffered. I know a lot of people, and most of my friends encourage me to do alternative. They feel if I do hard drugs it's a death sentence for me. It's not that I'm going to do nothing after surgery. I am. First I want to try the alternative...I want to do it without possible side effects. If it doesn't work, again, I can come back here and reconsider other options. I need to try the less toxic way first.
Thanks for being patient with me as I struggle through this dark spot in my life
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Eve - I think you should wait until you have had the surgery to decide - what if you have positive lymph nodes? Your PET scan should tell you that I guess. I know how hard this decision is for you, but you have to realise how agressive HER2+ve bc is. From what you have said your cancer was at least 2cm, wait until after you get the final pathology, take time then to reflect.
((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))
Sue
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I am 60. Finished chemo a year ago (AC x4) and am on anastrazole (about 14 months so far). Chemo was very tolerable. I worked full time throughout ( left early on infusion days). I have had no lasting effects. I have some stiff fingers since starting the anastrazole, which has remained. I had some trouble sleeping when I started it, but this went away after a few weeks. I also had a BMX, no reconstruction. I feel just fine, even though I am "old." I welcome any extra years that I hopefully gained from the various treatments I received and continue to receive.
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Pessa, glad you did well...ok... let's say 65...as I was just finsihing menopause around 60. I was amazingly young at 60...and even now people mistake me for being much younger than 60. I have to use my licence to prove that I'm a senior. I used to be a risk taker, not so much anymore. If there is a better way, I want to do it. I also read stats where those who were dx with surgery only lived a year less than those who had conventional treatment. Not enough benefits to motivate me to do "standard' treatment.
Susie...thanks. The biopsy took out 2 C ... all cancer...with high proliferation rate and the her 2 +++ factor. The mri still shows cancer in the same area...small area. I wonder if they took out the worse of it??? If they did then I have nothing to worry about. If the pet scan shows more cancer I will want to do what impositive is doing first.. if it doesn't work,.then I will think about something else. If the pet scans shows no cancer, I may not feel inclined to do more than surgery. Not sure right now. I won't know the whole story until after surgery. I also have a good team...an oncologist who thinks she can talk me into more or least tries
. But, my surgeon said, I'm going to do what I want to do...although she did talk me into a blmx. 0
